Interview with an India-baiter

[Guest guest]

7 Jan 2003 03:28:16 -0000

"benjamin panavelil ninan" <benjaminpninan

Re: Interview with an India-baiter

 

Friends,

 

The following interview with DOM MORAES appeared in Vijay Times,

Bangalore's latest English daily on 6th Jan.

 

PN BENJAMIN

 

 

WHAT'S `OUT OF GOD'S OVEN'?

 

On my way to Taj West End in Bangalore on Saturday evening (4th

January) to interview Dom Moraes and Sarayu Srivastsa, I picked up

their

latest book, "Out of God's Oven – Travels in a fractured land", and

quickly

glanced through Dom's introduction wherein he writes that under the

"rule of Hindu fundamentalists, Muslims and Christians are being

persecuted". This provoked me to ask him whether his remarks

were "the offspring

of his muddy understanding of the Indian reality" because, I added,

as

a Christian I've never felt being persecuted in India and also

because,

I know for sure, Christians were killed, tortured or raped even

before

the "Hindu fundamentalists" came to power.

 

Taken aback by this unexpected question Dom Moraes evaded a direct

answer. Instead he took the simplest way to establish his secular

credentials by referring to the oft-repeated the ghastly killings of

Graham

Staines and his two sons three years ago, rape of nuns and killings

of

priests in Bihar four or five years ago.

 

It may be recalled here that the four adorable nuns- the victims of

the

much trumpeted Jhabua rape - who themselves admitted, along with

their

bishop George Anatil, that the incident had nothing to do with

religion. It was the doing of a gang of Bhil tribals, known to

perpetrate this

kind of hateful acts on their own women. Yet today, Dom Moraes still

refers to it. It is a pessimist's past time. And almost all the

Indian

pseudo-secularists like their western counterparts are cynics and

pessimists. They spread hatred like butter on hot bread. It only

keeps

exacerbating the Indian communal divide.

 

 

Asked whether they were aware of the fact that `foreign-funded

fundamentalist and fanatic Christian evangelists who denigrate Hindu

god and

abuse Hindu rituals as barbaric are the root cause of tension between

Christian and Hindu communities', Dom replied: "I agree that many of

the

methods used by the missionaries are extremely deplorable. And many

of

the television programmes are absolutely awful. I'm not holding up a

sort of cross for the missionaries. But I wouldn't say that therefore

that it is a sort of crime against India."

 

But he quickly changed the topic to `conversion' and said: "People

must

not be pushed or hustled into conversion unless they want to be. I

disapprove of forceful conversion or of excessive persuasion anywhere

but I

do think that it should be understood that many people want to stop

being Hindus because of the caste system.

It is also true that many of the converts do so fairly willingly

because they, otherwise, cannot get out of their caste system". He

wondered

how many of us were "aware that a lot of people, apart from wanting

to

be Christians, also want to become Buddhists and the government has

been deliberately preventing them from doing so". He said he had gone

to

the Dalit rally in Delhi (last year) "which is not mentioned in this

book", where the government blocked the roads into the Capital,

changed

the venues so that the Dalits should not come there.

 

Sarayu added that some of the new converts had told her: "We need to

feed our stomachs and that of our children. We need our women to be

looked after. And when we do convert there are certain advantages:

it's not

just the promise of escape from caste oppression but we are promised

a

job and meeting our other basic necessities". Sarayu admits that to

those who have been converted to Islam or Christianity or to

Buddhism,

"conversion has nothing to do with the God. We will follow a religion

if

that religion promises a livelihood."

 

Sarayu added: "the Hindu fundamentalists would then say, "these are

baits offered to you and it is a kind of compulsion because you are

offering this bait. So one can understand both views in

juxtaposition."

 

However, Dom is opposed to such conversions.

 

Do you agree that in India, whipping up hatred against a rival

community becomes easier when there is a history of conflict and

bitterness

with it?

 

"Yes, we do", they said. Sarayu adds: "Because of this, the country

is fractured in various ways. So we are compulsively trying to get it

together. We are even questioning the word `secularism'. It's not

just

religious secularism but the individual himself is fractured because

he

doesn't have a composite identity and has to deal with bits of

identities with himself and other people. We are fractured not only

vertically,

laterally, sub-laterally but in every manner".

