RE: Hindu's don't want to spend the money, so we lose RE: [world-vedic] Missionary attempts to distort Indian History

[Guest guest]

Nov 27, 2004Dear Raghu

Namaste,

Thanks

for proposing a real strategy. Please join usto further advance the common cause

for the educating common masses, therefore I invite you to join WORLD

ASSOCIATION FOR VEDIC STUDIES (WAVES )A ACADAMIC + Non acedamic people in usa,.

I will also mail the copy of this e-mail to Prof. Bhudev Sharma President of

WAVES, so yo umay be made aware of our progress.

Thanks

Deen B Chandora

>"Raghu" <raghu (AT) roopa (DOT) org>

>vediculture

><vediculture>

>CC: <VFA-members>

>Hindu's don't want to spend the money, so we lose RE: [world-vedic]

Missionary attempts to distort Indian History

>Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:56:54 -1000

>

>After reading this post, I appreciated the problem we have as a community.

>We're cheap. We don't want to spend the money as a community.

>

>

>

>We have academics who tirelessly toile for decades at great occupational

>peril and personal and financial sacrifice as we see in hundreds of examples

>on this forum alone. We have sadhu's, practitioners, preachers, youth, new

>comers and home makers all willing and actively doing the same. But until we

>have the kinds of resources that would allow us to organize a similar

>prolonged, tightly coordinated international effort tapping and utilizing

>each of the thousands of participants in a clearly defined role and context

>as we see of the Christian Muslim effort, we will only be left to the sing

>to the wind of the internet.

>

>

>

>The missionary's effort is a multi-tier, multi-pronged, decade's long

>program that is well funded and smoothly organized to coordinate thousands

>simultaneously in a powerful coalition that concentrates its global reach

>into a single effort. Until Hindu's as a community are willing and able to

>spend the money to tap the extraordinary talent and dedication, we are in

>large measure wasting our time.

>

>

>

>Rather then this piecemeal response almost clumsily thrown together from a

>half dozen grossly over extended hard core members, let's instead put

>together a list of a minimum of 5,000 person strong aremy of academics,

>activist, religious practitioners and others that would serve clearly

>defined focus groups to tackle predefined issues, time tables and geographic

>regions. Then let's draw up the budget necessary to make it happen-sky's the

>limit. Then let's go out and raise the funds. Implementing this would would

>shift these other goups own confidence and change the tone of this and many

>other discussions.

>

>

>

>In short, the issue is not so much what these other groups are doing as it

>is what we are not doing. They are setting the terms of the debate because

>they are simply more committed by way of resources and coordination. Who

>ever is most committed wins. That includes a commitment of money.For us,

>it's not a matter of man power, expertise or dedication. We have that. It's

>all about coordination and money at this point.

>

>

>

>It's time to put together a sponsor list. We have to approach India's

>millionaires and billionaires. They need to commit their capital by way of

>manpower, financial resource and social clout to this cause much as the

>academics and activist have done and much as Christian and Muslim

>millionaires and billionaires are doing. Until we take things to this level,

>we are not acting as a community. Rather, we are a disenfranchised splinter

>of different groups to a dispersed community held on bonds more from a past

>then a future. That is how we appear and that is the impact of our efforts.

>We have to change this if we are serious about changing the mounting peril

>being assembled by the enemies of all indeginious cultures.

>

>

>

>Raghu

_____

>

>Vrin Parker [vrinparker (AT) (DOT) co.in]

>Tuesday, November 16, 2004 2:02 AM

>vediculture

>[world-vedic] Missionary attempts to distort Indian History

>

>

>wagle (AT) mail (DOT) holyname.org wrote:

>

>Fw: Missionary attempts to distort Indian History

>vrinparker (AT) (DOT) co.in,

>kavindra (AT) telus (DOT) net

>wagle (AT) mail (DOT) holyname.org

>Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:38:45 -0500

>

>Dear Vrin and Jeffrey,

>Could you pls forward this to other members of Vedic Friends? By the way, I

>have still not received a response to my application to become a member of

>VFA.

