Puranas : Myth or Science

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holydiscoveries, "saidevo" <saidevo> wrote:

 

 

Since water is Vishnu's abode, he has the

> name Narayana, the term naara signifying water. The name Vishnu is

> from the Sanskrit root vish, meaning to spread, enter, pervade."

-------------------------------

 

Namaskar,

 

Just a thought I have, Saidevo.What do you have to say about it : am I right

or wrong? ANd what others have to say, I could be a fool not knowledgeable

but this is my interpretation of the Puranic story. Note it is personal

opinion and not authority hence could be wrong and to be discarded after

reading if you find it wrong.

 

It is stated in our Puranas that there was water everywhere and that Lord

Vishnu rested on his Seshnag on this water. And later on Lord Vishnu's Boar

Avtaar(Incarnation) lifts Earth from the water.

 

As a Hindu I believe that the Puranas are true.

 

But when the rationalist mind laugh at us for believing such stories. So I

questioned if our Puranas are really what they mean or just false stories.

So with a rationalist mind,if you read the story it states water was

everywhere sound hilarious , how can there be water everywhere and no land.

And that Vishnu removed the earth from the water/oceans . But as a Hindu

believing that the sriptures said is a true as a Hindu , and trying to find

out if there is something hidden in it.

 

The Purana states how the Vishnu Avtaar Varaha lifted the earth form

underwater:

*"When the demon, Hiranyaksha dragged Bhoomi Devi (Mother Earth) underwater,

Vishnu took the form of Varaha (a wild boar). After a fierce battle he

overpowered the demon and lifted Bhoomi Devi from the waters. He pushed with

his snout and the land puckered forming the **Himalayan** **Mountains**. He

dragged more land from the sea and shaped the Indian subcontinent."

 

(Note: I could not find the exact wordings of the Puranas)*

 

*

*Does this not relate to the scientific thought on one of the process of

formation of continents formation of earth?Origionally, all the land mass

was one land mass and termed as Pangea, around 300 million years ago. Infact

if you cut the various continents from a map and try to join, they fit

exactly in form of a puzzle. And that the triangular part of the Indian ap

was a separate part. And when it hit the land mass in the north

(Nepalregion), it led to creation of

Himalayas and still since the two land mass are still moving the height of

Himalayas is still rising . That is what scientists say how the Himalayaswere

formed.That is till the continents formed only a small part of the globe had

a collection of land mass and hence the entire globe looked like to be of

only water.

 

 

*

*Now in the light of this knowledge that we study the Puranas,the above

story of Vishnu avtaar and what scientist give us are the same. In Puranas

they have mixed it with story and instead of writing that there was a single

landmass called PANGEA, Sages wrote "Earth was hidden in Oceans" as all

continents formed a single land mass it looked like there was water

everywhere and that is what is mentioned in the Vishnu Purana story.

 

Does it now show that the Puranas written by Sages have hidden the same

story that Science is trying to discover now and we Hindus knew it or the

Sages knew it.

 

Probably from this we can infer that in the Puranas there is Science mixed

in mythological and allegorical stories on the formation of earth. In this

light we can even fix the date of Vishnu Avtaar Varaha as 300 million years

back or whatever the scientist think the time the continents drifted.

 

Correct me if I am wrong. This is personal opinions , I am not a scientist

who knows all of Science nor a Sage who knows all scriptures. So could be

wrong.

 

 

--

Namaskar,

devishakti_india

( divyabhakti )

( http://spiritualhinduism.blogspot.com )

 

 

 

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I have the answer to all your question in a cd format. Kindly provide me with

your domain space name so that i shall upload these file and you could listen

to them.

 

>>Next: But when the rationalist mind laugh at us for believing such >>stories

Spirituality is beyond science -- Sai Baba.

