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Where is the question of salary? Where is vairagya, renouncement? So in all circumstances the salary process should be stopped.

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Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette

-- April 28, 1977, Bombay


Prabhupada: Niskincanasya. One who has decided that "This world is useless. I

have to take birth repeatedly and accept different types of bodies and suffer."

Body means... Those who have understood this fact and disgusted, so bhakti line

is for them. One who has the tendency to enjoy this material world, and they

are taking advantage of God, "Give me good wife, give me good work, good meal,

good enjoyment," they are not in the bhakti line. They are in the very nascent

stage.Tamala Krsna: Nescient stage?Prabhupada: Lower stage.

Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yogam. That... There is one verse written by

Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya. What page I don't... Siksartham. The bhakti-yoga,

nija-bhakti-yoga... Bhakti-yoga means devotion to Krsna. And that is

vairagya-vidya, how to learn, renounce this world. Otherwise why Caitanya

Mahaprabhu gave up His grhastha life? He's the same person. Why Rupa Gosvami

gave up their ministership? By their personal behavior they are showing this is

not required. This is vairagya-vidya. So under the circumstances, those who have

no vairagya, they cannot live in the temple. They are taking advantage of the

temple facilities for their sense enjoyment. Do you understand?Tamala Krsna:

Yes, I do.Prabhupada: So that should be stopped. So to live with wife, together

as a grhastha, and enjoy grhastha life, at the same time to live in temple, this

should be discouraged. Temple is meant for brahmacari and sannyasi, our, mainly,

not for grhastha, because they have got inclination to enjoy. To live with wife

means enjoyment. They'll have sex. This should be discouraged. But one who is

absolutely required, they also cannot be allowed to live together. It is badly

done(?). Suppose if one is grhastha, he is in devotional service, but he has no

money to look after his wife. In that case the wife can live in the temple but

separately with women, not together. Together living is very disturbing. It is

not at all recommended. Give this point. At least, this should not be

encouraged.Tamala Krsna: Generally in our temples, within the temple building

no grhasthas live together, but in the temple compound, that is to say, around

the temple, there may be other buildings. There they live together. But

it's...Prabhupada: No, I am speaking, within the temple.Tamala Krsna: I think

practically all over the society that has been stopped, the grhastha living

together with wife. I don't think there's any case like that. But in the

adjoining buildings they might be...Prabhupada: Adjoining buildings... But the

temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life. That is same

thing.Tamala Krsna: Generally the temples are providing them with apartments,

like that.Prabhupada: But that is temple.Tamala Krsna: Yeah.Prabhupada: Just

like we have got so many tenants. They are living in their own. But they have

no connection with the temple, neither the temple is paying them or... No, they

are earning their own way.Tamala Krsna: In other words, if the temple provides

an apartment, it's the same as paying a salary.Prabhupada: Hm?Tamala Krsna: In

other words, giving an apartment is the same thing as providing a

salary.Prabhupada: All right, apartment can be... But what is this? They are

given high salary. Because his service is essential--"All right, you take

apartment."Tamala Krsna: But not...Prabhupada: You take prasadam. But why

salary? Where is the question of salary? Where is vairagya, renouncement? So in

all circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants salary, he

can work outside.Tamala Krsna: Actually, even if you don't give a salary, if you

give an apartment and you give food and you give all these other things for

someone to maintain his household life...Prabhupada: Because his service is

essential.Tamala Krsna: But that has to be determined very strictly.Prabhupada:

Yes. Yes. Whether his service is absolutely required? So you give him.Tamala

Krsna: That is the factor. That point must be clearly acknowledged.Prabhupada:

Hm hm. So he's trying to practice... Because sevonmukhe, if he gives service,

then gradually he'll renounce. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah.

God realization means service. The more you give service to the Lord, the more

you become advanced in devotional... So one who is giving service, dedicated

life, so maybe... But no salary. They may live in the temple, woman separate,

man separate.Tamala Krsna: They're... But the actual thing is that they're

being, living together in an apartment, and the temple is paying for that

apartment. They're not living separately in the temple. They're

being...Prabhupada: That is to be discouraged. What do you think?Giriraja: I

agree.Prabhupada: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of

Vaisnavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment.

This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do

the needful.Tamala Krsna: Vairagya should be cultivated.Prabhupada: Vairagya...

Caitanya Mahaprabhu says clearly that niskincanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya.

The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with

this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted

with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him

who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got

little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll

have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahma or becomes an

ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur

deha-upapattaye. He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his

desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going

back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahma,

and there is ant in the stool. So vairagya-vidya-nija... Vasudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogah prayojitah, janayaty asu vairagyam. And vairagyam means jnanam ca.

