Fw: COMMENTARY BY NARA NARAYAN VISHWAKARMA DAS

April 14, 2005

Pranams,

I read the below with care and interest. Many things could be said. One thing

appears to be somewhat off though, this:

This means that the GBC are an executive body only. ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTION

OF MANAGEMENT, THEY ARE MORE ADVISORY THAN EXECUTIVE. THEY HAVE STYLED

THEMSELVES IN THE CLOAKS OF "ABSOLUTENESS" MIMICKING VATICAN CARDINALS, RATHER

THAN TO ACCEPT THEIR TRUE GOD GIVEN ROLE AS ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES WHICH WOULD

BE MORE LIKE US SENATORS.

They can only execute the instructions which Srila Prabhupada has already given

NOT MAKE UP THEIR OWN NEW ONES.

----

First thing is: the very first direction of management is that SP held them

ultimately responsible for management of ISKCON. All they should mostly travel,

preach, and make sure the basic principles are being followed in temples,

leaving day to day management to the Temple Presidents, they are to advise the

TP's in such a way that the overall will of Srila Prabhupada is carried out,

including proper handling of finances, land development etc.

I just spend two hours reading through every single statement SP made about the

GBC in his letters. Yes, largely advisory, yet substantially managerial too.

Not only that, but SP establishes the GBC as representative of his will,

specifically as a whole body. Meaning that when push comes to pull, by the

desire of SP, (and Krishna), the GBC's whole will is to be taken as SP's will,

or Krishna's will, as they are the same. For better or worse. As far as

overall, broad strategies. Day to day management is the TP's territory, that's

understood.

SP's will cannot be compromised or bent so as to emasculate the authority of the

GBC, however much their actions have, particularly in the past, been mistaken,

in hindsight. Rather, "make it better and better".

Also, the GBC can certainly add resolutions, in line, or for the purpose of

specifically executing SP's will. That SP himself allowed. SP writes in one

letter, ".....and I shall approve the resolution as long it is not "greviously

against our principles".

This was SP's standard, "as long as the resolution is not greviously against our

principles". He wanted the GBC to use their collective brains to think and make

decisions, and adjustments, plans, as long is was in line with, and supportive

of his basic will. Simply. What is the difficulty?

Suppose the US government suddenly becomes very restrictive to our preaching, so

we should adjust our activities in various ways, possibly with some resolutions,

such as "...the GBC body hereby requests TP's not to openly defy the new

preaching restrictions, and put our Society in danger of legal repercussions".

What is the harm of such a resolution, according to time and circumstance.

Last thing, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, Lord Sri Krishna, has

placed the GBC as the ultimate spiritual and material managerial authority for

ISKCON, through His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. When SP spoke, it was Lord

Krishna speaking. So we must be patient and faithful. Not robots, not

automatons not making inquiry, not challenging, (with Vaisnava etiquette),

anything that might be "greviously against our principles", but not openly

broadcasting statements which diminish peoples faith in the system given by His

Divine Grace.

With all due respect Nara-narayana prabhu, why not hold these discussions in a

more private setting, amongst devotees of like minds, and chalk out a plan to

help the GBC improve? One thing is undebateable, SP did not like factions, he

did not like public stirring up of controversies. That is for sure.

Yours in service,

Dina Sharana Dasa

Mahesh [mahesh (AT) agtsp (DOT) freeserve.co.uk] Thursday, April 14,

2005 11:35 AMvediculture;

vaisnava_synodSubject: [world-vedic] Fw: COMMENTARY BY NARA

NARAYAN VISHWAKARMA DAS

Srila Prabhupada's letters references below are in relation to the meeting in question.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

72-04-04. Letter: Rupanuga I had no intimation that you all GBC members

have met and decided such big big issues without consulting me. So I have

issued one letter in this regard to all of you and you may take note that I

consider that both the meeting and the resolution is irregular and immediately

there should be no change. Again, I am so much burdened by this administrative

work that I feel great difficulty. I was very anxious to return to my Los

Angeles home to sit down for translating work. But if you all, my right-hand

men, are doing things without consulting me and making such big big changes

within our society without getting my opinion and the opinion of all the GBC

members then what can I do? I am so much perplexed why you all had done this. I

have appointed originally 12 GBC members and I have given them 12 zones for

their adminstration and management, but simply by agreement you have changed

everything, so what is this, I don't know. You mentioned that you are taking

great help from Atreya Rsi, but Atreya Rsi is not a member of GBC nor has he

any position in my scheme to manage the whole society. And I am wondering what

is Hamsaduta's idea to leave Germany and take larger position of power in the

United States? I have just sent him one letter wherein I have told him to

remain permanently in Germany and the German language countries. This is his

best field, and I do not think that we shall change any of our managers

throughout the world except as I shall direct. Regarding MacMillan agreement,

whatever is done with MacMillan company is done, so that can remain. The

introduction by Mr. Dimock is nice and it will appeal to the scholarly class.

I am considering to fill up the two GBC posts which are now, vacant, one by the

resignation of Krishna Dasa, and one by Tamala Krishna Goswami taking Sannyas.

