Karma 2 Grace: dialogue between Christians and Hindus?

[Guest guest]

Yes.

This site is a madman's site full of motives only to dethrone nd criticise Hindu

practices and comparing with Christianity which as the truth is, does not have

any philosophy woth tghe name and has only evangelists who are paid fanaticsIt

is not a dialogue at all only monologue with self proclaimed Robertson as

Pundit. Why does he use the pure Sanskrit word pundit >

Sooner they are removed from mother earth or atleast from Bharat mata's soil bettre for the world.

As the famous British Phoilosopher A.N. Whitehead put

"Christianity is the greatest disasters of the modesrn civilisation" this

disaster which shouts so much on Grace of God kept mute when Hitler annihilated

Jews during II world war! Such is the grace of God!!

 

Ganesan

-

vrnparker

vediculture

Sunday, August 01, 2004 4:33 AM

[world-vedic] Karma 2 Grace: dialogue between Christians and Hindus?

"George" <george@g...> wrote:This site is a typical example of the renewed trend

among certain blindbelievers of the Christian faith who make a charade in

religiousknowledge.In this case, it is one Wyatt Robertson who poses as an

expert not only inChristianity, but also in the Vedas. On the home page though

(seebelow) itis mentioned, "This site is maintained by Christians who are

friends ofHindus." As one may imagine, and as the name Karma-Hindu

toGrace-Christiandenotes, it is an attempt by a wicked enemy of Hinduism to

trap well-read,but unwitting Hindus. By using quotations at random from both

thebible andthe Vedic scriptures, Robertson first appears to compare

similarconcepts ineach of them, but then goes on to pronounce very subtly

thatChristianity isthe practical expression or Grace of that which is found in

Hinduism andtherefore, the better opton. In the section termed 'Life

Stories,'there arealso supposedly actual stories of conversions of caste Hindus

intoChristianity.There is a section called 'Ask the Pundits,' where the said

Robertsonoffersanswers for all your doubts about Jesus and the Vedas. I have

justsent in aquery as follows:"According to Jesus, the poor are blessed.

According to Siva, speakingthrough Sage Vasishta, poverty is hell. Both cannot

be correct at the sametime. What do you say about this?"I am waiting for the

answer...G<http://www.karma2grace.org/> http://www.karma2grace.org/Karma to

Grace is a web site designed to promote dialogue betweenChristiansand Hindus.

The immediate aim of Karma to Grace is to present a comparisonand contrast of

and between the ideas of Christianity and Hinduism. It isour desire to present

these ideas accurately and fairly. We want tosee thebasic concepts of Hinduism

and Christianity explained and understood.Thoughyou may not agree with

everything presented here, we hope you will gain agreater understanding of the

teachings of Hinduism and of Christianity. Insome cases there are parallels in

these teachings, and in some cases thereare deep contrasts. We hope you will

respect our attempt to let each ideaspeak for itself. There are several aspects

of this site. The goal of dialogue and accurateexplanation is aimed at in the

first aspect of the site, the "Articles"section, as well as most of the other

sections. The "Life Stories" section is a collection of true stories of

thosewho havecome from Karma to Grace, as the name of the web site suggests.

This site is maintained by Christians who are friends of Hindus. Ifyou area

Christian, we hope these ideas will clarify the teachings of Jesus andgive you

a basic grasp of Hinduism. If you are a Hindu, we hope that theseideas will

clarify the teachings of Hinduism and give you a basic grasp ofthe teachings of

Jesus. We hope the truth will speak for itself.[Non-text portions of this

message have been removed]--- End forwarded message ---This is an information

resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient

Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific

aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World

Culture are welcome.Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition,

but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the

environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om

[Guest guest]

Here's my short exchange with these folks:

 

Jan

10-May-04 07:28 (09:28 +0200)

info

pundits?

---------------------------

Namaste,

 

I don't know by which standard you call yourself 'pundits' but the

information level of your articles is quite low and they are often

misleading. This can be understood if the prime purpose of your site

is, contrary to your mission statement, a missionary activity but not

pursuit of truth. Also the conversion stories suggest the earlier as

they are always part of similar missionary sites.

 

The majority hindu (correctly "Vedic") tradition is Vaisnavism. Please

upgrade your knowledge of it from genuine sources like Srimad

Bhagavata Purana, other Vaisnava Puranas, writings of Vaisnava

acaryas, etc.