 

For your information: The declarations of the upanishads are called mantras;

they are statements that are to be reflected upon, whereby the individual comes

to feel inspired and uplifted.. all our philosophical test books are written out

by greeat seers and thinkers in the form of sutras. The term sutra means

strings. the strings on which the arguments and thoughts are strung together to

become an enchanting garland of ideas. Sutras are the explanatory statements and

in their depths, they are also exploratory in their functions. The philosophers

job is not only to explain things but also to explore the possiblities of wiser

ways of living and to bring to the recognition of the student the greater

wisdom. equipped with which he can become more efficient in his life. All the

six schools of philosophy(Darshanas) in india are given out in the form of

sutras. Besides we have the brahma sutras expounding the

advaita philosophy, nd the jaimini sutras explaning the ritualistic portion of

the vedas and thus propounding the karma philosophy. The sutras are the terse

sayings pregnant with deep significances and ample suggestions.

Bhagavat this philosophy of love for god stands today attributed to the famous

devarishi narada whoes personality is very familiar throught the puranas.

 

Jai Sita Ram

 

 

 

devishakti_india <devishaktiindia > wrote:

Namaskar,Just a thought I have, Saidevo.What do you have to say about it : am I

rightor wrong? ANd what others have to say, I could be a fool not

knowledgeablebut this is my interpretation of the Puranic story. Note it is

personalopinion and not authority hence could be wrong and to be discarded

afterreading if you find it wrong.It is stated in our Puranas that there was

water everywhere and that LordVishnu rested on his Seshnag on this water. And

later on Lord Vishnu's BoarAvtaar(Incarnation) lifts Earth from the water.As a

Hindu I believe that the Puranas are true.But when the rationalist mind laugh

at us for believing such stories. So Iquestioned if our Puranas are really what

they mean or just false stories.So with a rationalist mind,if you read the story

it states water waseverywhere sound hilarious ,

how can there be water everywhere and no land.And that Vishnu removed the earth

from the water/oceans . But as a Hindubelieving that the sriptures said is a

true as a Hindu , and trying to findout if there is something hidden in it.The

Purana states how the Vishnu Avtaar Varaha lifted the earth

formunderwater:*"When the demon, Hiranyaksha dragged Bhoomi Devi (Mother Earth)

underwater,Vishnu took the form of Varaha (a wild boar). After a fierce battle

heoverpowered the demon and lifted Bhoomi Devi from the waters. He pushed

withhis snout and the land puckered forming the **Himalayan** **Mountains**.

Hedragged more land from the sea and shaped the Indian subcontinent."(Note: I

could not find the exact wordings of the Puranas)***Does this not relate to the

scientific thought on one of the process offormation of continents formation of

earth?Origionally, all the land masswas one land mass and termed as Pangea,

around 300 million years ago. Infactif you cut the various continents from a map

and try to join, they fitexactly in form of a puzzle. And that the triangular

part of the Indian apwas a separate part. And when it hit the land mass in the

north(Nepalregion), it led to creation ofHimalayas and still since the two land

mass are still moving the height ofHimalayas is still rising . That is what

scientists say how the Himalayaswereformed.That is till the continents formed

only a small part of the globe hada collection of land mass and hence the

entire globe looked like to be ofonly water.**Now in the light of this

knowledge that we study the Puranas,the abovestory of Vishnu avtaar and what

scientist give us are the same. In Puranasthey have mixed it with story and

instead of writing that there was a singlelandmass called PANGEA, Sages wrote

"Earth was hidden in Oceans" as allcontinents formed a single land mass it

looked

like there was watereverywhere and that is what is mentioned in the Vishnu

Purana story.Does it now show that the Puranas written by Sages have hidden the

samestory that Science is trying to discover now and we Hindus knew it or

theSages knew it.Probably from this we can infer that in the Puranas there is

Science mixedin mythological and allegorical stories on the formation of earth.

In thislight we can even fix the date of Vishnu Avtaar Varaha as 300 million

yearsback or whatever the scientist think the time the continents

drifted.Correct me if I am wrong. This is personal opinions , I am not a

scientistwho knows all of Science nor a Sage who knows all scriptures. So could

bewrong.--Namaskar,devishakti_india

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

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In a message dated 10/24/2005 9:04:21 AM Central Standard Time, psk_2 writes:

Manu/ yagnyavalkya/ parashara and naradya smrities. Many of the laws written by

manu is not for kali yuga they are not taken into account. kindly read them and

then pose your doubts

believe me I have read them more than once. Here are some highlights from them.

