India's only problem: Unity

[Guest guest]

Rajiv,

 

I simply suggest that it may be a consideration to give these Christian/Muslim

groups time and encouragement to find the host of favorable correlations

between our two cultures for themselves. Then, we can provide the irrefutable

and obvious proof of Vedic cultures antiquity as both the older as well as

causal influence in this equation of historic precedence and impact of one

culture over the other. This is a strategic consideration more then one

founded upon some 'foolhardy..colonized condition.'

 

I followed this recommendation with an example where this very scenario had

already played out beautifully when it was attempted by the Catholic church

some 80 years ago. Indians were horrified when church attempted to correlate

and take credit for Krsna Lila as a biblical influence. In time, however, the

chruch found themselves cornered as mounting evidence demonstrated Krsna's

historic seniority over Christ’s' appearance. The church locked its

findings away and dropped the matter completely. The difference with today's

latest efforts is that it is not a single institution that can cover its tracts

so easily once the correlations have been publicly established.

 

Many things that may initially appear 'bad' can sometimes prove more beneficial

in the long run then possible without such seeming misfortunes. I simply

offered this possibility and a strategy that may prove more effective then this

reactive stance that can seem more desperate then strong. We want to posture

from a position of authority and confidence. We may even feed these groups a

number of favorable correlations which could very well change the entire

chemistry of their attitudes. A change of heart is really what we should be

aiming to accomplish - that everyone finds their affections for Bhagavan.

 

It is your sharp wit that makes you such an interesting read, yet such gifts of

mind and words can sometimes leave one overly confident in their assumptions of

people, issues and approaches. As it is said: it is hard for a genius to think

there could be another way that is legitimate or superior to their own idea.

The result can be disdain and alarm for those who offer such alternatives.

 

Your experience must have left you with a distaste for the culturally lazy. It

can be exsaperating dealing with those illiterate to the intricacies of

philosophical distinctions and those blinded to the potential degradation for

an over reaching need of accommodation and acceptance from peoples of hostile

cultures. Yet, those who offer alternative considerations to your own does not

automatically qualify them to be like this or as you put it: of the 'moron

smriti.'

 

It appears you think I am an Indian Hindu trying to placate as some feel Indians

too often try to do. Yes, I've spent 5 years in India as a boy and youth

attending school over a 10 year period. But, I grew up a missionary man

preaching over 3 continents in a dozen countries to thousands of people over

these last 35 years. I did this however, as a native born Caucasian American

introducing an alternative culture to my own colonial kin in the West. I also

did this for your fellow country men both in India and abroad who where so

often passive or aggressively resistant to Vedic culture. This included several

years extensively traveling and preaching in India on trains, carts, buses and

planes as well as pandal programssmall and large - 20,000 people strong. In

short, I have been subjected to all the same resistance and ignorance you may

have faced and yet, I have not felt this right to be dismissive in my dealings.

 

 

Indians feel confident of their insight to colonialism from their 2nd hand

experience of colonial Muslim/British rule. (Most of those under the British

Raj have now passed away). Yet, there is a great deal of insight in the

sufferings of Hawaiians, Indians, blacks and South Americans. Their experience

offer another layer of insight that only magnifies the colonial exploitation in

ways many Indians have not considered. It is with the urgency and clarity of

this insight that I take the time to concern myself with 'your' cause.

 

Your reaction to me was a surprise and seemed flippant. I hope that this

incident will offer a reminder to all of us to maintain a greater sense of

respect to our fellow comrades in arms of the Vedic cause if not all others.

Even when we may feel there is some disagreement.

 

This is very important because it brings us to your final point of having been

'marginalized (to) our share of the earth steadily.' This is really due to the

influence of Kali yuga which is founded upon quarrel. Kali could only find its

foot hold because of the corruption of the Brahmans and ksatriya's taken by

pride.

 

Pride took the Brahmin’s humility away that is so critical in seeing the

truth and dharma of people and the world while the ksatriya's pride left their

sense of empathy falter to the point where the national unity collapsed. As

much as we blame the Muslims and British, they were simply opportunist and only

found their footing in India's failure to unify as one. Any real progress we

realize today will be decided in large part by how well we can work in unity

with respect if not affection as one. Hopefully, we have learned this single

most critical lesson from the centuries of foriegn dominaiton. I hope this

letter can reminds us of that.