 

Dom tells: "while writing this book we have seen all the fractures in

India. The publisher of this book wanted to call it, `The Travels in

Hindu India.' But we objected to it because it is not Hindu India but

an

India that is fractured in many places. I mean look for example- the

status of women which is lower in India than in most other countries

except possibly Africa".

 

Asked whether it's time for all of us to follow the Biblical dictum:

"kindle not the coals of sinners by rebuking them, lest you be burnt

with the flames of the fire of their sins", Dom replied: "By

profession if

you are a writer and you set out to write a book, you write only the

truth. We have been threatened. But if one is doing what one is

supposed

to do, I don't think it matters what happens".

 

Sarayu said Amen to it and added: "We went into this with our eyes

and

ears wide open. I was proud to be an India till I travelled around

and

got to see the real India. Before that one lived under an umbrella of

false idealism and communal harmony and nonviolence, and words like

secularism and patriotism. One is not concerned with the superficial

image

of India one is interested in what is happening at the human level.

So

one is not worried about the consequences when one is trying to help

someone. You don't have to be an Indian or a foreigner to help people

who

are the same everywhere.

 

On the question of the terrible surge of communalism and the ways to

combat it, Dom believes that it can be done by "letting people know

through our writing that there is such a surge. It is up to the

government

to deal with it since the government is responsible for much of it".

 

Sarayu blames the educated class for "fracturing whatever harmony

there

was in this country, if there was any. The more people write and the

more films are made, media makes such a situation where people are

made

aware of what is happening. Then that would be one step toward

looking

at the real image of India however horrifying it is without diluting

it".

 

What Dom appreciates most about India is `the capacity of its people

to

suffer' and for Sarayu, it's their `blank, endless hope that things

are going to get better'.

 

Their next book would be about "an English man who walked to India in

the early 17th century. He died here in India trying to write a book.

He

was possibly the only Englishman at that t time who came to India not

to make money but to know about the country".

 

At the end of my interview, I was faced with a burning question

within

myself: "Will `OUT OF GOD'S OVEN' further fracture my already

fractured

country?" because its authors do not seem to realize that from 1980s

Indians have heard nothing but the sound of communal violence,

whether in

the horror of anti-Sikh riots of 1984 and continuing waste and

desolation of the Hindu-Muslim conflict, in sectarian caste wars, or

in the

dull thud of the daily toll from Kashmir. The teenagers of today have

been

spreading terror in various parts of the country. They have been fed

on

this diet for so long that they know no other. This is a generation

(that includes this writer too) that has lived through two decades of

darkness punctuated by the flash of sword, fire and gunshot. It is a

time

in our history when the living feed off death. Should we add fuel to

fire?

 

NINA BENJAMIN

Sub-editor/reporter

Vijay Times

Bangalore

>WHO GETS MORE HATE FUNDS?

>During 2001-02 the total amount received to organisations under FCRA

>regulations in KARNATAKA was Rs. 534 crores. Out of this, Rs. 471

crores

>were for Christian organisations.

>The Catholic and Protestant Christians shared this Rs.471 crores,

The

Catholics got Rs. 183 crores and the others (Protestant) especially

the

fundamentalist, and born-again, breast-beating organisations that

spew

venom at Hinduism got Rs. 288 crores.

>Please do not forget that the rest of the organisations including the

>'Hindutva brigade' and the Muslims got only Rs. 63 crores in total.

>What is the population of the State of Karnataka? And what is the

>percentage of Christians in it. It is hardly 2% per cent.

>This situation is replicated all over the country.

>The Hindu-baiters are making a mountain out of a molehill while

>they themselves thrive under the shade of foreign funds. The time

has

come

>for us to call their bluff.

>Can some of you please help me in getting details about the foreign

funds received at all-India level, bearing in mind 85% of the

population

is Hindu and hardly 2% is Christian?

>P N BENJAMIN

>Coordinator

>Bangalore Initiative for Religious Dialogue (BIRD)