Hindu's don't want to spend the money, so we lose RE: [world-vedic] Missionary attempts to distort Indian History

[Guest guest]

Nov 27, 2004Dear Raghu

Namaste,

Thanks

for proposing a real strategy. Please join usto further advance the common cause

for the educating common masses, therefore I invite you to join WORLD

ASSOCIATION FOR VEDIC STUDIES (WAVES )A ACADAMIC + Non acedamic people in usa,.

I will also mail the copy of this e-mail to Prof. Bhudev Sharma President of

WAVES, so yo umay be made aware of our progress.

Thanks

Deen B Chandora

>"Raghu" <raghu (AT) roopa (DOT) org>

>vediculture

><vediculture>

>CC: <VFA-members>

>Hindu's don't want to spend the money, so we lose RE: [world-vedic]

Missionary attempts to distort Indian History

>Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:56:54 -1000

>

>After reading this post, I appreciated the problem we have as a community.

>We're cheap. We don't want to spend the money as a community.

>

>

>

>We have academics who tirelessly toile for decades at great occupational

>peril and personal and financial sacrifice as we see in hundreds of examples

>on this forum alone. We have sadhu's, practitioners, preachers, youth, new

>comers and home makers all willing and actively doing the same. But until we

>have the kinds of resources that would allow us to organize a similar

>prolonged, tightly coordinated international effort tapping and utilizing

>each of the thousands of participants in a clearly defined role and context

>as we see of the Christian Muslim effort, we will only be left to the sing

>to the wind of the internet.

>

>

>

>The missionary's effort is a multi-tier, multi-pronged, decade's long

>program that is well funded and smoothly organized to coordinate thousands

>simultaneously in a powerful coalition that concentrates its global reach

>into a single effort. Until Hindu's as a community are willing and able to

>spend the money to tap the extraordinary talent and dedication, we are in

>large measure wasting our time.

>

>

>

>Rather then this piecemeal response almost clumsily thrown together from a

>half dozen grossly over extended hard core members, let's instead put

>together a list of a minimum of 5,000 person strong aremy of academics,

>activist, religious practitioners and others that would serve clearly

>defined focus groups to tackle predefined issues, time tables and geographic

>regions. Then let's draw up the budget necessary to make it happen-sky's the

>limit. Then let's go out and raise the funds. Implementing this would would

>shift these other goups own confidence and change the tone of this and many

>other discussions.

>

>

>

>In short, the issue is not so much what these other groups are doing as it

>is what we are not doing. They are setting the terms of the debate because

>they are simply more committed by way of resources and coordination. Who

>ever is most committed wins. That includes a commitment of money.For us,

>it's not a matter of man power, expertise or dedication. We have that. It's

>all about coordination and money at this point.

>

>

>

>It's time to put together a sponsor list. We have to approach India's

>millionaires and billionaires. They need to commit their capital by way of

>manpower, financial resource and social clout to this cause much as the

>academics and activist have done and much as Christian and Muslim

>millionaires and billionaires are doing. Until we take things to this level,

>we are not acting as a community. Rather, we are a disenfranchised splinter

>of different groups to a dispersed community held on bonds more from a past

>then a future. That is how we appear and that is the impact of our efforts.

>We have to change this if we are serious about changing the mounting peril

>being assembled by the enemies of all indeginious cultures.

>

>

>

>Raghu

_____

>

>Vrin Parker [vrinparker (AT) (DOT) co.in]

>Tuesday, November 16, 2004 2:02 AM

>vediculture

>[world-vedic] Missionary attempts to distort Indian History

>

>

>wagle (AT) mail (DOT) holyname.org wrote:

>

>Fw: Missionary attempts to distort Indian History

>vrinparker (AT) (DOT) co.in,

>kavindra (AT) telus (DOT) net

>wagle (AT) mail (DOT) holyname.org

>Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:38:45 -0500

>

>Dear Vrin and Jeffrey,

>Could you pls forward this to other members of Vedic Friends? By the way, I

>have still not received a response to my application to become a member of

>VFA.

>This situation with the Missionaries conference next year is scary!! Any

>thoughts as to how we can counter this move on their part?

>=================================================

>

>----- Forwarded by Sharad Wagle/HNH on 11/08/2004 04:30 PM -----

>

>Sharad Wagle/HNH

>

>11/08/2004 04:30 To

>PM indicjournalists

>cc

>indicjournalists

>Subject

>Re: Missionary attempts to distort

>Indian History(Document link:

>Sharad Wagle)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>The event planned for 2005 mentioned in the announcement below is a part

>of what has been going on as a massive organized and well funded program

>to rewrite history, so as to show that Hinduism was derived from early

>Christianity.

>

>Stage 1 of making Hinduism illegitimate was to show that Hinduism

>originated in British colonial times. But many items could not be

>explained

>as they were earlier. Stage 2 was to show that these came from islam -

>such

>as bhakti.

>

>Stage 3 is now to go even deeper and show how early Christianity brought

>even those aspects that Muslims or British did not.

>

>A scholar in charge of the 15 volume Mahabharata project of which half

>the volumes are done already, made the statement that Gita should be

>dated at around 5th century CE. (This in my opinion gives them enough

>time to make it fit into the Christian origins of Gita.) He said that

>Gita was grafted into what was a violence prone religion, just to make

>Mahabharata look mild and ethical. This is far more insidious than the

>Aryan invasion theory.

>

>So the strategy is grand and long term. Look at the way mentioned in the

>announcement they have divided into teams with plans etc. Look at the

>list

>of topics at the end into which they organized the work to be done. THEY

>MEAN BUSINESS. They do have enormous library archives as Christian

>institutions took control over most documents and never returned them.

