Arya-samaja (reply to Deen B Chondora)

May 23, 2004

Hare Krishna!

Dear Deen B Chandora

What I have presented is the instructions from Srila Prabhupada as it is.

Therefore there is no question of "twisting" as you mentioned. We take

instructions from the disciplic succession(guru parampara) the current acarya

is: His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Founder AND Acarya of

International Society of Krishna Consciousness. We see that Indians have been

duped by many bogus philosophies from Vivekananda,RamaKrishna,Sai Baba,Gandhi

etc. Some Indians are outraged when Srila Prabhupada challenged the bogus

philosophies. Srila Prabhupada nonetheless was always non-compromising in such

situations. If you carefully study Srila Prabhupada's books you will see the

facts speak for themselves.

>Without Arya Samaj people like MAhaesh will not dare to go out of >India

I do not live in India--I am in the UK. Besides, I was born in Uganda(Africa).

Neither are Arya Samaja my protectors. Lord Krishna protects--in all

circumstances--others can be but instruments in His plan.

Whilst I would like to share with you some of Srila Prabhupada's teachings on

philosophical understandings let me assure you the words are as it is. There

are references if you have to check on the top eg conversations, lectures,

books,letters, morning walks(mw).

It is not appropriate for you to say I twisted the words when the quote

references are provided for you to check.

ys mahesh

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Since It is philosophy that we are concerned with-- you will be able to reflect

on the truth. I have taken only one quote of arya-samaja this time, as there

are also other aspects of bogus philosophies where Indians have been duped. So

please see the examples.

Instead of venting your anger at me I feel it is better to take some positive

feedback from Srila Prabhupada who has made thousands of devotees of Lord

Krishna all over the world --even from different religious groups: Islam,

Christianity , Juadism. Srila prabhupada's books are still continuing to make

devotees of Lord Krishna all over the world regardless of caste, creed,

religions, color background.

Here are just a few examples of **how** Indians have been mislead:

740217mw.bom ConversationsMr. Sar: All these movements at one time,

sometimes Arya-samaja movement was very strong, sometimes another's. They come

and go.Prabhupada: But this Krsna movement is always strong. There are millions

of Krsna temples in India, and the Arya-samajis tried to check people going to

the temple, but they, they have gone away, and the temple is existing and

millions of people still going to see the temple. In Jagannatha temple, in

Vrndavana, thousands and thousands of men, still coming. All the South Indian

temples.

68-02-25. Letter: Satsvarupa Please accept my blessings. I am in receipt of a

copy of your last Istagosthi dated Jan. 27, and I am very much satisfied with

your replies on the questions made in the Istagosthi. The meeting is called

"Istagosthi" and not "Istagosthi". You may know also that Ramakrishna's worship

of Kali makes him a third class man. In the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that one

who worships the demigods just like Brahma, Siva, Indra, Candra or

demigoddesses like Kali, Durga, Sarasvati, etc., are described as persons who

have lost their intelligence. One person who has lost his intelligence, how he

can become an incarnation of God? A person who has lost his intelligence, is

not even counted amongst the higher section of society. So, the Ramakrishna is

a bogus man according to the statement of Bhagavad-gita. Vivekananda was also

not even intelligent man because he accepted Ramakrsna as incarnation of God.

This Ramakrsna, who is actually Gadadhara Chatterjee, declared himself as the

same Rama and Krsna. If he is accepted as such by some person, is he very

intelligent man? Suppose a man comes before somebody and says he is Pres.

Johnson. and the foolish man accepts the pretender as Pres. Johnson, is that

man to be accepted as very intelligent man? Vivekananda was not even an

intelligent man because he accepted Gadhadhara Chatterjee as incarnation of God

without any credentials. We accept Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead on

the evidence of Vedic literature. There is no evidence in the Vedic literatures

that a common unintelligent person by worshipping a demigoddess Kali can become

an incarnation of Godhead. The goddess Kali is divine mother for the

conditioned souls, not for the liberated souls. There is no direction in the

Vedic literatures that one can become liberated even by worshipping the goddess

Kali. She is superintendent of the prison house known as material world. One can

derive some material facilities by worshipping Kali or Durga, but nobody can

become liberated by worshipping such demigoddesses, so what to speak of

becoming incarnation of Godhead. So the propaganda that Ramakrsna became

incarnation of God by worshipping Kali is not accepted by any authorized

acharya and therefore it is a bogus propaganda. One who follows therefore, such

bogus propaganda is also misled as far as his spiritual advancement is

concerned.