I am considering several persons, among them Kesava and Giriraja. I shall let

you know when I have decided on these points. Meanwhile, you many inform the

other GBC members that for the time being there shall be no change within the

society and that they shall manage as before. Hoping this meets you in good

health. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami ACBS.ktdd Who

called for this meeting? ACB

72-04-10. Letter: Satsvarupa Please accept my blessings. I beg to

acknowledge receipt of your letter dated March 17, 1972, and I am very much

pleased to hear from you that everything is going nicely at our Gurukula

school, and also that two travelling SKP parties from Dallas are having such

good success by turning in $3000 to my Book Fund in one month only. That is

such nice service to Krishna, and it is news that makes my heart gladdened.

Actually, I have very great hope for these travelling parties, our Gurukula

school, and all our other projects, that by engaging ourselves in these ways,

so long we do not forget the purpose of such activity then we shall very much

revise the nasty situation in the world as it exists present moment, and we

shall observe that angelic persons like you all nice devotees will be very much

prominent in public life everywhere. That is my hope. But I have been very much

disturbed recently by the meeting which you all have had in New York, wherein

you have passed so many resolutions and elected Atreya Rsi to GBC Secretary,

and made so many other changes. I am very much puzzled by the whole business.

Therefore I have not approved of it, and you may by now have received my letter

why I have temporarily suspended the GBC. Let us not revive this old matter, but

I want to know from you what is your opinion of the matter, and how is it that

Hamsaduta and Atreya Rsi were able to persuade you all senior leaders of the

Society to follow their foolish activities? Kindly inform. From now on, the

temples will operate independently and try to improve their spiritual life more

carefully, so there is no more need for such financial arrangement of

centralization, as you have proposed. Better you concentrate your time on

improving Gurukula school, that is a huge task. You are responsible to train so

many children in the highest knowledge of life, so that cannot be neglected in

any way. You are also doing editing work, so I think that in these two ways you

can remain yourself always busy in devotional service, without more work of

management of many other temples required. So far your statement, "Our final

success will be when you actually sit tight and translate books and let us

manage successfully," yes, that is my desire, but if you can do it or not, that

has again disturbed me very much. Now I have given you everything, but I do not

see that even the basic principles of advancement in spiritual life are always

there, and sometimes there is tendency to neglect what is our real purpose of

life, namely, to become mad after Krishna, and instead we become carried away

by big big talk. So I am still thinking how things will go on.

72-04-11. Letter: Hamsaduta Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge

receipt of your letter dated April 7th, 1972, and I have noted the contents.

The meeting of the GBC appeared to be very unconstitutional, because all the

men were not informed or invited. Syamasundara. was not invited, Sudama was not

invited, Krishna das was not invited, Tamala Krishna was not invited, neither I

was informed. Why? You cannot hold meeting of 8 persons without inviting the

others. Seven may be a quorum, that's all right, but you cannot convene without

a general announcement to all the members and myself, giving a proposed agenda,

like that, the topics to be discussed, why the meeting is being called, etc.

Then there is correspondence for deciding these things, and if there is great

necessity, then meeting may be called, but not whimsically, only after much

thought is given and there is clear intimation of all the members plus myself.

Anything whatever is done is done, but the whole thing appeared to be giving

all power to Atreya Rsi. I cannot understand why, instead of one GBC man, a

person outside the Commission was given so much power, and there was to be

immediate action without divulging the matter to the devotees. And I am

surprised that none of the GBC members detected the defects in the procedure.

It was detected only when it came to me. What will happen when I am not here,

shall everything be spoiled by GBC? So for the time being, let the GBC

activities be suspended until I thoroughly revise the whole procedure. In the

meantime, you do your duty as president of Hamburg Temple, and try to improve

spiritually. Our spiritual way should strictly observe the following points

especially: (1). Neatness and cleanliness of all personal bodies. (I still see

those who are initiated as Brahmins, they do not wash their hand after eating

even; of course, there may be so many defects due to your births in non-Brahmin

families, but how long it shall go on? It is very easy thing.); (2). Chanting 16

rounds daily. (I don't think everyone is following these principles.); (3)

Temple worship, which should be performed rigidly between four and ten a.m.)

I find that the devotees are still sleeping up to six, seven o'clock. So in the

GBC Agenda I do not find any such programs for reforming our past bad habits. So

kindly as President of Hamburg center you try to observe yourself all the

regulative principles and see all the members are following. Recently I have

received from one Sannyasi complaint about another Sannyasi who is not chanting

regularly. So our view is that we shall be strictly following the rules and

regulations. Monetary matters are secondary. On principle, we should better

starve than neglect our rules and regulations. We are trying to present an

ideal Society to the world, so although we are very rigidly following these

principles, still, we are very liberal to everyone. For this reason we are

being appreciated everywhere. So anyway, I am not at all dissatisfied with you,

but it is my duty to point out the mistakes. You are in charge of the Germany

organization. Please do it nicely there, not very much on the material side,

more on the spiritual side. Example is better than precept. Every one of you

must be the perfect examples, then everyone will follow.

72-12-22. Letter: Karandhara Regarding your points about taxation,

corporate status, etc., I have heard from Jayatirtha you want to make big plan

for centralization of management, taxes, monies, corporate status, bookkeeping,

credit, like that. I do not at all approve of such plan. Do not centralize

anything. Each temple must remain independent and self-sufficient. That was my

plan from the very beginning, why you are thinking otherwise? Once before you

wanted to do something centralizing with your GBC meeting, and if I did not

interfere the whole thing would have been killed. Do not think in this way of

big corporation, big credits, centralization--these are all nonsense proposals.

