Srila Prabhupada's Morning Walks -- "Advancement Of Maya" -- Bombay, November 11, 1975

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Bombay, November 11, 1975

 

 

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Prabhupada: Every, every demigod...

Dr. Patel: No, Devi Purana.

 

Prabhupada: ...has got some description in different Puranas.

 

Dr. Patel: This is in Devi Purana, Bhairava-Bharya

 

Prabhupada: There are sattvic, rajasic, tamasic Purana. And

Srimad-Bhagavatam is maha-purana. Hare Krsna.

 

Indian man (1): (Hindi) [break]

 

Dr. Patel: Air conditioning is not necessary. [break]

 

Prabhupada: That is life. This artificial life is no life. Bhaktivinoda

Thakura has described this modern civilization of artificial life. So he says,

jada vidya sab, mayara vaibhava. He declares all these artificial way of life,

advancement of material civilization, means advancement of influence of maya.

Jada vidya sab, mayara vaibhava. Expansion of the influence of maya. Then? What

is the result? The result is anitya samsare, moho janmeiya. Jada vidya sab,

mayar vaibhava, tomara bhajane badha. maya means forgetfulness of God. This is

maya. maya means the more you forget Krsna, the more you are involved in maya.

Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [bg. 7.14]. So maya's business is to

cover you more and more as you forget Krsna. This is maya's business. So

therefore, expansion of maya's influence means forgetting Krsna. Tomara bhajane

badha. They're all hindrances only to make spiritual progress and to understand

God. So what is the net result? The net result is anitya samsare, moha janmeiya.

We are already attached to this material world, which is temporary. By this

expansion of maya's influence we become more attached. Attachment is already

there, but we become more and more attached. In this way, jiba ke karaye gadha.

So he is already ass; he becomes first-class ass. That's all. (laughter) Is that

all right? Bhaktivinoda Thakura has analyzed. "He is already an ass," sa eva

go-kharah [sB 10.84.13]. Khara means ass. "But he becomes a first-class ass." So

you'll find all these rascals, materialists, they are all first-class asses,

that's all. Every day you find they are discovering new theory, new theory:

"Atom, electron, this tron, that tron." Not the jivatma. They remain the same

ass, first-class ass, scientific ass. They are finding out so many atoms,

electrons, this tron, that tron, not that one ten-thousandth part of God. That

they cannot find. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca jiva-bhago sa

vijneyah [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. They have not come to that point, that one

ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair is the jiva, living entity. They have

not come to that, neither they'll be able to come to that, because they remain

ass, more and more ass, first-class ass, O.K. ass and then going on, the quality

of ass.

 

Dr. Patel: When the atom bomb was exploded, Sir Rutherford of England said

that "This is nothing but the mental process. Real process somewhere else." He

has spoke these words.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

 

Dr. Patel: Highest scientist.

 

Prabhupada: They are finding out a small particle, particle, particle,

still going on. You were reading me the other day? So...

 

Brahmananda: Yes.

 

Dr. Patel: Small particle than the...

 

Prabhupada: But the real particle they have not found. Real particle is

one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. That they have not found.

 

Brahmananda: They find these particles in their machines called

atom-smashers. They take atoms and they smash them together...

 

Prabhupada: But that measure means still they are measuring material.

Apareyam. These are all apara. They cannot come to that. Itas tu viddhi me

prakrtim param. There is another atom. That, these rascals, they do not know,

neither they'll be able to come out. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita,

apareyam: "These are all material." Itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param: "There is

another atom." (aside:) Hare Krsna. And where is that science? Apareyam itas tu

viddhi me prakrtim param: And that atom, jiva-bhutah, that is living entity.

That, the rascals, they do not know. They're still hovering upon material

particles.

 

Dr. Patel: No, but they get inkling of real higher source of all these

things...

 

Prabhupada: No, higher...

 

Dr. Patel: ...slowly and slowly. They have their own way.

 

Prabhupada: if you do not know what is that higher.

 

Dr. Patel: They have tried to know, sir.

