Reincarnation in the Bible

March 4, 2005

Hare Krsna!

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Pamho

Dharmapad Prabhu wrote:

"Can anyone pass some Bible verses on to me that suggest

reincarnation?"================================

If it helps.....I came across this---somewhere long time ago-- someone mentioned

to me Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura gave this type reply about the

**born blind ** quote regards reincarnation in Bible-- but I do not know if

this is true or not. Read the following:

Jesus was walking with his disciples.

In John 9:1-2

As he went, he saw a blind man from birth. His disciples asked him "Rabbi, who

sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

Note: the disciples are VERY specific as to the sin indicating committed in PREVIOUS life):

1) this man OR

2) his parents

which RESULTED of him being BORN blind.

It appears at that time they UNDERSTOOD that Karma (sinful acts performed in

PREVIOUS life) which RESULTED they put down to TWO SPECIFIC causes 1) this man

OR

2) his parents

So, although in THIS PARTICULAR case Jesus replies,"neither this man or his

parents but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his

life"

BUT----- nevertheless no one can rule out the GENERAL ACCEPTED UNDERSTANDING

among the disciples that it WAS 1) this man OR

2) his parents

OTHERWISE, --***WHY?***---- did they bother to ask SO SPECIFICALLY 1) this man OR

2) his parents

Unless, THEY ALSO understood it MUST be-- ONE or the OTHER to have been the

CAUSE of sinning(reaction of Karma) PRIOR to his being--- blind from birth.

Hare Krishna!

ys mahesh

March 7, 2005

HARE KRISHNA !

SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA !

DEAR VAISHNAVAS,

PAMHO.

HOW UNFORTUNATE THAT AFTER OVER 30 YEARS, NOT A SINGLE VAISHNAVA HAS

TAKEN MY ADVISE SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY JUST LOOK UP THE ACTUAL

SANSKRIT-GREEK COGNATES IN THE SEPTUAGINT, APOCRYPHA AND NEW

TESTAMENT . INSTEAD YOU ALL JUST GO ON SPECULATING, AND IGNORING THE

AUTHENTIC JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS.

PLEASE, AGAIN, I BEG YOU TO ACTUALLY CONSULT THESE GREEK JEWISH AND

NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES, WHERE AMONG COUNTLESS OTHER PROFOUNDLY

IMPORTANT JEWISH AND CATHOLIC CONNECTIONS TO VAISHNAVISM, YOU WILL

FIND "KRIMA" AND RELATED WORDS FOR GOD'S JUDGMENT, EITHER FAVORABLE

OR UNFAVORABLE, USED OVER 200 TIMES. (SEE KRIMA [KARMA], KRINO

[KARMA], KATAKRIMA, KATAKRISIS, KRISIS [CRISIS, TRIAL TEST],

KRITERION [CRITERIA ALSO], KRITES AND KRITIKOS [CRITIC, CRITICAL,

JUDGING, JUDGMENTAL]

IN MANY OF THESE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT GREEK 'OLD TESTAMENT', APOCRYPHA

AND NEW TESTAMENT VERSES, THE WORD "KARMA" COULD BE EXCHANGED

FOR "KRIMA" / "KRINO" ETC. WITH NO CHANGE IN THE VERSE'S TRADITIONAL

JEWISH OR CATHOLIC MEANING AT ALL.

HOWEVER, THE CALVINIST AND RELATED PROTESTANT MISREADINGS OF THE

NEUTRAL JUDGMENT WORD "KRIMA", ALWAYS IN THE EXTREME NEGATIVE

AS "DAMNATION", IS WHY THE PROTESTANT BIBLES ARE SO HEAVY

ON "DAMNATION" AND 'HELLFIRE'.

KRIMA [KARMA] AS GOD'S PERFECT "JUDGMENT" IS SUBJECTIVELY EXPERIENCED

AS EITHER 'GOOD' OR 'BAD'. A 'CRIMINAL' IS ONE UPON WHOM A 'NEGATIVE'

JUDGMENT HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED. HOWEVER, THE JEWISH AND CATHOLIC

TRADITIONS MAKE IT CLEAR THAT GOD'S JUDGMENT IS ALWAYS BOTH JUST AND

MERCIFUL. FURTHERMORE, THE UNIVERSAL MESSIAH JESUS CHRIST

DECLARES THAT "FOR JUDGMENT I AM COME INTO THIS WORLD" JOHN 9.39.

SEE ALSO MATTHEW 7.2 "FOR WHAT JUDGMENT YOU JUDGE, YOU SHALL BE

JUDGED".

(THERE ARE OVER 200 VERSES IN THE THREE JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS

TO STUDY IN THIS REGARD.)

"CRITICCRISIS", "CRITERIACRITERION" ETC. ARE ALL "KRIMA"

RELATED WORDS IN THE ENGLISH.

PLEASE, I IMPLORE YOU TO SERIOUSLY TAKE UP THE STUDY OF THE GREEK

JUDEO-CATHOLIC SHASTRAS OF MEDITERRANEAN RHODA-KOUROS (RADHA-KRISHNA)

CENTRIC VAISHNAVISM. IN THIS TRADITION, THE 'SECOND PERSON' OF THE

GODHEAD IS INCARNATE AS THE SERAPHIC GREAT PHYSICIAN, IASAS

AESCLEPIUS, WHICH IS ANANTA BALARAMA IN HIS "HIDDEN INCARNATION" AS

THE DIVINE NAGA-PHYSICIAN CARAKA (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE LATE

COURT PHYSICIAN OF THE SAME NAME.)

PLEASE STOP OUTSIDE SPECULATION AND THE STUDY OF LATE, CORRUPTED

PROTESTANTISM, AND GO BACK TO THE EARLY HEBREW AND GREEK JEWISH AND

CATHOLIC SCRIPTURES AND TRADITIONS.

GODHEAD'S PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL,

BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI

vediculture, "Mahesh" <mahesh@a...> wrote:

> Hare Krsna!

> All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!

> Pamho

>

> Dharmapad Prabhu wrote:

> "Can anyone pass some Bible verses on to me that suggest

reincarnation?"

>

> ================================

>

> If it helps.....I came across this---somewhere long time ago--

someone mentioned to me Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura gave

this type reply about the **born blind ** quote regards

reincarnation in Bible-- but I do not know if this is true or not.

Read the following:

>

> Jesus was walking with his disciples.

>

> In John 9:1-2

>

> As he went, he saw a blind man from birth. His disciples asked

him "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born

blind?"

>

> Note: the disciples are VERY specific as to the sin indicating

committed in PREVIOUS life):

> 1) this man OR

> 2) his parents

>

> which RESULTED of him being BORN blind.

>

> It appears at that time they UNDERSTOOD that Karma (sinful acts

performed in PREVIOUS life) which RESULTED they put down to TWO

SPECIFIC causes

> 1) this man OR

> 2) his parents

>

> So, although in THIS PARTICULAR case Jesus replies,"neither this

man or his parents but this happened so that the work of God might

be displayed in his life"

>

> BUT----- nevertheless no one can rule out the GENERAL ACCEPTED

UNDERSTANDING among the disciples that it WAS

> 1) this man OR

> 2) his parents

>

> OTHERWISE, --***WHY?***---- did they bother to ask SO SPECIFICALLY

> 1) this man OR

> 2) his parents

>

> Unless, THEY ALSO understood it MUST be-- ONE or the OTHER to have

been the CAUSE of sinning(reaction of Karma) PRIOR to his being---

blind from birth.

>

> Hare Krishna!

> ys mahesh

March 7, 2005

Bhakti Ananda proclaimed :

>

> HARE KRISHNA !

>

> SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA !

>

> DEAR VAISHNAVAS,

>

> PAMHO.

>

> HOW UNFORTUNATE THAT AFTER OVER 30 YEARS, NOT A SINGLE VAISHNAVA HAS

> TAKEN MY ADVISE SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY JUST LOOK UP THE ACTUAL

> SANSKRIT-GREEK COGNATES IN THE SEPTUAGINT, APOCRYPHA AND NEW

> TESTAMENT . INSTEAD YOU ALL JUST GO ON SPECULATING, AND IGNORING THE

> AUTHENTIC JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS.

Vedic teachings are very clear about reincarnation . They're is no need

to follow your advice to understand this topic particularly when a

specific scripture is not perfectly authentic, if not revisited by

centuries of Council.

This judeo-centric conception of absolute truth is not exactly what

Srila Prabhupada or other great sages use to evoke for displaying

different features of karma , as birth and death.

>

> PLEASE, AGAIN, I BEG YOU TO ACTUALLY CONSULT THESE GREEK JEWISH AND

> NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES, WHERE AMONG COUNTLESS OTHER PROFOUNDLY

> IMPORTANT JEWISH AND CATHOLIC CONNECTIONS TO VAISHNAVISM, YOU WILL

> FIND "KRIMA" AND RELATED WORDS FOR GOD'S JUDGMENT, EITHER FAVORABLE

> OR UNFAVORABLE, USED OVER 200 TIMES. (SEE KRIMA [KARMA], KRINO

> [KARMA], KATAKRIMA, KATAKRISIS, KRISIS [CRISIS, TRIAL TEST],

> KRITERION [CRITERIA ALSO], KRITES AND KRITIKOS [CRITIC, CRITICAL,

> JUDGING, JUDGMENTAL]

There is no doubt of existing few similarities between Vedas and jewish

historiography but mainly vaisnavas give not great credit to the last.

>

> IN MANY OF THESE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT GREEK 'OLD TESTAMENT', APOCRYPHA

> AND NEW TESTAMENT VERSES, THE WORD "KARMA" COULD BE EXCHANGED

> FOR "KRIMA" / "KRINO" ETC. WITH NO CHANGE IN THE VERSE'S TRADITIONAL

> JEWISH OR CATHOLIC MEANING AT ALL.

Correct, all languages derive from prakrti, included hebrew , greek and

many different mlecchas languages. This caractere is to transform words

and meanings for misappropriation . Similarly Srila Prabhupada' book

are regularly revisited and "enlarged" but " fortunately" much less

distributed than original copies.

>

> PLEASE, I IMPLORE YOU TO SERIOUSLY TAKE UP THE STUDY OF THE GREEK

> JUDEO-CATHOLIC SHASTRAS OF MEDITERRANEAN RHODA-KOUROS (RADHA-KRISHNA)

> CENTRIC VAISHNAVISM.

What a strange call for an Iskcon leader! Why don't you implore to read

Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam and book distribution?.

> IN THIS TRADITION, THE 'SECOND PERSON' OF THE

> GODHEAD IS INCARNATE AS THE SERAPHIC GREAT PHYSICIAN, IASAS

> AESCLEPIUS, WHICH IS ANANTA BALARAMA IN HIS "HIDDEN INCARNATION" AS

> THE DIVINE NAGA-PHYSICIAN CARAKA (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE LATE

> COURT PHYSICIAN OF THE SAME NAME.)

Aesclepios (literally meaning: lame) was certainly involved with

subterranean Nagas but has absolutely nothing to do with Balaram. He was

kicked out from the celestial abode and falling to the earth, he has

been curred from his injuries by the titan Centaur Chiron, his master,

with bear marrow in a submarine cave and taught him a kind of asuric

medicine, using poison , ancestor of the modern medicine.( I better

personally take shelter in Ayurveda). Later, Chiron as been killed by

Zeus's vajra for being a big demon. Sandipani Muni is the spiritual

master of Balaram and Krsna. Do you still feel part of Chiron sampradaya?

The snake of the caduceus, emblem of western medicine, refer to the

Nagaasuras,the use of venom for healing and not to Ananta Sesa.

Remember, brahmanical culture had big problem with the snakes, 3000

years BC and probably still has.