Only thing I wanted was that books printing and distribution should be

centralized, therefore I appointed you and Bali Mardan to do it. Otherwise,

management, everything, should be done locally by local men. Accounts must be

kept, things must be in order and lawfully done, but that should be each

temple's concern, not yours. Krishna Consciousness Movement is for training men

to be independently thoughtful and competent in all types of departments of

knowledge and action, not for making bureaucracy. Once there is bureaucracy the

whole thing will be spoiled. There must be always individual striving and work

and responsibility, competitive spirit, not that one shall dominate and

distribute benefits to the others and they do nothing but beg from you and you

provide. No. Never mind there may be botheration to register each centre, take

tax certificate each, become separate corporations in each state. That will

train men how to do these things, and they shall develop reliability and

responsibility, that is the point. I am little observing now, especially in

your country, that our men are losing their enthusiasm for spreading on our

programmes of Krishna Consciousness movement. Otherwise, why so many letters of

problems are coming, dissatisfied? That is not a very good sign. The whole

problem is they are not following the regulative principles, that I can detect.

Without this, enthusiasm will be lacking. Even mechanically following, and if he

gets gradually understanding from the class, he will come to the point of

spontaneous enthusiasm. This spontaneous loving devotional service is not so

easy matter, but if one simply sticks strictly to the rules and regulations,

like rising early, chanting 16 rounds, chanting gayatri, keeping always

clean--then his enthusiasm will grow more and more, and if there is also

patience and determination, one day he will come to the platform of spontaneous

devotion, then his life will be perfect. All of this I have told you in Nectar

of Devotion. So I do not think the leaders are themselves following, nor they

are seeing the others are following strictly. That must be rectified at once.

Each centre remain independent, that's all right, but the president and other

officers must themselves follow and see the others are following the regulative

principles carefully, and giving them good instruction so they may understand

nicely why this tapasya is necessary. And GBC and Sannyasis will travel and see

the officers are doing this, and if they observe anything lowering of the

standard, they must reform and advise, or if there is some discrepancy I shall

remove it. Of course, if new men are coming, they may not be expected

immediately to take to our regulative principles cent per cent. Therefore we

should not be so anxious to induce them to live in the temple. Anyone who lives

in the temple must agree to follow the rules and regulations without fail. So if

some new man moves in with us he may become discouraged if he is forced in this

way. Therefore let them live outside and become gradually convinced in the

class why they should accept some austerity, then they will live with us out of

their own accord and follow nicely everything. It is very difficult to give up

very quickly so many bad habits as you have got in your country, so educate

them gradually, first with chanting, and do not be so much anxious to count up

so many numbers of new devotees, if such devotees go away later being too early

forced. I want to see a few sincere devotees, not many false devotees or

pretenders. So my point is that the regulative principles must be followed by

everyone. Otherwise their enthusiasm dwindles and they again think of sex and

become restless, and so many problems are there. There is some symptom of

missing the point. The point is to be engaged in doing something for Krishna,

never mind what is that job, but being so engaged in doing something very much

satisfying to the devotee that he remains always enthusiastic. He will

automatically follow the regulative principles because they are part of his

occupational duty--by applying them practically as his occupational duty, he

realises the happy result of regulative principles. So the future of this

Krishna Consciousness movement is very bright, so long the managers remain

vigilant that 16 rounds are being chanted by everyone without fail, that they

are all rising before four morning, attending mangal arati--our leaders shall

be careful not to kill the spirit of enthusiastic service, which is individual

and spontaneous and voluntary. They should try always to generate some

atmosphere of fresh challenge to the devotees, so that they will agree

enthusiastically to rise and meet it. That is the art of management: to draw

out spontaneous loving spirit of sacrificing some energy for Krishna. But where

are so many expert managers? All of us should become expert managers and

preachers. We should not be very much after comforts and become complacent or

self-contented. There must be always some tapasya, strictly observing the

regulative principles--Krishna Consciousness movement must be always a

challenge, a great achievement to be gained by voluntary desire to do it, and

that will keep it healthy. So you big managers now try to train up more and

more some competent preachers and managers like yourselves. Forget this

centralizing and bureaucracy. Hoping this meets you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

ACBS:sda

-

Nathan Zakheim

lakshmi (AT) webtv (DOT) net

Cc: Bhakti Vikasa Swami ; Mahavegavati Dasi ACBSP ; vmoreland108 ;

govinda ; wzodda ; Mark ; radhapran (AT) hotmail (DOT) com ; Narottam Zakheim ;

gsibbald (AT) webtv (DOT) net ; vibhuvyas ; Madhudvisa dasa ; nevans (AT) hawaii (DOT) edu

; Raghu Anudasa' ; Rita S ; japa-mala (AT) msn (DOT) com ; tim lee ; Nimai Pandit Das ;

Rocana dasa ; mpandit (AT) giasbg01 (DOT) vsnl.net.in ; Gauridas (AT) aol (DOT) com ; Pratyatosa Dasa