 

 

Raghunatha anudasa

 

 

 

 

Rajiv.Malhotra (AT) att (DOT) net [Rajiv.Malhotra (AT) att (DOT) net] Saturday,

November 20, 2004 1:38 PMRaghu; 'A. Srinivasa Murthy'; 'Aditi Banerjee';

'indrani rampersad'; 'krishnan'; 'Sam Garg'RE: Missionary attempts to

distort Indian History

This is one of the moron smritis: all is well, we are invincible, the other is a

fool even though he has marignalized our share of the earth steadily, we have

all these mantras...

Fanon explained this internalization by the colonized as the necessary

condition for colonizing to work.

its better for a person to say, "I have not time or capability to do this

critical task," than to say either that it is already taken care of or that

there is no need for it. these are a disservice by the foolhardy.

 

-------------- Original message from "Raghu" <raghu (AT) roopa (DOT) org>: --------------

The good Lord has found a sly way to expose these poeple to Bhakti. He could

only do so under the guise of cultural pride. The unwitting result is that

these hard core followers will simply become attracted to these extraordinary

considerations of Vedic culture and in time, see that the practices of Bhakti

and the host of other powerful principles predate and in fact were the causel

influence in Christian Muslim faiths rather then thier intended purpose of

discreding Vedic culture by staking claim to its finer aspects as the result of

colonial British influence.

 

It has happened before when the church made a great effort to draw the

correlation between Christian narrations and those of Krsna with the intended

purpose to show that Krsna was taken from biblical influences. Within just a

couple years of completing this decades long project, it was quietly dropped

and tucked away as evidence mounted that Krsna and the stories surrounding his

pastimes clearly predated Christianity.

 

This latest effort will do the same as they do all the foot work to establish

the correlations and influence of Christianity over Vedic culture and then in

the end, a growing number of archeological and historical accounts will reverse

the order of these events that they had maticulously documented. This will lock

them into a corner wherein the influence of these principles is unmistable and

yet, the proof of Vedic culture both predating and providing a leading influence

in these other religions will be difficult for them to then distance from. This

is terrific news if you ask me.

 

If they know that we are in fact very enthusiastic for them to start this

journey because of our complete confidence of the end result, it would do far

more to rattle their convictions and enthusiam then to start argueing our

points now before they have even identified in detail the areas they wish to

use as the historical anchor for such a task. I think we should let them know

of our total support and encouragement and why we are lending it. It will leave

them to second guess themselves in ways that will soften the ground for our

later refutation of their work.

 

 

 

rajiv malhotra [rajiv.malhotra (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.net] Sunday,

November 07, 2004 10:53 AMA. Srinivasa Murthy; Aditi Banerjee; indrani

rampersad; krishnan; Sam GargFW: Missionary attempts to distort Indian

History

ULTIMATELY THIS GOES BEYOND RELIGION AND IS ABOUT IMPERIALISM:

 

Sanjay, Srinivasa, Krishnan, Indrani, Aditi, since you live in NY area, are you

planning to attend the following event in august 2005?

 

This is a part of what has been going on as a massive organized and well funded

program to rewrite history, so as to show that Hinduism was derived from early

Christianity.

 

Stage 1 of making Hinduism illegitimate was to show that Hinduism originated in

British colonial times. But many items could not be explained as they were

earlier. Stage 2 was to show that these came from islam – such as bhakti.

Hawley is leading these stages.

 

Stage 3 is now to go even deeper and show how early Christianity brought even

those aspects that Muslims or British did not.

 

Years ago, I heard the scholar in charge of the 15 volume Mahabharata project of

which half the volumes are done already. He made the statement that Gita should

be dated at around 5th century CE. (This in my opinion gives them enough time

to make it fit into the Christian origins of Gita.) He said that Gita was

grafted into what was a violence prone religion, just to make Mahabharata look

mild and ethical. This is far more insidious than the Aryan invasion theory.