740424mw.hyd ConversationsPrabhupada: Then they will be very much

pleased. And as soon as you criticize, that "You are doing this wrong, you will

suffer.Oh, yes, this Swamiji is not (indistinct)." That is going on

everywhere. In the name of religion you do all nonsense rascaldom, and the

leader approves, "Yes, you can do." Vivekananda did it. "Yes, there is no

difference between eating meat and not meating eat in terms of religion

system." He preached this, and all the sannyasis of the Ramakrishna Mission

they eat meat, they drink, they have woman secretary, everything. This

Chinmayananda is also like that. I know his whole mischief. Unless one is

purely Krsna conscious, one cannot give up all these bad habits. This is the

test. Bhaktih paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra caisa. One... Unless one is

substantially advanced in krsna-bhakti, they cannot give up this material

attachment--illicit sex, meat eating--they cannot. It is impossible.

75-12-18. Letter: Tulsi So if we want to be happy in this life and the next

we have to worship Visnu. But Gandhi did to satisfy Visnu? He was trying to

satisfy his country, and his country killed him. He manufactured so many things

which were never found in Bhagavad-gita. Throughout the Bhagavad-gita Krishna is

encouraging Arjuna to fight, and Gandhi manufactured non-violence from

Bhagavad-gita. Everyone in India knows the Mahabharata, the great battle of

Kuruksetra, 640,000,000 soldiers gave up their life in that battle, and Krishna

was personally instructing Arjuna to fight, and Gandhi took Bhagavad-gita and

preached non-violence. So what was his understanding. At the end of his life he

frankly said, "I don't believe there was ever such a historical person as

Krishna". So what did Gandhi know about Bhagavad-gita?

730517mw.la ConversationsPrabhupada: That is warned by

Sankaracarya. Vivekananda lamented at the end of his life, that "I have simply

wasted my life." He admitted, "I have not given anything." Balakanam. He was

after this body, and he was recorded, government record, as political sannyasi.

Yes. He had political purpose, but was acting as a sannyasi. Just like Gandhi,

"Saintly statesman." He is recorded, "Saintly statesman." He's a statesman,

politician, but he was introducing some morality, non-violence, like that.

Actually, his philosophy failed. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity, but it was

divided. The Muslim and Hindu divided. He wanted non-violence. He died out of

violence. Therefore all his philosophy failed. And Indian independence was

achieved not by Gandhi's non-violence method but (by) Subhas Bose's violence

method. And he wanted to explain nonviolence from Bhagavad-gita. Just see,

another foolishness. Bhagavad-gita is spoken in the battlefield, and he was

screwing some meaning to prove his nonviolence.

731230mw.la ConversationsPrabhupada: Well, in politics, unless

there is violence, you cannot take. Simply by sweet words, not possible. That

was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash

Chandra Bose. So Subhash Chandra Bose was of opinion that--and that is a

fact--that "You are agitating non-violence. These people will never care for

your non-violence. Unless there is violence, so these Britishers will never go

away." So Gandhi would say, "No, I am not going to accept this violence theory.

I shall continue." So for thirty years... He started from 1917 and up to '47,

the Britishers did not go. But when Subhash Chandra Bose, he saw... He took the

political power. He became the president. But Gandhi was angry. So because he

was old leader, out of respect, he resigned the presidentship. Then he though

that "So long this man will live, there will be no independence." So he went

out of India and joined with Hitler, and Tojo, Japanese.Nitai: Who went out of

India?Prabhupada: This Subhash Chandra Bose. And he organized the INA, Indian

National Army. So when this Indian National Army was organized and the

Britishers... They were great politicians. They saw, "Now the army is going to

national movement. We cannot be." Then they left. Because it was not possible.

They were maintaining British Empire with Indian money, Indian men. You see?