; Abhaya Mudra ; hans jurgen kary ; royrichard49 ;

visvadas (AT) hotmail (DOT) com ; fmorales (AT) dharmacentral (DOT) com ; prabhupada (AT) onetel (DOT) net.uk ;

pragosh (AT) videotron (DOT) ca ; Mahesh prabhu ; Madhavananda das ; bhagwatam (AT) hotmail (DOT) com

; Linda Voith ; Terrys108 (AT) msn (DOT) com ; ramrajya (AT) aol (DOT) com

Thursday, April 14, 2005 2:28 AM

*** SPAM *** COMMENTARY BY NARA NARAYAN VISHWAKARMA DAS

THERE ARE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF MISTAKES AND MISCONCEPTIONS IN THE CONCLUSIONS

STATED BELOW. I WILL TRY TO CORRECT THEM.NNV DASOn Apr 13, 2005, at 1:38 PM,

lakshmi (AT) webtv (DOT) net wrote:

http://community.webtv.net/lakshmi/TheLakshmiSampradaya

color>fontfamily>"july9th_77" <july9th (AT) jboxford (DOT) com>color>April 13, 2005

10:31:40 AM PDTcolor>VaisnavacouncilSubject:

color>[Vaisnavacouncil] Re: perspective

color>Vaisnavacouncilfontfamily>Mahaksa prabhu asks - "As far

as affixing Srila Prabhupada's name to all these rules, are you sure He was

even informed of these ideas?" In reply to a previous post where it was stated

-THERE IS AN INSTANCE IN 1973 WHERE AN INTERNATIONAL MEETING WAS HELD BY THE

GBC, WITH MEMBERS FLOWN IN FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD. AT THAT MEETING ATREYA

RISHI PRABHU RE-ORGANIZED ISKCON AS A CENTRALIZED CORPORATE ENTITY. THE PURPOSE

OF THE MEETING WAS TO ELIMINATE THE DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT THAT SRILA

PRABHUPADA HAD ORDERED IN 1970 WHEN HE CREATED THE GBC. THE DIRECTION OF

MANAGEMENT CALLED FOR AN ENTIRELY DE-CENTRALIZED MANAGEMENT SYSTEM WITH GBC'S

ELECTED EVERY THREE YEARS FROM THE BODY OF TEMPLE PRESIDENTS. IN OTHER WORDS,

THE TEMPLE PRESIDENTS WOUJLD DECIDE WHO WAS GBC BY VOTE, AND WOULD RETAIN

COMPLETE CONTROL OF THE MOVEMENT. SRILA PRABHUPADA WAS NOT INVITED TO THIS

MEETING, NOR DID HE LEARN ABOUT IT UNTIL ALL THE RENEGADE GBC'S HAD RETURNED TO

THEIR ZONES. HE WAS FURIOUS, AND DISBANDED THE GBC, AND ACCUSED THEM OF "GODLESS

PLANMAKING".ONE CAN CHECK THE VEDABASE FOR LETTERS, AND ROOM CONVERSATION ON

THIS SUBJECT FROM 1970 TO 1976.

"In 1975 one of the preliminary GBC resolutions sanctioned thatthe 'GBC would

have sole responsibility for managerial affairs'.Below are some of the

'managerial' issues the GBC dealt with thatyear:"In order to receive first

initiation, one must have been a fulltime member for six months. For second

initiation there should be atleast another one year after the first

initiation." (Resolution No.9, March 25th, 1975)"Method of initiating

Sannyasis." (Resolution No. 2, March 27th,1975)THESE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN

AUTHORIZED BY SRILA PRABHUPADA. IN EFFECT, HOWEVER, THE SYSTEM DESCRIBED HAD

BEEN IN EFFECT SINCE 1968 WITH THE APPROVAL OF SRILA PRABHUPADA. THERE MAY BE

NO WAY TO KNOW IF HE PERSONALLY REQUESTED THAT RESOLUTION WHICH REFLECTED

COMMON PRACTICE AT THAT TIME.

These resolutions were personally approved by Srila Prabhupada. Thusthey

demonstrate conclusively that the methodology for conductinginitiations was

deemed a system of management."THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN INITIATIONS AND

A SYSTEM OF MANAGEMENT.

I am absolutely sure that that Srila Prabhupada was informed of these GBC

resolutions. You can be sure of this fact also for the following reasons...1)

Srila Prabhupada was a liberated soul as such he was NOT subject to the

previously mentioned "4 defects".THE FACT THAT SRILA PRABHUPADA IS CERTAINLY

FREE OF THE FOUR MATERIAL DEFECTS DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE WAS ABLE TO PREDOMINATE

OVER HIS RENEGADE GBC'S WHO CERTAINLY WERE NOT FREE OF THE FOUR MATERIAL

DEFECTS. EVEN KRISHNA HIMSELF DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH THE OFTEN DISASTEROUSLY

MISTAKEN FREE WILL OF THE FALLEN CONDITIONED SOULS, AND WE MUST REMEMBER THAT

THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE BONA FIDE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ABSOLUTE ONLY WHEN THE

DISCIPLE DISPLAYS SUFFICIENT OBEDIENCE AND WILLINGNESS TO FOLLOW THE ORDER OF

THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. ACCESS TO THE BONA FIDE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS BASED ON THE