>This situation with the Missionaries conference next year is scary!! Any

>thoughts as to how we can counter this move on their part?

>=================================================

>

>----- Forwarded by Sharad Wagle/HNH on 11/08/2004 04:30 PM -----

>

>Sharad Wagle/HNH

>

>11/08/2004 04:30 To

>PM indicjournalists

>cc

>indicjournalists

>Subject

>Re: Missionary attempts to distort

>Indian History(Document link:

>Sharad Wagle)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>The event planned for 2005 mentioned in the announcement below is a part

>of what has been going on as a massive organized and well funded program

>to rewrite history, so as to show that Hinduism was derived from early

>Christianity.

>

>Stage 1 of making Hinduism illegitimate was to show that Hinduism

>originated in British colonial times. But many items could not be

>explained

>as they were earlier. Stage 2 was to show that these came from islam -

>such

>as bhakti.

>

>Stage 3 is now to go even deeper and show how early Christianity brought

>even those aspects that Muslims or British did not.

>

>A scholar in charge of the 15 volume Mahabharata project of which half

>the volumes are done already, made the statement that Gita should be

>dated at around 5th century CE. (This in my opinion gives them enough

>time to make it fit into the Christian origins of Gita.) He said that

>Gita was grafted into what was a violence prone religion, just to make

>Mahabharata look mild and ethical. This is far more insidious than the

>Aryan invasion theory.

>

>So the strategy is grand and long term. Look at the way mentioned in the

>announcement they have divided into teams with plans etc. Look at the

>list

>of topics at the end into which they organized the work to be done. THEY

>MEAN BUSINESS. They do have enormous library archives as Christian

>institutions took control over most documents and never returned them.

>Access is also limited to insiders in many instances and/or at very

>heavy

>fees which Indian scholars cannot afford.

>

>In contrast with clarity of purpose and concreteness of plans, Hindus

>scholars (the very few that are there) are lost in nostalgia and

>chauvinist

>optimism about 5,000 years old invincibility via mantras, and other

>lofty

>baloney.

>

>The role of the Indian Government over the years or at least its

>complicity is horrifying. The institute named below which is doing this

>is The Institute of Asian Studies. It is affiliated to the University of

>Madras and to Pondicherry University for conducting research programmes

>leading to Ph.D. degrees and is recognized by the University Grants

>Commission of the Government of India.

>

>WHY IS THERE NO PUBLIC INTEREST LITIGATION IN INDIA TO FORCE THE

>GOVERNMENT TO ENSURE EQUAL ACCESS BY OPPOSING SCHOLARS TO ALL THE

>ARCHIVAL DOCUMENTS THESE MISSIONARIES WILL UTILIZE? WHY NOT A MECHANISM

>TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD AT THIS NASCENT STAGE?

>

>Please suggest ways to counter and put a full stop to this missionary

>attempt to distort Indian History.

>

>There is no integrated set up to defend Hindus at the level of

>conferences, seminars and proceedings, where much is done by the enemies

>of

>Hinduism .

>

>Missionaries have a corporate set up, and are able to organise

>themselves.

>Now they are carrying the distortion into the heart of American

>financial

>capital - New York .

>

>

>Please visit www hamsa.org first - to have full grasp of the subject

>

>http://www.xlweb.com/heritage/asian/christianity-conference.htm

>

>

>

>FIRST INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE / SEMINAR ON THE HISTORY OF EARLY

>CHRISTIANITY IN INDIA

>

>

>(From the advent of St. Thomas to Vasco de Gama)

>

>

>(13th - 16th August 2005 in New York)

>

>

>The history of Christianity in India is traceable to the

>advent

>of St. Thomas soon after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. But this has

>been

>a subject of controversy for a long time owing to lack of

>documentary

>evidences. Now, we are able to get lot of evidences both internal

>and

>external to testify to the existence early Christianity in India from

>the

>period of St. Thomas.