So you are speculating to the maximum extent of a polluted esoterism

rough approach never encouraged by Srila Prabhupada .

>

> PLEASE STOP OUTSIDE SPECULATION AND THE STUDY OF LATE, CORRUPTED

> PROTESTANTISM, AND GO BACK TO THE EARLY HEBREW AND GREEK JEWISH AND

> CATHOLIC SCRIPTURES AND TRADITIONS.

>

> GODHEAD'S PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL,

>

> BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI

Next time, will you teach us how vedas are deriving from Torah or

K'baal? You cannot be a representant of vedic culture with such

statements, Maharajah and your incomplete understanding of vedas as for

judeo-greek mythology you purposely mix with is not sufficient to

exhort people to follow your tri-decennial advice.

All your post is full of falsification. This is a sign of a confused

mind and I humbly urge you to rectify the situation before receiving the

unwanted reward in due course of time for polluting Iskcon and vedic

culture as many other bogus "gurus" got.

Your servant

Vrajananda das , Iskcon Revival Movement

March 7, 2005

Bhakti Ananda Prabhu

Hare Krsna!

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada

Pamho

Just a few instructions from OUR GLORIOUS spiritual master His Divine Grace A C

Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada will be enough to answer why many devotees do

not wish take part in what you have suggested.----- No offense intended. Please

read. Thank-you very much.

74-01-02. Letter: Bhumata There is no other scripture which can compare to

the Vedic scriptures so we should study these scriptures** exclusively**. When

one becomes an initiated disciple although he has respect for the Christian

Bible, nevertheless he must understand the Bhagavad-gita and must apply all

study there and not spend time unnecessarily with other literatures.

69-11-02. Letter: Hamsaduta Regarding your question about Lord Jesus

Christ, we accept him as saktyavesa avatara. Lord Buddha is in the same

category also. Lord Buddha is mentioned specifically in Srimad-Bhagavatam as

incarnation of Godhead, and yet Vaisnavas do not accept his philosophy, which

is classified as atheism. Similarly, even if we accept Lord Jesus Christ as

saktyavesa avatara., it doesn't mean that we have to accept his philosophy. But

we have all respects for him without fail. Regarding books like Aquarian Gospel

or even the Testiments, we cannot accept them as authorities because sometimes

it is learnt that the words are not actually spoken by Christ, but they are so

set up by the devotees. For example, in the Ten Commandments it is clearly

stated "Thou shalt not kill", but some Bishop in Boston has changed it to "Thou

shalt do no murder". This means the Bishop wants to keep hold for animal

slaughter. So don't bother about all these literatures. We have all respect for

these great preachers, but we do not require to study books save and accept for

some reference. We must push on our philosophy how to love God. **Our process

is simple. We have got volumes of books also, so it is better for us to mind

our own business than to divert our attention in the studies of other books.

This was definitely forbidden by Lord Caitanya.**

NBS 12 P Narada-bhakti-sutra These ten principles of devotional

service are the beginning. Additional principles are as follows: (11) One

should avoid committing offenses against the holy name, the Deity, etc. (12)

One should avoid associating with nondevotees. (13) One should not aspire to

have many disciples. (14) One should not unnecessarily divert his attention by

partially studying many books so as to appear very learned. For devotional

service, it is sufficient to scrutinizingly study books like the Bhagavad-gita,

the Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the Caitanya-caritamrta. (15) One should not be

disturbed in either loss or gain. (16) One should not allow oneself to be

overwhelmed by lamentation for any reason. (17) One should not blaspheme the

demigods, although one should not worship them. Similarly, one should not

criticize other scriptures, although one should not follow the principles

therein.

690915LE.LON Lectures You haven't got to study many books.

You just simply study Bhagavad-gita As It Is.

ys mahesh

-

Bhakti Ananda Goswami

vediculture

Monday, March 07, 2005 9:38 AM

Re: [world-vedic] Reincarnation in the Bible

HARE KRISHNA !SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA !DEAR VAISHNAVAS, PAMHO.HOW

UNFORTUNATE THAT AFTER OVER 30 YEARS, NOT A SINGLE VAISHNAVA HAS TAKEN MY

ADVISE SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY JUST LOOK UP THE ACTUAL SANSKRIT-GREEK

COGNATES IN THE SEPTUAGINT, APOCRYPHA AND NEW TESTAMENT . INSTEAD YOU ALL JUST

GO ON SPECULATING, AND IGNORING THE AUTHENTIC JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS.

PLEASE, AGAIN, I BEG YOU TO ACTUALLY CONSULT THESE GREEK JEWISH AND NEW

TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES, WHERE AMONG COUNTLESS OTHER PROFOUNDLY IMPORTANT JEWISH

AND CATHOLIC CONNECTIONS TO VAISHNAVISM, YOU WILL FIND "KRIMA" AND RELATED

WORDS FOR GOD'S JUDGMENT, EITHER FAVORABLE OR UNFAVORABLE, USED OVER 200 TIMES.

(SEE KRIMA [KARMA], KRINO [KARMA], KATAKRIMA, KATAKRISIS, KRISIS [CRISIS, TRIAL

TEST], KRITERION [CRITERIA ALSO], KRITES AND KRITIKOS [CRITIC, CRITICAL,

JUDGING, JUDGMENTAL]IN MANY OF THESE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT GREEK 'OLD TESTAMENT',

APOCRYPHA AND NEW TESTAMENT VERSES, THE WORD "KARMA" COULD BE EXCHANGED FOR

"KRIMA" / "KRINO" ETC. WITH NO CHANGE IN THE VERSE'S TRADITIONAL JEWISH OR

CATHOLIC MEANING AT ALL. HOWEVER, THE CALVINIST AND RELATED PROTESTANT

MISREADINGS OF THE NEUTRAL JUDGMENT WORD "KRIMA", ALWAYS IN THE EXTREME

NEGATIVE AS "DAMNATION", IS WHY THE PROTESTANT BIBLES ARE SO HEAVY ON

"DAMNATION" AND 'HELLFIRE'. KRIMA [KARMA] AS GOD'S PERFECT "JUDGMENT" IS

SUBJECTIVELY EXPERIENCED AS EITHER 'GOOD' OR 'BAD'. A 'CRIMINAL' IS ONE UPON

WHOM A 'NEGATIVE' JUDGMENT HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED. HOWEVER, THE JEWISH AND

CATHOLIC TRADITIONS MAKE IT CLEAR THAT GOD'S JUDGMENT IS ALWAYS BOTH JUST AND

MERCIFUL. FURTHERMORE, THE UNIVERSAL MESSIAH JESUS CHRISTDECLARES THAT "FOR

JUDGMENT I AM COME INTO THIS WORLD" JOHN 9.39. SEE ALSO MATTHEW 7.2 "FOR WHAT

JUDGMENT YOU JUDGE, YOU SHALL BE JUDGED". (THERE ARE OVER 200 VERSES IN THE

THREE JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS TO STUDY IN THIS REGARD.) "CRITIC"

"CRISIS", "CRITERIACRITERION" ETC. ARE ALL "KRIMA" RELATED WORDS IN THE

ENGLISH. PLEASE, I IMPLORE YOU TO SERIOUSLY TAKE UP THE STUDY OF THE GREEK

JUDEO-CATHOLIC SHASTRAS OF MEDITERRANEAN RHODA-KOUROS (RADHA-KRISHNA) CENTRIC

VAISHNAVISM. IN THIS TRADITION, THE 'SECOND PERSON' OF THE GODHEAD IS INCARNATE

AS THE SERAPHIC GREAT PHYSICIAN, IASAS AESCLEPIUS, WHICH IS ANANTA BALARAMA IN

HIS "HIDDEN INCARNATION" AS THE DIVINE NAGA-PHYSICIAN CARAKA (NOT TO BE

CONFUSED WITH THE LATE COURT PHYSICIAN OF THE SAME NAME.)PLEASE STOP OUTSIDE

SPECULATION AND THE STUDY OF LATE, CORRUPTED PROTESTANTISM, AND GO BACK TO THE

EARLY HEBREW AND GREEK JEWISH AND CATHOLIC SCRIPTURES AND TRADITIONS. GODHEAD'S

PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL, BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI --- In

vediculture, "Mahesh" <mahesh@a...> wrote:> Hare Krsna!> All

Glories to Srila Prabhupada!> Pamho> > > Dharmapad Prabhu wrote:> "Can anyone

pass some Bible verses on to me that suggest reincarnation?"> >

================================> > If it helps.....I came across

this---somewhere long time ago-- someone mentioned to me Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

Saraswati Thakura gave this type reply about the **born blind ** quote regards

reincarnation in Bible-- but I do not know if this is true or not. Read the

following:> > Jesus was walking with his disciples.> > In John 9:1-2> > As he

went, he saw a blind man from birth. His disciples asked him "Rabbi, who

sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"> > Note: the

disciples are VERY specific as to the sin indicating committed in PREVIOUS

life):> 1) this man OR> 2) his parents> > which RESULTED of him being BORN

blind.> > It appears at that time they UNDERSTOOD that Karma (sinful acts

performed in PREVIOUS life) which RESULTED they put down to TWO SPECIFIC causes

> 1) this man OR> 2) his parents> > So, although in THIS PARTICULAR case Jesus

replies,"neither this man or his parents but this happened so that the work of

God might be displayed in his life"> > BUT----- nevertheless no one can rule out

the GENERAL ACCEPTED UNDERSTANDING among the disciples that it WAS > 1) this

man OR> 2) his parents> > OTHERWISE, --***WHY?***---- did they bother to ask SO

SPECIFICALLY > 1) this man OR> 2) his parents> > Unless, THEY ALSO understood it

MUST be-- ONE or the OTHER to have been the CAUSE of sinning(reaction of Karma)

PRIOR to his being--- blind from birth.> > Hare Krishna!> ys maheshThis is an

information resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's

Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and

scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects

of World Culture are welcome.Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial

imposition, but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God

and the environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om Links<*> To visit your

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from this group, send an email to:

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to:

March 7, 2005

HARE KRISHNA !

SRILA PRABHUPADA KI JAYA!

DEAR MAHESH PRABHU,

PAMHO. (PLEASE EXCUSE MY WRITING IN ALL UPPER CASE, AS THESE LARGER

LETTERS ARE EASIER FOR ME TO SEE.)

I AM IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU THAT INITIATED DISCIPLES OF A MASTER

SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON THE STUDIES PRESCRIBED FOR THEM BY THEIR

MASTER. IN FACT, FOR OVER 30 YEARS I HAVE TOLD MANY DEVOTEES THAT

THEY SHOULD OBEY SRILA PRABHUPADA AND READ BHAGAVAD-GITA, THEN SRIMAD-

BHAGAVATAM, AND THEN CAITANYA-CARITAMRTA, AND SHOULD STRICTLY AVOID

READING ALL OF THE NONSENSE 'NEW AGE' LITERATURES THAT THEY WERE

READING.

REGARDING MY OWN STUDIES, FROM THE BEGINNING OF MY SERVICE TO SRILA

PRABHUPADA, IT WAS IN THE FIELD OF VAISHNAVA-JUDEO-CATHOLIC

HISTORICAL AND COMPARATIVE STUDIES, AND AFTER OUR BELOVED SRILA

PRABHUPADA DISAPPEARED, I WAS ACTUALLY BLESSED AND FORMALLY ANOINTED

TO CARRY ON THIS 'INTERFAITH' SERVICE BY ACARYA PRABHAKAR MISHRA,

SRILA PRABHUPADA'S FIRST DISCIPLE AND CO-FOUNDER OF THE ORIGINAL

LEAGUE OF DEVOTEES.