 

Prabhupada: This kind of will not help them. No, no. That is the... That

is there. They'll not know. Panthas tu koti-satavatsara-sampragamyo vayor athapi

manaso muni-pungavanam, so 'pyasti yat-prapada-simny avicintya tattve. Still it

will remain inconceivable. These rascals, they do not know that. You have to

simply hear from Krsna that there is another atom, apareyam. These are inferior.

Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param. There is another atom. What is that?

That is jiva-bhutah. You have to take this knowledge from Krsna, not by

searching out. How you can find out one ten-thousandth part of it? It is not

possible. You have no machine, no source of knowledge.

 

Brahmananda: These particles that they have just recently found, the

life-span is incredibly small, one-millionth of a trillionth of a second.

 

Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Brahmananda: That's their life-span.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Life...

 

Dr. Patel: How they measured it?

 

Prabhupada: Whatever they say, we have to believe. That's all. (laughter)

Except Krsna, we shall believe everything. When Krsna says something: "No, no,

these are all fictitious. There is no Krsna, and these are all imagination." And

as a rascal says, "Oh, this is scientific." This is going on. So we are not so

fools that we shall believe these scientific rascals. We believe Krsna. That's

all. This is Krsna consciousness. We are not going to believe the scientific

rascals.

 

Dr. Patel: All, all good, these do good, sir. I believe you should not be

very harsh to the scientist. I am sorry...

 

Prabhupada: They are not scientists. They are rascals. I don't accept them

as scientists. They, if they are putting forward theories every day, what kind

of scientist? They are not scientist. Scientist means fixed up idea. It cannot

be changed. (aside:) Hare Krsna. That is scientist. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Na

hanyate hanyamane sarire [bg. 2.20].

 

Harikesa: Just consider how great they are. They've managed to isolate one

little tiny electron and one little tiny positron, and then they send one one

way, and they send one the other way, and then they meet and they smash.

 

Prabhupada: So what is the benefit?

 

Harikesa: But that's so difficult to do, you know. There are so many

things get in the way.

 

Prabhupada: So you can... Difficult to do, you can count ever... It is

very difficult to count this sand. Can you count? It is very difficult. But you

can waste your time in counting. (laughter) You are rascal; you can go on: "I

shall count how many." But it is not possible. So that is rascaldom. Which is

not possible, that we'll get. Now it is... Everyone knows there are some

particles. Now you go on counting. Don't eat. Don't sleep. Go on counting. And

sastra says, ""Even if you are able to count this, you'll not be able to know

God, even if you are able." This is not possible to count, but even if you

become so expert that you can count one day, still it will be acintya tattva.

That is... There is a verse that even one day you become the rolled sky... The

sky is so big. You can roll it just like you roll up your bedding. And even if

you can, all the atoms constituted, still you'll not be possible to know,

understand God.

 

Dr. Patel: Because their main hypothesis is... That is near the mind. (?)

 

Prabhupada: Yes. So evam manasa-gocarah. You cannot have it.

sruti-pramanam. You have to hear from the authority. Jaya. So if you want to

waste your time in that way, you can do that. And next birth, you become a dog.

That's all. This human life you waste in this way, dog's obstinacy; Krsna will

say, "All right, come on. You become a dog." Human life... Even Canakya Pandita

says, a??cyusah ksana eko 'pi na labhyah svarna-kotibhih: "Even one part of your

duration of life, one moment, you cannot get it back again in exchange of

millions of golden coins." Svarna-kotibhih. Sa cet nirarthakam: "If you waste

that time unnecessarily, then you do not know what you are losing, even from

material point of view." This is Vedic civilization, not to waste a single

moment of life for useless attempt. That is Vedic civilization. Every moment

should be utilized. Especially for the human being, it's so valuable. And they

are finding out sporting, swimming and surfing -- simply all programs of wasting

time, especially in the Western countries. How much they have invented, I see

only and laugh. The elderly men of your age, of course, maybe my age also, they

are swimming and surfing. How they have invented means of...

