SOULS ORIGIN

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SOULS ORIGIN

91-05-14 Letter to: Unknown Unknown Place Unknown Date

Crow And Tal-Fruit Logic

We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. Just like one man

is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different

forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as

seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over,

the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original

position.

Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many

relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense

gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there. There

is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and creating an atmosphere for

enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water

covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like

that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As

soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we

sleep, dream is there.

We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become

Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. FORMERLY WE WERE WITH KRSNA IN HIS

LILA OR SPORT. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long

duration, therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long

period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long

duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna

consciousness. Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon

as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like

with Krsna's friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when

they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment

had passed.

So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a

dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon

as we come to Krsna consciousness then this period is considered as a second.

For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their lila with Krsna, but they had to

come down for their little mistake. They were given mukti, emerging into the

Brahmasayujya after being killed three times as demons. This Brahmasayujya

mukti is non-permanent. Every living entity wants pleasure, but Brahmasayujya

is minus pleasure. There is eternal existence only. So when they do not find

transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss.

Just like Vivekananda founded so many schools and hospitals. So even Lord

Brahma, he is still material and wants to lord it over. He may come down to

become a germ, but then he may rise up to Krsna consciousness and go back to

home, back to Godhead. This is the position.

So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence

of Jaya-Vijaya. Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he goes

up only up to Brahmasayujya but falls down. But after millions and millions of

years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to

Krsna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.

BECAUSE HE FALLS DOWN FROM BRAHMASAYUJYA, HE THINKS THAT MAY BE HIS ORIGIN, BUT

HE DOES NOT REMEMBER THAT BEFORE THAT EVEN HE WAS WITH KRSNA. So the conclusion

is that whatever may be our past, let us come to Krsna consciousness and

immediately join Krsna. Just like with a diseased man, it is a waste of time to

try to find out how he has become diseased, better to spend time curing the

disease.

On the top of the tree there is a nice tal-fruit. A crow went there and the

fruit fell down, Some panditas, big big learned scholars saw this and

discussed: the fruit fell due to the crow agitating the limb. No, the fruit

fell simultaneously with the crow landing and frightened the crow so he flew

away. No, the fruit was ripe and the weight of the crow landing broke it from

the branch, and so on and so on. What is the use of such discussions? So

whether you were in the Brahmasayujya or with Krsna in His lila, at the moment

you are in neither, so the best policy is to develop your Krsna consciousness

and go there, never mind what is your origin.

Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila--both may be possible, but when you are coming down

from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a

mystery. But at the present moment we are in Maya's clutches, so at present our

only hope is to become Krsna conscious and go back to Home, back to Godhead. The

real position is servant of Krsna, and servant of Krsna means in Krsna lila.

Directly or indirectly, always we are serving Krsna's lila. Even in dream. Just

like we cannot go out of the sun when it is daytime, so where is the chance of

going out of Krsna lila? The cloud may be there, it may become very gray and

dim, but still the sunlight is there, everywhere, during the daytime. Because I

am part and parcel of Krsna, I am always connected. My finger, even though it

may be diseased, remains part and parcel of my body. Therefore, we try to treat

it, cure it, because it is part and parcel. So Krsna comes Himself when we

forget Him, or He sends His representative.

Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I

see Krsna. Cause and effect are both Krsna. Just like cotton becomes thread and

thread becomes cloth, still, the original cause is cotton. Therefore, everything

is Krsna in the ultimate sense. When we cannot contact Krsna personally, we

contact His energies. So there is no chance to be outside Krsna's lila. But

differences we see under different conditions. Just like in the pool of water

and in the mirror the same me is reflecting, but in different reflections. One

is shimmering, unsteady, one is clear and fixed. Except for being in Krsna

consciousness, we cannot see our actual position rightly, therefore the learned

man sees all living entities as the same parts and parcels of Krsna. Material

existence is impersonal because my real personality is covered. But we should

think that because I am now covered by this clay, I am diseased, and we should

think that I must get to business to get myself uncovered, not wonder how I got

this way. Now the fruit is there, take it and enjoy, that is your first

business. God is not bound by cause. He can change, He is the Cause of all

Causes. Now don't waste your time with this "Kaka taliya nyaya," crows and

tal-fruit logic.