THE POINT OF MY POST WAS THAT RATHER THAN READ SO MANY VERY LATE

PROTESTANT CORRUPTIONS OF THE AUTHENTIC JEWISH AND CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC

SCRIPTURES, AND NONSENSE NEW AGE BOOKS LIKE THE SO-CALLED 'AQUARIAN

GOSPEL' (WHICH IS A MODERN 'CHANNELED' WORK OF FICTION) AND SPECULATE

ABOUT SUCH THINGS, IF IT IS NECESSARY TO STUDY SUCH SUBJECTS

AS "KARMA" IN THE BIBLE, ONE SHOULD GO TO THE ACTUAL AUTHENTICALLY

ANCIENT SOURCE MATERIALS.

MY COMMENT IS NOT DIRECTED TO THE MANY INITIATED DEVOTEES WHO ARE

CHASTELY STUDYING THEIR OWN GAUDIYA VAISHNAVA SCRIPTURES. IT IS

DIRECTED TO THE PREACHERS AND SO-CALLED SCHOLARS AND RESEARCHISTS IN

THE MOVEMENT, WHO INSIST ON WRITING AND TEACHING ABOUT JUDAISM AND /

OR CATHOLICISM OR CHRISTIANITY, WHEN IN FACT THEY KNOW VERY LITTLE OR

PRACTICALLY NOTHING ABOUT THESE TRADITIONS FROM ANY AUTHENTIC

SOURCES. INSTEAD THESE SO-CALLED SCHOLARS HAVE OFTEN FILLED THEIR

HEADS WITH NEO-GNOSTICISM OR WESTERN ESOTERIC TRADITION 'NEW AGE'

IDEAS ABOUT JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY. HAVING DONE SO, THEY THEN MAKE

COUNTLESS OFFENCES AGAINST GOD AND THE DEVOTEES OF THESE TRADITIONS,

AS WELL AS EMBARRASSING THE VAISHNAVA TRADITION WITH THEIR

MALEDUCATED AND PREJUDICIAL NONSENSE.

WORST OF ALL, THEY HAVE BROUGHT THEIR NEW AGE NONSENSE INTO THE PURE

VAISHNAVA TRADITION AND POLLUTED IT WITH ALL OF THEIR 'CHANNELED'

PSYCHIC, THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY RELATED 'ASCENDED MASTERS' AND 'ARYAN

CHRIST' NEW AGE NONSENSE.

SO I WOULD BE MUCH HAPPIER IF ALL THESE RASCALS WOULD JUST MIND THEIR

OWN VAISHNAVA STUDIES AND LEAVE DISCUSSION OF THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN

TRADITION UP TO THOSE WHOSE SERVICE IT IS, AND WHO ARE ACTUALLY

QUALIFIED FOR IT.

SPIRITUAL CHASTITY IN ONE'S DEVOTIONAL LIFE IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

SRILA PRABHUPADA EMPHASIZED THIS PRINCIPLE FOR THE GOOD OF ALL OF HIS

DISCIPLES. GURU, SHASTRA AND SADHU GUIDE THE FAITHFUL DISCIPLE IN AN

AUTHENTIC 'APOSTOLIC' LINEAGE. TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS IN SUCH A LINEAGE

REQUIRES AN UNDIVIDED DEVOTION. HOWEVER, IF THE DISCIPLE IS

NOT 'SPIRITUALLY CHASTE', THEY WILL NOT BE SATISFIED WITH THEIR GURU

OR SHASTRA OR THE SADHUS / SAINTS OF THEIR OWN TRADITION. THUS THEY

WILL WANDER, EITHER IN THEIR THOUGHTS OR ACTUAL DEEDS, FROM THE

STRAIGHT-AND-NARROW PATH MARKED OUT FOR THEM BY THEIR MASTER.

IN THIS WANDERING MOOD, THEY WILL BECOME SEDUCED BY ALL KINDS OF

CHEATERS, WHO ARE LOOKING FOR SUCH WEAK-WILLED DEVOTEES. THUS THESE

UNCHASTE DEVOTEES WILL FALL PREY TO SO MANY BOGUS YOGIS. THEY WILL

ACCEPT SO MANY COMPLETELY FRAUDULENT 'NEW AGE' LITERATURES

AS 'SHASTRAS', THEY WILL FOLLOW SO MANY PHONY 'SAINTS / SADHUS' AND

END UP TOTALLY CONFUSED AND UTTERLY LOST INSTEAD OF 'ENLIGHTENED'.

SO FOR THE DEVOTEE WHO HAS NOT BEEN SPECIFICALLY CALLED AND ORDERED,

AND EMPOWERED BY THEIR MASTER TO SERVE IN THE FIELD OF INTERFAITH

SCHOLARSHIP AND DIALOGUE, IT IS THE SAFE COURSE TO FOCUS ON THE

SPECIFIC 'SECTARIAN' LINEAGE CURRICULUM ASSIGNED BY THEIR ACARYA.

THIS IS MY OPINION ABOUT DEVOTEES IN GENERAL.

AS FAR AS THESE OTHER UNQUALIFIED JEWISH AND CHRISTIAN COMMENTATORS

ARE CONCERNED, THEY ARE JUST CREATING OFFENCES AND HAVOC IN THE WORLD

BY PREACHING AND WRITING SO MUCH OFFENSIVE NEW AGE INFLUENCED

NONSENSE. BETTER THAT THEY SHOULD JUST BE SILENT AND GO BACK TO

STUDYING SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BOOKS EXCLUSIVELY.

IF SOME DEVOTEE HAS A LEGITIMATE CALLING AND EMPOWERMENT FOR

INTERFAITH SERVICE, MY ADVISE IS RELEVANT FOR THEM:

DO NOT TRY TO UNDERSTAND JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY OR OTHER ANCIENT

TRADITIONS FROM MODERN OR NEW AGE COMMENTATORS. GO TO THE SOURCES OF

EVIDENCE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, AND ESPECIALLY READ THE SCRIPTURES OF

THESE TRADITIONS IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. THAT

IS WHERE THE VAISHNAVA CONNECTIONS ARE VERY APPARENT.

HARI BOL !

BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI

vediculture, "Mahesh" <mahesh@a...> wrote:

> Bhakti Ananda Prabhu

> Hare Krsna!

> All Glories to Srila Prabhupada

> Pamho

>

> Just a few instructions from OUR GLORIOUS spiritual master His

Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada will be enough to

answer why many devotees do not wish take part in what you have

suggested.----- No offense intended. Please read. Thank-you very much.

>

> 74-01-02. Letter: Bhumata

> There is no other scripture which can compare to the Vedic

scriptures so we should study these scriptures** exclusively**. When

one becomes an initiated disciple although he has respect for the

Christian Bible, nevertheless he must understand the Bhagavad-gita

and must apply all study there and not spend time unnecessarily with

other literatures.

>

> 69-11-02. Letter: Hamsaduta

> Regarding your question about Lord Jesus Christ, we accept him

as saktyavesa avatara. Lord Buddha is in the same category also. Lord

Buddha is mentioned specifically in Srimad-Bhagavatam as incarnation

of Godhead, and yet Vaisnavas do not accept his philosophy, which is

classified as atheism. Similarly, even if we accept Lord Jesus Christ

as saktyavesa avatara., it doesn't mean that we have to accept his

philosophy. But we have all respects for him without fail. Regarding

books like Aquarian Gospel or even the Testiments, we cannot accept

them as authorities because sometimes it is learnt that the words are

not actually spoken by Christ, but they are so set up by the

devotees. For example, in the Ten Commandments it is clearly

stated "Thou shalt not kill", but some Bishop in Boston has changed

it to "Thou shalt do no murder". This means the Bishop wants to keep

hold for animal slaughter. So don't bother about all these

literatures. We have all respect for these great preachers, but we do

not require to study books save and accept for some reference. We

must push on our philosophy how to love God. **Our process is simple.

We have got volumes of books also, so it is better for us to mind our

own business than to divert our attention in the studies of other

books. This was definitely forbidden by Lord Caitanya.**

>

> NBS 12 P Narada-bhakti-sutra

> These ten principles of devotional service are the beginning.

Additional principles are as follows: (11) One should avoid

committing offenses against the holy name, the Deity, etc. (12) One

should avoid associating with nondevotees. (13) One should not aspire

to have many disciples. (14) One should not unnecessarily divert his

attention by partially studying many books so as to appear very

learned. For devotional service, it is sufficient to scrutinizingly

study books like the Bhagavad-gita, the Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the

Caitanya-caritamrta. (15) One should not be disturbed in either loss

or gain. (16) One should not allow oneself to be overwhelmed by

lamentation for any reason. (17) One should not blaspheme the

demigods, although one should not worship them. Similarly, one should

not criticize other scriptures, although one should not follow the

principles therein.

>

> 690915LE.LON Lectures

> You haven't got to study many books. You just simply study

Bhagavad-gita As It Is.

>

> ys mahesh

>

> -

> Bhakti Ananda Goswami

> vediculture

> Monday, March 07, 2005 9:38 AM

> Re: [world-vedic] Reincarnation in the Bible

>

> HARE KRISHNA !

>

> SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA !

>

> DEAR VAISHNAVAS,

>

> PAMHO.

>

> HOW UNFORTUNATE THAT AFTER OVER 30 YEARS, NOT A SINGLE VAISHNAVA

HAS

> TAKEN MY ADVISE SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY JUST LOOK UP THE

ACTUAL

> SANSKRIT-GREEK COGNATES IN THE SEPTUAGINT, APOCRYPHA AND NEW

> TESTAMENT . INSTEAD YOU ALL JUST GO ON SPECULATING, AND IGNORING

THE

> AUTHENTIC JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS.

>

> PLEASE, AGAIN, I BEG YOU TO ACTUALLY CONSULT THESE GREEK JEWISH

AND

> NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES, WHERE AMONG COUNTLESS OTHER PROFOUNDLY

> IMPORTANT JEWISH AND CATHOLIC CONNECTIONS TO VAISHNAVISM, YOU

WILL

> FIND "KRIMA" AND RELATED WORDS FOR GOD'S JUDGMENT, EITHER

FAVORABLE

> OR UNFAVORABLE, USED OVER 200 TIMES. (SEE KRIMA [KARMA], KRINO

> [KARMA], KATAKRIMA, KATAKRISIS, KRISIS [CRISIS, TRIAL TEST],

> KRITERION [CRITERIA ALSO], KRITES AND KRITIKOS [CRITIC, CRITICAL,

> JUDGING, JUDGMENTAL]

>

> IN MANY OF THESE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT GREEK 'OLD TESTAMENT',

APOCRYPHA

> AND NEW TESTAMENT VERSES, THE WORD "KARMA" COULD BE EXCHANGED

> FOR "KRIMA" / "KRINO" ETC. WITH NO CHANGE IN THE VERSE'S

TRADITIONAL

> JEWISH OR CATHOLIC MEANING AT ALL.

>

> HOWEVER, THE CALVINIST AND RELATED PROTESTANT MISREADINGS OF THE

> NEUTRAL JUDGMENT WORD "KRIMA", ALWAYS IN THE EXTREME NEGATIVE

> AS "DAMNATION", IS WHY THE PROTESTANT BIBLES ARE SO HEAVY

> ON "DAMNATION" AND 'HELLFIRE'.

>

> KRIMA [KARMA] AS GOD'S PERFECT "JUDGMENT" IS SUBJECTIVELY

EXPERIENCED

> AS EITHER 'GOOD' OR 'BAD'. A 'CRIMINAL' IS ONE UPON WHOM

A 'NEGATIVE'

> JUDGMENT HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED. HOWEVER, THE JEWISH AND CATHOLIC

> TRADITIONS MAKE IT CLEAR THAT GOD'S JUDGMENT IS ALWAYS BOTH JUST

AND

> MERCIFUL. FURTHERMORE, THE UNIVERSAL MESSIAH JESUS CHRIST

> DECLARES THAT "FOR JUDGMENT I AM COME INTO THIS WORLD" JOHN 9.39.