 

So the strategy is grand and long term. Look at the way mentioned in the

announcement they have divided into teams with plans etc. Look at the list of

topics at the end into which they organized the work to be done. THEY MEAN

BUSINESS. They do have enormous library archives as Christian institutions took

control over most documents and never returned them. Access is also limited to

insiders in many instances and/or at very heavy fees which Indian scholars

cannot afford. (CK Raju told me that many Vatican translations/appropriations

from Indian mathematics and science are in old manuscripts that are not given

access to outside scholars – he has tried.)

 

In contrast with clarity of purpose and concreteness of plans, Hindus scholars

(the very few that are there) are lost in nostalgia and chauvinist optimism

about 5,000 years old invincibility via mantras, and other lofty baloney. They

are too deeply stuck with their heads in sand to be able to assess threats and

pick their intellectual battles accordingly. Many are also lost in the

“sameness” nonsense.

 

If someone plans to submit them proposals for papers and/or participate let me know.

 

Does anyone know who are their funding sources – Pew, Templeton, Seminaries...?

 

 

 

sri gp [tstsvai ] Sunday,

November 07, 2004 4:00 AMrajiv.malhotra (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.netSubject: Missionary

attempts to distort Indian History

 

Please suggest ways to counter and put a full stop to this missionary attempt to

distort Indian History.

There is no integrated set up to defend Hindus at the level of conferences,

seminars and proceedings, where much is done by the enemies of Hinduism .

Missionaries have a corporate set up, and are able to organise themselves. Now

they are carrying the distortion into the heart of American financial capital -

New York .

Please visit www hamsa.org first - to have full grasp of the subject before.

thanks,

truely,

Srinivasan GP

-----------------Link

for the

conference:http://www.xlweb.com/heritage/asian/christianity-conference.htm

FIRST INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE / SEMINAR ON THE HISTORY OF EARLY CHRISTIANITY IN INDIA

(From the advent of St. Thomas to Vasco de Gama)

(13th – 16th August 2005 in New York)

 

The history of Christianity in India is traceable to the advent of

St. Thomas soon after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. But this has been a

subject of controversy for a long time owing to lack of documentary evidences.

Now, we are able to get lot of evidences both internal and external to testify

to the existence early Christianity in India from the period of St. Thomas.

History in early India is different from history as conceived in

Europe and other countries. There was no pure historical document in India

with chronological details and whatever is available as ancient historical

documents are a blending of historical facts with fictional elements.

Literatures were the main sources for reconstructing history and they were not

very particular in documenting facts as they were but in depicting facts as the

author of the text interpreted in his own impressionistic way. Consequently,

there are lot of mythicization in the so-called historical materials and any

attempt to demythicize them will sometime leads to distortion of history.

There are two important views about the origin of Christianity in

India ; One holds that Christianity came to India through the works of the

apostles St. Thomas & St. Bartholomew. The other view is that the merchants

and the missionaries of East Syrian or Persian Church brought Christianity to

India. The Indian tradition on the advent of St. Thomas to Malabar seems to be

a very concrete tradition supported by lot of historical evidences. The Acts of

Judas Thomas written in Syriac by the Edezza circle in 3rd century A.D. seems to

be the earliest record that speaks about this tradition. In addition to this, a

number of stray passages in the writings of Origen, Eusebius of Caesarea,

Rufinus of Aquileia, Socrates, Ephrem of Nisibis, Gregory Nizianzus, Ambrose

and Jerome speak about the visit of St. Thomas to India, even though there are

still some others who deny this claim. St. Ephrem composed hymns glorifying

St.Thomas whose relics were being venerated in a shrine at Edizza where this

great Syrian poet - theologian was living.

Another work namely The Teaching of the Apostles in Syriac

(Didascalia) also speaks about the same tradition. According to this work

“India and all its own countries and those bordering on it even to the

farther sea, receives the Apostles hand of the priest hood from Judas Thomas,

who was guide and ruler in the Church he built there”. There is another

tradition which speaks at length about the advent of St. Bartholomew to India.

But we are not able to come across adequate internal evidences although St.