 

By his very birth a Brahmin is a deity even for the gods and the only authority

for people in this world, for the Veda is the foundation in this matter." --

Manusmrti 11:85

 

If a man of one birth (Sudra) hurls cruel words at one of the twice-born, his

tongue should be cut out, for he was born from the rear-end. If he mentions

their name or caste maliciously, a red-hot iron nail ten-fingers long should be

thrust into his mouth. If he is so proud as to instruct priests about their

duty, the king should have hot oil poured into his mouth and ears.

-- Manusmrti 8:270-272.If a man of inferior caste tries to sit down on the same

seat as a man of superior caste, he should be branded on the hip and banished,

or have his buttocks cut off.-- Manusmrti 8:281.

 

If someone born in a Ksatriya, Vaisya, or Sudra womb should be unable to pay his

fine, he may absolve himself of the debt by labour; a Brahmin should pay little

by little. The king should have women, children, madmen, and the old, the poor,

and the ill chastised with a whip, a bamboo cane, a rope, and so forth." --

Manusmrti 9:229-230."The Sudra's duty and supreme good is nothing but obedience

to famous Brahmin householders who know the Veda. If he is unpolluted, obedient

to his superiors, gentle in his speech, without a sense of 'I', and always

dependent on the Brahmins and the other (twice-born castes), he attains a

superior birth (in the next life)." -- Manusmrti 9:334-335.

"One-fourth of (the punishment for) Brahmin-killing is traditionally regarded as

(the punishment) for the killing of a Ksatriya, one-eighth for (killing) a

Vaisya, and it should be one-sixteenth for (killing) a Sudra who knows his

place." -- Manusmrti 11:127."A Brahmin is a great deity whether or not he is

learned, just as fire is a great deity whether or not it is brought to the

altar. The purifying fire with its brilliant energy is not defiled even in

cremation grounds, and when oblations of butter are placed in it at sacrifices

it grows even greater. Thus Brahmins should be revered in every way, even if

they engage in all kinds of undesirable actions, for this is the supreme deity.

If the Ksatriyas become overbearing towards the Brahmins in any way, the

Brahmins themselves should subdue them, for the Ksatriyas were born from the

Brahmins." -- Manusmrti 9:317-320."A Ksatriya in adversity may also make a

living by all of these (means); but he should never be so proud as to assume

the livelihood of his betters. If a man of the lowest caste should, through

greed, make his living by the innate activities of his superiors, the king

should confiscate his wealth and banish him immediately. One's own duty, (even)

without any good qualities, is better than someone else's duty well done; for a

man who makes his living by someone else's duty immediately falls from (his

own) caste." -- Manusmrti 10:95-97."These (castes) should live near mounds,

trees, and cremation-grounds, in mountains and in groves, recognizable and

making a living by their own innate activities. But the dwellings of 'Fierce'