 

Your understanding of hinduism comes from academic books related to

current general hinduism which is rather degraded with its castes

defined by birth, deva worship, etc., without deeper insight. At least

you repeat all their misconceptions. Thus Trinity is not analogous to

Trimurti Brahma-Visnu-Siva but to Krishna-Balarama-Paramatma; the

grace - called prasada or anugraha - is very much present in

Vaisnavism; there is cosmic sacrifice of Rg Vedic Purusa; there is a

big difference between murtis and idols; the purpose of Vedic samhitas

is different from Upanisads - therefore there is no reincarnation

mentioned in them and the language is also different; there is

a judgement after death; etc.

 

For comparisons I suggest the writings of Brother David Sherman aka

Bhakti Ananda Goswami at

http://vaisnavi.com/saragrahi/columns/one/main.htm

 

This letter is just to inform you, not to start a debate.

 

All glory to the Lord, His Son and Holy Spirit.

 

Your servant, bh. Jan

www.veda.harekrsna.cz

 

Internet: "Info" <info karma2grace.org>

21-May-04 00:37 (20:37 -0400)

Jan

reply to your concern

---------------------------

 

BH,

Thank you so much for your input and interest in this site. Your

concern for the Vaishnavite aspects of Hinduism is a valid concern. As you

know, Hinduism is not one monolithic religion, but a conglomeration of

different religions that happen to share some basic common doctrines. We try

not to step into the middle of any contention between Hindu groups about ‘who

is the real Hindu,’ or ‘who is the best’ or ‘who is the most faithful to

the

Vedas,’ etc. Our articles try to remain general, but as you have pointed out,

there are a few points where will not be exactly on the mark with Hare Krishnas

or Tantras or Sai Baba or New Age or Vendatic Hinduism. Names and tags are

difficult as some groups use them with different meanings (e.g. “Vedicâ€).

As

you listed several of your concerns, I can see where the Vaishnavite views, and

specifically the devotees of Krishna will not see their viewpoint represented

in a few points (e.g. Krishna- Balarama-Paramatma as the Trimurti). However,

most of your points I think are clearly in the scope of this site.

We have lived in India, met with Hindu students groups to discuss

Hinduism, met with temple priests, dialogued in public with Hindus, etc. If

you think we have unfairly represented Hinduism, it would be helpful for you to

be specific with the article section of the site and point out where we can be

more correct. We are very open to amending anything there that is not true if

that can accurately be pointed out to us. We have actually made a few small

changes from others who have made suggestions

Thank you again for you interest and the time you took to email us.

Wyatt, for Karma to Grace

 

Jan

21-May-04 11:16 (13:16 +0200)

"Info" <info karma2grace.org>

reply to your concern

---------------------------

Namaste Wyatt,

 

thanks for your reply.

 

> We try not to step into the middle of any

> contention between Hindu groups about ‘who is the real Hindu,’ or

> ‘who is the best’ or ‘who is the most faithful to the Vedas,’ etc.

 

It's enough to differentiate among monotheistic, monistic and

polytheistic versions. "Who's the best/most faithful to the Vedas" is

a matter of age-long debate...

 

> Our articles try to remain general, but as you have pointed out,

> there are a few points where will not be exactly on the mark with

> Hare Krishnas or Tantras or Sai Baba or New Age or Vendatic

> Hinduism. Names and tags are difficult as some groups use them with

> different meanings (e.g. “Vedicâ€).

 

Vaisnavas apply the term "Vedic" to all srutis, smritis and itihasas

based on texts like Bhagavata Purana 3.12.39 and Chandogya Upanisad

7.1.2,4.

 

> As you listed several of your

> concerns, I can see where the Vaishnavite views, and specifically

> the devotees of Krishna will not see their viewpoint represented in

> a few points (e.g. Krishna- Balarama-Paramatma as the Trimurti).

 

Krishna-Balarama-Paramatma are not analogous to Trimurti but to Holy

Trinity. It's a result of an extensive study, though not (as yet) a

general knowledge.

 

> If you think we have unfairly represented Hinduism, it

> would be helpful for you to be specific with the article section of

> the site and point out where we can be more correct. We are very

> open to amending anything there that is not true if that can

> accurately be pointed out to us. We have actually made a few small

> changes from others who have made suggestions Thank you again for

> you interest and the time you took to email us.

 

I don't have time for a thorough analysis of your site - I mentioned

only those subjects which caught my attention. General advice would be

to drop the term 'hinduism' in favor of vaisnavism, saivism and

saktism and differentiate among monotheistic, monistic and

polytheistic versions. You'd also dislike if some lumped you together

with Judaism and Islam under such artificial term as 'jordanism'. (see

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/bhaktiyoga/vaisnavism.htm )

 

Why not oppose monotheism's main enemy, monism, which is very

established (at least among the elite philosophers) in eastern

traditions, and is a basis of 'New Age'? I understand that there are

more and more Christians falling to this trap.