They did not conquer by their British soldiers all round the Far East, Burma

and the Mesopotamia, and the Egypt. That was Indian army, the Sikh soldiers and

the Gurkha soldiers, and Indian money. On the pretext that "For Indian

protection, we are maintaining this army." Actually, they were expanding their

empire. Africa, Burma. And when they saw that "India is lost," voluntarily they

liquidated all others. Went back... Back to home, back to Godhead. (devotees

laugh) So in politics this is nonsense, non-violence. It is nonsense,

cowardism. In politics in sweet words you cannot get. There must be fight,

arms. That is army. "If you don't agree, then fist." That is politics. There

must be violence. Otherwise you cannot control. When there is educated good

men, then you can argue. But when people are ruffians, there is no question of

good... Argumentum vaculum, I told you the other day... (break) ...in the

beginning of creation, the fight between the demons and the demigods,

devasura-yuddha. That is always there. In the European history, without

revolution, no order changes. Even the Russian Revolution was there. French

revolution was there. In England, Cromwell? Cromwell? Cromwell

Revolution?Nara-narayana: Yes.Prabhupada: Yes. So without revolution,

(indistinct), you cannot change old order. "Old orders changes giving place to

new." That old order changes... Everywhere it is by violence. The Mahabharata

also, the Battle of Kuruksetra. Krsna was there. He tried to settle up. But it

was not settled without violence. Paritranaya... What is that? Vinasaya ca

duskrtam. Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam. Krsna also comes, vinasaya

ca duskrtam, to, for killing the demons. Krsna also comes.

740429mw.hyd ConversationsPrabhupada: That is, means rascal. He

does not see Krsna's wonderful. If you want to see wonderful things, why don't

you see the more wonderful things? But they are foolish; they are captivated

with small wonderful things. That means less intelligent. Just like small

children, they will be amazed by seeing small wonderful things, but his father

will not be. What is the amazement, wonderful thing, Sai Baba has done? If he

is creator of gold, then why he is doing business of incense? You know that? He

has a big incense business exactly like us. He can create gold? Why there is

incense business? (break) Caitanya Mahaprabhu used to give to His mother some

gold when there was need of money. "Mother, I got this gold. So you can utilize

it." The mother would think that "We are poor men, we have no gold. Wherefrom

this boy brings gold?" So he (she) was doubtful because he (she) was thinking,

"My son is mad, sometimes crazy." So he (she) would go, "Is it real gold? Just

see." Then. "Yes, it is real gold."

731211mw.la ConversationsPrajapati: No. There is one rascal,

Prabhupada, who can do tricks. His name is Sai Baba. He can make jewels appear,

give people photographs of himself, give them to people like tricks.Prabhupada:

But another rascal will be victim of that tricks. Why shall I accept him as

God?Karandhara: Besides, they're insignificant tricks.Prabhupada: Insignificant

tricks. So if gold is the standard of becoming God, then there is gold mine. So

who has created the gold mine, I shall accept Him God. Why shall I you. If gold

is the standard, why a little chataka(?) of...? We are not so fools. You can

make this trick for other fools, not to us.

750212rc.mex ConversationsPrabhupada: Sai Baba, he also says, "I am

Bhagavan." Therefore he's bogus. How you can say yourself that you are Bhagavan,

God? What is your power? What you have shown? And this is cheap. Now, supposing

Sai Baba is God. So people accept him God, why? Because he shows some jugglery.

He creates little gold. Is it not? So if, by creating gold, he is God, then

there is bigger God who has created gold mine. Why shall I go to this tiny god?

I must go to the big God who has created gold mine. This is common sense. But

foolish people, they have no common sense even. Therefore it is called mudha.

Mudha nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam.

740324mw.bom ConversationsGuest (2) (Indian man): No, no. He is

from that sampradaya. (break) They worship God as Swami Narayana. My Lord is

Narayana. Swami means the Lord, and Narayana is the Lord. So they say always

"Swami Narayana, Swami Narayana." Just like we chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna,

they chant "Swami Narayana, Swami Narayana, Swami Narayana." The Lord is

Narayana, God is Narayana, God is Narayana. So Swami is Narayana. You see,

actually what did he preach, "Our Swami is Narayana." So they have Swami

Narayana song.Prabhupada: That is Mayavada. That is Mayavada.Guest (1): That is

Mayavada, or whatever it may be.Dr. Patel: Everything is Mayavada.Guest (2): Oh,

Lord is Narayana.Prabhupada: As soon as we say, "Our Swami is Narayana," it is

Mayavada.