760708ed.wdc ConversationsPrabhupada: Whatever it may be, the

falldown is there. So because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as

Krsna, THEREFORE WE MAY FALL DOWN FROM VAIKUNTHA AT ANY MOMENT. ICCHA-DVESA

SAMUTTHENA SARGE YANTI PARANTAPA. FIND OUT THIS VERSE.Pusta Krsna:

iccha-dvesa samutthena dvandva-mohena bharata

sarva-bhutani sammoham sarge yanti parantapa

"O scion of Bharata [Arjuna], O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are

born into delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate."Prabhupada:

Purport.Pusta Krsna: "The real constitutional position of the living entity is

that of subordination to the Supreme Lord, who is pure knowledge. When one is

deluded into separation from this pure knowledge, he becomes controlled by

illusory energy and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The

illusory energy is manifested in the duality of desire and hate. Due to desire

and hate the ignorant person wants to become one with the Supreme Lord and

envies Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Pure devotees, who are not

so deluded or contaminated by desire and hate, can understand that Lord Sri

Krsna appears by His internal potencies. But those who are deluded by duality

and nescience think that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is created by

material energies. This is their misfortune. Such deluded persons

symptomatically dwell in dualities of dishonor and honor, misery and happiness,

woman and man, good and bad, pleasure and pain, etc.,thinking 'This is my wife,

this is my house; I am the master of this house, I am the husband of this

wife.' These are the dualities of delusion. Those who are so deluded by

dualities are completely foolish and cannot understand the Supreme Personality

of Godhead."Prabhupada: So even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that "Why shall I

serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down. That is natural. A

servant is serving the master, sometimes he may think that "If I could become

the master." They are thinking like that, they are trying to become God. That

is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's wrongly

thinking.Vipina: Why doesn't Krsna protect us from that desire?Prabhupada: He's

protecting. He says, "You rascal, don't desire, surrender unto Me." But you are

rascal, you do not do this.

Vipina: Why doesn't He save me from thinking like that?Prabhupada: That means

you lose your independence.Vipina: And no love.Prabhupada: That is force.

(indistinct) prema. In Bengali it is said "If you catch one girl or boy, 'You

love me, you love me, you love me.' " Is it love? (laughter) "You love me,

otherwise I will kill you." (laughter) Is that love? So Krsna does not want to

become a lover like that, on the point of revolver, "You love me, otherwise I

shall kill you." That is not love, that is threatening. Love is reciprocal,

voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love, not by force. That is

rape. The... Why one is called lover, another is called rape?69-07-24.

Letter: Rupanuga Regarding your question, "what is the difference between the

spirit souls comprising the Brahmajyoti and the spirit souls here in Maya?", in

the Brahmajyoti the spirit souls on account of their impersonal views are

devoid of a body, exactly like here in Maya there are ghosts who are devoid of

any gross bodies. The ghost being devoid of a body, he suffers terribly because

he is unable to satisfy his senses. The spirit souls in the Brahmajyoti,

although they have no desire for sense gratification, still they feel

inconvenience like the ghost, and they fall down again in the Maya's atmosphere

and develop a material body. In the Bhagavat therefore it is said that persons

who are impersonalists and do not develop the dormantdevotional attitude, their

intelligence is not pure, because for want of aspiritual body, they come down

again to the material world. In theBhagavad-gita it is clearly said by the lord

that the only way of not comingback to the material world is to be promoted to

the spiritual planets. forthe impersonalists there is no such assurance of not

falling down in thewhole vedic literature. The conclusion is that without

developing thespiritual body and without being situated on one of the spiritual

planets,the so-called liberation is also illusion, or it is not complete. A

SPIRITSOUL WHO FALLS DOWN FROM THE BRAHMAJYOTI TO THE KINGDOM OF MAYA MAY HAVE

A CHANCE OF ASSOCIATING WITH A PURE DEVOTEE, AND THEN HE MAY BE ELEVATED TO THE

SPIRITUAL PLANETS OF VAIKUNTHA OR TO GOLOKA VRINDABAN. FROM THE BRAHMAJYOTI

THERE IS NO DIRECT PROMOTION TO THE SPIRITUAL PLANETS, AND IT IS CLEARLY STATED

IN THE BHAGAVATAM THAT SUCH SOULS FALL DOWN: PATANTY ADHA.70-02-27. Letter:

Jagadisa Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into

Maya'sinfluence, it is not that those who have developed a passive

relationshipwith Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities.