>Access is also limited to insiders in many instances and/or at very

>heavy

>fees which Indian scholars cannot afford.

>

>In contrast with clarity of purpose and concreteness of plans, Hindus

>scholars (the very few that are there) are lost in nostalgia and

>chauvinist

>optimism about 5,000 years old invincibility via mantras, and other

>lofty

>baloney.

>

>The role of the Indian Government over the years or at least its

>complicity is horrifying. The institute named below which is doing this

>is The Institute of Asian Studies. It is affiliated to the University of

>Madras and to Pondicherry University for conducting research programmes

>leading to Ph.D. degrees and is recognized by the University Grants

>Commission of the Government of India.

>

>WHY IS THERE NO PUBLIC INTEREST LITIGATION IN INDIA TO FORCE THE

>GOVERNMENT TO ENSURE EQUAL ACCESS BY OPPOSING SCHOLARS TO ALL THE

>ARCHIVAL DOCUMENTS THESE MISSIONARIES WILL UTILIZE? WHY NOT A MECHANISM

>TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD AT THIS NASCENT STAGE?

>

>Please suggest ways to counter and put a full stop to this missionary

>attempt to distort Indian History.

>

>There is no integrated set up to defend Hindus at the level of

>conferences, seminars and proceedings, where much is done by the enemies

>of

>Hinduism .

>

>Missionaries have a corporate set up, and are able to organise

>themselves.

>Now they are carrying the distortion into the heart of American

>financial

>capital - New York .

>

>

>Please visit www hamsa.org first - to have full grasp of the subject

>

>http://www.xlweb.com/heritage/asian/christianity-conference.htm

>

>

>

>FIRST INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE / SEMINAR ON THE HISTORY OF EARLY

>CHRISTIANITY IN INDIA

>

>

>(From the advent of St. Thomas to Vasco de Gama)

>

>

>(13th - 16th August 2005 in New York)

>

>

>The history of Christianity in India is traceable to the

>advent

>of St. Thomas soon after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. But this has

>been

>a subject of controversy for a long time owing to lack of

>documentary

>evidences. Now, we are able to get lot of evidences both internal

>and

>external to testify to the existence early Christianity in India from

>the

>period of St. Thomas.

>

>History in early India is different from history as

>conceived

>in Europe and other countries. There was no pure historical document in

>India with chronological details and whatever is available as ancient

>historical documents are a blending of historical facts with fictional

>elements. Literatures were the main sources for reconstructing history

>and

>they were not very particular in documenting facts as they were but in

>depicting facts as the author of the text interpreted in his own

>impressionistic way. Consequently, there are lot of mythicization in the

>so-called historical materials and any attempt to demythicize them will

>sometime leads to distortion of history.

>

>

>There are two important views about the origin of

>Christianity

>in India ; One holds that Christianity came to India through the works

>of

>the apostles St. Thomas & St. Bartholomew. The other view is that the

>merchants and the missionaries of East Syrian or Persian Church brought

>Christianity to India. The Indian tradition on the advent of St. Thomas

>to

>Malabar seems to be a very concrete tradition supported by lot of

>historical evidences. The Acts of Judas Thomas written in Syriac by the

>Edezza circle in 3rd century A.D. seems to be the earliest record that

>speaks about this tradition. In addition to this, a number of stray

>passages in the writings of Origen, Eusebius of Caesarea, Rufinus of

>Aquileia, Socrates, Ephrem of Nisibis, Gregory Nizianzus, Ambrose and

>Jerome speak about the visit of St. Thomas to India, even though there

>are

>still some others who deny this claim. St. Ephrem composed hymns

>glorifying St.Thomas whose relics were being venerated in a shrine at

>Edizza where this great Syrian poet - theologian was living.

>

>

>Another work namely The Teaching of the Apostles in

>Syriac

>(Didascalia) also speaks about the same tradition. According to this

>work

>"India and all its own countries and those bordering on it even to

>the

>farther sea, receives the Apostles hand of the priest hood from

>Judas

>Thomas, who was guide and ruler in the Church he built there". There

>is

>another tradition which speaks at length about the advent of

>St.

>Bartholomew to India. But we are not able to come across adequate

>internal

>evidences although St. Jerome and Eusebius of Caesarea of the 4th

>century

>AD speak about this tradition. These two writers refer to this

>tradition

>while speaking about the visit of Pantaenous to India in the 2nd

>century

>A.D.

>

>

>According to Eusebius , "Pantaenous is said to have gone

>among

>the Indians where a report is that he discovered there the Gospel

>according to St. Matthew among some who knew Christ ; Bartholomew, one

>of

>the Apostles had preached to them and had left them the writings of St.

>Matthew in Hebrew letters. According to St. Jerome, Demetrius, Bishop of

>Alexandria, sent Pantaenous to India". But few other scholars deny the

>advent of Bartholomew to India and according to them, Jerome would have

>mistaken Ethiopia to India. But scholars like A.C. Perumalil and G.M.

>Moraes proved the otherwise. According to them, Bombay region on the

>Konkan coast may be the place referred to with regard to the visit of

>Bartholomew. Since the traditions about Bartholomew and St. Thomas

>intermingled, the references about Bartholomew might have been lost in

>course of time. According to A.C. Perumalil, Bartholomew Christians

>continued as a separate community until the coming of the Portuguese and

>then merged with the Christians of Bombay.