Jerome and Eusebius of Caesarea of the 4th century AD speak about this

tradition. These two writers refer to this tradition while speaking about the

visit of Pantaenous to India in the 2nd century A.D.

According to Eusebius , “Pantaenous is said to have gone among

the Indians where a report is that he discovered there the Gospel according to

St. Matthew among some who knew Christ ; Bartholomew, one of the Apostles had

preached to them and had left them the writings of St. Matthew in Hebrew

letters. According to St. Jerome, Demetrius, Bishop of Alexandria, sent

Pantaenous to India”. But few other scholars deny the advent of

Bartholomew to India and according to them, Jerome would have mistaken Ethiopia

to India. But scholars like A.C. Perumalil and G.M. Moraes proved the

otherwise. According to them, Bombay region on the Konkan coast may be the

place referred to with regard to the visit of Bartholomew. Since the traditions

about Bartholomew and St. Thomas intermingled, the references about Bartholomew

might have been lost in course of time. According to A.C. Perumalil,

Bartholomew Christians continued as a separate community until the coming of

the Portuguese and then merged with the Christians of Bombay.

The South Indian tradition about St. Thomas is preserved in an oral

tradition and in the tradition about St. Thomas Christians who claim their

Christian origin from St. Thomas. Historians consider the Coromandal tradition

of St. Thomas as very ancient to the Malabar tradition. The Malabar tradition

about St. Thomas is comparatively later but it is strong and vital. This

tradition associates St. Thomas with definite places and specific families.

The Malabar tradition which associates St. Thomas with Palaiyur, Parur,

Kokkamangalam and Niranam is not contradicting with any other tradition. The

Coromondal tradition centres on Mylapore where the tomb of the apostle is

pointed out. Marcopolo, the Venetian travellor, visited the tomb in A.D.1295

and no rival tradition has contradicted this tradition. It is said that the

Christians of Malabar enjoyed peace during the early centuries and they were

supported by Non-Christian rulers. There is a tradition that St. Thomas

conferred priesthood in the members of certain families in Malabar.

The Early Christian community in India is alleged to have suffered

decline in due course and it was constituted by groups of Christians who came

from Persia and hence there were close relationship between Christianity in

India and the Early Church of Persia. The Chronicle of Seert, an important

East Syrian document of 7th century AD makes reference to a Bishop namely

David who evangelised the Indian people between 250 - 300 AD. In the list of

the 325 Bishops who attended the Nicaean Council is mentioned one John of

Persian, who, according to the History of Gelasius, was bishop of the whole of

Persia and Greater India.

Many groups of East Syrian Christians are often mentioned as

migrated to Malabar. Among them one group is associated with Thomas of Cana

(4th C. AD) and another with two saintly men Sapor and Potto (of 9th or 10th C.

AD). The Malabar tradition whether recorded by the Portugese or local accounts,

is always careful to distinguish Thomas, the Apostle from Thomas of Cana.

Somehow or other, East Syrian Church was looked upon by the

Portugese in 16th C. AD. and by some western missionary with suspicion. They

accused the Thomas Christians of fallen into the heresy of Nestorianism which

the Thomas Christians vehemently deny.

Christianity in the Tamilnadu during this phase of early history was

a very potential force and its ethics and other theological codes find powerful

expression even in secular Tamil Classics like Tirukkural and Naladiyar. Its

impact is felt in the native worship and especially in the local religions like

Saivism and Vaishnavism. It is obvious that India received a number of

missionaries many of whom belonged to Asia and other parts of the world. The

Yavanar, probably people from Greece and Rome, spread the message of

Christianity in the length and breadth of Indian soil.

Anyhow, we are able to understand that Christianity was deeply

rooted in the Indian milieu, thanks to the works of proselytism by men of

eminence starting from St. Thomas. But most of the records have been lost or

destroyed and Christianity might have underwent lot of sea-changes owing to

many a time of adversity faced by it. It has left its strong impact on the

other religions of India ; it was instrumental for the emergence many number

of Indian religions. Its presence is felt in all religions of India in various

forms. Its impact on the emergence of Mahayana Buddhism, especially in the

conception of the Bodhisatva as well as the second coming of the Maitreya

Buddha, is indeed marvelous. The Early Indian Christianity, which was a part

and parcel of the ancient oriental Christianity, gave strength and vigour to

Indian culture and Indian ethos in multifarious ways. The deep impact

exerted by the early Christianity in the early Indian ethos was indeed

tremendous although its physical presence was not very glamourous today as it

was shrouded by the misinterpretations and misrepresentations of the later

historians of this country.