740404mw.bom ConversationsPrabhupada: But that is going on. The

other day one, another Swami Narayana came. I ask him "Why there is no picture

of Krsna?"Dr. Patel: That we will discuss after...Prabhupada: He also said like

that. "No, because..."Dr. Patel: Why do you want to divert?Prabhupada: Yes. You

diverted. You brought Swami Narayana. We don't accept Swami Narayana as

authority. We don't accept that.

May 23, 2004

MAy 23, 2004 Dear Mahesh ,

Namaste,

I am glad you were not born in India, but people statred Migrating through out

the world after Swmai Dayaanaand Founder of Arya sanmaj told that there is no

sin in trvallieng acreoss oceans, as the Puraniks stated and prevented people

from crossing and going aBorad. Your fore fathers must have left India at that

time. Arya Samj was established in all over the world whereever peole from

India miragted and all those places have Arya Samj.

Let me tell you some thing wchich will open your eyes:

!. I defendesd HareKrshna in Supreme court of USA by filling the petition to

save Krisnha Temples of USA. You may check the records and can ask people like

Virin PArker and others who are still in charge of USAHAre Krishna Mov3ement.

2. I conducted Workshop in NewOrleans in 1993 to prevent HAre Krisha Vaisnavs

from being labelled by American Psychiatric Association as Cult. I was

successful i nOrganizing and defending Vaishnavs like you from being labbeelled

CULT a derogatory term in USA.YOU can ask MUKUNDA GOSWAMI GOvening counvil

memeber of HAreKrisha USA.,and BALBHADRA of ATLANTA HAREKRISHNA TEMPLE.

3. I have been the life member of USA HARAKRISHNA AND gave finacial and material assistance.

4. I did all this selflessly just to preserve the Vaishnav Movement in the USA, .

5.I am Vaishnav by Birth and was born in Jodhpur RAjashathan in the Krishna

Temple and come from that community.Hepl reconvert Hindu Sisters back to Hindu

Fold in my younger years, when I was a ateen ager aand Young budding Physician

, with the hel pof Arya Samaj in Jodhpur and Bikaner ,when I was teaching

Medicine and practicing Mediccine at Medical college ofBikane, Raj.

6.I did all above while founding ,establishing Vedic Temple in Atlanta,-A

flourishing Arya Samj TEmple. have founded Arya Samaj , on Four ackre Land.

7. I founded WOrld Assoociation of Vedic Studiesand conduct International

Academic COnferences throughout the USA, every two years, and in INdia every

year at many a locations,

8. I wrote two books Hindu Satkam in 1999 and all sold out ,second reprint will

be out in 2006. Dutch edition is underway,in Netehrlands.Second book Gayatri

Garima in Hindi and Englishin 2002. Some scholars want to Translate in

Assammese LAnguage also and they are working on it.

9. Before you make any futher comments please do read the original work of Swami

Dayanaand , particulaly Satyarth Prakash and RigvedadiBhashya Bhumika.Yogi

Arvind And Great Vashnav Mahatama GAndhi heave appreciated the work of Swami

Dyanaand and continuted the torch of Hindu Renassance movement.

I hope God gives you insight, and think Positively and just work for your

choosen organization without pointing the fingers at others.

This will be my last letter to you. Only limited time is left for me, so I want

do good use of it for the benefit of Humanity.

Goodby.