>

>

>The South Indian tradition about St. Thomas is preserved in

>an

>oral tradition and in the tradition about St. Thomas Christians who

>claim

>their Christian origin from St. Thomas. Historians consider the

>Coromandal

>tradition of St. Thomas as very ancient to the Malabar tradition. The

>Malabar tradition about St. Thomas is comparatively later but it is

>strong

>and vital. This tradition associates St. Thomas with definite places

>and

>specific families. The Malabar tradition which associates St. Thomas

>with

>Palaiyur, Parur, Kokkamangalam and Niranam is not contradicting with

>any

>other tradition. The Coromondal tradition centres on Mylapore where the

>tomb of the apostle is pointed out. Marcopolo, the Venetian travellor,

>visited the tomb in A.D.1295 and no rival tradition has contradicted

>this

>tradition. It is said that the Christians of Malabar enjoyed peace

>during

>the early centuries and they were supported by Non-Christian rulers.

>There

>is a tradition that St. Thomas conferred priesthood in the members of

>certain families in Malabar.

>

>

>The Early Christian community in India is alleged to

>have

>suffered decline in due course and it was constituted by groups

>of

>Christians who came from Persia and hence there were close

>relationship

>between Christianity in India and the Early Church of Persia.

>The

>Chronicle of Seert, an important East Syrian document of 7th century

>AD

>makes reference to a Bishop namely David who evangelised the Indian

>people

>between 250 - 300 AD. In the list of the 325 Bishops who attended

>the

>Nicaean Council is mentioned one John of Persian, who, according to

>the

>History of Gelasius, was bishop of the whole of Persia and Greater

>India.

>

>

>Many groups of East Syrian Christians are often mentioned

>as

>migrated to Malabar. Among them one group is associated with Thomas

>of

>Cana (4th C. AD) and another with two saintly men Sapor and Potto (of

>9th

>or 10th C. AD). The Malabar tradition whether recorded by the Portugese

>or

>local accounts, is always careful to distinguish Thomas, the Apostle

>from

>Thomas of Cana.

>

>

>Somehow or other, East Syrian Church was looked upon by

>the

>Portugese in 16th C. AD. and by some western missionary with

>suspicion.

>They accused the Thomas Christians of fallen into the heresy

>of

>Nestorianism which the Thomas Christians vehemently deny.

>

>

>Christianity in the Tamilnadu during this phase of

>early

>history was a very potential force and its ethics and other

>theological

>codes find powerful expression even in secular Tamil Classics

>like

>Tirukkural and Naladiyar. Its impact is felt in the native worship

>and

>especially in the local religions like Saivism and Vaishnavism. It

>is

>obvious that India received a number of missionaries many of whom

>belonged

>to Asia and other parts of the world. The Yavanar, probably people

>from

>Greece and Rome, spread the message of Christianity in the length

>and

>breadth of Indian soil.

>

>

>Anyhow, we are able to understand that Christianity was

>deeply

>rooted in the Indian milieu, thanks to the works of proselytism by men

>of

>eminence starting from St. Thomas. But most of the records have been

>lost

>or destroyed and Christianity might have underwent lot of sea-changes

>owing

>to many a time of adversity faced by it. It has left its strong impact

>on

>the other religions of India ; it was instrumental for the emergence

>many

>number of Indian religions. Its presence is felt in all religions of

>India

>in various forms. Its impact on the emergence of Mahayana Buddhism,

>especially in the conception of the Bodhisatva as well as the second

>coming

>of the Maitreya Buddha, is indeed marvelous. The Early Indian

>Christianity,

>which was a part and parcel of the ancient oriental Christianity, gave

>strength and vigour to Indian culture and Indian ethos in

>multifarious

>ways. The deep impact exerted by the early Christianity in the early

>Indian ethos was indeed tremendous although its physical presence was

>not

>very glamourous today as it was shrouded by the misinterpretations and

>misrepresentations of the later historians of this country.

>

>

>The aim of the present conference is to establish the

>existence

>of early Christianity in Indian soil with objective and well

>documented

>evidences and to study its strong impact on medieval and classical

>India

>until the advent of Vasco de Gama whose epoch - making visit

>inaugurated a

>new chapter in the cultural, and political history of this great

>nation.

>We are sure that the reconstruction of the early Christianity in India

>will

>shed new light on the history of Indian Philosophy and Indian Culture

>in

>general and this will give new orientation and new perspective to

>our

>understanding of the classical and medieval culture and civilization.

>The

>so-called Hindu historians of our day failed to see the history of India

>as

>a whole since their approaches are partial and fragmentary giving

>stress

>only to Hinduism neglecting the other forces instrumental for the

>building

>up of Indian culture. What we need to day is a wholesome and complete

>view

>of the Indian culture with objective assessment of the internal as well

>as

>external evidences and balanced presentation of facts. We are sure

>that

>this conference will throw new light not only on the early Christianity

>of

>India but also to help to reconstruct the history of India as a whole.

>

>Proposed Topics - Tentative

>

>

>1. History of Christianity in India - Problems and Perspectives

>2. Advent of St. Thomas.

>3. Land and Sea-routes of the early Christian Missionaries

>4. The countries from where Christian Missionaries came and the

>geographical areas of their activities.

>5. Early Christianity and the important sea-ports of India

>6. Early Christian activities in India - An overview

>7. Early Christians in Tamilnadu

>8. Early Christians and Sangam Tamil Society.

>9. Early Christianity with special reference to Canron in Sangam

>Literature

>and Thirukkural.

>10. Early Christians in Malabar.

>11. Early Christians in North India.

>12. Early Christian Missionaries and Martyrs.