>

>History in early India is different from history as

>conceived

>in Europe and other countries. There was no pure historical document in

>India with chronological details and whatever is available as ancient

>historical documents are a blending of historical facts with fictional

>elements. Literatures were the main sources for reconstructing history

>and

>they were not very particular in documenting facts as they were but in

>depicting facts as the author of the text interpreted in his own

>impressionistic way. Consequently, there are lot of mythicization in the

>so-called historical materials and any attempt to demythicize them will

>sometime leads to distortion of history.

>

>

>There are two important views about the origin of

>Christianity

>in India ; One holds that Christianity came to India through the works

>of

>the apostles St. Thomas & St. Bartholomew. The other view is that the

>merchants and the missionaries of East Syrian or Persian Church brought

>Christianity to India. The Indian tradition on the advent of St. Thomas

>to

>Malabar seems to be a very concrete tradition supported by lot of

>historical evidences. The Acts of Judas Thomas written in Syriac by the

>Edezza circle in 3rd century A.D. seems to be the earliest record that

>speaks about this tradition. In addition to this, a number of stray

>passages in the writings of Origen, Eusebius of Caesarea, Rufinus of

>Aquileia, Socrates, Ephrem of Nisibis, Gregory Nizianzus, Ambrose and

>Jerome speak about the visit of St. Thomas to India, even though there

>are

>still some others who deny this claim. St. Ephrem composed hymns

>glorifying St.Thomas whose relics were being venerated in a shrine at

>Edizza where this great Syrian poet - theologian was living.

>

>

>Another work namely The Teaching of the Apostles in

>Syriac

>(Didascalia) also speaks about the same tradition. According to this

>work

>"India and all its own countries and those bordering on it even to

>the

>farther sea, receives the Apostles hand of the priest hood from

>Judas

>Thomas, who was guide and ruler in the Church he built there". There

>is

>another tradition which speaks at length about the advent of

>St.

>Bartholomew to India. But we are not able to come across adequate

>internal

>evidences although St. Jerome and Eusebius of Caesarea of the 4th

>century

>AD speak about this tradition. These two writers refer to this

>tradition

>while speaking about the visit of Pantaenous to India in the 2nd

>century

>A.D.

>

>

>According to Eusebius , "Pantaenous is said to have gone

>among

>the Indians where a report is that he discovered there the Gospel

>according to St. Matthew among some who knew Christ ; Bartholomew, one

>of

>the Apostles had preached to them and had left them the writings of St.

>Matthew in Hebrew letters. According to St. Jerome, Demetrius, Bishop of

>Alexandria, sent Pantaenous to India". But few other scholars deny the

>advent of Bartholomew to India and according to them, Jerome would have

>mistaken Ethiopia to India. But scholars like A.C. Perumalil and G.M.

>Moraes proved the otherwise. According to them, Bombay region on the

>Konkan coast may be the place referred to with regard to the visit of

>Bartholomew. Since the traditions about Bartholomew and St. Thomas

>intermingled, the references about Bartholomew might have been lost in

>course of time. According to A.C. Perumalil, Bartholomew Christians

>continued as a separate community until the coming of the Portuguese and

>then merged with the Christians of Bombay.

>

>

>The South Indian tradition about St. Thomas is preserved in

>an

>oral tradition and in the tradition about St. Thomas Christians who

>claim

>their Christian origin from St. Thomas. Historians consider the

>Coromandal

>tradition of St. Thomas as very ancient to the Malabar tradition. The

>Malabar tradition about St. Thomas is comparatively later but it is

>strong

>and vital. This tradition associates St. Thomas with definite places

>and

>specific families. The Malabar tradition which associates St. Thomas

>with

>Palaiyur, Parur, Kokkamangalam and Niranam is not contradicting with

>any

>other tradition. The Coromondal tradition centres on Mylapore where the

>tomb of the apostle is pointed out. Marcopolo, the Venetian travellor,

>visited the tomb in A.D.1295 and no rival tradition has contradicted

>this

>tradition. It is said that the Christians of Malabar enjoyed peace

>during

>the early centuries and they were supported by Non-Christian rulers.

>There

>is a tradition that St. Thomas conferred priesthood in the members of

>certain families in Malabar.