Untouchables (candala) and 'Dog-cookers' (svapaca) should be outside the

village; they must use discarded bowls, and dogs and donkeys should be their

wealth. Their clothing should be the clothes of the dead, and their food should

be in broken dishes; their ornaments should be made of black iron, and they

should wander constantly. A man who carries out his duties should not seek

contact with them; they should do business with one another and marry with

those who are like them. Their food, dependent upon others, should be given to

them in a broken dish, and they should not walk about in villages and cities at

night." -- Manusmrti 10:50-54."(The king) should make a Vaisya engage in trade,

lend money, farm the land, or keep livestock; and (he should make) the Sudra

the slave of the twice-born. A Brahmin should out of mercy support both a

Ksatriya and a Vaisya if they are starved for a livelihood, and have them carry

out their own innate activities. But if a Brahmin, out of greed and a sense of

power, makes twice-born men who have undergone the transformative rituals do

the work of slaves against their will, the king should make him pay a fine of

six hundred (pennies). He may, however, make a Sudra do the work of a slave,

whether he is bought or not bought; for the Self-existent one created him to be

the slave of the Brahmin. Even if he is set free by his master, a Sudra is not

set free from slavery; for since that is innate in him, who can take it from

him? There are seven ways that slaves come into being: taken under a flag (of

war), becoming a slave in order to eat food, born in the house, bought, given,

inherited from ancestors, or enslaved as a punishment. A wife, a son, and a

slave: these three are traditionally said to have no property; whatever

property they acquire belongs to the man to whom they belong. A Brahmin may

with confidence take away any possession from a Sudra; for since nothing at all

can belong to him as his own, his property can be taken away by his master. (The

king) should make the Vaisya and the Sudra carry out their own innate activities

diligently; for if the two of them should slip from their own innate activities,

they would shake this universe into chaos." -- Manusmrti 8:410-418."Good looks

do not matter to them, nor do they care about youth; 'A man!' they say, and

enjoy sex with him, whether he is good-looking or ugly. By running after men

like whores, by their fickle minds, and by their natural lack of affection

these women are unfaithful to their husbands even when they are zealously

guarded here. Knowing that their very own nature is like this, as it was born

at the creation by the Lord of Creatures (Prajapati), a man should make the

utmost effort to guard them. The bed and the seat, jewellery, lust, anger,

crookedness, a malicious nature, and bad conduct are what Manu assigned to

women. There is no ritual with Vedic verses for women; this is a firmly

established point of law. For women, who have no virile strength, and no Vedic

verses, are falsehood; this is well established." -- Manusmrti 9:14-18."A male

child is born when the semen of the man is greater (than that of the woman),

and a female child when (the semen) of the woman is greater (than that of the

man); if both are equal, a hermaphrodite is born, or a boy and a girl; and if

(the semen) is weak or scanty, the opposite will occur." -- Manusmrti 3:49.

"....for killing a goose, a crane, a heron, a peacock, a monkey, a falcon, or a

vulture, he should give a cow. For killing a horse, he should give a garment;

for an elephant, five black bulls; for a goat or sheep, a draught ox; for a

donkey, a one-year-old (calf). But for killing carnivorous wild animals he

should give a milk-cow, and for non-carnivores, a heifer; for a camel, a

'berry' (a small measurement in copper, silver or gold). To become clean after

killing an unchaste woman of any of the four castes a man should give a leather

bag, a bow, a billy-goat, or a sheep, individually according to the caste." --

Manusmrti 11:136-139.

"He (the king) should arise in the last watch of the night and, unpolluted and

with a concentrated mind, offer an oblation into the fire; then he should

honour the Brahmins and enter his fine court-room. He should stay there

greeting all his subjects, and then dismiss them; and when he has dismissed all

his subjects he should take counsel with his counsellors (advisory cabinet). He

should take counsel unobserved, climbing to a private place on the back of a

hill or a roof-terrace, or in a wilderness that has no vegetation. A king whose

counsel is not known by the common people when they come together will enjoy the

entire earth even if he has a poor treasury. At the time of taking counsel he

should have removed idiots, the mute, blind, or deaf; animals and very old

people; women, barbarians, and those who are ill or who lack a part of the

body. For those who are despised disclose counsel, and so do animals and,

especially, women; therefore he should be cautious among them. At noon or

midnight, when he has rested and overcome his weariness, he should think,

either alone or with those (advisers), about religion, profit, and pleasure,

and about attaining them when they are mutually opposed, about giving daughters

in marriage and protecting his sons, about sending ambassadors and finishing

what has to be done, about what is going on in the harem and the movements of

his secret agents." -- Manusmrti 7:145-153.

"Men must make their women dependent day and night, and keep under their own

control those who are attached to sensory objects. Her father guards her in

childhood, her husband guards her in youth, and her sons guard her in old age.

A woman is not fit for independence." -- Manusmrti 9:2-4."A girl, a young

woman, or even an old woman should not do anything independently, even in (her

own) house. In childhood a woman should be under her father's control, in youth

under her husband's, and when her husband is dead, under her sons'. She should

not have independence. A woman should not try to separate herself from her

father, her husband, or her sons, for her separation from them would make both

(her own and her husband's) families contemptible. She should always be

cheerful, and clever at household affairs; she should keep her utensils

well-polished and not have too free a hand in spending. When her father, or her

brother with her father's permission, gives her to someone, she should obey that

man while he is alive and not violate her vow to him when he is dead.