>13. The External History of Early Christianity - An overview

>14. Advent of St. Bartholomew

>15. Foreign Records on St. Bartholomew.

>16. Apocrypha & early Christianity in India

>17. Acts of St. Thomas

>18. Gospel of St. Thomas

>19. St. Thomas and the North Indian king Gondabarus.

>20. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Greeks - North India)

>21. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Romans - South India)

>23. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Jews and Syrians)

>23. The Churches established by St. Thomas

>24. St.Thomas - Santhome and Mylapore

>25. Mylapore and Christianity

>26. Tirukkural and Christianity

>27. Inscriptions in St. Thomas Mount.

>28. An objective assessment of the various traditions on St. Thomas

>29. Christianity and its impact on earlier indigenous texts

>30. Early Christianity and Oral traditions

>31. Linguistic evidences

>32. Excavations etc.

>33. Christianity and the origin of Sanskrit.

>34. Christianity and Indian Myths.

>35. Christianity and Early Indian literature.

>36. Christianity and Indian Theology.

>37. Early Indian Christianity- Numismatic evidences.

>38. Early Indian Christianity- Iconographic evidences.

>39. Early Indian Christianity- Epigraphic evidences.

>40. Thomas of Cana and Syriac traditions

>41. Nestorians and Syrian Christians

>42. Foreign Records on Early Christianity - An overview

>43. Hebrew

>44. Greek

>45. Syriac

>46. Ethiopic

>47. Arabic

>48. Persian

>49. Latin

>50. Coptic

>51. Spanish

>52. Italian

>53. Armenian

>54. Sanskrit

>55. Records in other languages

>56. Characteristic features of Early Christianity

>57. Other foreign reports on Medieval Christianity

>58. Marcopolo's report about Christianity in Mylapore.

>59. Divisions and Denominations in Early Christianity.

>60. Early Christianity and Native Culture - An overview

>61. Buddhism and Christianity

>62. Christ versus Krishna - concepts and mythmaking

>63. The second coming of Christ and Maitreya Buddha

>64. Christianity and Bodhisatva

>65. Impact of Trinity in Hinduism

>66. Christianity and Saktham

>67. Christianity and Saivism

>68. Christianity and Vaishnavism

>69. Christianity and Kaumaram

>70. Christianity and Ganapathyam

>71. Christianity and Sowram

>72. Christianity and the Brahmasutra.

>73. Christianity and the Bhagavat Gita

>74. Christianity and the Six Dharshanas.

>75. Christianity and Advaida.

>76. Christianity and Vedanta.

>77. Christianity and Agamas.

>78. Christianity and the Upanishads.

>79. Christianity and the Ithihasas.

>80. Christianity and the Siddhar Movement.

>81. Impact of Christianity in devotional literature

>82. Marriage metaphor in Indian Literature.

>83. The theme of suffering in Job and Harichandra.

>84. Bible and the Oriental images.

>85. Oriental themes and expressions in the Bible

>86. Mode of worship among early Christians

>87. Liturgy and devotional literature in early Christianity

>88. Shared features of early Indian Christianity with the Oriental

>Christianity in other parts of Asia.

>89. Impact of Early Christianity on Indian life - An overview.

>90. Culture

>91. Art and Architecture

>92. Performing Arts

>93. Folk traditions

>94. Literature

>95. Language

>96. Royal patronage for Christianity

>97. Christianity and Indian Political history

>98. Christianity and Indian Social history.

>99. Early Christianity in other parts of Asia.

>100. Dilution and Corruption in Early Indian Christianity.

>101. Restoration of Early Indian Christianity.

>102. Symbols of Early Indian Christianity.

>103. Roots of Sikkhism and Early Indian Christianity.

>104. Early Christianity in Kerala.

>105. St. Thomas Christians in the Context of Indian Culture.

>

>

>Execution of the Project

>

>There shall be three important main committees with a number

>of

>sub-committees to monitor and execute the project. Delegates will

>be

>selected and invited from various organisations all over the

>world.

>Persons who have done intensive study on the above topics will be

>invited

>as delegates.

>

>I. International Advisory Committee

>

>A committee consisting of 12 scholars of international

>repute

>may be constituted to offer guidelines on the methodology, thematic

>treatment and in editing the papers.

>

>II. International Organising Committee

>

>A Committee consisting of 12 representatives from

>various

>countries and Organisations all over the world will be constituted to

>offer

>guidelines and suggestions in the successful conduct of the

>conference

>programmes.

>

>III. Working Committee

>

>A Committee consisting of few local representatives has been

>constituted to monitor and execute this project with the help of the

>various sub-committees constituted to look after the variety of works.

>

>Conference Programme - Tentative

>

>The programme shall continue for five days with an inaugural

>session, a valedictory session and eight academic sessions which will be

>divided into many more sub-sessions depending upon the number of

>papers.

>There shall be five cultural programmes in the evenings. The programme

>is

>fixed tentatively to July 2005. The seminar papers will be published in

>4

>volumes.

>

>Style-Sheet for Contributors

>

>1. The total number of pages of research papers shall vary from 15 to

>45

>depending upon the data available and the nature of

>interpretations

>required.

>

>2. Manuscripts should be submitted in duplicate. They must be typed

>or

>printed on one side only; double-spaced with sufficient margins on

>all

>sides to facilitate editing and styling. All notes should also be typed

>or

>printed double-spaced.

>

>3. Notes should be consecutively numbered and presented at the end of

>the

>paper.

>

>4. Lengthy quotations should start on a separate line and be

>indented;

>shorter quotations should run into the text with

>single

>quotation marks.