 

Brahmananda: Fishing also.

 

Prabhupada: Fishing. Yes, all old men, they are sitting hours and hours

for capturing one fish. (laughter) Just see their civilization.

 

Dr. Patel: Because they are body conscious.

 

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, we see that how they have invented various

ways of wasting time, which is so valuable. That is our view.

 

Indian: To them time is nothing because time is eternity after all.

 

Prabhupada: Time is eternity, but your formation is not eternity. Your

formation is temporary. Time is eternity. (aside:) Thank you. No. Time is

eternity, that's a fact, but your formation... Asann api klesada asa deha. It is

temporary. That's all right. You know, I know, everyone. But it will simply give

you pains, although it is asat. That you do not know. Time is... Body is

temporary, but so long the body is there, you have to suffer. That body may be a

ant's body or Brahma's body. So as soon as you get a material body, you have to

suffer and go on examining urine and stool. (laughter) Hare Krsna. [break]

....and that is good wealth. And take some urine and find out, "Here is life."

That's all. They are examining very scientifically. Why don't you...? The dead

man's urine, if you examine and find out some injection and give it in life.

Life is gone away, soul, and they are finding out life from the urine. (aside:)

Hare Krsna. Jaya. [break] ...but it is very reasonable. They are finding out out

so many atoms, particles, but in the Bhagavad-gita it is clearly said that all

these atoms are apara, inferior. Find out the para, the superior atom. That is

life. (Hindi question and answer) But you cannot bring in life by so-called

mantras. That is not possible. Hare Krsna. (Hindi) [break] ...can write to these

particle men that "You are finding so many, but there is another particle which

is one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. Find out that. That

is life. That is superior." And quote Bhagavad-gita, apareyam itas tu viddhi me

prakrtim param. "Another atom." Give them information at least.

[break]...Krsna's message. Simply by reading one book, Bhagavad-gita, you become

learned. [break]

 

Brahmananda: Scientists will say that "We cannot find this jiva particle

in our atom-smasher machines."

 

Prabhupada: But you are blind. Therefore you have to hear. A blind man is

going forward towards the sea, so one who has got eyes, he'll say, "Don't go

there." Then, if you go, go to the sea, you'll die. Andha yathandhair

upaniyamanah [sB 7.5.31]. Because you are blind, therefore I am giving you the

information. You take it. You don't go there. You'll not find.

 

Brahmananda: :But they do not think that they are blind.

 

Prabhupada: That is the disease. That is the disease. A diseased man never

thinks that he is diseased. He thinks, "I am quite all right." But a physician

will say, "Oh, no, no, you are diseased." He says, "I am quite all right."

Cancer. And then, after few days, finished. They do not know that "Why I am

dying?" They think death is natural. But Bhagavad-gita says, na hanyate

hanyamane sarire [bg. 2.20]. They have no brain to inquire that here is

information that even after the destruction, the jiva does not die. But he does

not inquire. He says, "Death is natural. Let me die." This is blind. They agree

to die. And Bhagavad-gita says, na hanyate hanyamane sarire: [bg. 2.20] "There

is no death even after destruction..." They will not inquire about this. So

blind. So blind. This should be inquiry, that "If it is a fact that even after

destruction of the body I do not die, then what is that position?" That inquiry

is also not there. They are so fool. That is human life, athato brahma jijnasa,

to inquire about the spirit soul. (aside:) Hare Krsna. Jaya. (Hindi) Hare Krsna.

Jaya. [break] Bhelpuri? Very popular. Yes. Picnic.

 

Harikesa: The scientists will say that their particles are smaller than

one ten-thousandth the tip of a hair.

 

Prabhupada: First of all find out one ten-thousandth. Then talk. Find out.

 

Harikesa: They make measurements with, to the twenty-second power, like a

decimal point and twenty-two zeroes and then a one. We were just talking about

quarks.

 

Prabhupada: Quarks?

 

Harikesa: Quark. Yes. The quark is the... There are things called hedons,

and the quark is the smallest possible combination of elements that make a

hedon, which makes up the protons and electrons. They haven't seen them yet.