>

>

>The Early Christian community in India is alleged to

>have

>suffered decline in due course and it was constituted by groups

>of

>Christians who came from Persia and hence there were close

>relationship

>between Christianity in India and the Early Church of Persia.

>The

>Chronicle of Seert, an important East Syrian document of 7th century

>AD

>makes reference to a Bishop namely David who evangelised the Indian

>people

>between 250 - 300 AD. In the list of the 325 Bishops who attended

>the

>Nicaean Council is mentioned one John of Persian, who, according to

>the

>History of Gelasius, was bishop of the whole of Persia and Greater

>India.

>

>

>Many groups of East Syrian Christians are often mentioned

>as

>migrated to Malabar. Among them one group is associated with Thomas

>of

>Cana (4th C. AD) and another with two saintly men Sapor and Potto (of

>9th

>or 10th C. AD). The Malabar tradition whether recorded by the Portugese

>or

>local accounts, is always careful to distinguish Thomas, the Apostle

>from

>Thomas of Cana.

>

>

>Somehow or other, East Syrian Church was looked upon by

>the

>Portugese in 16th C. AD. and by some western missionary with

>suspicion.

>They accused the Thomas Christians of fallen into the heresy

>of

>Nestorianism which the Thomas Christians vehemently deny.

>

>

>Christianity in the Tamilnadu during this phase of

>early

>history was a very potential force and its ethics and other

>theological

>codes find powerful expression even in secular Tamil Classics

>like

>Tirukkural and Naladiyar. Its impact is felt in the native worship

>and

>especially in the local religions like Saivism and Vaishnavism. It

>is

>obvious that India received a number of missionaries many of whom

>belonged

>to Asia and other parts of the world. The Yavanar, probably people

>from

>Greece and Rome, spread the message of Christianity in the length

>and

>breadth of Indian soil.

>

>

>Anyhow, we are able to understand that Christianity was

>deeply

>rooted in the Indian milieu, thanks to the works of proselytism by men

>of

>eminence starting from St. Thomas. But most of the records have been

>lost

>or destroyed and Christianity might have underwent lot of sea-changes

>owing

>to many a time of adversity faced by it. It has left its strong impact

>on

>the other religions of India ; it was instrumental for the emergence

>many

>number of Indian religions. Its presence is felt in all religions of

>India

>in various forms. Its impact on the emergence of Mahayana Buddhism,

>especially in the conception of the Bodhisatva as well as the second

>coming

>of the Maitreya Buddha, is indeed marvelous. The Early Indian

>Christianity,

>which was a part and parcel of the ancient oriental Christianity, gave

>strength and vigour to Indian culture and Indian ethos in

>multifarious

>ways. The deep impact exerted by the early Christianity in the early

>Indian ethos was indeed tremendous although its physical presence was

>not

>very glamourous today as it was shrouded by the misinterpretations and

>misrepresentations of the later historians of this country.

>

>

>The aim of the present conference is to establish the

>existence

>of early Christianity in Indian soil with objective and well

>documented

>evidences and to study its strong impact on medieval and classical

>India

>until the advent of Vasco de Gama whose epoch - making visit

>inaugurated a

>new chapter in the cultural, and political history of this great

>nation.

>We are sure that the reconstruction of the early Christianity in India

>will

>shed new light on the history of Indian Philosophy and Indian Culture

>in

>general and this will give new orientation and new perspective to

>our

>understanding of the classical and medieval culture and civilization.

>The

>so-called Hindu historians of our day failed to see the history of India

>as

>a whole since their approaches are partial and fragmentary giving

>stress

>only to Hinduism neglecting the other forces instrumental for the

>building

>up of Indian culture. What we need to day is a wholesome and complete

>view

>of the Indian culture with objective assessment of the internal as well

>as

>external evidences and balanced presentation of facts. We are sure

>that

>this conference will throw new light not only on the early Christianity

>of

>India but also to help to reconstruct the history of India as a whole.

>

>Proposed Topics - Tentative

>

>

>1. History of Christianity in India - Problems and Perspectives

>2. Advent of St. Thomas.

>3. Land and Sea-routes of the early Christian Missionaries

>4. The countries from where Christian Missionaries came and the

>geographical areas of their activities.