When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless

for me"--jnanam--"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and

death," then he can have vairagya. "Stop this!" If this sense is not awakened,

there is no bhakti. It is not so easy. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na

kanksati. That is vairagya. So vairagya-vidya... Otherwise why big, big

persons, they renounced everything? Bharata Maharaja, young man, the emperor of

the whole world, gave up everything. Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally teaches,

young man, good, beautiful wife, young wife, so affectionate mother, so much

honor in the society, Nimai Pandita, so beautiful body... Tyaktva

sudustyaja-surepsita-rajya-laksmim. Surepsita. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's position

was, even the demigods, they desired such family life. But He still gave up.

That is teaching. Therefore Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya says,

vairagya-vidya-nija-bhak..., siksartham: "to teach others." He understood that

in order to teach others vairagya-vidya... He is the Supreme Person.

Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga-siksartham ekah purana-purusah: "That He was,

Supreme Lord. Now He has appeared as Sri Krsna Caitanya."Sarira-dhari: "He has

accepted one body as Sri Krsna Caitanya." So these things should be stopped,

that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take

salary from the... You decide. This is not to our... Besides that, in our BBT

it is clearly written that "Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent

for..." So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service,

"Welcome." Otherwise we don't require. At least they should not be given any

salary. That is very bad. This is against principle.Tamala Krsna: I was reading

the life sketch of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. He always maintained a government

service job, and still...Prabhupada: He gave so much service to Krsna. From his

family maintenance... He could have renounced, but he said that the family has

to be maintained. So he... Markata-vairagya. Bhaktivinoda Thakura was against

giving sannyasa. He didn't like these babajis. They were markata-vairagya,

superficially... Markata-vairagya means monkey. They live naked, eat fruits,

live in the jungle. That is vairagya. But three dozen wives. Markata-vairagya.

Markata means monkey. Superficially vairagya, naga-baba. They eat vegetables,

fruits, live in the jungle, no house, or, all, everything like vairagya. But

sex. We have... I have seen in Vrndavana. They have got a party, each monkey,

women's party, and the male will come to any female, "Now ready,Enter." You

can see it. Markata-vairagya nahi paraloka dasaya(?).So this should not be

encouraged. Then gradually it will deteriorate into...Tamala Krsna: The

Christians had that happen to them.Prabhupada: Hm?Tamala Krsna: The Christian

religion had that deterioration. Everything deteriorated more and more into

sense gratification.Prabhupada: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is

simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress

and cloth. That's all.Tamala Krsna: Just like the original... When Jesus was

there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled

with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever

they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the

followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification,

till now you can't see any renunciation at all within their order.Prabhupada:

No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex,

giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything

nonsense.Giriraja: Actually their leader...Prabhupada: And they are concluding

that they cannot stop committing sins and Jesus Christ will take account for

them. Therefore it is very good religion, that "We can do whatever nonsense we

like, and if we keep our faith in Jesus Christ, then we are saved."

Papa-buddhih, namno balad papa-buddhih. Great offenders. So what news?Giriraja:

Well, the reason I came up is I'm going to try to phone Mr. Rajda

now.Prabhupada: Hm?Giriraja: Going to try to phone Mr. Rajda. And considering

that the Prime Minister may not have that much time... We had discussed that he

should come here to meet you, but suppose if we fix up, say, a minimum time if

he can't come here, say at least a half hour undisturbed, something like that,

is it possible to fix in the city or we should just insist that...Prabhupada:

Hm?Tamala Krsna: He's suggesting that if the Prime Minister can't give that

much time, whether you would go to see him? Actually, if you give the idea that

Prabhupada wants to see him in the morning hours...Giriraja: Yeah, I'm going

to.Tamala Krsna: I mean, if he says that that's not possible...Prabhupada: That

is not respectful.Giriraja: No.Tamala Krsna: Not at all respectful.Prabhupada:

Then he does not know how to honor a saintly person. It is useless to meet him.

If he has no respect for saintly person, if he thinks greater than saintly

person, then he's useless.Tamala Krsna: Then nothing will come of it, anyway.