>

> SEE ALSO MATTHEW 7.2 "FOR WHAT JUDGMENT YOU JUDGE, YOU SHALL BE

> JUDGED".

>

> (THERE ARE OVER 200 VERSES IN THE THREE JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK

SHASTRAS

> TO STUDY IN THIS REGARD.)

>

> "CRITICCRISIS", "CRITERIACRITERION" ETC. ARE ALL "KRIMA"

> RELATED WORDS IN THE ENGLISH.

>

> PLEASE, I IMPLORE YOU TO SERIOUSLY TAKE UP THE STUDY OF THE GREEK

> JUDEO-CATHOLIC SHASTRAS OF MEDITERRANEAN RHODA-KOUROS (RADHA-

KRISHNA)

> CENTRIC VAISHNAVISM. IN THIS TRADITION, THE 'SECOND PERSON' OF

THE

> GODHEAD IS INCARNATE AS THE SERAPHIC GREAT PHYSICIAN, IASAS

> AESCLEPIUS, WHICH IS ANANTA BALARAMA IN HIS "HIDDEN INCARNATION"

AS

> THE DIVINE NAGA-PHYSICIAN CARAKA (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE

LATE

> COURT PHYSICIAN OF THE SAME NAME.)

>

> PLEASE STOP OUTSIDE SPECULATION AND THE STUDY OF LATE, CORRUPTED

> PROTESTANTISM, AND GO BACK TO THE EARLY HEBREW AND GREEK JEWISH

AND

> CATHOLIC SCRIPTURES AND TRADITIONS.

>

> GODHEAD'S PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL,

>

> BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI

>

> vediculture, "Mahesh" <mahesh@a...> wrote:

> > Hare Krsna!

> > All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!

> > Pamho

> >

> > Dharmapad Prabhu wrote:

> > "Can anyone pass some Bible verses on to me that suggest

> reincarnation?"

> >

> > ================================

> >

> > If it helps.....I came across this---somewhere long time ago--

> someone mentioned to me Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura

gave

> this type reply about the **born blind ** quote regards

> reincarnation in Bible-- but I do not know if this is true or

not.

> Read the following:

> >

> > Jesus was walking with his disciples.

> >

> > In John 9:1-2

> >

> > As he went, he saw a blind man from birth. His disciples asked

> him "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was

born

> blind?"

> >

> > Note: the disciples are VERY specific as to the sin indicating

> committed in PREVIOUS life):

> > 1) this man OR

> > 2) his parents

> >

> > which RESULTED of him being BORN blind.

> >

> > It appears at that time they UNDERSTOOD that Karma (sinful acts

> performed in PREVIOUS life) which RESULTED they put down to TWO

> SPECIFIC causes

> > 1) this man OR

> > 2) his parents

> >

> > So, although in THIS PARTICULAR case Jesus replies,"neither

this

> man or his parents but this happened so that the work of God

might

> be displayed in his life"

> >

> > BUT----- nevertheless no one can rule out the GENERAL ACCEPTED

> UNDERSTANDING among the disciples that it WAS

> > 1) this man OR

> > 2) his parents

> >

> > OTHERWISE, --***WHY?***---- did they bother to ask SO

SPECIFICALLY

> > 1) this man OR

> > 2) his parents

> >

> > Unless, THEY ALSO understood it MUST be-- ONE or the OTHER to

have

> been the CAUSE of sinning(reaction of Karma) PRIOR to his being---

> blind from birth.

> >

> > Hare Krishna!

> > ys mahesh

>

> This is an information resource and discussion group for people

interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its

historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about

India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome.

> Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is

the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the

environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om

>

> Links

March 8, 2005

Dear Bhakti Ananda Prabhu

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada

Pamho

Hare Krsna!

Regards "interfaith" preaching you mention-- Srila Prabhupada's solution and

method is described below:

70-04-28. Letter: Citsukhananda Regarding the disturbing groups of

"Christians" so-called, that is alright. Let them follow Lord Jesus Christ.

Regarding their dogmatic insistence, everyone thinks like that, so if one is

not prepared to advance more, it is better to avoid them. If one is limited by

some formulas only, he is described as an animal which is bound up by the chain

of the master and cannot move beyond the length of the chain. So we are

concerned with persons who are not chained by anything.

Srila Prabhupada only preached to these kind of people on the basis of giving-up

meat eating . So long as they are merciless they can NOT understand the value of

Krsna Consciousness what is soul, what is God.

730824BG.LON LecturesPrabhupada: Pariksit Maharaja. He said that

God consciousness, Krsna consciousness, cannot be understood by the animal

killer. Vina pasughnat. Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanat. You'll find those who are

animal killers, the so-called Christians and Mohammedans, they cannot

understand. They (are) simply fanatics. Cannot understand what is soul, what is

God. They have got some theories and they are thinking we are religionists. What

is sin, what is pious activities, these things are not understood by them

because they are animal killers. It is not possible. Therefore Lord Buddha

propagated ahimsa. Ahimsa. Because he saw the whole human race is going to hell

by this animal killing. "Let me stop them so that they may, in future, they may

become sober." Sadaya-hrdaya darsita: Two sides. First of all he was very much

compassionate, that poor animals, they are being killed. And another side, he

saw "The whole human race is going to hell. So let me do something." Therefore

he had to deny the existence of the soul because their brain will not tolerate

such things. Therefore he did not say anything about the soul or God. He said

that "You stop animal killing." If I pinch you, you feel pain. So why should

you give pain to others? Never mind he has no soul; that's all right. He did

not talk anything about soul. So these people say the animals have no soul. But

that's all right, but he's feeling pain when you are killing the animal. So you

also feel pain. So why should you give pain to others? That is Lord Buddha's

theory. Sadaya-hrdaya darsita-pasu-ghatam. Nindasi yajna-vidher ahaha

sruti-jatam. He denied that: "I don't accept Vedas." Because in the Vedas there

is sometimes recommendation, not for killing, but for giving rejuvenation to an

animal. But killing, in that sense, is there for sacrifice. But Lord Buddha did

not accept even animal killing in sacrifice. Therefore, nindasi. Nindasi means

he was criticizing. Nindasi yajna-vidher ahaha sruti-jatam sadaya-hrdaya

darsita. Why? He was so kind and compassionate. That is Krsna consciousness.

God is very kind, very compassionate. He does not like. But when there is

necessity, He can kill. But His killing and our killing is different. He's all

good. Anyone killed by Krsna, he immediately gets salvation. So these thing are

there.

Hare Krsna!

ys mahesh

-

Bhakti Ananda Goswami

vediculture

Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:55 AM

Re: [world-vedic] Reincarnation in the Bible

HARE KRISHNA !SRILA PRABHUPADA KI JAYA! DEAR MAHESH PRABHU,PAMHO. (PLEASE

EXCUSE MY WRITING IN ALL UPPER CASE, AS THESE LARGER LETTERS ARE EASIER FOR ME

TO SEE.) I AM IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU THAT INITIATED DISCIPLES OF A MASTER SHOULD

CONCENTRATE ON THE STUDIES PRESCRIBED FOR THEM BY THEIR MASTER. IN FACT, FOR

OVER 30 YEARS I HAVE TOLD MANY DEVOTEES THAT THEY SHOULD OBEY SRILA PRABHUPADA

AND READ BHAGAVAD-GITA, THEN SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM, AND THEN CAITANYA-CARITAMRTA,

AND SHOULD STRICTLY AVOID READING ALL OF THE NONSENSE 'NEW AGE' LITERATURES

THAT THEY WERE READING.REGARDING MY OWN STUDIES, FROM THE BEGINNING OF MY

SERVICE TO SRILA PRABHUPADA, IT WAS IN THE FIELD OF VAISHNAVA-JUDEO-CATHOLIC

HISTORICAL AND COMPARATIVE STUDIES, AND AFTER OUR BELOVED SRILA PRABHUPADA

DISAPPEARED, I WAS ACTUALLY BLESSED AND FORMALLY ANOINTED TO CARRY ON THIS

'INTERFAITH' SERVICE BY ACARYA PRABHAKAR MISHRA, SRILA PRABHUPADA'S FIRST

DISCIPLE AND CO-FOUNDER OF THE ORIGINAL LEAGUE OF DEVOTEES. THE POINT OF MY

POST WAS THAT RATHER THAN READ SO MANY VERY LATE PROTESTANT CORRUPTIONS OF THE

AUTHENTIC JEWISH AND CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC SCRIPTURES, AND NONSENSE NEW AGE BOOKS

LIKE THE SO-CALLED 'AQUARIAN GOSPEL' (WHICH IS A MODERN 'CHANNELED' WORK OF

FICTION) AND SPECULATE ABOUT SUCH THINGS, IF IT IS NECESSARY TO STUDY SUCH

SUBJECTS AS "KARMA" IN THE BIBLE, ONE SHOULD GO TO THE ACTUAL AUTHENTICALLY

ANCIENT SOURCE MATERIALS. MY COMMENT IS NOT DIRECTED TO THE MANY INITIATED

DEVOTEES WHO ARE CHASTELY STUDYING THEIR OWN GAUDIYA VAISHNAVA SCRIPTURES. IT

IS DIRECTED TO THE PREACHERS AND SO-CALLED SCHOLARS AND RESEARCHISTS IN THE

MOVEMENT, WHO INSIST ON WRITING AND TEACHING ABOUT JUDAISM AND / OR CATHOLICISM

OR CHRISTIANITY, WHEN IN FACT THEY KNOW VERY LITTLE OR PRACTICALLY NOTHING ABOUT

THESE TRADITIONS FROM ANY AUTHENTIC SOURCES. INSTEAD THESE SO-CALLED SCHOLARS

HAVE OFTEN FILLED THEIR HEADS WITH NEO-GNOSTICISM OR WESTERN ESOTERIC TRADITION

'NEW AGE' IDEAS ABOUT JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY. HAVING DONE SO, THEY THEN MAKE

COUNTLESS OFFENCES AGAINST GOD AND THE DEVOTEES OF THESE TRADITIONS, AS WELL AS

EMBARRASSING THE VAISHNAVA TRADITION WITH THEIR MALEDUCATED AND PREJUDICIAL

NONSENSE. WORST OF ALL, THEY HAVE BROUGHT THEIR NEW AGE NONSENSE INTO THE PURE

VAISHNAVA TRADITION AND POLLUTED IT WITH ALL OF THEIR 'CHANNELED' PSYCHIC,

THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY RELATED 'ASCENDED MASTERS' AND 'ARYAN CHRIST' NEW AGE

NONSENSE. SO I WOULD BE MUCH HAPPIER IF ALL THESE RASCALS WOULD JUST MIND

THEIR OWN VAISHNAVA STUDIES AND LEAVE DISCUSSION OF THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN

TRADITION UP TO THOSE WHOSE SERVICE IT IS, AND WHO ARE ACTUALLY QUALIFIED FOR

IT. SPIRITUAL CHASTITY IN ONE'S DEVOTIONAL LIFE IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. SRILA

PRABHUPADA EMPHASIZED THIS PRINCIPLE FOR THE GOOD OF ALL OF HIS DISCIPLES.

GURU, SHASTRA AND SADHU GUIDE THE FAITHFUL DISCIPLE IN AN AUTHENTIC 'APOSTOLIC'

LINEAGE. TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS IN SUCH A LINEAGE REQUIRES AN UNDIVIDED DEVOTION.