They just thought they might be there.

 

Prabhupada: :Again, "Might be. Maybe." [break]

 

Harikesa: We were wondering, Srila Prabhupada, about all these people they

are keeping alive artificially in the boxes. They have so many people in boxes

in the hospitals they are keeping alive. So the big battle is raging whether or

not they should pull out the plug.

 

Prabhupada: Keeping life?

 

Harikesa: They have these artificial machines that pump blood and breathe

and digest food, and they pump everything into the body and they keep it alive.

So all the scientists are wondering if they should pull out the plugs because it

wastes so much money.

 

Saurabha: There is some disease now that people enter in some coma, and

with the machine they keep them alive for thirty years. There's some lady. She

is already thirty and the machine since thirty years...

 

Prabhupada: So it's still limited, thirty years, not permanently.

 

Saurabha: No, no.

 

Prabhupada: Then where is the solution? What is the solution? If after

thirty years it is going to be collapsed, then what is the use?

 

Devotee (1): But it's the moral problem that they're having, isn't it? Not

the sickness, but the moral problem of either killing off one person or letting

him continue to survive.

 

Prabhupada: Well, they have no moral. They are killing so many persons.

That is killing. That is not... They are expert in killing.

 

Saurabha: But they're afraid to take decision. They're very much confused.

 

Harikesa: They're afraid to take a decision whether to kill them or not by

pulling out the plug.

 

Prabhupada: You take decision or not, he will be killed. That you cannot

say. You are becoming very much moralist, whether to kill, but it will be

killed. You cannot save him. That is not possible.

 

Harikesa: So, they should just keep the machines going?

 

Prabhupada: No, they should stop this nonsense and save money. That's all.

Therefore they are called rascals. It will not be persisting. It is temporary.

So why should you spend money? That is intelligence.

 

Saurabha: They have examined those people, and they say they have the same

symptoms as plant life.

 

Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Saurabha: Not more than that.

 

Prabhupada: And in our list the plants are there. Jalaja nava-laksani

sthavara laksa-vimsati. Sthavara means plants. There are jalaja, aquatics, and

sthavara means plant. All living entities, different forms... Bhagavad-gita

says, sarva-yonisu kaunteya [bg. 14.4]. As many forms are there of the living

entities. But what are these forms? Forms means the spirit soul is one, and he

is covered by these material elements. That is form. So either your form or my

form, but the ingredients are the same, bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh [bg. 7.4].

[break] The soul is the same, and the ingredients of the body are the same. That

is explained in Iso..., ekatvam anupasyate. Just like from gold, take from the

mine -- you make earring or this finger ring, the ingredients are the same. The

forms may be different. [break] Apollo airship, thousands of technologists and

scientists were engaged to make this Apollo, and it burst out. So they have no

foreseeing power that it will burst out. At that time they began to pray to God.

 

Gopala Krsna: I think President Ford said, "Every American should pray to

God."

 

Prabhupada: Why?

 

Gopala Krsna: When that Apollo thing, it was burst, he said. He said we

should all pray to God.

 

Prabhupada: Why God? Why not scientist ? (laughter) Pray to scientist. Why

the order was for God, not for the scientist? Churchill also, when the war

condition was very, very severe -- they were going to be finished -- then he

asked everyone to go to church and pray. That "V"? "V"? Victory: "For victory,

go and pray."

 

Harikesa: Well, they were thinking God was on their side.

 

Prabhupada: Yes, but they are thinking of God but in a different way, that

"God is my order supplier. God is not to be worshiped, but He has to supply as I

order." That's all. [break]

 

Brahmananda: ...this book written by one priest during the war. The name

of the book was Somebody Up There Likes Me, referring to God.

 

Prabhupada: Still, he did not dare to utter the name of God.

 

Brahmananda: No, he said "somebody."

 

Prabhupada: "Somebody."

 

Brahmananda: "Somebody Up There Likes Me."