 

Your servant, bh. Jan

 

www.veda.harekrsna.cz

(Bhakti-yoga Vedic Encyclopedia Vedic Library Links)

 

__________

Anonymní připojení k internetu od Seznamu

http://ad.seznam.cz/clickthru?spotId=74638

[Guest guest]

After considering few answer of those so called pandits it is clear they are

trying to oppose christianity with vedic culture using the confusion of the

many sects of what they call hinduism.

I don't believe that they want even demonstrate the superiority of christianism

.. Their theories are common amongst academic scholars and particularly those

who want to convince the world that everyting (including the existence of

Krsna) is coming from mosaic culture.

The division of the vaisnava community will serve them as long as truth will not

be established. The many branches will be considered only as more sects with no

power to make authorities in term of vedic studies.

 

Vrajananda das

-

Jan J M

vediculture

Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:16 AM

Re: [world-vedic] Karma 2 Grace: dialogue between Christians and Hindus?

Here's my short exchange with these folks: Jan 10-May-04

07:28 (09:28 +0200) info (AT) karma2grace (DOT) orgSubject:

pundits?---------------------------Namaste,I

don't know by which standard you call yourself 'pundits' but theinformation

level of your articles is quite low and they are oftenmisleading. This can be

understood if the prime purpose of your siteis, contrary to your mission

statement, a missionary activity but notpursuit of truth. Also the conversion

stories suggest the earlier asthey are always part of similar missionary

sites.The majority hindu (correctly "Vedic") tradition is Vaisnavism.

Pleaseupgrade your knowledge of it from genuine sources like SrimadBhagavata

Purana, other Vaisnava Puranas, writings of Vaisnavaacaryas, etc.Your

understanding of hinduism comes from academic books related tocurrent general

hinduism which is rather degraded with its castesdefined by birth, deva

worship, etc., without deeper insight. At leastyou repeat all their

misconceptions. Thus Trinity is not analogous toTrimurti Brahma-Visnu-Siva but

to Krishna-Balarama-Paramatma; thegrace - called prasada or anugraha - is very

much present inVaisnavism; there is cosmic sacrifice of Rg Vedic Purusa; there

is abig difference between murtis and idols; the purpose of Vedic samhitasis

different from Upanisads - therefore there is no reincarnationmentioned in them

and the language is also different; there is a judgement after death; etc.For

comparisons I suggest the writings of Brother David Sherman akaBhakti Ananda

Goswami athttp://vaisnavi.com/saragrahi/columns/one/main.htmThis letter is just

to inform you, not to start a debate.All glory to the Lord, His Son and Holy

Spirit.Your servant, bh. Janwww.veda.harekrsna.cz Internet: "Info"

<info karma2grace.org> 21-May-04 00:37 (20:37 -0400)

Jan reply to your

concern---------------------------BH,

Thank you so much for your input and interest in this site. Yourconcern for

the Vaishnavite aspects of Hinduism is a valid concern. As youknow, Hinduism

is not one monolithic religion, but a conglomeration ofdifferent religions that

happen to share some basic common doctrines. We trynot to step into the middle

of any contention between Hindu groups about ‘whois the real Hindu,’ or

‘who is the best’ or ‘who is the most faithful to theVedas,’ etc. Our

articles try to remain general, but as you have pointed out,there are a few

points where will not be exactly on the mark with Hare Krishnasor Tantras or

Sai Baba or New Age or Vendatic Hinduism. Names and tags aredifficult as some

groups use them with different meanings (e.g. “Vedicâ€). Asyou listed

several of your concerns, I can see where the Vaishnavite views,

andspecifically the devotees of Krishna will not see their viewpoint

representedin a few points (e.g. Krishna- Balarama-Paramatma as the Trimurti).

However,most of your points I think are clearly in the scope of this site.