Benedictory verses are recited and a sacrifice to the Lord of Creatures

(Prajapati) is performed at weddings to make them auspicious, but it is the act

of giving away (the bride) that makes (the groom) her master. A husband who

performs always makes his woman happy, both when she is in her fertile season

and when she is not, both here on earth and in the world beyond. A virtuous

wife should constantly serve her husband like a god, even if he behaves badly,

freely indulges his lust, and is devoid of any good qualities. Apart (from

their husbands), women cannot sacrifice or undertake a vow or fast; it is

because a wife obeys her husband that she is exalted in heaven. A virtuous wife

should never do anything displeasing to the husband who took her hand in

marriage, when he is alive or dead, if she longs for her husband's world (after

death). When her husband is dead she may fast as much as she likes, (living) on

auspicious flowers, roots, and fruits, but she should not even mention the name

of another man. She should be long-suffering until death, self-restrained, and

chaste, striving (to fulfill) the unsurpassed duty of women who have one

husband. Many thousands of Brahmins who were chaste from their youth have gone

to heaven without begetting offspring to continue the family. A virtuous wife

who remains chaste when her husband has died goes to heaven just like those

chaste men, even if she has no sons. But a woman who violates her (vow to her

dead) husband because she is greedy for progeny is the object of reproach here

on earth and loses the world beyond. No (legal) progeny are begotten here by

another man or in another man's wife; nor is a second husband ever prescribed

for virtuous women. A woman who abandons her own inferior (caste birth) husband

and lives with a superior (caste birth) man becomes an object of reproach in

this world; she is said to be 'previously had by another man'. A woman who is

unfaithful to her husband is an object of reproach in this world; (then) she is

reborn in the womb of a jackal and is tormented by the diseases born of her

evil." -- Manusmrti 5:147-164."When the king has taken counsel about all of

this with his counsellors, and when he has exercised and bathed, he should

enter the harem at noon to eat. There he should eat food over which Vedic

verses that dispel poison have been chanted, food that has been well tested by

kitchen servants who are like his second self, who cannot be seduced and who

know the time (for food). And he should clean all of his articles with waters

that destroy poison, and he should always be circumspect about wearing jewels

that destroy poison. Well-tested women whose clothing and ornaments have been

thoroughly cleaned should attentively caress him with fans, water, and incense.

In the same way, he should be careful about his carriage, bed, seat, and food,

and about bathing, anointing and adorning his body, and all his ornaments. When

he has eaten, he should take his pleasure with the women in the harem; and when

he has taken his pleasure at the proper time, he should think again about the

things he must do. In full regalia, he should inspect the armed forces again,

and all the vehicles, weapons, and ornaments. When he has performed his

twilight rituals, he should arm himself, and in the inner chamber he should

hear about the movements of his spies and those who report secrets. When he has

dismissed these people and gone to another inner chamber, he should again enter

the harem to eat, surrounded by women. When he has again eaten something there,

his spirits lifted by instrumental music, he should lie down and then arise at

the proper time free from fatigue. A king should follow this regime when he is

healthy; but when he is not well, he may entrust all of this to his retainers."

-- Manusmrti 7:216-226.

"One thing mixed with another should not be sold, nor anything that is spoiled,

deficient, far away, or concealed. If one girl is shown but another is given to

the bridegroom, he may marry both of them for the single bride-price; that is

what Manu says." -- Manusmrti 8:203-4.

"Just as good seed, sown in a good field, culminates in a birth, so the son born

from an Aryan father in an Aryan mother deserves every transformative ritual.

Some wise men value the seed, others the field, and still others both the seed

and the field; but this is the final decision on this subject: seed sown in the

wrong field perishes right inside it; and a field by itself with no seed also

remains barren. And since sages have been born in (female) animals by the power

of the seed, and were honoured and valued, therefore the seed is valued." --

Manusmrti 10:69-72.

"A twice-born man so deluded that he has drunk liquor should drink boiling-hot

liquor, and when his body has been scalded by it he is freed from that offence.