Sincerely

Deen B Chandora

>"Mahesh" <mahesh (AT) agtsp (DOT) freeserve.co.uk> >"deen chandora"

<deenbc (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>,<vediculture>,<ahilja.tewarie (AT) nl (DOT) abnamro.com>,"Ajay

Arya"

>CC:

<reetasingh (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>,<dhananjaygupta (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>,<chandola@u.arizona.edu>,<gurukul (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>,<rajinder.gandhi (AT) att (DOT) net>,<vedicscience (AT) rediffmail (DOT) com>,<girish (AT) aryasamaj (DOT) com>,<divayes (AT) eth (DOT) net>,<i_rampersad >,<singh (AT) ces (DOT) clemson.edu>,<rajender.gandhi (AT) att (DOT) net>,<rpgandhi (AT) optonline (DOT) net>,<rkotike (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>,<vedicscience (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>,<SVedic (AT) aol (DOT) com>,<swamysatyam >,<shashitiwari_98 (AT) eth (DOT) net>,<shashit_98 >,<tavs (AT) euronet (DOT) nl>,<agnivesh (AT) vsnl (DOT) com>,"vrindavana

das prabhu" <vrinparker (AT) (DOT) co.in>,<dvdsharma (AT) bellsouth (DOT) net> >Re:

[world-vedic] Arya-samaja (reply to Deen B Chondora) >Sun, 23 May 2004

23:53:33 +0100 > >Hare Krishna! >Dear Deen B Chandora > >What I have presented

is the instructions from Srila Prabhupada as it is. Therefore there is no

question of "twisting" as you mentioned. We take instructions from the

disciplic succession(guru parampara) the current acarya is: His Divine Grace AC

Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Founder AND Acarya of International Society of

Krishna Consciousness. We see that Indians have been duped by many bogus

philosophies from Vivekananda,RamaKrishna,Sai Baba,Gandhi etc. Some Indians are

outraged when Srila Prabhupada challenged the bogus philosophies. Srila

Prabhupada nonetheless was always non-compromising in such situations. If you

carefully study Srila Prabhupada's books you will see the facts speak for

themselves. > > >Without Arya Samaj people like MAhaesh will not dare to go out

of >India > >I do not live in India--I am in the UK. Besides, I was born in

Uganda(Africa). Neither are Arya Samaja my protectors. Lord Krishna

protects--in all circumstances--others can be but instruments in His plan. >

>Whilst I would like to share with you some of Srila Prabhupada's teachings on

philosophical understandings let me assure you the words are as it is. There

are references if you have to check on the top eg conversations, lectures,

books,letters, morning walks(mw). > >It is not appropriate for you to say I

twisted the words when the quote references are provided for you to check. >

>ys mahesh > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Since

It is philosophy that we are concerned with-- you will be able to reflect on

the truth. I have taken only one quote of arya-samaja this time, as there are

also other aspects of bogus philosophies where Indians have been duped. So

please see the examples. > >Instead of venting your anger at me I feel it is

better to take some positive feedback from Srila Prabhupada who has made

thousands of devotees of Lord Krishna all over the world --even from different

religious groups: Islam, Christianity , Juadism. Srila prabhupada's books are

still continuing to make devotees of Lord Krishna all over the world regardless

of caste, creed, religions, color background. > >Here are just a few examples of

**how** Indians have been mislead: > >740217mw.bom Conversations

>Mr. Sar: All these movements at one time, sometimes Arya-samaja movement was

very strong, sometimes another's. They come and go. >Prabhupada: But this Krsna

movement is always strong. There are millions of Krsna temples in India, and the

Arya-samajis tried to check people going to the temple, but they, they have gone

away, and the temple is existing and millions of people still going to see the

temple. In Jagannatha temple, in Vrndavana, thousands and thousands of men,

still coming. All the South Indian temples. > > >68-02-25. Letter: Satsvarupa

> Please accept my blessings. I am in receipt of a copy of your last

Istagosthi dated Jan. 27, and I am very much satisfied with your replies on the

questions made in the Istagosthi. The meeting is called "Istagosthi" and not

"Istagosthi". You may know also that Ramakrishna's worship of Kali makes him a

third class man. In the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that one who worships the

demigods just like Brahma, Siva, Indra, Candra or demigoddesses like Kali,

Durga, Sarasvati, etc., are described as persons who have lost their

intelligence. One person who has lost his intelligence, how he can become an

incarnation of God? A person who has lost his intelligence, is not even counted

amongst the higher section of society. So, the Ramakrishna is a bogus man

according to the statement of Bhagavad-gita. Vivekananda was also not even

intelligent man because he accepted Ramakrsna as incarnation of God. This

Ramakrsna, who is actually Gadadhara Chatterjee, declared himself as the same

Rama and Krsna. If he is accepted as such by some person, is he very