>

>5. Citations from archival sources must specify the archival

>location

>including the town and country where an archive is located. In

>case

>of recorded oral material, the location of the recording should

>be

>specified. In other cases, the name and location of the oral

>informant

>should be clearly stated. For inscriptions, the title of the volume

>with

>publication details should be mentioned. For other details kindly

>follow

>the "M.L.A. Handbook for Writers of Research Paper". (fifth edition)

>or

>"Writing Research Papers - A guide" by James. D. Lister.

>

>This Conference is organised jointly by the

>Institute

>of Asian Studies, Chennai, India, The Centre for the Study of

>Christian

>Literature and Culture in Indian Languages (CSCLC), Chennai, India, and

>few

>other academic centres of advanced research in other countries. For

>more

>informations about the Institute of Asian Studies and the CSCLC

>visit

>xlweb.com/heritage/asian and www.csclc.org.

>

>For further details on the Conference, please contact:

>

>Dr. G. John Samuel

>Founder-Director,

>Institute of Asian Studies,

>Chemmancherry, Sholinganallur P.O.

>

>Institute of Asian Studies home page

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical,

>archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism,

>God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome.

>Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is the natural

>state of a society that is in harmony with God and the environment.Om

>Shantih, Harih Om

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

After reading this post, I appreciated the problem we have as a community. We're

cheap. We don't want to spend the money as a community.

 

We have academics who tirelessly toile for decades at great occupational peril

and personal and financial sacrifice as we see in hundreds of examples on this

forum alone. We have sadhu's, practitioners, preachers, youth, new comers and

home makers all willing and actively doing the same. But until we have the

kinds of resources that would allow us to organize a similar prolonged, tightly

coordinated international effort tapping and utilizing each of the thousands of

participants in a clearly defined role and context as we see of the Christian

Muslim effort, we will only be left to the sing to the wind of the internet.

 

The missionary’s effort is a multi-tier, multi-pronged, decade’s

long program that is well funded and smoothly organized to coordinate thousands

simultaneously in a powerful coalition that concentrates its global reach into a

single effort. Until Hindu's as a community are willing and able to spend the

money to tap the extraordinary talent and dedication, we are in large measure

wasting our time.

 

Rather then this piecemeal response almost clumsily thrown together from a half

dozen grossly over extended hard core members, let's instead put together a

list of a minimum of 5,000 person strong aremy of academics, activist,

religious practitioners and others that would serve clearly defined focus

groups to tackle predefined issues, time tables and geographic regions. Then

let’s draw up the budget necessary to make it happen-sky's the limit.

Then let's go out and raise the funds. Implementing this would would shift

these other goups own confidence and change the tone of this and many other

discussions.

 

In short, the issue is not so much what these other groups are doing as it is

what we are not doing. They are setting the terms of the debate because they

are simply more committed by way of resources and coordination. Who ever is

most committed wins. That includes a commitment of money.For us, it's not a

matter of man power, expertise or dedication. We have that. It's all about

coordination and money at this point.

 

It's time to put together a sponsor list. We have to approach India's

millionaires and billionaires. They need to commit their capital by way of

manpower, financial resource and social clout to this cause much as the

academics and activist have done and much as Christian and Muslim millionaires

and billionaires are doing. Until we take things to this level, we are not

acting as a community. Rather, we are a disenfranchised splinter of different

groups to a dispersed community held on bonds more from a past then a future.

That is how we appear and that is the impact of our efforts. We have to change

this if we are serious about changing the mounting peril being assembled by the

enemies of all indeginious cultures.

 

Raghu

 

 

 

 

Vrin Parker [vrinparker (AT) (DOT) co.in] Tuesday, November 16,

2004 2:02 AMvedicultureSubject: [world-vedic] Missionary

attempts to distort Indian History

wagle (AT) mail (DOT) holyname.org wrote: Fw: Missionary attempts to distort

Indian Historyvrinparker (AT) (DOT) co.in,kavindra (AT) telus (DOT) netFrom:

wagle (AT) mail (DOT) holyname.orgDate: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:38:45 -0500Dear Vrin and

Jeffrey,Could you pls forward this to other members of Vedic Friends? By the

way, Ihave still not received a response to my application to become a member

ofVFA.This situation with the Missionaries conference next year is scary!!

Anythoughts as to how we can counter this move on their

part?=================================================----- Forwarded by Sharad

Wagle/HNH on 11/08/2004 04:30 PM -----Sharad Wagle/HNH 11/08/2004 04:30 To PM

indicjournalists cc indicjournalists Subject

Re: Missionary attempts to distort Indian History(Document link: Sharad Wagle)

The event planned for 2005 mentioned in the announcement below is a partof what

has been going on as a massive organized and well funded programto rewrite

history, so as to show that Hinduism was derived from earlyChristianity.Stage 1

of making Hinduism illegitimate was to show that Hinduismoriginated in British

colonial times. But many items could not beexplainedas they were earlier. Stage

2 was to show that these came from islam -suchas bhakti.Stage 3 is now to go

even deeper and show how early Christianity broughteven those aspects that

Muslims or British did not.A scholar in charge of the 15 volume Mahabharata

project of which halfthe volumes are done already, made the statement that Gita

should bedated at around 5th century CE. (This in my opinion gives them

enoughtime to make it fit into the Christian origins of Gita.) He said thatGita

was grafted into what was a violence prone religion, just to makeMahabharata

look mild and ethical. This is far more insidious than theAryan invasion

theory.So the strategy is grand and long term. Look at the way mentioned in

theannouncement they have divided into teams with plans etc. Look at thelistof

topics at the end into which they organized the work to be done. THEYMEAN

BUSINESS. They do have enormous library archives as Christianinstitutions took

control over most documents and never returned them.Access is also limited to

insiders in many instances and/or at veryheavyfees which Indian scholars cannot

afford.In contrast with clarity of purpose and concreteness of plans,

Hindusscholars (the very few that are there) are lost in nostalgia

andchauvinistoptimism about 5,000 years old invincibility via mantras, and

otherloftybaloney.The role of the Indian Government over the years or at least

itscomplicity is horrifying. The institute named below which is doing thisis

The Institute of Asian Studies. It is affiliated to the University ofMadras and

to Pondicherry University for conducting research programmesleading to Ph.D.