Or he may drink boiling-hot cow's urine, water, milk, clarified butter, or

liquid cow dung until he dies." -- Manusmrti 11:91-92."For stealing raw or

cooked food, a carriage, bed, or seat, flowers, roots, or fruits, the cleansing

is swallowing the five cow-products (pancagavya)." -- Manusmrti 11:166.i would

point out to you that these are not some mis-translated max muller heresies but

they are valid renditions of the shastra. If you have the same verses in a

different translation the please by all means print them in this forum to show

that the laws of manu are defendable. Even orthodox hindus shy away from

bringing up manu becuase he is such an emberassment to bharat. I dont know if

you are female pst, but if you are it is shocking that you would attempt to

defend such a sexist cruel man.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/24/2005 11:34:26 AM Central Standard Time, devishaktiindia writes:

Posting Krishna sites not allowed , but Islamic sites are allowed.VaBhai!!Hypocrisy!

i am not muslim or vaishnava. you asked about manu and I responded only with

quotes by manu showing how evil he is. if you have a better translation of the

quoted verses then by all means post them. I have never supported islamic,

christian, or vaishnava views. My views are only vira shaivite. If you dont

like my views, why did you just join my vira shiva message group?

[Guest guest]

Dear Punnyatman,

 

Again you have quoted only manu smriti, what about the

ohter three.

upaadi keli ye upadayi ki zaroorat hai.

Brahma jyan jisko mila hai usey Brahmin kahate hai,

just becoz you are bron to a brahmin family you don't

deserve the status of Brahmin (wrong interpretation )

there are kshatriya Brahmin described in hindu law

there are shudra brahmin mentioned in hindu law

there are visya brahmin mentioned in hindu law

 

Sahasra sheersha purusha Sahasraksha sahasra path,

Svabhoomim vishvato akhilam. yem poornyan tejasa.

swayee narsha bhuvam punashcha vimalee kuruvan nivrto

yathi hee. antra vyapya bahishcha sarva jagatam

pranatmako bashate.

here we do not differenciate between atman and

parmatman. we see only parmatma. well discribe in

patanjali yoga sutra. ano raneeya mahato maheeyam.

from microcosom to macrocosom he dwells in poornatha

and tejatha.

 

here Shasra does not mean a lord with 1000 head 1000

eyes 1000 hands this means SARVAM (SARVAM MAYE

SAHASRA....TOTALLY A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION.

poornayat evam shakaram lokha shankaram, Sa vishwa

akhilam vishnumayam.

 

a shoe maker cannot be a computer programmer by

profession how much ever he tries to be he will fail

misserably.

a person who has drunk the nector of veda cannot enjoy

wordly pleassure, well here there is a possibility if

his ego takes the precedence then yes he will fail

misserably, do did our shankara in 8th century AD

A soldier cannot sit and chant mantras if he does then

is not doing justice to his profession.

classification is based on the competence level of

every individual in the respective field.

 

>By his very birth a Brahmin is a deity even for the

> gods and the only

> authority for people in this world, for the

> -- Manusmrti 11:85

yes your very birth is brahmin, brahma jyan.. Take a

look at a small baby, does he know vedas well the

answer to this is given in Ramayan, aaranya khand.

 

>Veda is the foundation in this matter.".

i regard conciousness _______ derivate as its

_________.

 

your job is to fill this up so that i can know you

better.

 

I highly appreciate and regard you priya bhandu you

have atleast read manu smiriti. Many does not take

pain to know our smrities and jumps into arguments and

discussion. False pride tough luck . Any ways i humbly

request you to go through the other three smirites of

which parashara and naradiya smiriti is used for kali

yuga.

 

hope and wish you best of luck

 

Jai Sita Ram

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- JCsharanananda wrote:

 

>

> In a message dated 10/24/2005 9:04:21 AM Central

> Standard Time,

> psk_2 writes:

>

> Manu/ yagnyavalkya/ parashara and naradya smrities.

> Many of the laws

> written by manu is not for kali yuga they are not

> taken into account. kindly read

> them and then pose your doubts

>

>

> believe me I have read them more than once. Here

> are some highlights from

> them.