HOWEVER, IF THE DISCIPLE IS NOT 'SPIRITUALLY CHASTE', THEY WILL NOT BE

SATISFIED WITH THEIR GURU OR SHASTRA OR THE SADHUS / SAINTS OF THEIR OWN

TRADITION. THUS THEY WILL WANDER, EITHER IN THEIR THOUGHTS OR ACTUAL DEEDS,

FROM THE STRAIGHT-AND-NARROW PATH MARKED OUT FOR THEM BY THEIR MASTER. IN THIS

WANDERING MOOD, THEY WILL BECOME SEDUCED BY ALL KINDS OF CHEATERS, WHO ARE

LOOKING FOR SUCH WEAK-WILLED DEVOTEES. THUS THESE UNCHASTE DEVOTEES WILL FALL

PREY TO SO MANY BOGUS YOGIS. THEY WILL ACCEPT SO MANY COMPLETELY FRAUDULENT

'NEW AGE' LITERATURES AS 'SHASTRAS', THEY WILL FOLLOW SO MANY PHONY 'SAINTS /

SADHUS' AND END UP TOTALLY CONFUSED AND UTTERLY LOST INSTEAD OF 'ENLIGHTENED'.

SO FOR THE DEVOTEE WHO HAS NOT BEEN SPECIFICALLY CALLED AND ORDERED, AND

EMPOWERED BY THEIR MASTER TO SERVE IN THE FIELD OF INTERFAITH SCHOLARSHIP AND

DIALOGUE, IT IS THE SAFE COURSE TO FOCUS ON THE SPECIFIC 'SECTARIAN' LINEAGE

CURRICULUM ASSIGNED BY THEIR ACARYA. THIS IS MY OPINION ABOUT DEVOTEES IN

GENERAL. AS FAR AS THESE OTHER UNQUALIFIED JEWISH AND CHRISTIAN COMMENTATORS

ARE CONCERNED, THEY ARE JUST CREATING OFFENCES AND HAVOC IN THE WORLD BY

PREACHING AND WRITING SO MUCH OFFENSIVE NEW AGE INFLUENCED NONSENSE. BETTER

THAT THEY SHOULD JUST BE SILENT AND GO BACK TO STUDYING SRILA PRABHUPADA'S

BOOKS EXCLUSIVELY. IF SOME DEVOTEE HAS A LEGITIMATE CALLING AND EMPOWERMENT

FOR INTERFAITH SERVICE, MY ADVISE IS RELEVANT FOR THEM:DO NOT TRY TO UNDERSTAND

JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY OR OTHER ANCIENT TRADITIONS FROM MODERN OR NEW AGE

COMMENTATORS. GO TO THE SOURCES OF EVIDENCE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, AND

ESPECIALLY READ THE SCRIPTURES OF THESE TRADITIONS IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES AS

MUCH AS POSSIBLE. THAT IS WHERE THE VAISHNAVA CONNECTIONS ARE VERY APPARENT.

HARI BOL !BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMIvediculture, "Mahesh"

<mahesh@a...> wrote:> Bhakti Ananda Prabhu> Hare Krsna!> All Glories to Srila

Prabhupada> Pamho> > Just a few instructions from OUR GLORIOUS spiritual master

His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada will be enough to answer why

many devotees do not wish take part in what you have suggested.----- No offense

intended. Please read. Thank-you very much.> > 74-01-02. Letter: Bhumata>

There is no other scripture which can compare to the Vedic scriptures so we

should study these scriptures** exclusively**. When one becomes an initiated

disciple although he has respect for the Christian Bible, nevertheless he must

understand the Bhagavad-gita and must apply all study there and not spend time

unnecessarily with other literatures.> > 69-11-02. Letter: Hamsaduta>

Regarding your question about Lord Jesus Christ, we accept him as saktyavesa

avatara. Lord Buddha is in the same category also. Lord Buddha is mentioned

specifically in Srimad-Bhagavatam as incarnation of Godhead, and yet Vaisnavas

do not accept his philosophy, which is classified as atheism. Similarly, even

if we accept Lord Jesus Christ as saktyavesa avatara., it doesn't mean that we

have to accept his philosophy. But we have all respects for him without fail.

Regarding books like Aquarian Gospel or even the Testiments, we cannot accept

them as authorities because sometimes it is learnt that the words are not

actually spoken by Christ, but they are so set up by the devotees. For example,

in the Ten Commandments it is clearly stated "Thou shalt not kill", but some

Bishop in Boston has changed it to "Thou shalt do no murder". This means the

Bishop wants to keep hold for animal slaughter. So don't bother about all these

literatures. We have all respect for these great preachers, but we do not

require to study books save and accept for some reference. We must push on our

philosophy how to love God. **Our process is simple. We have got volumes of

books also, so it is better for us to mind our own business than to divert our

attention in the studies of other books. This was definitely forbidden by Lord

Caitanya.**> > NBS 12 P Narada-bhakti-sutra> These ten

principles of devotional service are the beginni ng.Additional principles are

as follows: (11) One should avoid committing offenses against the holy name,

the Deity, etc. (12) One should avoid associating with nondevotees. (13) One

should not aspire to have many disciples. (14) One should not unnecessarily

divert his attention by partially studying many books so as to appear very

learned. For devotional service, it is sufficient to scrutinizingly study books

like the Bhagavad-gita, the Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the Caitanya-caritamrta. (15)

One should not be disturbed in either loss or gain. (16) One should not allow

oneself to be overwhelmed by lamentation for any reason. (17) One should not

blaspheme the demigods, although one should not worship them. Similarly, one

should not criticize other scriptures, although one should not follow the

principles therein.> > 690915LE.LON Lectures> You haven't

got to study many books. You just simply study Bhagavad-gita As It Is.> > ys

mahesh> > - > Bhakti Ananda Goswami >

vediculture > Monday, March 07, 2005 9:38 AM>

Re: [world-vedic] Reincarnation in the Bible> > > > > HARE KRISHNA

!> > SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA !> > DEAR VAISHNAVAS, > > PAMHO.>

> HOW UNFORTUNATE THAT AFTER OVER 30 YEARS, NOT A SINGLE VAISHNAVA HAS >

TAKEN MY ADVISE SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY JUST LOOK UP THE ACTUAL >

SANSKRIT-GREEK COGNATES IN THE SEPTUAGINT, APOCRYPHA AND NEW > TESTAMENT .

INSTEAD YOU ALL JUST GO ON SPECULATING, AND IGNORING THE > AUTHENTIC

JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS. > > PLEASE, AGAIN, I BEG YOU TO ACTUALLY

CONSULT THESE GREEK JEWISH AND > NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES, WHERE AMONG

COUNTLESS OTHER PROFOUNDLY > IMPORTANT JEWISH AND CATHOLIC CONNECTIONS TO

VAISHNAVISM, YOU WILL > FIND "KRIMA" AND RELATED WORDS FOR GOD'S JUDGMENT,

EITHER FAVORABLE > OR UNFAVORABLE, USED OVER 200 TIMES. (SEE KRIMA [KARMA],

KRINO > [KARMA], KATAKRIMA, KATAKRISIS, KRISIS [CRISIS, TRIAL TEST], >

KRITERION [CRITERIA ALSO], KRITES AND KRITIKOS [CRITIC, CRITICAL, > JUDGING,

JUDGMENTAL]> > IN MANY OF THESE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT GREEK 'OLD TESTAMENT',

APOCRYPHA > AND NEW TESTAMENT VERSES, THE WORD "KARMA" COULD BE EXCHANGED >

FOR "KRIMA" / "KRINO" ETC. WITH NO CHANGE IN THE VERSE'S TRADITIONAL > JEWISH

OR CATHOLIC MEANING AT ALL. > > HOWEVER, THE CALVINIST AND RELATED

PROTESTANT MISREADINGS OF THE > NEUTRAL JUDGMENT WORD "KRIMA", ALWAYS IN THE

EXTREME NEGATIVE > AS "DAMNATION", IS WHY THE PROTESTANT BIBLES ARE SO HEAVY >

ON "DAMNATION" AND 'HELLFIRE'. > > KRIMA [KARMA] AS GOD'S PERFECT "JUDGMENT"

IS SUBJECTIVELY EXPERIENCED > AS EITHER 'GOOD' OR 'BAD'. A 'CRIMINAL' IS ONE

UPON WHOM A 'NEGATIVE' > JUDGMENT HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED. HOWEVER, THE JEWISH

AND CATHOLIC > TRADITIONS MAKE IT CLEAR THAT GOD'S JUDGMENT IS ALWAYS BOTH

JUST AND > MERCIFUL. FURTHERMORE, THE UNIVERSAL MESSIAH JESUS CHRIST>

DECLARES THAT "FOR JUDGMENT I AM COME INTO THIS WORLD" JOHN 9.39. > > SEE

ALSO MATTHEW 7.2 "FOR WHAT JUDGMENT YOU JUDGE, YOU SHALL BE > JUDGED". > >

(THERE ARE OVER 200 VERSES IN THE THREE JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS > TO

STUDY IN THIS REGARD.)> > "CRITICCRISIS", "CRITERIACRITERION" ETC.

ARE ALL "KRIMA" > RELATED WORDS IN THE ENGLISH. > > PLEASE, I IMPLORE YOU

TO SERIOUSLY TAKE UP THE STUDY OF THE GREEK > JUDEO-CATHOLIC SHASTRAS OF

MEDITERRANEAN RHODA-KOUROS (RADHA-KRISHNA) > CENTRIC VAISHNAVISM. IN THIS

TRADITION, THE 'SECOND PERSON' OF THE > GODHEAD IS INCARNATE AS THE SERAPHIC

GREAT PHYSICIAN, IASAS > AESCLEPIUS, WHICH IS ANANTA BALARAMA IN HIS "HIDDEN

INCARNATION" AS > THE DIVINE NAGA-PHYSICIAN CARAKA (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH

THE LATE > COURT PHYSICIAN OF THE SAME NAME.)> > PLEASE STOP OUTSIDE

SPECULATION AND THE STUDY OF LATE, CORRUPTED > PROTESTANTISM, AND GO BACK TO

THE EARLY HEBREW AND GREEK JEWISH AND > CATHOLIC SCRIPTURES AND TRADITIONS. >

> GODHEAD'S PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL, > > BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI > > ---

In vediculture, "Mahesh" <mahesh@a...> wrote:> > Hare Krsna!>

> All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!> > Pamho> > > > > > Dharmapad

Prabhu wrote:> > "Can anyone pass some Bible verses on to me that suggest >

reincarnation?"> > > > ================================> > > > If it

helps.....I came across this---somewhere long time ago-- > someone mentioned

to me Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura gave > this type reply about

the **born blind ** quote regards > reincarnation in Bible-- but I do not

know if this is true or not. > Read the following:> > > > Jesus was

walking with his disciples.> > > > In John 9:1-2> > > > As he went, he

saw a blind man from birth. His disciples asked > him "Rabbi, who sinned,

this man or his parents, that he was born > blind?"> > > > Note: the

disciples are VERY specific as to the sin indicating > committed in PREVIOUS

life):> > 1) this man OR> > 2) his parents> > > > which RESULTED of him

being BORN blind.> > > > It appears at that time they UNDERSTOOD that Karma

(sinful acts > performed in PREVIOUS life) which RESULTED they put down to

TWO > SPECIFIC causes > > 1) this man OR> > 2) his parents> > > > So,

although in THIS PARTICULAR case Jesus replies,"neither this > man or his

parents but this happened so that the work of God might > be displayed in

his life"> > > > BUT----- nevertheless no one can rule out the GENERAL

ACCEPTED > UNDERSTANDING among the disciples that it WAS > > 1) this man

OR> > 2) his parents> > > > OTHERWISE, --***WHY?***---- did they bother

to ask SO SPECIFICALLY > > 1) this man OR> > 2) his parents> > > >

Unless, THEY ALSO understood it MUST be-- ONE or the OTHER to have > been the

CAUSE of sinning(reaction of Karma) PRIOR to his being--- > blind from birth.>

> > > Hare Krishna!> > ys mahesh> > > > > > This is an information

resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient

Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific

aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World

Culture are welcome.> Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial

imposition, but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God

and the environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om> > LinksThis is an

information resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's

Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and

scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects

of World Culture are welcome.Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial

imposition, but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God

and the environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om Links<*> To visit your

group on the web, go to: vediculture/<*> To

from this group, send an email to:

vediculture<*> Your use of is subject

to:

March 9, 2005

Vrajananda das,

Your perspective seems off the mark to me. The context that we have

here is that this is a list dedicated to showing that many of the

world's cultures are fragmentations of Vedic culture. Of course we

want to study those cultures with thye purpose of depicting them in

this light.