degrees and is recognized by the University GrantsCommission of the Government

of India.WHY IS THERE NO PUBLIC INTEREST LITIGATION IN INDIA TO FORCE

THEGOVERNMENT TO ENSURE EQUAL ACCESS BY OPPOSING SCHOLARS TO ALL THEARCHIVAL

DOCUMENTS THESE MISSIONARIES WILL UTILIZE? WHY NOT A MECHANISMTO LEVEL THE

PLAYING FIELD AT THIS NASCENT STAGE?Please suggest ways to counter and put a

full stop to this missionaryattempt to distort Indian History.There is no

integrated set up to defend Hindus at the level ofconferences, seminars and

proceedings, where much is done by the enemiesofHinduism .Missionaries have a

corporate set up, and are able to organisethemselves.Now they are carrying the

distortion into the heart of Americanfinancialcapital - New York .Please visit

www hamsa.org first - to have full grasp of the

subjecthttp://www.xlweb.com/heritage/asian/christianity-conference.htmFIRST

INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE / SEMINAR ON THE HISTORY OF EARLYCHRISTIANITY IN

INDIA(From the advent of St. Thomas to Vasco de Gama)(13th - 16th August 2005

in New York)The history of Christianity in India is traceable to theadventof

St. Thomas soon after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. But this hasbeena

subject of controversy for a long time owing to lack ofdocumentaryevidences.

Now, we are able to get lot of evidences both internalandexternal to testify to

the existence early Christianity in India fromtheperiod of St. Thomas.History in

early India is different from history asconceivedin Europe and other countries.

There was no pure historical document inIndia with chronological details and

whatever is available as ancienthistorical documents are a blending of

historical facts with fictionalelements. Literatures were the main sources for

reconstructing historyandthey were not very particular in documenting facts as

they were but indepicting facts as the author of the text interpreted in his

ownimpressionistic way. Consequently, there are lot of mythicization in

theso-called historical materials and any attempt to demythicize them

willsometime leads to distortion of history.There are two important views about

the origin ofChristianityin India ; One holds that Christianity came to India

through the worksofthe apostles St. Thomas & St. Bartholomew. The other view is

that themerchants and the missionaries of East Syrian or Persian Church

broughtChristianity to India. The Indian tradition on the advent of St.

ThomastoMalabar seems to be a very concrete tradition supported by lot

ofhistorical evidences. The Acts of Judas Thomas written in Syriac by theEdezza

circle in 3rd century A.D. seems to be the earliest record thatspeaks about this

tradition. In addition to this, a number of straypassages in the writings of

Origen, Eusebius of Caesarea, Rufinus ofAquileia, Socrates, Ephrem of Nisibis,

Gregory Nizianzus, Ambrose andJerome speak about the visit of St. Thomas to

India, even though therearestill some others who deny this claim. St. Ephrem

composed hymnsglorifying St.Thomas whose relics were being venerated in a

shrine atEdizza where this great Syrian poet - theologian was living.Another

work namely The Teaching of the Apostles inSyriac(Didascalia) also speaks about

the same tradition. According to thiswork"India and all its own countries and

those bordering on it even tothefarther sea, receives the Apostles hand of the

priest hood fromJudasThomas, who was guide and ruler in the Church he built

there". Thereisanother tradition which speaks at length about the advent

ofSt.Bartholomew to India. But we are not able to come across

adequateinternalevidences although St. Jerome and Eusebius of Caesarea of the

4thcenturyAD speak about this tradition. These two writers refer to

thistraditionwhile speaking about the visit of Pantaenous to India in the

2ndcenturyA.D.According to Eusebius , "Pantaenous is said to have goneamongthe

Indians where a report is that he discovered there the Gospelaccording to St.

Matthew among some who knew Christ ; Bartholomew, oneofthe Apostles had

preached to them and had left them the writings of St.Matthew in Hebrew

letters. According to St. Jerome, Demetrius, Bishop ofAlexandria, sent

Pantaenous to India". But few other scholars deny theadvent of Bartholomew to

India and according to them, Jerome would havemistaken Ethiopia to India. But

scholars like A.C. Perumalil and G.M.Moraes proved the otherwise. According to

them, Bombay region on theKonkan coast may be the place referred to with regard

to the visit ofBartholomew. Since the traditions about Bartholomew and St.

Thomasintermingled, the references about Bartholomew might have been lost

incourse of time. According to A.C. Perumalil, Bartholomew Christianscontinued

as a separate community until the coming of the Portuguese andthen merged with

the Christians of Bombay.The South Indian tradition about St. Thomas is

preserved inanoral tradition and in the tradition about St. Thomas Christians

whoclaimtheir Christian origin from St. Thomas. Historians consider

theCoromandaltradition of St. Thomas as very ancient to the Malabar tradition.