 

Prabhupada: As soon as he had written "God likes me," nobody would

purchase the book. (laughter) Nobody would. He is clever -- "Somebody."

 

Harikesa: One devotee asked me, "If the scientists don't know anything

about the universe, then how is it they can predict exactly when there is going

to be an eclipse of the sun or the moon for hundreds of years in advance?"

 

Prabhupada: That is very preliminary knowledge. That is not... Just like

you can predict that after two months there will be winter. That does not mean

that you are very advanced scientist. (laughter) Any child can say. The rascal

predicted that there is some comet, and it never appeared. He did. So therefore

they are rascals. What is already scheduled, everyone knows. He can say that.

[break] ...story about Kali dasa. Kali dasa was such a fool. It is a long story.

It will take time. So he was sitting on a branch of a tree and cutting. So some

intelligent man came, was passing: "Oh, you rascal, you'll fall down." So he did

not care. He would go on. And when he actually fell down, he, "Oh, you are so

nice astrologer." What is astrology? It is a common sense. If I say, "At six

o'clock in the evening there will be no sun," (laughter) is that astrology? Even

it is astrology, this astrology is known to everyone. Hare Krsna. [break]

 

Indian man (2): ...of anecdote where gopis, you know? When gopis' dress

were taken by Krsna, He wanted these gopis to give away all their humility and

humbleness, to show everything. "Then only, unless you surrender to Me, you

cannot have any salvation." So when they took out all their dress and then went

prayed before Him without any dress, then only they have become muktas. Like

that Draupadi also. When Duhsasana...

 

Prabhupada: That is Mayavadi interpretation.

 

Indian man (2): No, that is what I...

 

Prabhupada: Why should you interpret? Gopis prayed Krsna and all the

Katyayani devis that "Let Krsna become our husband." So Krsna fulfilled their

desire because a woman can become naked only before husband. That is the

purport, no other interpretation. Hare Krsna. Krsna, when that so many gopis

called, "So you wanted Me as your husband? All right, I become your husband."

That's all. Because for a woman there is no shame before husband. So this was

acceptance of husband. And so far renouncing everything, they had already done

that. Therefore we take everything, sastra, as it is, no interpretation. Then,

simply by making oneself naked, he would have gone to Vrndavana. They interpret.

These Mayavadis, they interpret in so many ways just to make the statement of

Bhagavata story. This is their real purpose. Hare Krsna. Jaya. (Hindi) Without

being liberated, can anyone expect to become wife of Krsna? They were already

liberated. These interpretation are there only to minimize the value of Krsna

and the value of gopis. Mayavada bhasya sunile haya sarva nasa. Caitanya

Mahaprabhu has warned, "If you hear the comments by the Mayavadis, then you are

finished."

 

Harikesa: Why do people use spiritual things for material enjoyment when

material enjoyment is available by itself?

 

Prabhupada: That is another foolishness. It looks like material; it is not

material. Completely spiritual. Your body is moving on spiritual strength, but

you have no eyes to see spiritual strength. You see the body. And when the

spirit goes away, you cry, "My father has gone away.Why my father has"...?

"Your father is there. The body is there." So you have no spiritual vision:

therefore you are thinking that gopis' lila with Krsna is also material.

Avajananti mam mudha [bg. 9.11]. This is mudha's business. They are thinking

spiritual activities of Krsna as material. That is avajananti. Param bhavam

ajanantah. Param bhavam, the spiritual activities, they do not know. Therefore

it is forbidden for materialistic person to hear about gopis' pastimes with

Krsna. It is forbidden, that's all, because the rascal will take it as material.

[break] ... Rupa Gosvami and Sanatana Gosvami and other Gosvamis, they left

everything in the material world. Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandala-pati-srenim sada

tuccha... They gave up everything. Bhutva dina-ganesakau karunaya kaupina,

gopi-bhavamrta... Then, in Vrndavana, they were thinking of the gopis' lila. So

after giving up all these things, again they were thinking of material things?