The aim of the present conference is to establish the existence of

early Christianity in Indian soil with objective and well documented evidences

and to study its strong impact on medieval and classical India until the advent

of Vasco de Gama whose epoch - making visit inaugurated a new chapter in the

cultural, and political history of this great nation. We are sure that the

reconstruction of the early Christianity in India will shed new light on the

history of Indian Philosophy and Indian Culture in general and this will give

new orientation and new perspective to our understanding of the classical and

medieval culture and civilization. The so-called Hindu historians of our day

failed to see the history of India as a whole since their approaches are

partial and fragmentary giving stress only to Hinduism neglecting the other

forces instrumental for the building up of Indian culture. What we need to day

is a wholesome and complete view of the Indian culture with objective assessment

of the internal as well as external evidences and balanced presentation of

facts. We are sure that this conference will throw new light not only on the

early Christianity of India but also to help to reconstruct the history of

India as a whole.

 

Proposed Topics - Tentative

1. History of Christianity in India - Problems and Perspectives

2. Advent of St. Thomas.

3. Land and Sea-routes of the early Christian Missionaries

4. The countries from where Christian Missionaries came and the geographical

areas of their activities.

5. Early Christianity and the important sea-ports of India

6. Early Christian activities in India - An overview

7. Early Christians in Tamilnadu

8. Early Christians and Sangam Tamil Society.

9. Early Christianity with special reference to Canron in Sangam Literature and Thirukkural.

10. Early Christians in Malabar.

11. Early Christians in North India.

12. Early Christian Missionaries and Martyrs.

13. The External History of Early Christianity - An overview

14. Advent of St. Bartholomew

15. Foreign Records on St. Bartholomew.

16. Apocrypha & early Christianity in India

17. Acts of St. Thomas

18. Gospel of St. Thomas

19. St. Thomas and the North Indian king Gondabarus.

20. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Greeks - North India)

21. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Romans - South India)

23. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Jews and Syrians)