>

> By his very birth a Brahmin is a deity even for the

> gods and the only

> authority for people in this world, for the Veda is

> the foundation in this matter."

> -- Manusmrti 11:85

>

> If a man of one birth (Sudra) hurls cruel words at

> one of the twice-born,

> his tongue should be cut out, for he was born from

> the rear-end. If he mentions

> their name or caste maliciously, a red-hot iron nail

> ten-fingers long should

> be thrust into his mouth. If he is so proud as to

> instruct priests about

> their duty, the king should have hot oil poured

> into his mouth and ears.

> -- Manusmrti 8:270-272.

>

> If a man of inferior caste tries to sit down on the

> same seat as a man of

> superior caste, he should be branded on the hip and

> banished, or have his

> buttocks cut off.-- Manusmrti 8:281.

>

> If someone born in a Ksatriya, Vaisya, or Sudra

> womb should be unable to pay

> his fine, he may absolve himself of the debt by

> labour; a Brahmin should pay

> little by little. The king should have women,

> children, madmen, and the old,

> the poor, and the ill chastised with a whip, a

> bamboo cane, a rope, and so

> forth." -- Manusmrti 9:229-230.

>

> "The Sudra's duty and supreme good is nothing but

> obedience to famous

> Brahmin householders who know the Veda. If he is

> unpolluted, obedient to his

> superiors, gentle in his speech, without a sense of

> 'I', and always dependent on

> the Brahmins and the other (twice-born castes), he

> attains a superior birth (in

> the next life)." -- Manusmrti 9:334-335.

>

> "One-fourth of (the punishment for) Brahmin-killing

> is traditionally

> regarded as (the punishment) for the killing of a

> Ksatriya, one-eighth for (killing)

> a Vaisya, and it should be one-sixteenth for

> (killing) a Sudra who knows his

> place." -- Manusmrti 11:127.

>

> "A Brahmin is a great deity whether or not he is

> learned, just as fire is a

> great deity whether or not it is brought to the

> altar. The purifying fire

> with its brilliant energy is not defiled even in

> cremation grounds, and when

> oblations of butter are placed in it at sacrifices

> it grows even greater. Thus

> Brahmins should be revered in every way, even if

> they engage in all kinds of

> undesirable actions, for this is the supreme deity.

> If the Ksatriyas become

> overbearing towards the Brahmins in any way, the

> Brahmins themselves should

> subdue them, for the Ksatriyas were born from the

> Brahmins." -- Manusmrti

> 9:317-320.

>

> "A Ksatriya in adversity may also make a living by

> all of these (means); but

> he should never be so proud as to assume the

> livelihood of his betters. If a

> man of the lowest caste should, through greed, make

> his living by the innate

> activities of his superiors, the king should

> confiscate his wealth and

> banish him immediately. One's own duty, (even)

> without any good qualities, is

> better than someone else's duty well done; for a man

> who makes his living by

> someone else's duty immediately falls from (his own)

> caste." -- Manusmrti

> 10:95-97.

> "These (castes) should live near mounds, trees, and

> cremation-grounds, in

> mountains and in groves, recognizable and making a

> living by their own innate

> activities. But the dwellings of 'Fierce'

> Untouchables (candala) and

> 'Dog-cookers' (svapaca) should be outside the

> village; they must use discarded bowls,

> and dogs and donkeys should be their wealth. Their

> clothing should be the

> clothes of the dead, and their food should be in

> broken dishes; their ornaments

> should be made of black iron, and they should wander

> constantly. A man who

> carries out his duties should not seek contact with

> them; they should do

> business with one another and marry with those who

> are like them. Their food,

> dependent upon others, should be given to them in a

> broken dish, and they should

> not walk about in villages and cities at night." --

> Manusmrti 10:50-54.

> "(The king) should make a Vaisya engage in trade,

> lend money, farm the land,

> or keep livestock; and (he should make) the Sudra

> the slave of the

> twice-born. A Brahmin should out of mercy support

> both a Ksatriya and a Vaisya if they

> are starved for a livelihood, and have them carry

> out their own innate

> activities. But if a Brahmin, out of greed and a

> sense of power, makes twice-born

> men who have undergone the transformative rituals

> do the work of slaves

> against their will, the king should make him pay a

> fine of six hundred (pennies).