Gopi-bhavamrtabdhi-lahari-kallola-magnau. So they were thinking of gopis'

pastimes with Krsna. So after giving up everything material, again material?

Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, ramyad kascid upasana vraja-vadhubhir ya kalpita. So

Caitanya Mahaprabhu, after so much renunciation, so much vairagya and strict

following the sannyasa rule, again He is recommending gopi? This is foolishness.

Gopis' lila with Krsna is completely spiritual. They do not understand. They

think it is material. Therefore it is better not to go there. First of all

become experienced in spiritual life; then try to understand gopis' lila.

 

Devotee (3): [break] You were speaking about the blind person who is

thinking that he can see. He is in illusion. How can we best convince him that

he is not able to see?

 

Prabhupada: You have to convince him that "Your eyes are imperfect." Then

you can tell, "Just close your eyes. Can you see the eyelid? It closes, but you

cannot see. Why? You have got eyes. When there is some particle in the eye, so

close and find out where is the particle. Why making this way, this way, this

way? So what is the value of your eyes? This is the proof. You cannot see even

your eyelids. So why do... Why you are so much proud of seeing?" Is it not?

 

Devotee (3): Yes.

 

Prabhupada: This is conviction. He can say that "I cannot see on account

of distant place, the planet," but you see the nearest. So you cannot see

distant place things and you cannot see nearest. Then what is the value of your

eyes? That means you can see only under certain condition. So condition is

offered by somebody else. Therefore you are conditioned. Your seeing is

conditioned, because it is not absolute. So how do you believe your eyes? Hm?

 

Devotee (3): The vision of the eyes is imperfect. We have to see by

intelligence, from the authority...

 

Prabhupada: Yes. That is not intelligence; that is fact. Intelligence you

should have that "However I can perceive by the senses, the senses being

imperfect, all our perceptions are imperfect." That is intelligence.

 

Devotee (3): :Then one may ask, "Well, how do I recognize that this is the

bona fide authority?"

 

Prabhupada: :Who authorized? Another rascal, that's all. He's a rascal.

Another rascal... Just like sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh

[sB 2.3.19]. A lion is being praised by the rabbit in the jungle. The rabbit is

also animal; lion is also. So what is the use of lion being praised by a rabbit?

If a lion is praised by a rabbit, does it mean lion is more than animal? So

similarly, these so-called scientists, big men, they are being praised by small

rascals. That does not mean on account of praising, he has become more than

animal. He remains animal.

 

Devotee (3): :We see Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but they

see Him as a common man like themselves also.

 

Prabhupada: :Therefore they are mudhas. Avajananti mam mudhah. Only the

mudhas can deride. Avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritah [bg. 9.11]. It is

stated already.

 

Devotee (3): :Then how is it that some people do finally come to accept

Krsna?

 

Prabhupada: Yes. They come in the parampara system, through guru.

Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Therefore you have to go to

guru to understand. You cannot understand personally. That is not possible.

Therefore our system is to see through the guru and sastra, not by these naked

eyes. That is misleading.

 

Devotee (3): Then the key would be to recognize and appreciate the

importance of the guru.

 

Prabhupada: Parampara. Guru is also not authority by himself. He is

authority by his guru, parampara. If he is coming in the parampara system, then

he is guru. Otherwise he's not guru. Just like what we are doing? We are simply

repeating the Krsna's word. That's all. Therefore guru. And as soon as I make

addition or alteration, I am goru

 

Harikesa: Goru means?

 

Prabhupada: Goru means cow, animal. Go-kharah. Sa eva go-kharah [sB

10.84.13]. The go-kharah, these animals have been, I mean, exemplified because

these two animals work for others very heavily. The bull also loads heavily, and

the ass also loads very heavily for others, not for his own benefit. The bull is

working day and night and being whipped... (end)

 

 

Please Look at Wonders Of Krsna http://www.geocities.com/krsnajoe To get

a simple understanding of most aspects of Krsna Consciousness,Your humble

servant,,Jaya Kesava Dasa

 

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Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release 3/15/2006