Those instructions by Shrila Prabhupada were issued a long time ago

in a certain context. Were it not for this context, we would have no

call to go studying the Bible.

I encourage Bhakti Anand Goswami to offer us more explanations so

that we can better understand the world around us in its connecto to

our world Vedic culture.

Dharmapada Dasa

vediculture, YVES FRANCES <yves.frances@c...>

wrote:

>

> Bhakti Ananda proclaimed :

>

> >

> > HARE KRISHNA !

> >

> > SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA !

> >

> > DEAR VAISHNAVAS,

> >

> > PAMHO.

> >

> > HOW UNFORTUNATE THAT AFTER OVER 30 YEARS, NOT A SINGLE VAISHNAVA

HAS

> > TAKEN MY ADVISE SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY JUST LOOK UP THE

ACTUAL

> > SANSKRIT-GREEK COGNATES IN THE SEPTUAGINT, APOCRYPHA AND NEW

> > TESTAMENT . INSTEAD YOU ALL JUST GO ON SPECULATING, AND IGNORING

THE

> > AUTHENTIC JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS.

>

> Vedic teachings are very clear about reincarnation . They're is no

need

> to follow your advice to understand this topic particularly when a

> specific scripture is not perfectly authentic, if not revisited by

> centuries of Council.

> This judeo-centric conception of absolute truth is not exactly what

> Srila Prabhupada or other great sages use to evoke for displaying

> different features of karma , as birth and death.

>

> >

> > PLEASE, AGAIN, I BEG YOU TO ACTUALLY CONSULT THESE GREEK JEWISH

AND

> > NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES, WHERE AMONG COUNTLESS OTHER PROFOUNDLY

> > IMPORTANT JEWISH AND CATHOLIC CONNECTIONS TO VAISHNAVISM, YOU WILL

> > FIND "KRIMA" AND RELATED WORDS FOR GOD'S JUDGMENT, EITHER

FAVORABLE

> > OR UNFAVORABLE, USED OVER 200 TIMES. (SEE KRIMA [KARMA], KRINO

> > [KARMA], KATAKRIMA, KATAKRISIS, KRISIS [CRISIS, TRIAL TEST],

> > KRITERION [CRITERIA ALSO], KRITES AND KRITIKOS [CRITIC, CRITICAL,

> > JUDGING, JUDGMENTAL]

>

> There is no doubt of existing few similarities between Vedas and

jewish

> historiography but mainly vaisnavas give not great credit to the

last.

>

> >

> > IN MANY OF THESE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT GREEK 'OLD TESTAMENT',

APOCRYPHA

> > AND NEW TESTAMENT VERSES, THE WORD "KARMA" COULD BE EXCHANGED

> > FOR "KRIMA" / "KRINO" ETC. WITH NO CHANGE IN THE VERSE'S

TRADITIONAL

> > JEWISH OR CATHOLIC MEANING AT ALL.

>

> Correct, all languages derive from prakrti, included hebrew ,

greek and

> many different mlecchas languages. This caractere is to transform

words

> and meanings for misappropriation . Similarly Srila Prabhupada'

book

> are regularly revisited and "enlarged" but " fortunately" much less

> distributed than original copies.

>

> >

> > PLEASE, I IMPLORE YOU TO SERIOUSLY TAKE UP THE STUDY OF THE GREEK

> > JUDEO-CATHOLIC SHASTRAS OF MEDITERRANEAN RHODA-KOUROS (RADHA-

KRISHNA)

> > CENTRIC VAISHNAVISM.

>

> What a strange call for an Iskcon leader! Why don't you implore to

read

> Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam and book distribution?.

>

> > IN THIS TRADITION, THE 'SECOND PERSON' OF THE

> > GODHEAD IS INCARNATE AS THE SERAPHIC GREAT PHYSICIAN, IASAS

> > AESCLEPIUS, WHICH IS ANANTA BALARAMA IN HIS "HIDDEN INCARNATION"

AS

> > THE DIVINE NAGA-PHYSICIAN CARAKA (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE LATE

> > COURT PHYSICIAN OF THE SAME NAME.)

>

> Aesclepios (literally meaning: lame) was certainly involved with

> subterranean Nagas but has absolutely nothing to do with Balaram.

He was

> kicked out from the celestial abode and falling to the earth, he

has

> been curred from his injuries by the titan Centaur Chiron, his

master,

> with bear marrow in a submarine cave and taught him a kind of

asuric

> medicine, using poison , ancestor of the modern medicine.( I better

> personally take shelter in Ayurveda). Later, Chiron as been killed

by

> Zeus's vajra for being a big demon. Sandipani Muni is the spiritual

> master of Balaram and Krsna. Do you still feel part of Chiron

sampradaya?

> The snake of the caduceus, emblem of western medicine, refer to

the

> Nagaasuras,the use of venom for healing and not to Ananta Sesa.

> Remember, brahmanical culture had big problem with the snakes, 3000

> years BC and probably still has.

> So you are speculating to the maximum extent of a polluted

esoterism

> rough approach never encouraged by Srila Prabhupada .

>

> >

> > PLEASE STOP OUTSIDE SPECULATION AND THE STUDY OF LATE, CORRUPTED

> > PROTESTANTISM, AND GO BACK TO THE EARLY HEBREW AND GREEK JEWISH

AND

> > CATHOLIC SCRIPTURES AND TRADITIONS.

> >

> > GODHEAD'S PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL,

> >

> > BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI

>

> Next time, will you teach us how vedas are deriving from Torah or

> K'baal? You cannot be a representant of vedic culture with such

> statements, Maharajah and your incomplete understanding of vedas as

for

> judeo-greek mythology you purposely mix with is not sufficient to

> exhort people to follow your tri-decennial advice.

> All your post is full of falsification. This is a sign of a

confused

> mind and I humbly urge you to rectify the situation before

receiving the

> unwanted reward in due course of time for polluting Iskcon and

vedic

> culture as many other bogus "gurus" got.

> Your servant

> Vrajananda das , Iskcon Revival Movement

March 10, 2005

Dear Dharmapada Prabhu,

You should admit that followers of Srila Prabhupada may have their own

understanding of his teachings since you have your personal approach of

it, fitting the views of a particular intentions as to prove the

authenticity of the Bible.

As an ex-catholic I have also some knowledge in the Bible as well but I

don't want to develop it for many reasons.

First of all because Srila Prabhupada has instructed us not to read

anything else of his 4 main books for spiritual and coherent understanding.

Secondly , because we cannot be certain that the historiography is not

biased, revisited and used for fulfilling not really vedic goals .

Third, if SP instructions are 30 years old and can be obsolete as you

seem to declare , how this ancient testament and other apocrypha can

still be accurate after 2000 years of translation, addings and Councils.

I can understand your desire to glorify a certain culture described as

mlecchas culture in the Puranas, mlecchas meaning those who eat

anything, but using the background and position that SP gave us is not

fair and should be revealed to the public because this not the Iskcon

mission.

Better to put a jean , a shirt and a kippa and let down the tri danda

for preaching such "research" to listeners who are struggling to

demystify the ultimate "discoveries" as Aryan invasion or unlikely

Hebraic avatars, bringing the mleccha culture in the first rank of

civilizations.

What said BAG is mostly wrong because , I made myself, after considering

the systematics lies about contemporary new mleccha theology, studies

about demonology for identifying the "enemies of Indra". My conclusion

conduced by the conclusions of SP was that anything related with the

mlecchas "upa"-scriptures is just an esoteric dark knowledge

controlled by very clever yaksas and raksasas as Baal, Moloch, Ahi, Bel

Zebub Aesclepios and others desert or Land of Snow "gods" and "buddhas" .

As far Aesclepios is concerned , he cannot be assimilated with Ananta

Balaram , Charaka, whose ayurvedic principles are completely opposite to

the titan Chiron's disciple principles as incubation, poison and

surgical practices. From Babylonia , the Brotherhood was called the Cult

of the Snake, which later in Greece took its form as the Cult of

Aesclepios.

Ayurveda is a medicine for men, devotees and in many of the cases for

the demigods. Aesclepios has nothing to do with Ayurveda and Charaka

commentary.

What I suspect is an enterprise of destruction of the understanding of

the vedas as for the endeavor of Srila Prabhupada to reestablish its

civilization.

I only have a question to you and your friend BAG with whom you seem to

exchange endless discussions : Below people will have an idea of your

common thesis.

http://www.saragrahi.org/Header%20Links/Articles%20By%20Author/Bhakti%20Anand%20\

Goswami/993%20Jesus%20in%20India%20Part%202a.htm

So this question is: do you have completed a master in any branch?

If my perspective seems off the mark to you is because you defend

opposite views but my duty also is to detect and denounce untruth any

time somebody wants to justify it with a tittle obtained by the mercy of

Srila Prabhupada.What Maharaja said is wrong. Never Srila Prabhupada ask

to anybody to educate people about demonology.

I agree with you; many of the world's culture are fragmentations of

vedic culture precisely for scattering it and finish it. What saints do

is to reunite what has been separated, as SP came to preach to the

mlecchas for a united vedic world in the 10 000 next years. His

instructions remain for the moment , are completely accurate and bona

fide for the actual context. You have the right to reject it but not to

using it in another hand to validate endless speculations .

Your servant Vrajananda das

deandddd a écrit :

>

> Vrajananda das,

>

> Your perspective seems off the mark to me. The context that we have

> here is that this is a list dedicated to showing that many of the

> world's cultures are fragmentations of Vedic culture. Of course we

> want to study those cultures with thye purpose of depicting them in

> this light.

>

> Those instructions by Shrila Prabhupada were issued a long time ago

> in a certain context. Were it not for this context, we would have no

> call to go studying the Bible.

>

> I encourage Bhakti Anand Goswami to offer us more explanations so

> that we can better understand the world around us in its connecto to

> our world Vedic culture.

>

> Dharmapada Dasa

>

> vediculture, YVES FRANCES <yves.frances@c...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Bhakti Ananda proclaimed :

> >

> > >

> > > HARE KRISHNA !

> > >

> > > SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA !

> > >

> > > DEAR VAISHNAVAS,

> > >

> > > PAMHO.

> > >

> > > HOW UNFORTUNATE THAT AFTER OVER 30 YEARS, NOT A SINGLE VAISHNAVA

> HAS

> > > TAKEN MY ADVISE SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY JUST LOOK UP THE

> ACTUAL

> > > SANSKRIT-GREEK COGNATES IN THE SEPTUAGINT, APOCRYPHA AND NEW

> > > TESTAMENT . INSTEAD YOU ALL JUST GO ON SPECULATING, AND IGNORING

> THE

> > > AUTHENTIC JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS.