USUALLY ANYONEWHO HAS DEVELOPED HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH KRSNA DOES NOT FALL DOWN

IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, BUT BECAUSE THE INDEPENDENCE IS ALWAYS THERE, THE SOUL MAY

FALL DOWN FROM ANY POSITION OR ANY RELATIONSHIP BY MISUSING HIS INDEPENDENCE.

BUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH KRSNA IS NEVER LOST, SIMPLY IT IS FORGOTTEN BY THE

INFLUENCE OF MAYA, SO IT MAY BE REGAINED OR REVIVED BY THE PROCESS OF HEARING

THE HOLY NAME OF KRSNA AND THEN THE DEVOTEE ENGAGES HIMSELF IN THE SERVICE OF

THE LORD WHICH IS HIS ORIGINAL OR CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION. THE RELATIONSHIP OF

THE LIVING ENTITY WITH KRSNA IS ETERNAL ASBOTH KRSNA AND THE LIVING ENTITY ARE

ETERNAL; THE PROCESS IS ONE OF REVIVAL ONLY, NOTHING NEW.70-04-25. Letter:

Jagadisa Regarding your questions about how and from where did the

conditionedsouls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with

LordKrsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? THE SOULS ARE ENDOWED

WITHMINUTE INDEPENDENCE AS PART OF THEIR NATURE AND THIS MINUTE INDEPENDENCE

MAY BE UTILIZED RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY AT ANY TIME, SO THERE IS ALWAYS THE CHANCE

OF FALLING DOWN BY MISUSE OF ONE'S INDEPENDENCE. BUT THOSE WHO ARE FIRMLY FIXED

UP IN DEVOTIONAL SERVICE TO KRSNA ARE MAKING PROPER USE OF THEIR INDEPENDENCE

AND SO THEY DO NOT FALL DOWN.67-08-27. Letter: Jananivasa The Spirit Soul is

certainly eternal and changeless; and the fall issuperficial, just like the

relation between father and son cannot be brokenever. Now we are simply in a

phase of forgetfulness, and this forgetfulnessis called Maya. There is a nice

example in the waning of the moon. To usethe moon appears to be changing, but

in fact the moon is always the same. Soas ETERNAL SERVITORS OF KRISHNA--OUR

CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION--WE FALL DOWN WHEN WE TRY TO BECOME THE ENJOYER,

IMITATING KRISHNA. That is our downfall. Krishna is the Supreme Enjoyer, and we

are constitutionally to be enjoyed byHim, and when we revive this constitutional

position where is no more Maya.K.C. gives us the opportunity of rendering

service to Krishna, and thisservice attitude only can replace us on our

original position. Pleasetherefore, continue to chant faithfully, and Krishna

will reveal Himself, byHis Causeless Mercy, and you will know everything

automatically. I shall, ofcourse always be ready and anxious to answer any

question you have. 69-06-07. Letter: Uttamasloka Please accept my blessings.

I am very glad to receive your letter (undated), and I have noted the contents

that you had left the temple but now you have returned again. This is most

encouraging, because it means that Krishna is very kind upon you. Although you

left Him, He did not allow you to go away. It is His special favor upon you. As

individuals there may be disagreement sometimes, but that is quite natural. Even

in ordinary family affairs there is sometimes disagreement, but that does not

mean immediately the disagreeing members shall leave the family. Similarly our

Krishna Consciousness Movement means we are all gathering together in families

of Krishna. ACTUALLY WE ARE ETERNAL FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE LORD, BUT DUE TO OUR