And if we give this opportunity, that he come in the morning, if

he...Prabhupada: No, no, apart from that, if he has got that sense, that "I am

very big man, so everyone should come here," he's useless. We cannot do

anything with him.Giriraja: That's what I thought.Prabhupada: Very beginning

is...Giriraja: On the wrong foot.Tamala Krsna: No, he has to come to see you,

Srila Prabhupada. Oh, there's so many examples in the sastra of great

personalities.Prabhupada: Even Caitanya Mahaprabhu refused to see, what to

speak of going there.Giriraja: I agree with you.Prabhupada: Even big, big

kings, Akbar, Mansingh, they used to, used to come to Rupa Gosvami.Giriraja:

No, I agree with you completely.Prabhupada: Did... He demanded like

that?Giriraja: No. When I spoke to Mr. Rajda I said that the Prime Minister

should come here, and Mr. Rajda agreed. But just now, when I... I just spoke to

Gopala. I was on my way to make the call. So he said that I should just ask you

about this.Prabhupada: Hm?Giriraja: I was just going to phone, and I mentioned

to Gopala Krsna Prabhu that I was going to make this call. So I said that, you

know, the Prime Minister was going to be coming here, so he... And I said that

I also, in the call I wanted to make that very clear so there was no mistake.

And he said that, well, he might be too busy to come here and that

he...Prabhupada: Gopala said.Giriraja: Yeah. So I thought it would be better

just to...Prabhupada: No, there is no question of.Giriraja: Yeah. No, I agree

completely. I mean, you're millions and billions of times greater than anyone,

so there's no question...Prabhupada: No, apart from that, if one has no proper

respect for a saintly person, he's useless man. You cannot have any benefit. Or

neither he can derive any benefit.Giriraja: Yeah.Tamala Krsna: From all

sides.Giriraja: Because he'll think he has nothing to learn, that he is already

in the best position.Prabhupada: And we don't require any from, anything from

them, but for the whole human society's welfare we can suggest him, "Do like

this." That is our... But we don't require anything from them.Giriraja: I know

that. This is your...Prabhupada: Of course, sometimes we are in difficulty. We

ask them something.Tamala Krsna: But that's their duty, anyway. Ksatriyas

should provide protection for the saintly person.Giriraja: Anyway, our real

protector is Krsna.Prabhupada: Yes.Giriraja: He has... Because we've seen so

many difficulties. Nobody could see any solution, but...Prabhupada: That one

Caitanya Mahaprabhu's devotee was ordered to be hanged.Giriraja: I didn't know

that.Prabhupada: Gopinatha Pattanayaka.Tamala Krsna: Yeah.Prabhupada: All the

devotees approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu, thinking that "He must... The king

will excuse him." He never agreed. "Oh, I cannot do that. If he has done

something wrong, then let him..." Of course, he was saved and protected by

Caitanya Mahaprabhu's good wish, but He never agreed. These are some of the

examples that... Simply depend on Krsna. But if they are actually respectful,

we can ask them. There is... But if it is difficult job... Visayinam

sandarsanam atha yosit... We cannot keep so strictly, but these are the

principles taught by Caitanya Mahaprabhu.Giriraja: So that principle about

living together and salary...Prabhupada: That is...Giriraja: That is meant to

apply everywhere in the society.Prabhupada: Oh, yes. This is exploitation of

the society.Giriraja: I know. Since I've been preaching more, I've been able to

see how much labor and endeavor is going in just to maintain so many idle

people. I know you've been saying this for a long time, and now, you know, I

feel the strength to actually change that, that only those who are really

sincere workers can stay.Prabhupada: Otherwise no need. We need their service,

but not by being salaried. That is not good. (end)


75-01-12. Letter: Kirtiraja Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of

your letter dated Dec. 31, 1974 and have noted the contents. Any householder

devotee who is working full-time (with his wife) as a sankirtana book

distributer, of temple managerial duties, artist, cook, etc. shall be provided

food, shelter, and other bare minimum necessities by the temple itself. They

should not cook their own meals separate from the temple meals. If they have

children, then some minimal allowance may be given according to the number of

children. If they want anything extra or over and above what the temple

president sees as absolute necessity, then they should work outside--the temple

cannot pay for anything beyond the bare necessities. And definitely, the BBT

cannot pay any salary to anybody. Our philosophy is "simple living and high

thinking"--not sense gratification. The temple presidents and leaders (elder

students) must show this by example. Temple or asrama means for renunciation

and renounced persons. If one is engaged in self-realization process, then his

material necessities become almost nil. Persons who do not like this can work



760803r3.par ConversationsBhagavan: Yes. No one is getting any

salary here, they are just working and taking...Prabhupada: Yes, that's all.

Why salary? Krsna's servant. We are eternal servant. That is the beauty of our

institution. We have no hired men. Unless one is sincere, why he'll work?

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