VOLUNTARY SURRENDER OF THE DISCIPLE TO THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. IF THE DISCIPLE

FIRST SURRENDERS, AND THEN WITHDRAWS HIS SURRENDER TO SOME DEGREE, THE BOND

WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS WEAKENED. IF THERE IS DISOBEDIENCE OF THE DIRECT

ORDER OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER BY THE DISCIPLE, THERE IS NOT MUCH THE SPIRITUAL

MASTER CAN DO ABOUT IT. HE IS THE ACHARYA, NOT DICTATOR. HE SETS THE EXAMPLE TO

BE FOLLOWED, AND DOES NOT NECESSARILY POLICE HIS DISCIPLES IF THEY REFUSE HIS

GUIDANCE AND ORDERS.SOMETIMES HE WOULD COME DOWN LIKE THE HAMMER OF VULCAN, BUT

MOST OFTEN HE WOULD LET THINGS GO, AS HE CHOSE HIS BATTLEFIELDS VERY CAREFULLY.

2) His GBC disciples were neophites and as a body subject to the afore mentioned

4 defects.OVERCOMING THE EFFECTS OF THE FOUR MATERIAL DEFECTS IS ACCOMPLISHED BY

SURRENDER TO THE ORDER OF THE SPIRUAL MASTER. SUCH SURRENDER COMPENSATES FOR

MISTAKES MADE ON THE RIGHT PATH. DELIBERATE DISOBEDIENCE IS NOT PROTECTED UNDER

SUCH ARRANGEMENT, AND THE OFFENDER ENTERS THE REALM OF THE "KILLER OF THE SOUL".

FOUR MATERIAL DEFECTS ON THE PART OF A DISCIPLE DO NOT EXCUSE GROSS DISOBEDIENCE

OR CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE TEACHING AND ORDER OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER.

Thus the GBC were only ever authorised to carry out the orders exactly as they

had been given by the liberated soul - Srila Prabhupada: JOINING THE MOVEMENT

IN 1968 AND TRAVELING WIDELY WITH SRILA PRABHUPADA FROM THAT TIME ONWARD

REVEALED TO ME THAT ON EVERY LEVEL, WHETHER BEFORE THE FORMATION OF THE GBC OR

AFTERWARD, THERE WAS "DEAL MAKING" GOING ON CONSTANTLY AS TO HOW TO AVOID

CERTAIN ORDERS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, AND GROUPS WOULD TRADE "DISOBEDIENCES"

WITH EACH OTHER, JUST AS POLITICIANS GIVE "TRADE OFFS" TO OTHER POLITICIANS SO

THAT THEIR AGENDA CAN GO FORWARD WITH NO OPPOSITION.

"Resolved:The GBC (Governing Body Commission) has been established by His Divine

Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to represent Him in carrying out the

responsibility of managing the International Society for Krishna Consciousness

of which He is the Founder Acarya and supreme authority. The GBC accepts as its

life and soul His divine instructions and recognises that it is completely

dependent on His mercy in all respects.The GBC has no other function or purpose

other than to execute the instructions so kindly given by His Divine Grace and

preserve and spread His Teachings to the world in their pure form."(Definition

of GBC, Resolution 1, GBC minutes 1975 as personally approved by Srila

Prabhupada)THIS RESOLUTION, ALTHOUGH GORGEOUS IN LANGUAGE FOLLOWED ON THE HEELS

OF ANOTHER SIGNED AND WITNESSED RESOLUTION STATING THAT THE DIRECTION OF

MANAGEMENT (OF 1970) WAS TO BE INCLUDED IN THE NON PROFIT CORPORATE CHARTER OF

EACH AND EVERY ISKCON CENTER. AS FAR AS I AM AWARE, ONLY ONE ISKCON NON PROFIT

CORPORATE CHARTER ADOPTED THE DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT.SO, WHILE MAKING SUCH

GRAND STATEMENTS OF FOLLOWING SRILA PRABHUPADA'S ORDERS, THE GBC HAD

DELIBERATELY REFUSED TO AMEND THE NON PROFIT CORPORATE CHARTERS WITH THE

DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT AS DIRECTLY ORDERED BY SRILA PRABHUPADA. OBVIOUSLY,

THEY PREFERRED TO STATE THAT THEY WERE SRILA PRABHUPADA'S DIRECT

REPRESENTATIVES WHILE UNANIMOUSLY REJECTING WHAT COULD PROBABLY BE UNDERSTOOD

TO BE SRILA PRABHUPADA'S MOST IMPORTANT DIRECT ORDER CONCERNING MANAGEMENT.

This means that the GBC are an executive body only. ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTION

OF MANAGEMENT, THEY ARE MORE ADVISORY THAN EXECUTIVE. THEY HAVE STYLED

THEMSELVES IN THE CLOAKS OF "ABSOLUTENESS" MIMICKING VATICAN CARDINALS, RATHER

THAN TO ACCEPT THEIR TRUE GOD GIVEN ROLE AS ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES WHICH WOULD

BE MORE LIKE US SENATORS.

They can only execute the instructions which Srila Prabhupada has already given

NOT MAKE UP THEIR OWN NEW ONES. TO QUOTE THE STATEMENT CONCERNING "MY ABSOLUTE

AUTHORITY AS GBC" OF THE LATE TAMAL KRISHNA GOSWAMI, IN 1976, (TO WHICH SRILA

PRABHUPADA REPLIED, "WHAT.....ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY?) THE GBC COULD DO AND SAY AND

"DAMNED THING" THAT THEY WISHED.............AND DID, FOR SEVEN LONG YEARS, AND

THEN TWENTY FIVE YEARS FOLLOWING.