TheMalabar tradition about St. Thomas is comparatively later but it isstrongand

vital. This tradition associates St. Thomas with definite placesandspecific

families. The Malabar tradition which associates St. ThomaswithPalaiyur, Parur,

Kokkamangalam and Niranam is not contradicting withanyother tradition. The

Coromondal tradition centres on Mylapore where thetomb of the apostle is

pointed out. Marcopolo, the Venetian travellor,visited the tomb in A.D.1295 and

no rival tradition has contradictedthistradition. It is said that the Christians

of Malabar enjoyed peaceduringthe early centuries and they were supported by

Non-Christian rulers.Thereis a tradition that St. Thomas conferred priesthood

in the members ofcertain families in Malabar.The Early Christian community in

India is alleged tohavesuffered decline in due course and it was constituted by

groupsofChristians who came from Persia and hence there were

closerelationshipbetween Christianity in India and the Early Church of

Persia.TheChronicle of Seert, an important East Syrian document of 7th

centuryADmakes reference to a Bishop namely David who evangelised the

Indianpeoplebetween 250 - 300 AD. In the list of the 325 Bishops who

attendedtheNicaean Council is mentioned one John of Persian, who, according

totheHistory of Gelasius, was bishop of the whole of Persia and

GreaterIndia.Many groups of East Syrian Christians are often

mentionedasmigrated to Malabar. Among them one group is associated with

ThomasofCana (4th C. AD) and another with two saintly men Sapor and Potto

(of9thor 10th C. AD). The Malabar tradition whether recorded by the

Portugeseorlocal accounts, is always careful to distinguish Thomas, the

ApostlefromThomas of Cana.Somehow or other, East Syrian Church was looked upon

bythePortugese in 16th C. AD. and by some western missionary withsuspicion.They

accused the Thomas Christians of fallen into the heresyofNestorianism which the

Thomas Christians vehemently deny.Christianity in the Tamilnadu during this

phase ofearlyhistory was a very potential force and its ethics and

othertheologicalcodes find powerful expression even in secular Tamil

ClassicslikeTirukkural and Naladiyar. Its impact is felt in the native

worshipandespecially in the local religions like Saivism and Vaishnavism.

Itisobvious that India received a number of missionaries many of whombelongedto

Asia and other parts of the world. The Yavanar, probably peoplefromGreece and

Rome, spread the message of Christianity in the lengthandbreadth of Indian

soil.Anyhow, we are able to understand that Christianity wasdeeplyrooted in the

Indian milieu, thanks to the works of proselytism by menofeminence starting from

St. Thomas. But most of the records have beenlostor destroyed and Christianity

might have underwent lot of sea-changesowingto many a time of adversity faced

by it. It has left its strong impactonthe other religions of India ; it was

instrumental for the emergencemanynumber of Indian religions. Its presence is

felt in all religions ofIndiain various forms. Its impact on the emergence of

Mahayana Buddhism,especially in the conception of the Bodhisatva as well as the

secondcomingof the Maitreya Buddha, is indeed marvelous. The Early

IndianChristianity,which was a part and parcel of the ancient oriental

Christianity, gavestrength and vigour to Indian culture and Indian ethos

inmultifariousways. The deep impact exerted by the early Christianity in the

earlyIndian ethos was indeed tremendous although its physical presence

wasnotvery glamourous today as it was shrouded by the misinterpretations

andmisrepresentations of the later historians of this country.The aim of the

present conference is to establish theexistenceof early Christianity in Indian

soil with objective and welldocumentedevidences and to study its strong impact

on medieval and classicalIndiauntil the advent of Vasco de Gama whose epoch -

making visitinaugurated anew chapter in the cultural, and political history of

this greatnation.We are sure that the reconstruction of the early Christianity

in Indiawillshed new light on the history of Indian Philosophy and Indian

Cultureingeneral and this will give new orientation and new perspective

toourunderstanding of the classical and medieval culture and

civilization.Theso-called Hindu historians of our day failed to see the history

of Indiaasa whole since their approaches are partial and fragmentary

givingstressonly to Hinduism neglecting the other forces instrumental for

thebuildingup of Indian culture. What we need to day is a wholesome and

completeviewof the Indian culture with objective assessment of the internal as

wellasexternal evidences and balanced presentation of facts. We are

surethatthis conference will throw new light not only on the early

ChristianityofIndia but also to help to reconstruct the history of India as a

whole.Proposed Topics - Tentative1. History of Christianity in India - Problems

and Perspectives2. Advent of St. Thomas.3. Land and Sea-routes of the early

Christian Missionaries4. The countries from where Christian Missionaries came

and thegeographical areas of their activities.5. Early Christianity and the

important sea-ports of India6. Early Christian activities in India - An

overview7. Early Christians in Tamilnadu8. Early Christians and Sangam Tamil

Society.9. Early Christianity with special reference to Canron in

SangamLiteratureand Thirukkural.10. Early Christians in Malabar.11. Early

Christians in North India.12. Early Christian Missionaries and Martyrs.13. The

External History of Early Christianity - An overview14. Advent of St.

Bartholomew15. Foreign Records on St. Bartholomew.16. Apocrypha & early

Christianity in India17. Acts of St. Thomas18. Gospel of St. Thomas19. St.

Thomas and the North Indian king Gondabarus.20. Early Christianity and Yavanar

(Greeks - North India)21. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Romans - South

India)23. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Jews and Syrians)23. The Churches

established by St. Thomas24. St.Thomas - Santhome and Mylapore25. Mylapore and

Christianity26. Tirukkural and Christianity27. Inscriptions in St. Thomas

Mount.28. An objective assessment of the various traditions on St. Thomas29.