>5. Early Christianity and the important sea-ports of India

>6. Early Christian activities in India - An overview

>7. Early Christians in Tamilnadu

>8. Early Christians and Sangam Tamil Society.

>9. Early Christianity with special reference to Canron in Sangam

>Literature

>and Thirukkural.

>10. Early Christians in Malabar.

>11. Early Christians in North India.

>12. Early Christian Missionaries and Martyrs.

>13. The External History of Early Christianity - An overview

>14. Advent of St. Bartholomew

>15. Foreign Records on St. Bartholomew.

>16. Apocrypha & early Christianity in India

>17. Acts of St. Thomas

>18. Gospel of St. Thomas

>19. St. Thomas and the North Indian king Gondabarus.

>20. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Greeks - North India)

>21. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Romans - South India)

>23. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Jews and Syrians)

>23. The Churches established by St. Thomas

>24. St.Thomas - Santhome and Mylapore

>25. Mylapore and Christianity

>26. Tirukkural and Christianity

>27. Inscriptions in St. Thomas Mount.

>28. An objective assessment of the various traditions on St. Thomas

>29. Christianity and its impact on earlier indigenous texts

>30. Early Christianity and Oral traditions

>31. Linguistic evidences

>32. Excavations etc.

>33. Christianity and the origin of Sanskrit.

>34. Christianity and Indian Myths.

>35. Christianity and Early Indian literature.

>36. Christianity and Indian Theology.

>37. Early Indian Christianity- Numismatic evidences.

>38. Early Indian Christianity- Iconographic evidences.

>39. Early Indian Christianity- Epigraphic evidences.

>40. Thomas of Cana and Syriac traditions

>41. Nestorians and Syrian Christians

>42. Foreign Records on Early Christianity - An overview

>43. Hebrew

>44. Greek

>45. Syriac

>46. Ethiopic

>47. Arabic

>48. Persian

>49. Latin

>50. Coptic

>51. Spanish

>52. Italian

>53. Armenian

>54. Sanskrit

>55. Records in other languages

>56. Characteristic features of Early Christianity

>57. Other foreign reports on Medieval Christianity

>58. Marcopolo's report about Christianity in Mylapore.

>59. Divisions and Denominations in Early Christianity.

>60. Early Christianity and Native Culture - An overview

>61. Buddhism and Christianity

>62. Christ versus Krishna - concepts and mythmaking

>63. The second coming of Christ and Maitreya Buddha

>64. Christianity and Bodhisatva

>65. Impact of Trinity in Hinduism

>66. Christianity and Saktham

>67. Christianity and Saivism

>68. Christianity and Vaishnavism

>69. Christianity and Kaumaram

>70. Christianity and Ganapathyam

>71. Christianity and Sowram

>72. Christianity and the Brahmasutra.

>73. Christianity and the Bhagavat Gita

>74. Christianity and the Six Dharshanas.

>75. Christianity and Advaida.

>76. Christianity and Vedanta.

>77. Christianity and Agamas.

>78. Christianity and the Upanishads.

>79. Christianity and the Ithihasas.

>80. Christianity and the Siddhar Movement.

>81. Impact of Christianity in devotional literature

>82. Marriage metaphor in Indian Literature.

>83. The theme of suffering in Job and Harichandra.

>84. Bible and the Oriental images.

>85. Oriental themes and expressions in the Bible

>86. Mode of worship among early Christians

>87. Liturgy and devotional literature in early Christianity

>88. Shared features of early Indian Christianity with the Oriental

>Christianity in other parts of Asia.

>89. Impact of Early Christianity on Indian life - An overview.

>90. Culture

>91. Art and Architecture

>92. Performing Arts

>93. Folk traditions

>94. Literature

>95. Language

>96. Royal patronage for Christianity

>97. Christianity and Indian Political history

>98. Christianity and Indian Social history.

>99. Early Christianity in other parts of Asia.

>100. Dilution and Corruption in Early Indian Christianity.

>101. Restoration of Early Indian Christianity.