Hence, according to the above definition, any body which does not act under the

parameters above has forfeited its right to call itself the GBC, and is in fact

no longer the GBC. UNLESS THE GBC HAS BEEN DULY ELECTED UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF

THE ISKCON "CONSTITUTION" GIFTED TO US BY SRILA PRABHUPADA IN 1`970, THE GBC

HAS NO MORE BASIS TO BE CALLED GBC THAN THE MILITARY DICTATOR OF PAKISTAN HAS

THE RIGHT TO BE CALLED "PRESIDENT". THE SO-CALLED GBC ARE FULLY AWARE OF THE

DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT, AND THE FACT THAT YOU, THE READER, ARE PROBABLY NOT

AWARE OF IT IS TESTIMONY TO THEEFFECTIVENESS OF THEIR "SINISTER PLOT" TO KEEP

THIS VITAL DIRECT ORDER BY SRILA PRABHUPADA SECRET FROM YOU.

Just as if the Police force suddenly began arresting innocent citizens and

protecting the criminals, they would no longer be the Police since they would

be acting in opposition to their very definition.THIS IS EXACTLY THE PRESENT

SITUATION.

3) For Srila Prabhupada to be unaware of this situation (as in 1 & 2)is

unthinkable.HE WAS VERY AWARE OF THE SITUATION, AND WROTE ABOUT IT AND SPOKE

ABOUT IT ENDLESSLY. UNFORTUNATELY, THE RANK AND FILE MEMBERS OF ISKCON WERE SO

ENAMORED OF THOSE WHO HAD BEEN CHOSE TO BE GBC, THAT EVEN SRILA PRABHUPADA'S

DIRECT ATTACKS ON THESE INDIVIDUALS DID LITTLE OR NOTHING TO SHAKE THE FAITH OF

THE RANK AND FILE DEVOTEES IN THESE CONSPIRATORS. IF WE HAD READ HIS BOOKS AND

HELD ISTAGOSTHIS, WE WOULD HAVE SUPPRESSED THEM OR KICKED THEM OUT.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE WERE SO BUSY "DOING SERVICE" UNDER THE DIRECTION OF THOSE WE

WERE MEANT TO MONITOR AND WATCH, THAT WE COULD FIND NOT FAULT WITH THEM, AND

WEIRDLY ENOUGH, IN A CHOICE BETWEEN WHAT THEY SAID AND WHAT SRILA PRABHUPADA

SAID, WE WENT WITH WHAT THEY SAID.

4) Thus we can conclude that for Srila Prabhupada to be physically present in

Mayapur and for him NOT to check the resolutions of his neophite disciples, is

also unthinkable.SOMETIMES YES AND SOMETIMES NO. IF A ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE HAVE

A HIDDEN AGENDA, HOW WOULD SRILA PRABHUPADA GET THE BEST INFO?

Besides these 4 simple points derived from logical conclusion. We also have the

following evidences from the GBC resolutions themselves."Srila Prabhupada will

be held for reading the day's resolutions for approval by His Divine Grace."

[1975]WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Sometimes if Srila Prabhupada did not approve of a resolution he would send it

back to the GBC for amendment. As confirmed in the following resolution."1.

Since several resolutions under "ISKCON Organization" passed at the March 9, 9

a.m meeting, caused a great disturbance among the temple presidents and thus

with our spiritual master, the GBC acknowledges that they were mistaken

proposals and hereby rejects them. This was ordered by Srila Prabhupada, and

refers specifically to resolutions 1, 2, 3, and 10. [1976]"SOMETIMES, SRILA

PRABHUPADA WOULD INTERFERE WITH THE GBC'D ENDLESS RULES AND LAWMAKINGS. MORE

OFTEN, HE DID NOT.THE BIG POINT IS THAT THESE GBC WERE TALKERS NOT LISTENERS.

THEY DID NOT SEEK GUIDANCE FROM SRILA PRABHUAPADA AT THAT HISTORIC POINT IN

TIME. THEY MADE STATEMENTS AND ASKED FOR HIS APPROVAL. THEY WERE FAR MORE

INTERESTED IN FURTHERING THEIR OWN PERCEIVED AGENDAS THAN THEY WERE "HEARING

THE WORDS EMANATING FROM HIS LOTUS MOUTH". IN BERKELEY, 1975, I WAS ON A

MORNING WALK WITH SRILA PRABHUPADA WHERE HE WALKED ALONG, NO LONGER GRAND AND

KINGLY BUT LIKE A TURTLE WITH HIS NECK WITHDRAWN AS GBC' S AND OTHERS WERE

WAVING SHEETS OF PAPER AT HIM AND SCREAMING FOR HIS APPROVAL ON POINTS THAT HAD

NOT EVEN BEEN PRESENTED TO HIM IN A SUBMISSIVE MOOD OF DISCIPLESHIP. IT LOOKED

MORE LIKE THE TRADING FLOOR OF THE STOCK EXCHANGE THAN THE SACRED SURRENDER OF

THE DISCIPLE TO THE LOTUS FEET OF HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER.