MISUSE OF INDEPENDENCE WE HAVE NOW FORGOTTEN OUR ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP WITH

KRISHNA, EXACTLY LIKE A MAN WHO IS MAD FORGETS HIS FAMILY RELATIONSHIP AND

LOITERS IN THE STREET. But when he is again in his normal mental condition, he

remembers his family members and goes back to them. Similarly this Krishna

Consciousness Movement is a treatment for reviving the memory that we all

belong to Krishna's family. So we are trying to establish a replica of

Krishna's family in this material world wherein there is no material

activities. To avoid the material activities means to follow the four

regulative principles and to engage ourselves constantly in Krishna

Consciousness activities and to have the association of pure devotees. We

should not give indulgence to our senses more than what is required just to

keep body and soul together. We should not engage ourselves in very difficult

tasks, and we should not talk anything more than what is necessary for

spreading Krishna Consciousness. We should follow the regulative principles,

regard being had to situation, circumstances and objectives. We should not be

greedy and we should not mix with persons not interested in Krishna. In this

way, we can make steady progress and maintain our membership in Krishna's

family. Thus, at the end of this life we will enter actually into the spiritual

world. So your main business should be to spread Sankirtana, becoming tolerant

as the tree and becoming humbler than the grass. If you have anytime any

difficulty, please try to settle up in the above way, but do not leave the

company of devotees. That will not help you, even though there may seem to be

some difficulties.740606BG.GEN Lectures Just like father

gives some capital to the son: "You do some business." Now, you lose the money

or increase it hundred times; that depends on you. Similarly, Krsna has given

us. We wanted to enjoy this material world, and Krsna has given us. THE FIRST

BEGINNING BODY IS BRAHMA, VERY EXALTED BODY. BUT ON ACCOUNT OF OUR ABOMINABLE

ACTIVITIES, FROM BRAHMA, WE COME DOWN TO BECOME THE WORM OF STOOL. This is

called karma, ksetra.

"Bg Introduction

Arjuna was in a relationship with the Lord as friend. Of course there is a gulf

of difference between this friendship and the friendship found in the material

world. This is transcendental friendship which cannot be had by everyone. Of

course everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that

relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the

present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we

have FORGOTTEN OUR ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP with the Lord. Every living being, out

of many, many billions and trillions of living beings, has a particular

relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called SVARUPA. By the process of

devotional service, one can REVIVE THAT SVARUPA, and that stage is called

svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position. So Arjuna was a

devotee, and he was in touch with the Supreme Lord in friendship.

Note: the Gaudiya math’s Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, Puri maharaja etc

cannot accept Srila Prabhupada even when Srila Prabhupada has quoted Chaitanya

Mahaprabhu:KRSNERA 'NITYA-dasa': "Every living entity is CONSTITUTIONALLY an

ETERNAL SERVANT of Krsna. The soul was NITYA(eternally) serving Krsna KRSNERA

'NITYA-dasa in lila(sport) with Krsna: but they OPPOSE Srila Prabhupada by

stating BRAHMAJYOTI is the actual origin of the soul. This shows Srila

Prabhupada is REALIZED Mahabhagavata whereas Gaudiya matha camp is a bunch of

mental speculators.

 

SB 4.29.36-37 P Talks Between Narada and King Pracinabarhi

Bhakti refers to those activities performed in the service of Lord Vasudeva.

Because Lord Vasudeva is the Supreme, one should engage oneself in His service,

not in the service of the demigods. Devotional service begins from the neophyte

stage--the stage of observing the rules and regulations--and extends to the

point of spontaneous loving service to the Lord. The purpose of all stages is

to satisfy Lord Vasudeva. When one is perfectly advanced in the devotional

service of Vasudeva, one becomes completely detached from the service of the

body, that is, his designated position in material existence. After becoming so

detached, one becomes actually perfect in knowledge and engages perfectly in the

service of Lord Vasudeva. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, JIVERA 'SVARUPA'

HAYA--KRSNERA 'NITYA-DASA': "Every living entity is BY CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION

AN ETERNAL SERVANT OF KRSNA." As soon as one engages in the service of Lord

Vasudeva, he attains his normal constitutional position. This position is

called the liberated stage. Muktir hitvanyatha-rupam svarupena vyavasthitih: in

the liberated stage, one is situated in his original Krsna conscious position.

He gives up all engagements in the service of matter, engagements concocted

under the names of social service, national service, community service, dog

service, automobile service and so many other services conducted under the

illusion of "I" and mine.