> >

> > Vedic teachings are very clear about reincarnation . They're is no

> need

> > to follow your advice to understand this topic particularly when a

> > specific scripture is not perfectly authentic, if not revisited by

> > centuries of Council.

> > This judeo-centric conception of absolute truth is not exactly what

> > Srila Prabhupada or other great sages use to evoke for displaying

> > different features of karma , as birth and death.

> >

> > >

> > > PLEASE, AGAIN, I BEG YOU TO ACTUALLY CONSULT THESE GREEK JEWISH

> AND

> > > NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES, WHERE AMONG COUNTLESS OTHER PROFOUNDLY

> > > IMPORTANT JEWISH AND CATHOLIC CONNECTIONS TO VAISHNAVISM, YOU WILL

> > > FIND "KRIMA" AND RELATED WORDS FOR GOD'S JUDGMENT, EITHER

> FAVORABLE

> > > OR UNFAVORABLE, USED OVER 200 TIMES. (SEE KRIMA [KARMA], KRINO

> > > [KARMA], KATAKRIMA, KATAKRISIS, KRISIS [CRISIS, TRIAL TEST],

> > > KRITERION [CRITERIA ALSO], KRITES AND KRITIKOS [CRITIC, CRITICAL,

> > > JUDGING, JUDGMENTAL]

> >

> > There is no doubt of existing few similarities between Vedas and

> jewish

> > historiography but mainly vaisnavas give not great credit to the

> last.

> >

> > >

> > > IN MANY OF THESE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT GREEK 'OLD TESTAMENT',

> APOCRYPHA

> > > AND NEW TESTAMENT VERSES, THE WORD "KARMA" COULD BE EXCHANGED

> > > FOR "KRIMA" / "KRINO" ETC. WITH NO CHANGE IN THE VERSE'S

> TRADITIONAL

> > > JEWISH OR CATHOLIC MEANING AT ALL.

> >

> > Correct, all languages derive from prakrti, included hebrew ,

> greek and

> > many different mlecchas languages. This caractere is to transform

> words

> > and meanings for misappropriation . Similarly Srila Prabhupada'

> book

> > are regularly revisited and "enlarged" but " fortunately" much less

> > distributed than original copies.

> >

> > >

> > > PLEASE, I IMPLORE YOU TO SERIOUSLY TAKE UP THE STUDY OF THE GREEK

> > > JUDEO-CATHOLIC SHASTRAS OF MEDITERRANEAN RHODA-KOUROS (RADHA-

> KRISHNA)

> > > CENTRIC VAISHNAVISM.

> >

> > What a strange call for an Iskcon leader! Why don't you implore to

> read

> > Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam and book distribution?.

> >

> > > IN THIS TRADITION, THE 'SECOND PERSON' OF THE

> > > GODHEAD IS INCARNATE AS THE SERAPHIC GREAT PHYSICIAN, IASAS

> > > AESCLEPIUS, WHICH IS ANANTA BALARAMA IN HIS "HIDDEN INCARNATION"

> AS

> > > THE DIVINE NAGA-PHYSICIAN CARAKA (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE LATE

> > > COURT PHYSICIAN OF THE SAME NAME.)

> >

> > Aesclepios (literally meaning: lame) was certainly involved with

> > subterranean Nagas but has absolutely nothing to do with Balaram.

> He was

> > kicked out from the celestial abode and falling to the earth, he

> has

> > been curred from his injuries by the titan Centaur Chiron, his

> master,

> > with bear marrow in a submarine cave and taught him a kind of

> asuric

> > medicine, using poison , ancestor of the modern medicine.( I better

> > personally take shelter in Ayurveda). Later, Chiron as been killed

> by

> > Zeus's vajra for being a big demon. Sandipani Muni is the spiritual

> > master of Balaram and Krsna. Do you still feel part of Chiron

> sampradaya?

> > The snake of the caduceus, emblem of western medicine, refer to

> the

> > Nagaasuras,the use of venom for healing and not to Ananta Sesa.

> > Remember, brahmanical culture had big problem with the snakes, 3000

> > years BC and probably still has.

> > So you are speculating to the maximum extent of a polluted

> esoterism

> > rough approach never encouraged by Srila Prabhupada .

> >

> > >

> > > PLEASE STOP OUTSIDE SPECULATION AND THE STUDY OF LATE, CORRUPTED

> > > PROTESTANTISM, AND GO BACK TO THE EARLY HEBREW AND GREEK JEWISH

> AND

> > > CATHOLIC SCRIPTURES AND TRADITIONS.

> > >

> > > GODHEAD'S PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL,

> > >

> > > BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI

> >

> > Next time, will you teach us how vedas are deriving from Torah or

> > K'baal? You cannot be a representant of vedic culture with such

> > statements, Maharajah and your incomplete understanding of vedas as

> for

> > judeo-greek mythology you purposely mix with is not sufficient to

> > exhort people to follow your tri-decennial advice.

> > All your post is full of falsification. This is a sign of a

> confused

> > mind and I humbly urge you to rectify the situation before

> receiving the

> > unwanted reward in due course of time for polluting Iskcon and

> vedic

> > culture as many other bogus "gurus" got.

> > Your servant

> > Vrajananda das , Iskcon Revival Movement

>

March 10, 2005

REINCARNATION IN THE BIBLE

RESPONSE TO BEING ERRONEOUSLY CALLED AN "ISKCON LEADER", AND THE

PREPOSTEROUS CRITICISMS OF MY ASCLEPIUS RESEARCH

Message 6955 of 6957

YVES FRANCES <yves.frances@c...>

Mon Mar 7, 2005 10:41 am

Re: [world-vedic] Reincarnation in the Bible

Bhakti Ananda proclaimed :

>

> HARE KRISHNA !

>

> SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA !

>

> DEAR VAISHNAVAS,

>

> PAMHO.

>

> HOW UNFORTUNATE THAT AFTER OVER 30 YEARS, NOT A SINGLE VAISHNAVA HAS

> TAKEN MY ADVISE SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY JUST LOOK UP THE ACTUAL

> SANSKRIT-GREEK COGNATES IN THE SEPTUAGINT, APOCRYPHA AND NEW

> TESTAMENT . INSTEAD YOU ALL JUST GO ON SPECULATING, AND IGNORING THE

> AUTHENTIC JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SHASTRAS.

Vedic teachings are very clear about reincarnation . They're is no

need

to follow your advice to understand this topic

YOU ARE MISREPRESENTING MY ADVISE. IN MY ORIGINAL POST ABOUT THIS

SUBJECT, I WAS RESPONDING TO DHARMAPAD PRABHU'S QUESTION BELOW.

Message 6931

"Dean" <deandddd@u...>

Fri Mar 4, 2005 10:51 am

Reincarnation in the Bible

Can anyone pass some Bible verses on to me that suggest reincarnation?

Dharmapad

MY ADVISE WAS FOR DEVOTEES, WHO ARE ALREADY INQUIRING ABOUT OR

WRITING ABOUT THESE SUBJECTS, TO STOP SPECULATING ABOUT SUCH

TEACHINGS IN THE "BIBLE", AND TO GO DIRECTLY TO THE ANCIENT GREEK

SOURCES TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS ACTUALLY THERE. THE SEPTUAGINT AND

APOCRYPHA ARE WIDELY AVAILABLE IN THE ANCIENT GREEK, AND IN RELIABLE

INTERLINEAR TRANSLATIONS IN OTHER LANGUAGES FOR ANYONE WHO IS NOT

ABLE TO READ ANCIENT GREEK. THESE GREEK JEWISH SCRIPTURES SHARE

COMMON DEITY TITLES, THEOPHORIC NAMES AND RELIGIOUS TERM USAGES

WITH 'NEW TESTAMENT' CATHOLIC (EARLY APOSTOLIC CHRISTIAN)GREEK. ALL

OF THESE GREEK JUDEO-CATHOLIC SCRIPTURES ARE STILL EXTANT IN

AUTHENTICALLY ANCIENT COPIES AND PARTIAL COPIES, WHICH HAVE BEEN

EXHAUSTIVELY STUDIED FROM VARIOUS PERSPECTIVES FOR CENTURIES. THUS

EXCELLENT CONCORDANCES AND LEXICONS ARE AVAILABLE FOR THE ANALYSIS OF

THESE AUTHENTIC JUDEO-CATHOLIC SOURCE WORKS. FURTHERMORE NUMEROUS

ETYMOLOGICAL STUDIES HAVE BEEN DONE REVEALING IMPORTANT GREEK AND

SANSKRIT SO-CALLED 'INDO-EUROPEAN COGNATES'. THE PROBLEM IS THAT

BEFORE MY OWN 'BIBLICAL' GREEK AND KRISHNA-CENTRIC SANSKRIT

COMPARISONS THAT FOCUSED ON THE RELATED TRADITIONS OF RHODA-KOUROS

CENTERED MONOTHEISM IN THE MEDITERRANEAN AND SRI SRI RADHA-KRISHNA

CENTERED MONOTHEISM IN THE EAST, NO OTHER VAISHNAVA SCHOLAR HAD

ANALYZED THE SPECIFICALLY VAISHNAVA RELATED NAMES AND TERMS IN THE

JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SCRIPTURES. IF RADHA-KRISHNA CENTRIC VAISHNAVA

LINGUISTS WOULD SERIOUSLY STUDY THESE ANCIENT JEWISH AND CATHOLIC

GREEK SCRIPTURES, THEY WOULD RECOGNIZED THEM AS BEING CLOSELY RELATED

TO THE EASTERN VAISHNAVA TRADITION OF SRI SRI RADHA-KRISHNA. I HAVE

NEVER RECOMMENDED VAISHNAVAS IN GENERAL TO TAKE UP THE STUDY OF THE

ANCIENT JEWISH AND CATHOLIC SCRIPTURES IN THE GREEK.

I DID NOT RAISE THIS ISSUE ON VEDICULTURE, BUT SUGGESTED TO DHARMAPAD

PRABHU THAT INSTEAD OF "...some Bible verses on to me that suggest

reincarnation?" DIRECT REFERENCE TO THESE GREEK SCRIPTURES WOULD

PROVE VASTLY MORE HELPFUL, RESULTING IN HUNDREDS OF IMPORTANT

CONNECTIONS. I SUGGESTED A PLACE TO START, WITH THE GREEK

WORD "KRIMA", WHICH IS RELATED TO SANSKRIT "KARMA".

MAHESH PRABHU CONTRIBUTED AN IMPORTANT NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCE

RELEVANT TO THE SUBJECT. NEITHER DHARMAPAD OR MAHESH HAS BEEN

CHASTISED BY YOU FOR THEIR APPARENT INTEREST IN, OR STUDY OF

THE 'BIBLE'.

Message 6932 of 6958

"Mahesh" <mahesh@a...>

Fri Mar 4, 2005 2:49 pm

Re: [world-vedic] Reincarnation in the Bible

...."If it helps.....I came across this---somewhere long time ago--

someone mentioned to me Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura gave

this type reply about the **born blind ** quote regards

reincarnation in Bible-- but I do not know if this is true or not.

Read the following:

Jesus was walking with his disciples.

In John 9:1-2

As he went, he saw a blind man from birth. His disciples asked

him "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born

blind?"

[ETC.]

YOU HAVE REPEATED THE IRRELEVANT CHARGE THAT

"... particularly when a specific scripture is not perfectly

authentic, if not revisited by

centuries of Council."

, WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A STUDY OF THE AUTHENTIC

INTERTESTAMENTAL JUDEO-CATHOLIC GREEK SOURCES. BEYOND THESE EXTANT

GREEK LITERATURES, WE HAVE COUNTLESS INSCRIPTIONS, NUMISMATIC, AND

OTHER ANCIENT SOURCES OF GREEK TO STUDY FROM THE BACTRIAN ERA OF

NORTH WEST INDIA TO EUROPE AND NORTH AFRICA. I ASSERT THAT OVER

MILLENNIA THE ASCETIC HEBREWS, ISRAELITES AND JEWS WERE IN RELIGIOUS

ALLIANCES WITH THE ASCETIC GREEK WORSHIPERS OF HELIOS (ELI-YAHU)

KOUROS AND RHODA, AND THEIR HIEROPHANT BAL-THEOS, ON THE SACRED ISLE

OF RHODES, AND THAT THIS SAME TRADITION IN INDIA WAS THE WORSHIP OF

SRI SRI RADHA-KRISHNA AND BALADEVA.

This judeo-centric conception of absolute truth is not exactly what

Srila Prabhupada or other great sages use to evoke for displaying

different features of karma , as birth and death.

WHY WOULD THE GREAT SAGES OF ONE LINEAGE UNNECESSARILY GO OUTSIDE OF

THEIR TRAINING TO STUDY AND REPRESENT THE TEACHINGS OF ANOTHER

LINEAGE? HOW COULD THEY ACCURATELY REPRESENT ANOTHER LINEAGE UNLESS

THEY WERE ALSO TRAINED AND QUALIFIED IN THE OTHER LINEAGE? WHY WOULD

VAISHNAVA ACARYAS PREACHING EXCLUSIVELY INSIDE OF INDIA TO 'HINDUS'

AND 'MUSLIMS' BECOME EXPERTS IN 'OLD TESTAMENT' APOCRYPHAL AND 'NEW

TESTAMENT' GREEK?

NOW, HOWEVER, DUE TO OUR GAUDIYA LINEAGE ACARYAS' HEROIC EFFORTS,

ESPECIALLY SRILA PRABHUPADA'S INCOMPARABLE MISSIONARY ACTIVITIES,

KRISHNA-CENTRIC VAISHNAVISM HAS EMERGED FROM MODERN INDIA AND

ENCOUNTERED THE JUDEO-CATHOLIC AND RELATED BUT SEPARATED CHRISTIAN

TRADITION ON ITS OWN HISTORIC TERRITORY. THIS BEGINS A NEW

OPPORTUNITY FOR DIALOGUE AND UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE LEADERS AND

SCHOLARS OF THESE TRADITIONS. SUCH A DIALOGUE CANNOT BE BASED ON

PREJUDICIAL SPECULATION OR THE STUDY OF LATE, CORRUPT OR EVEN

FICTITIOUS 'NEW AGE' 'SOURCES'. TO UNDERSTAND THE GREAT EASTERN

KRISHNA-CENTRIC BHAKTI TRADITIONS, ONE MUST STUDY THEIR AUTHENTIC

GURU SHASTRA AND SADHU LINEAGES. TO UNDERSTAND THE GREAT 'WESTERN'

ELI-YAHU KOUROS-CENTRIC BHAKTI TRADITIONS, THE SAME PRINCIPLE

APPLIES. I AM MERELY SUPPORTING THE PRINCIPLE OF UNDERSTANDING A

TRADITION, BY STUDYING THE AUTHENTIC ANCIENT SOURCES AND HONORING THE

SAINTS AND LIVING AUTHORITIES OF THE TRADITION, INSTEAD OF JUST

SPECULATING ABOUT IT FROM OUTSIDE AND INAUTHENTIC 'EVIDENCE' OR EVEN

LATE AND HOSTILE OUTSIDE COMMENTATORS.

>

> PLEASE, AGAIN, I BEG YOU TO ACTUALLY CONSULT THESE GREEK JEWISH AND

> NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES, WHERE AMONG COUNTLESS OTHER PROFOUNDLY

> IMPORTANT JEWISH AND CATHOLIC CONNECTIONS TO VAISHNAVISM, YOU WILL

> FIND "KRIMA" AND RELATED WORDS FOR GOD'S JUDGMENT, EITHER FAVORABLE

> OR UNFAVORABLE, USED OVER 200 TIMES. (SEE KRIMA [KARMA], KRINO

> [KARMA], KATAKRIMA, KATAKRISIS, KRISIS [CRISIS, TRIAL TEST],

> KRITERION [CRITERIA ALSO], KRITES AND KRITIKOS [CRITIC, CRITICAL,

> JUDGING, JUDGMENTAL]

There is no doubt of existing few similarities between Vedas and

jewish

historiography

IF YOU ONLY KNOW OF A "few similarities", THEN YOU HAVE A PROFOUNDLY

POOR FUND OF KNOWLEDGE ON THE SUBJECT, AND YOU ARE THUS COMPLETELY

UNQUALIFIED TO SPEAK OR WRITE ON THE SUBJECT.

but mainly vaisnavas give not great credit to the last.

THAT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE MAINLY UNEDUCATED OR MALEDUCATED REGARDING

THE JUDEO-CATHOLIC TRADITION.

>

> IN MANY OF THESE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT GREEK 'OLD TESTAMENT',

APOCRYPHA

> AND NEW TESTAMENT VERSES, THE WORD "KARMA" COULD BE EXCHANGED

> FOR "KRIMA" / "KRINO" ETC. WITH NO CHANGE IN THE VERSE'S TRADITIONAL

> JEWISH OR CATHOLIC MEANING AT ALL.

Correct, all languages derive from prakrti, included hebrew , greek

and

many different mlecchas languages. This caractere is to transform

words

and meanings for misappropriation .

IS THIS A CHARGE OF ILL-MOTIVATED "misappropriation" AGAINST ENTIRE

PEOPLES? WHY MUST YOU ATTACK THE CHARACTER AND MOTIVATION OF ENTIRE

PEOPLES, WHICH YOU APPARENTLY KNOW LITTLE OR NOTHING ABOUT?

Similarly Srila Prabhupada' book

are regularly revisited and "enlarged" but " fortunately" much less

distributed than original copies.

NOW YOU ARE SUGGESTING SIMILARITIES TO THE EDITORIAL REVISIONS OF

SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BOOKS. THERE IS NO SIMILARITY BETWEEN THE NATURAL

AND DYNAMIC EXISTENCE OF LIVING LANGUAGE FAMILIES AND THEIR BRANCHES,

AND THE EDITORIAL CHANGES MADE TO SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BOOKS. PERHAPS

YOU THINK THAT 'THE BIBLE' AS YOU KNOW IT HAS BEEN RUINED BY SUCH

ALTERATIONS. FOR YOU THIS IS THE INAUTHENTIC LITERATURE CHANGED

BY "CENTURIES OF COUNCIL", AS YOU HAVE CHARGED ABOVE. "...when a

specific scripture is not perfectly authentic, if not revisited by

centuries of Council." HOWEVER, THE CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH

FLOURISHED IN ITS EARLY CENTERS AT JERUSALEM, EDESSA, BYZANTIUM, ROME

AND ALEXANDRIA, AND EACH OF THESE CENTERS HAD THEIR OWN APOSTOLIC

AUTHORITIES, RITES, LITANY OF SAINTS / MASTERS AND CANON OF SACRED

SCRIPTURE AND COMMENTARY / TRADITIONAL LITERATURE, IN DIFFERENT

LANGUAGES. THUS THE SCRIPTURAL HERITAGE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS NOT

JUST IN GREEK OR LATIN, BUT IN THE LANGUAGES OF THESE OTHER CENTERS

AS WELL. FOR EXAMPLE THE LANGUAGE OF EGYPTIAN CATHOLICISM (THE RITE

OF SAINT MARK OF ALEXANDRIA) IS COPTIC. THIS RITE (RITYA LINEAGE)

SPREAD TO ETHIOPIA, WHERE THE SCRIPTURES WERE IN GEEZ. THE SCRIPTURES

TRANSMITTED THROUGH THE OTHER CATHOLIC RITES / APOSTOLIC LINEAGES

ALSO APPEARED IN DIFFERENT LANGUAGES. HOWEVER, IN SPITE OF ALL OF

THIS DIFFERENCE, THERE WAS ALWAYS A TRANSCENDENT UNITY IN THE

DIVERSITY OF THE CATHOLIC COMMUNION. IF YOU ARE DRAWING AN ANALOGY

BETWEEN CATHOLIC HISTORY AND ISKCON HISTORY, THERE IS NO COMPARISON.

HOWEVER, SOME OF THE PROTESTANT 'REFORMERS' DID SUBSTANTIALLY CHANGE

THEIR VERSION OF THE 'BIBLE' IN ORDER TO BRING IT INTO ALIGNMENT WITH

THEIR OWN DOCTRINES. THAT IS WHY I RECOMMEND STUDYING THE EARLIEST

TEXTS AVAILABLE IN THE VARIOUS CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC LINEAGES.

YOU SEEM HOSTILE TO ME FOR NO GOOD REASON. FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE

DISTRIBUTED MANY OF SRILA PRABHUPADA'S ORIGINAL BOOKS, AND AS A

TEXTUAL SCHOLAR AND HISTORIAN OF RELIGION, I HAVE NEVER APPROVED OF

REDACTING AND REPUBLISHING ANY UNAUTHORIZED VERSIONS OF ANY WORK

UNDER THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR'S NAME. IF SUBSEQUENT EDITIONS NEED TYPOS

CORRECTED, ADDITIONS OR COMMENT, THESE SHOULD BE ADDED SEPARATELY AS

FOOTNOTES, SET COMPLETELY APART FROM THE ORIGINAL TEXT, AND CLEARLY

IDENTIFIED AS THE WORK OR REMARKS OF THE DIFFERENT EDITOR OR

COMMENTATOR.

> PLEASE, I IMPLORE YOU TO SERIOUSLY TAKE UP THE STUDY OF THE GREEK

> JUDEO-CATHOLIC SHASTRAS OF MEDITERRANEAN RHODA-KOUROS (RADHA-

KRISHNA)

> CENTRIC VAISHNAVISM.

What a strange call for an Iskcon leader!

I AM A DISCIPLE OF SRILA PRABHUPADA, AND I AM A SANNYASI, BUT I AM

NOT EVEN AN "ISKCON" MEMBER, WHAT TO SPEAK OF AN "Iskcon leader"!

APPARENTLY YOU DO NOT BOTHER TO UNDERSTAND THE FIRST THING ABOUT

SOMEONE BEFORE YOU PRE-JUDGE THEM AND LASH-OUT AT THEM FOR SOME

IMAGINED STATUS, ATTITUDE OR OFFENCE.

Why don't you implore to read

Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam and book distribution?.

WHY DO YOU ASSUME THAT I DO NOT???

HOW CAN ANYONE MAKE THE ANCIENT GREEK-JUDEO-CATHOLIC-VAISHNAVA

COMPARISONS THAT I AM ENCOURAGING THE STUDY OF, WITHOUT REFERRING TO

THE BHAGAVAD-GITA AS IT IS, AND THE SRIMAD BHAGAVATAM? HOW CAN

ANYONE GET THESE BOOKS IN THEIR LANGUAGES, WITH THE SANSKRIT TO

COMPARE, WITHOUT RECOURSE TO SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BOOKS?

> IN THIS TRADITION, THE 'SECOND PERSON' OF THE

> GODHEAD IS INCARNATE AS THE SERAPHIC GREAT PHYSICIAN, IASAS

> AESCLEPIUS, WHICH IS ANANTA BALARAMA IN HIS "HIDDEN INCARNATION" AS

> THE DIVINE NAGA-PHYSICIAN CARAKA (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE LATE

> COURT PHYSICIAN OF THE SAME NAME.)

Aesclepios (literally meaning: lame)