The following resolution was made so that not only Srila Prabhupada but EVERYONE

could be aware of the annual GBC resolutions which are made."4. Resolved:

Whatever resolutions are passed by the GBC each day will be brought before

Srila Prabhupad for approval. They will then be posted on a bulletin board.NOTE

THE ABSENCE OF QUESTIONING SRILA PRABHUPADA ON THE ISSUES TO BE PASSED. AT THAT

POINT, THEY WANTED HIS APPROVAL NOT HIS REALIZED KNOWLEDGEABLE POINT OF VIEW.

After the agenda has been completed Temple President's meeting will be held. If

by a 23 majority the Presidents vote any suggested amendments to the

resolutions or make new resolutions, these will be referred back to the GBC who

will meet to vote on them and that decision will be final. Srila Prabhupada will

then review this decisions for ultimate decision and/or approval. [1977]"SINCE

BY THE TERMS OF THE DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT, THE GBC IS FULLY ANSWERABLE TO THE

TEMPLE PRESIDENTS, THIS RESOLUTION IS OF THE ORDER OF "THROWING THE TEMPLE

PRESIDENTS A BONE".

Furthermore, Srila Prabhupada would often SIGN approval to GBC resolutions which

he had not personally drafted. (though if there was something he did not like,

he would have the GBC change it).SOMETIMES YES, AND SOMETIMES NO.

As mentioned in the previous post Srila Prabhupada's Last Will and Testament,

states the following:"The system of management will continue as it is now and

there is no need of any change."(Srila Prabhupada's Declaration of Will, 4th

June, 1977)WELL, HE CREATED THE DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT IN 1970, BY WHICH THE

GBC WAS CREATED IN THE FIRST PLACE, THEN IN 1974 HE ORDERED THAT THE DIRECTION

OF MANAGEMENT BE INCLUDED IN EVERY ISKCON CORPORATE CHARTER, THEN IN 1977, HE

SAID THAT "THE SYSTEM OF MANAGEMENT WILL CONTINUE AS IT IS NOW," WE CAN

CONCLUDE THAT IT IS HIGH TIME THAT WE BEGIN TO OBEY THE "SYSTEM OF MANAGEMENT"

THAT HE ORDERED WITH LEGAL FORM WITNESSED DOCUMENTS FOR SEVEN YEARS PRIOR TO

HIS WILL. HE PUT THE SYSTEM IN PLACE, BUT HIS DISCIPLES HEADED BY ROGUE GBC'S

REFUSED TO HONOR HIS SYSTEM OF MANAGEMENT.OF COURSE, IT IS NOT TOO LATE,

........WE CAN BEGIN TODAY!

Tamal Krsna Goswami in the 'Topanga Canyon Confession' in 1980, stated that

Srila Prabhupada set up the ritvik system in order to 'manage this movement',

since he could not 'physically manage everyone' himself'. THE RITTVIK ORDER OF

SRILA PRABHUPADA HAD NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH MANAGEMENT, ALTHOUGH TAMAL

KRISHNA GOSWAMI WOULD ALWAYS BE HAPPY TO THINK SO. THE RITTVIK ORDER OF SRILA

PRABHUPADA CONCERNED THE CONTINUATION OF INITIATIONS, NOT GBC MANAGEMENT OR

TEMPLE MANAGEMENT.

The ritvik system was Srila Prabhupada's chosen way of managing initiations

within ISKCON. INITIATIONS ARE NOT A FUNCTION OF MANAGEMENT, NOR ARE THEY

MANAGED. MANAGEMENT OF THE MOVEMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SACRED

CONNECTION OF THE DISCIPLE TO THE BONAFIDE SPIRUAL MASTER THROUGH THE "AGNI

HOTRA YAJNA".

And as stated above the GBC can only act within the parameters of the definition

Srila Prabhupada gave them. THEY HAVE NOT YET DONE SO, NOR WILL THEY EVER AGREE

TO DO SO. ONLY THE CONGREGATIONS CAN DEMAND THE TEMPLE PRESIDENTS TO ELECT BONA

FIDE GBC MEMBERS AND THEN THE FALSE PERPETUAL GBC MEMBERS WILL LOSE THEIR

AUTHORITY AND WILL HAVE TO STEP DOWN.

Hence as the ultimate 'managing' authority, the GBC were expected to continue

managing initiations in ISKCON in the manner which Srila Prabhupada had already

ordered which was the Ritvik system as set out in the July 9th directive sent to

all GBCs and Temple Presidents.NO GBC TO DATE HAS EVER BEEN ELECTED. THIS IS A

MANAGEMENT BREAKDOWN OF ABSOLUTE PROPORTIONS. ONCE AGAIN, INITIATIONS ARE

UNRELATED TO MANAGEMENT.