Christianity and its impact on earlier indigenous texts30. Early Christianity

and Oral traditions31. Linguistic evidences32. Excavations etc.33. Christianity

and the origin of Sanskrit.34. Christianity and Indian Myths.35. Christianity

and Early Indian literature.36. Christianity and Indian Theology.37. Early

Indian Christianity- Numismatic evidences.38. Early Indian Christianity-

Iconographic evidences.39. Early Indian Christianity- Epigraphic evidences.40.

Thomas of Cana and Syriac traditions41. Nestorians and Syrian Christians42.

Foreign Records on Early Christianity - An overview43. Hebrew44. Greek45.

Syriac46. Ethiopic47. Arabic48. Persian49. Latin50. Coptic51. Spanish52.

Italian53. Armenian54. Sanskrit55. Records in other languages56. Characteristic

features of Early Christianity57. Other foreign reports on Medieval

Christianity58. Marcopolo's report about Christianity in Mylapore.59. Divisions

and Denominations in Early Christianity.60. Early Christianity and Native

Culture - An overview61. Buddhism and Christianity62. Christ versus Krishna -

concepts and mythmaking63. The second coming of Christ and Maitreya Buddha64.

Christianity and Bodhisatva65. Impact of Trinity in Hinduism66. Christianity

and Saktham67. Christianity and Saivism68. Christianity and Vaishnavism69.

Christianity and Kaumaram70. Christianity and Ganapathyam71. Christianity and

Sowram72. Christianity and the Brahmasutra.73. Christianity and the Bhagavat

Gita74. Christianity and the Six Dharshanas.75. Christianity and Advaida.76.

Christianity and Vedanta.77. Christianity and Agamas.78. Christianity and the

Upanishads.79. Christianity and the Ithihasas.80. Christianity and the Siddhar

Movement.81. Impact of Christianity in devotional literature82. Marriage

metaphor in Indian Literature.83. The theme of suffering in Job and

Harichandra.84. Bible and the Oriental images.85. Oriental themes and

expressions in the Bible86. Mode of worship among early Christians87. Liturgy

and devotional literature in early Christianity88. Shared features of early

Indian Christianity with the OrientalChristianity in other parts of Asia.89.

Impact of Early Christianity on Indian life - An overview.90. Culture91. Art

and Architecture92. Performing Arts93. Folk traditions94. Literature95.

Language96. Royal patronage for Christianity97. Christianity and Indian

Political history98. Christianity and Indian Social history.99. Early

Christianity in other parts of Asia.100. Dilution and Corruption in Early

Indian Christianity.101. Restoration of Early Indian Christianity.102. Symbols

of Early Indian Christianity.103. Roots of Sikkhism and Early Indian

Christianity.104. Early Christianity in Kerala.105. St. Thomas Christians in

the Context of Indian Culture.Execution of the ProjectThere shall be three

important main committees with a numberofsub-committees to monitor and execute

the project. Delegates willbeselected and invited from various organisations

all over theworld.Persons who have done intensive study on the above topics

will beinvitedas delegates.I. International Advisory CommitteeA committee

consisting of 12 scholars of internationalreputemay be constituted to offer

guidelines on the methodology, thematictreatment and in editing the papers.II.

International Organising CommitteeA Committee consisting of 12 representatives

fromvariouscountries and Organisations all over the world will be constituted

toofferguidelines and suggestions in the successful conduct of

theconferenceprogrammes.III. Working CommitteeA Committee consisting of few

local representatives has beenconstituted to monitor and execute this project

with the help of thevarious sub-committees constituted to look after the

variety of works.Conference Programme - TentativeThe programme shall continue

for five days with an inauguralsession, a valedictory session and eight

academic sessions which will bedivided into many more sub-sessions depending

upon the number ofpapers.There shall be five cultural programmes in the

evenings. The programmeisfixed tentatively to July 2005. The seminar papers

will be published in4volumes.Style-Sheet for Contributors1. The total number of

pages of research papers shall vary from 15 to45depending upon the data

available and the nature ofinterpretationsrequired.2. Manuscripts should be

submitted in duplicate. They must be typedorprinted on one side only;

double-spaced with sufficient margins onallsides to facilitate editing and

styling. All notes should also be typedorprinted double-spaced.3. Notes should

be consecutively numbered and presented at the end ofthepaper.4. Lengthy

quotations should start on a separate line and beindented;shorter quotations

should run into the text withsinglequotation marks.5. Citations from archival

sources must specify the archivallocationincluding the town and country where

an archive is located. Incaseof recorded oral material, the location of the

recording shouldbespecified. In other cases, the name and location of the

oralinformantshould be clearly stated. For inscriptions, the title of the

volumewithpublication details should be mentioned. For other details

kindlyfollowthe "M.L.A. Handbook for Writers of Research Paper". (fifth

edition)or"Writing Research Papers - A guide" by James. D. Lister.This

Conference is organised jointly by theInstituteof Asian Studies, Chennai,

India, The Centre for the Study ofChristianLiterature and Culture in Indian

Languages (CSCLC), Chennai, India, andfewother academic centres of advanced

research in other countries. Formoreinformations about the Institute of Asian

Studies and the CSCLCvisitxlweb.com/heritage/asian and www.csclc.org.For

further details on the Conference, please contact:Dr. G. John

SamuelFounder-Director,Institute of Asian Studies,Chemmancherry, Sholinganallur

P.O.Institute of Asian Studies home page

India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. This is an information

resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient

Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific

aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World

Culture are welcome.Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition,

but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the

environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om