23. The Churches established by St. Thomas

24. St.Thomas - Santhome and Mylapore

25. Mylapore and Christianity

26. Tirukkural and Christianity

27. Inscriptions in St. Thomas Mount.

28. An objective assessment of the various traditions on St. Thomas

29. Christianity and its impact on earlier indigenous texts

30. Early Christianity and Oral traditions

31. Linguistic evidences

32. Excavations etc.

33. Christianity and the origin of Sanskrit.

34. Christianity and Indian Myths.

35. Christianity and Early Indian literature.

36. Christianity and Indian Theology.

37. Early Indian Christianity- Numismatic evidences.

38. Early Indian Christianity- Iconographic evidences.

39. Early Indian Christianity- Epigraphic evidences.

40. Thomas of Cana and Syriac traditions

41. Nestorians and Syrian Christians

42. Foreign Records on Early Christianity - An overview

43. Hebrew

44. Greek

45. Syriac

46. Ethiopic

47. Arabic

48. Persian

49. Latin

50. Coptic

51. Spanish

52. Italian

53. Armenian

54. Sanskrit

55. Records in other languages

56. Characteristic features of Early Christianity

57. Other foreign reports on Medieval Christianity

58. Marcopolo’s report about Christianity in Mylapore.

59. Divisions and Denominations in Early Christianity.

60. Early Christianity and Native Culture - An overview

61. Buddhism and Christianity

62. Christ versus Krishna - concepts and mythmaking

63. The second coming of Christ and Maitreya Buddha

64. Christianity and Bodhisatva

65. Impact of Trinity in Hinduism

66. Christianity and Saktham

67. Christianity and Saivism

68. Christianity and Vaishnavism

69. Christianity and Kaumaram

70. Christianity and Ganapathyam

71. Christianity and Sowram

72. Christianity and the Brahmasutra.

73. Christianity and the Bhagavat Gita

74. Christianity and the Six Dharshanas.

75. Christianity and Advaida.

76. Christianity and Vedanta.

77. Christianity and Agamas.

78. Christianity and the Upanishads.

79. Christianity and the Ithihasas.

80. Christianity and the Siddhar Movement.

81. Impact of Christianity in devotional literature

82. Marriage metaphor in Indian Literature.

83. The theme of suffering in Job and Harichandra.

84. Bible and the Oriental images.

85. Oriental themes and expressions in the Bible

86. Mode of worship among early Christians

87. Liturgy and devotional literature in early Christianity

88. Shared features of early Indian Christianity with the Oriental Christianity

in other parts of Asia.

89. Impact of Early Christianity on Indian life - An overview.

90. Culture

91. Art and Architecture

92. Performing Arts

93. Folk traditions

94. Literature

95. Language

96. Royal patronage for Christianity

97. Christianity and Indian Political history

98. Christianity and Indian Social history.

99. Early Christianity in other parts of Asia.

100. Dilution and Corruption in Early Indian Christianity.

101. Restoration of Early Indian Christianity.

102. Symbols of Early Indian Christianity.

103. Roots of Sikkhism and Early Indian Christianity.

104. Early Christianity in Kerala.

105. St. Thomas Christians in the Context of Indian Culture.

 

Execution of the Project

 

There shall be three important main committees with a number of

sub-committees to monitor and execute the project. Delegates will be selected

and invited from various organisations all over the world. Persons who have

done intensive study on the above topics will be invited as delegates.

I. International Advisory Committee

 

A committee consisting of 12 scholars of international repute may be

constituted to offer guidelines on the methodology, thematic treatment and in

editing the papers.

II. International Organising Committee

 

A Committee consisting of 12 representatives from various countries

and Organisations all over the world will be constituted to offer guidelines

and suggestions in the successful conduct of the conference programmes.

III. Working Committee

A Committee consisting of few local representatives has been

constituted to monitor and execute this project with the help of the various

sub-committees constituted to look after the variety of works.

 

Conference Programme – Tentative

 

The programme shall continue for five days with an inaugural

session, a valedictory session and eight academic sessions which will be

divided into many more sub-sessions depending upon the number of papers.

There shall be five cultural programmes in the evenings. The programme is fixed

tentatively to July 2005. The seminar papers will be published in 4 volumes.

 

 

Style-Sheet for Contributors

 

1. The total number of pages of research papers shall vary from 15 to 45

depending upon the data available and the nature of interpretations required.

2. Manuscripts should be submitted in duplicate. They must be typed or printed

on one side only; double-spaced with sufficient margins on all sides to

facilitate editing and styling. All notes should also be typed or printed

double-spaced.

3. Notes should be consecutively numbered and presented at the end of the paper.

4. Lengthy quotations should start on a separate line and be indented; shorter

quotations should run into the text with single quotation

marks.

5. Citations from archival sources must specify the archival location including

the town and country where an archive is located. In case of recorded

oral material, the location of the recording should be specified. In other

cases, the name and location of the oral informant should be clearly stated.

For inscriptions, the title of the volume with publication details should be

mentioned. For other details kindly follow the “M.L.A. Handbook for

Writers of Research Paper”. (fifth edition) or “Writing Research

Papers – A guide” by James. D. Lister.

 

This Conference is organised jointly by the Institute of

Asian Studies, Chennai, India, The Centre for the Study of Christian Literature

and Culture in Indian Languages (CSCLC), Chennai, India, and few other academic

centres of advanced research in other countries. For more informations about

the Institute of Asian Studies and the CSCLC visit xlweb.com/heritage/asian and

www.csclc.org.

 

For further details on the Conference, please contact:

Dr. G. John Samuel

Founder-Director,

Institute of Asian Studies,

Chemmancherry, Sholinganallur P.O.

 

 

Institute of Asian Studies home page

 

 

 

Check out the new Front Page. www.