We have lived in India, met with Hindu students groups to discussHinduism, met

with temple priests, dialogued in public with Hindus, etc. Ifyou think we have

unfairly represented Hinduism, it would be helpful for you tobe specific with

the article section of the site and point out where we can bemore correct. We

are very open to amending anything there that is not true ifthat can accurately

be pointed out to us. We have actually made a few smallchanges from others who

have made suggestionsThank you again for you interest and the time you took to

email us.Wyatt, for Karma to Grace Jan 21-May-04 11:16

(13:16 +0200) "Info" <info karma2grace.org> reply to your

concern---------------------------Namaste

Wyatt,thanks for your reply.> We try not to step into the middle of any>

contention between Hindu groups about ‘who is the real Hindu,’ or> ‘who

is the best’ or ‘who is the most faithful to the Vedas,’ etc.It's enough

to differentiate among monotheistic, monistic andpolytheistic versions. "Who's

the best/most faithful to the Vedas" isa matter of age-long debate...> Our

articles try to remain general, but as you have pointed out,> there are a few

points where will not be exactly on the mark with> Hare Krishnas or Tantras or

Sai Baba or New Age or Vendatic> Hinduism. Names and tags are difficult as

some groups use them with> different meanings (e.g. “Vedicâ€).Vaisnavas

apply the term "Vedic" to all srutis, smritis and itihasasbased on texts like

Bhagavata Purana 3.12.39 and Chandogya Upanisad7.1.2,4.> As you listed several

of your> concerns, I can see where the Vaishnavite views, and specifically> the

devotees of Krishna will not see their viewpoint represented in> a few points

(e.g. Krishna- Balarama-Paramatma as the Trimurti).Krishna-Balarama-Paramatma

are not analogous to Trimurti but to HolyTrinity. It's a result of an extensive

study, though not (as yet) ageneral knowledge.> If you think we have unfairly

represented Hinduism, it> would be helpful for you to be specific with the

article section of> the site and point out where we can be more correct. We

are very> open to amending anything there that is not true if that can>

accurately be pointed out to us. We have actually made a few small> changes

from others who have made suggestions Thank you again for> you interest and the

time you took to email us.I don't have time for a thorough analysis of your site

- I mentionedonly those subjects which caught my attention. General advice would

beto drop the term 'hinduism' in favor of vaisnavism, saivism andsaktism and

differentiate among monotheistic, monistic andpolytheistic versions. You'd also

dislike if some lumped you togetherwith Judaism and Islam under such artificial

term as 'jordanism'. (seehttp://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/bhaktiyoga/vaisnavism.htm

)Why not oppose monotheism's main enemy, monism, which is veryestablished (at

least among the elite philosophers) in easterntraditions, and is a basis of

'New Age'? I understand that there aremore and more Christians falling to this

trap.Your servant, bh. Janwww.veda.harekrsna.cz(Bhakti-yoga Vedic Encyclopedia

Vedic Library

Links)__________Anonymní

připojení k internetu od

Seznamuhttp://ad.seznam.cz/clickthru?spotId=74638This is an information

resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient

Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific

aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World

Culture are welcome.Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition,

but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the

environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om

[Guest guest]

After considering few answers of those so called pandits it is clear they are

trying to oppose christianity with vedic culture using the confusion of the

many sects of what they call hinduism.

I don't believe that they want even to demonstrate the superiority of

christianism . Their theories are common amongst academic scholars and

particularly those who want to convince the world that everyting (including the

existence of Krsna) is coming from mosaic culture.

The division of the vaisnava community will serve them as long as truth will not

be established concerning parampara. The many branches will be considered only

as more sects with no power to make authorities in term of vedic studies.

 

Vrajananda das

-

Jan J M

vediculture

Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:16 AM

Re: [world-vedic] Karma 2 Grace: dialogue between Christians and Hindus?

Here's my short exchange with these folks: Jan 10-May-04

07:28 (09:28 +0200) info (AT) karma2grace (DOT) orgSubject:

pundits?---------------------------Namaste,I

don't know by which standard you call yourself 'pundits' but theinformation

level of your articles is quite low and they are oftenmisleading. This can be

understood if the prime purpose of your siteis, contrary to your mission

statement, a missionary activity but notpursuit of truth. Also the conversion

stories suggest the earlier asthey are always part of similar missionary

sites.The majority hindu (correctly "Vedic") tradition is Vaisnavism.

Pleaseupgrade your knowledge of it from genuine sources like SrimadBhagavata

Purana, other Vaisnava Puranas, writings of Vaisnavaacaryas, etc.Your

understanding of hinduism comes from academic books related tocurrent general

hinduism which is rather degraded with its castesdefined by birth, deva

worship, etc., without deeper insight. At leastyou repeat all their

misconceptions. Thus Trinity is not analogous toTrimurti Brahma-Visnu-Siva but

to Krishna-Balarama-Paramatma; thegrace - called prasada or anugraha - is very

much present inVaisnavism; there is cosmic sacrifice of Rg Vedic Purusa; there

is abig difference between murtis and idols; the purpose of Vedic samhitasis

different from Upanisads - therefore there is no reincarnationmentioned in them

and the language is also different; there is a judgement after death; etc.For

comparisons I suggest the writings of Brother David Sherman akaBhakti Ananda

Goswami athttp://vaisnavi.com/saragrahi/columns/one/main.htmThis letter is just

to inform you, not to start a debate.All glory to the Lord, His Son and Holy

Spirit.Your servant, bh. Janwww.veda.harekrsna.cz