>102. Symbols of Early Indian Christianity.

>103. Roots of Sikkhism and Early Indian Christianity.

>104. Early Christianity in Kerala.

>105. St. Thomas Christians in the Context of Indian Culture.

>

>

>Execution of the Project

>

>There shall be three important main committees with a number

>of

>sub-committees to monitor and execute the project. Delegates will

>be

>selected and invited from various organisations all over the

>world.

>Persons who have done intensive study on the above topics will be

>invited

>as delegates.

>

>I. International Advisory Committee

>

>A committee consisting of 12 scholars of international

>repute

>may be constituted to offer guidelines on the methodology, thematic

>treatment and in editing the papers.

>

>II. International Organising Committee

>

>A Committee consisting of 12 representatives from

>various

>countries and Organisations all over the world will be constituted to

>offer

>guidelines and suggestions in the successful conduct of the

>conference

>programmes.

>

>III. Working Committee

>

>A Committee consisting of few local representatives has been

>constituted to monitor and execute this project with the help of the

>various sub-committees constituted to look after the variety of works.

>

>Conference Programme - Tentative

>

>The programme shall continue for five days with an inaugural

>session, a valedictory session and eight academic sessions which will be

>divided into many more sub-sessions depending upon the number of

>papers.

>There shall be five cultural programmes in the evenings. The programme

>is

>fixed tentatively to July 2005. The seminar papers will be published in

>4

>volumes.

>

>Style-Sheet for Contributors

>

>1. The total number of pages of research papers shall vary from 15 to

>45

>depending upon the data available and the nature of

>interpretations

>required.

>

>2. Manuscripts should be submitted in duplicate. They must be typed

>or

>printed on one side only; double-spaced with sufficient margins on

>all

>sides to facilitate editing and styling. All notes should also be typed

>or

>printed double-spaced.

>

>3. Notes should be consecutively numbered and presented at the end of

>the

>paper.

>

>4. Lengthy quotations should start on a separate line and be

>indented;

>shorter quotations should run into the text with

>single

>quotation marks.

>

>5. Citations from archival sources must specify the archival

>location

>including the town and country where an archive is located. In

>case

>of recorded oral material, the location of the recording should

>be

>specified. In other cases, the name and location of the oral

>informant

>should be clearly stated. For inscriptions, the title of the volume

>with

>publication details should be mentioned. For other details kindly

>follow

>the "M.L.A. Handbook for Writers of Research Paper". (fifth edition)

>or

>"Writing Research Papers - A guide" by James. D. Lister.

>

>This Conference is organised jointly by the

>Institute

>of Asian Studies, Chennai, India, The Centre for the Study of

>Christian

>Literature and Culture in Indian Languages (CSCLC), Chennai, India, and

>few

>other academic centres of advanced research in other countries. For

>more

>informations about the Institute of Asian Studies and the CSCLC

>visit

>xlweb.com/heritage/asian and www.csclc.org.

>

>For further details on the Conference, please contact:

>

>Dr. G. John Samuel

>Founder-Director,

>Institute of Asian Studies,

>Chemmancherry, Sholinganallur P.O.

>

>Institute of Asian Studies home page

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

><http://in.rd./specials/mailtg/*http://.shaadi.com/india-matri

>mony/> India Matrimony: Find your life partner online

><http://in.rd./specials/mailtg2/*http://.shaadi.com/india-matr

>imony/> .

>

>This is an information resource and discussion group for people interested

>in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical,

>archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism,

>God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome.

>Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is the natural

>state of a society that is in harmony with God and the environment.Om

>Shantih, Harih Om

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

><http://us.ard./SIG=129ln3nbi/M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=gr

>oups/S=1705043628:HM/EXP=1100693056/A=2426683/R=0/SIG=11eeoolb0/*http://www.

>netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185400> click here

>

><http://us.adserver./l?M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=groups/S=

>:HM/A=2426683/rand=733457748>

>

> _____

>

> Links

>

>

>*

>vediculture/

>

>

>*

>vediculture

><vediculture?subject=Un>

>

>

>* Terms of Service

><> .

>

>