> He may, however, make a Sudra do the work of a

> slave, whether he is bought or

> not bought; for the Self-existent one created him

> to be the slave of the

> Brahmin. Even if he is set free by his master, a

> Sudra is not set free from

> slavery; for since that is innate in him, who can

> take it from him? There are

> seven ways that slaves come into being: taken under

> a flag (of war), becoming a

> slave in order to eat food, born in the house,

> bought, given, inherited from

> ancestors, or enslaved as a punishment. A wife, a

> son, and a slave: these

> three are traditionally said to have no property;

> whatever property they acquire

> belongs to the man to whom they belong. A Brahmin

> may with confidence take

> away any possession from a Sudra; for since nothing

> at all can belong to him

> as his own, his property can be taken away by his

> master. (The king) should

> make the Vaisya and the Sudra carry out their own

> innate activities diligently;

> for if the two of them should slip from their own

> innate activities, they

> would shake this universe into chaos." -- Manusmrti

> 8:410-418.

> "Good looks do not matter to them, nor do they care

> about youth; 'A man!'

> they say, and enjoy sex with him, whether he is

> good-looking or ugly. By

> running after men like whores, by their fickle

> minds, and by their natural lack of

> affection these women are unfaithful to their

> husbands even when they are

> zealously guarded here. Knowing that their very own

> nature is like this, as it

> was born at the creation by the Lord of Creatures

> (Prajapati), a man should

> make the utmost effort to guard them. The bed and

> the seat, jewellery, lust,

> anger, crookedness, a malicious nature, and bad

> conduct are what Manu assigned

> to women. There is no ritual with Vedic verses for

> women; this is a firmly

> established point of law. For women, who have no

> virile strength, and no Vedic

> verses, are falsehood; this is well established."

> -- Manusmrti 9:14-18.

> "A male child is born when the semen of the man is

> greater (than that of the

> woman), and a female child when (the semen) of the

> woman is greater (than

> that of the man); if both are equal, a hermaphrodite

> is born, or a boy and a

> girl; and if (the semen) is weak or scanty, the

> opposite will occur." --

> Manusmrti 3:49.

> "....for killing a goose, a crane, a heron, a

> peacock, a monkey, a falcon,

> or a vulture, he should give a cow. For killing a

> horse, he should give a

> garment; for an elephant, five black bulls; for a

> goat

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/24/2005 1:33:26 PM Central Standard Time, psk_2 writes:

Any ways i humblyrequest you to go through the other three smirites ofwhich

parashara and naradiya smiriti is used for kaliyuga.

i have gone through other smritis and vedic scripture some of which is also said

to be good for this age of kali such as gita, and srimad bhagavatam.

The 12th century saints of my sect were also familiar with them and I have come

to the same conclusion they have. I cannot accept any scripture or even poetry

that implies that varna(caste) should be the social order, and that women are

inferior.

[Guest guest]

Dear Member friends,

Hindu relegion was and is never static. It is not tied

up to one particular book and does not take it for

granted that whatever is stated in scriptures or other

books like 'Manusmriti' has to be blindly followed for

all times to come. We have to live our life according

to ethical values taught to us as Hindus BUT we must

adopt withtimes and our practice must be humanitarian

and wedded to enlightened vision of our spiritual

devlopement.

We need enter into disputes about rituals so far has

actions of any individual does not violate basic

values.

May God bless us all with his everlasting Grace.

 

 

 

________

India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to http://.shaadi.com

[Guest guest]

Dear members

I request members not to discuss further on such topics contribute,

there so many thing to write on lord. This is not a debate.Pls

contribute about stories, mantras, rudraksha, etc be many good thing

where someone can learn from you. From today I will release my second

posting on Madras and Sri Sri K.S.Raoji is going to gives us very

posting on lord Shiva. We have Arjunji great Shiva bhakt you can ask

him about Lingas, Rudraksha.Mantras.

Thanking you,

Regards

Prasanna kumar