The GBC had no right to terminate that system, and then concoct their own. THE

GBC HA DNO RIGHT TO DO ANYTHING AT ALL UNTIL THE GBC WERE OBEDIENT TO THE TERMS

OF THEIR VERY FOUNDING CHARTER, THE DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT. TO GIVE AN IDEA OF

THE SPIRITUAL BANKRUPTSY INVOLVED IN THE CURRENT ATTEMPTS OF THE GBC TO DEFINE

ITS CHARTER DOCUMENTS, THE GBC HAS ENTERED INTO LEGAL EVIDENCE, INTO CURRENT

COURT PROCEDINGS THAT THEIR AUTHORITY IS DERIVED FROM THE DIRECTION OF

MANAGEMENT, ALTHOUGH THIS VERY DOCUMENT WAS SAVAGELY REJECTED A FEW YEARS AGO

IN MAYAPUR BY A COALITION OF JAYAPATAKA SWAMI AND TAMAL KRISHNA GOSWAMI AND

OTHERS WHO REJECTED THE DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT OUT OF HAND.BASICALLY, THE GBC

HAS NO OTHER AUTHORITY FOR ITS EXISTENCE OTHER THAN A DOCUMENT THAT IT OPENLY

REJECTS, BUT IS NONETHELESS WILLING TO ENTER AS EVIDENCE OF ITS AUTHORITY INTO

PRESENT DAY COURT CASES!

As Srila Prabhupada warned:"The standards I have already given you, now try to

maintain them at all times under standard procedure. Do not try to innovate or

create anything or manufacture anything, that will ruin everything."(SP Letter

to Bali Mardan and Pusta Krsna, 18/9/72)WELL, SRILA PRABHUPADA SAID THAT THE

"NECTAR OF DEVOTION" IS OUR LAWBOOK......JUST SEE HOW MANY PAGES OF THE

HERETICAL "ISKCON LAW" HAVE BEEN CREATED AND WEEP!THE HEAP OF ISKCON LAW COULD

BURY THE NECTAR OF DEVOTION MANY TIMES OVER.......AND HAS!YOUR ETERNAL

SERVANT,NARA NARAYAN VISWAKARMA DASBELOW IS THE DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT: THE

CONSTITUTION OF ISKCON:

------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Would

you Help a Child in need?It is easier than you think.Click Here to meet a Child

you can

help.http://us.click./0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/ESdplB/TM--~->

DISCLAIMER- Any third party postings, files or other communications do not

necessarily represent the opinions, beliefs, or positions of the Vaisnava

Council owner and moderator, myself, Visoka dasa. I do my best to moderate,

however I do not always have the time to read every paragraph of every post, or

files, and I assume no responsibility for any outrageous philosophical claims I

may have missed or not missed in these materials. Further, I cannot always

edit, control, review for truth or accuracy, or screen for defamation in all

posts. Its not my job to answer and defeat all philosophical points in every

post, nor do I have the time. I humbly request everyone to be responsible for

the content of their posts, and honor the rules of this forum, and please

report any misconduct to me. Hare Krishna, your servant, Visoka dasa.Remember

to always use Vaisnava etiquette. This is a Prabhuapda group. Please engage in

civil discussion devoid of hurting others feelings. If you haven't read these,

kindly do so now:Our prospectus

page-Vaisnavacouncil/message/3649List of

violations-Vaisnavacouncil/message/4014Most

important! Please read the AXIOMS on this

site:http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/vasinava_council_archives.htm and "the

one and only question" -

http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/One_question.htmand "the final

conclusions" - http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/conclusions.htmHare

Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Links<*> To visit your

group on the web, go to:Vaisnavacouncil/<*> To

from this group, send an email

to:Vaisnavacouncil<*> Your use of is

subject to:This is an information resource and

discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture,

with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also

topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are

welcome.Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is the

natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the environment.Om

Shantih, Harih Om

April 15, 2005

Dina Sharana Dasa Prabhu wrote:

"With all due respect Nara-narayana prabhu, why not hold these discussions in a

more private setting, amongst devotees of like minds, and chalk out a plan to

help the GBC improve? One thing is undebateable, SP did not like factions, he

did not like public stirring up of controversies. That is for sure. "

Prabhu-- Nara-narayana Prabhu knows what he is doing. Please read below.

76-09-22. Letter: Ayodhyapati Please accept my blessings. I am in due

receipt of your undated letter and I thank you for it. Your siddhanta is

correct to the sastra and in this way go on reading books and have the correct

perception and Krsna will help you. siddhanta baliya citte na kara alasa iha

haite krsna lage sudrdha manasa. A sincere student should not neglect the

discussion of such conclusions, considering them controversial, for such

discussions srengthen the mind. Thus one's mind becomes attached to Sri Krsna.

You should be always alert in understanding the sastric conclusions that will

help you, otherwise we can be misled by bogus philosophies. I am very pleased

that you are studying the books. This will make you happy and successful.

Bg 10.4-5 P The Opulence of the Absolute Satyam, truthfulness, means

that facts should be presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts

should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that

one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not

truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that

others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if

people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the

truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness

demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That

is the definition of truth.

April 15, 2005

Those quotes do nothing to support publicy airing opinions, rather negative

opinions about Srila Prabhupada's managers, rather they support what I said,

discuss what needs to be discussed to improve SP's mission. They don't negate

what I pointed out, SP did not want public stirring up of controversy, which NN

prabhu is doing.

Your credibility may be ruined if you keep supporting actions with such

dubious quoting.....Patience my brothers, patience....

vediculture [vediculture] On Behalf

Of MaheshFriday, April 15, 2005 11:17 AMNara Narayana Visvakarma;

vedicultureSubject: Re: [world-vedic] Fw: COMMENTARY BY NARA