Mera Bharat Mahaan !! Can we change destiny?

[Guest guest]

, Aditya Mukherjee <adimuk> wrote:

> Dear all

>

> I have been reading Ramakrishna kathamrita these days

 

so looks like aditya agrees with me.

 

I am not saying that we should not do charity to others...i just

thought aloud if we are really helping others and sometimes not helping

others....are we not just tools in the hands of the system ?

 

So we should not be proud for helping someone...and not guilty for

not helping someone.

 

another friend quoted a question ,"Q) Why some people who are really

very good suffer. If they were sinners in the previous birth how they

are so nice in the present birth"

 

If someone was a sinner in the last birth does not mean, he will be

sinner this time. If a sinner has a strong guilt for his fault then he

will surely be opposite in nature in next birth.

 

For example, a woman cheated her hubby in a birth...but at the

time of death she felt guilty for cheating...she will be born as a

real "Pativrata" in her next birth...and will do anything for her

husband's happiness....but her last birth's sins will not leave

her...and she will suffer !!! and the people will say-Look God is not

just...He is giving troubles to a pious and Pativrata Nari.

 

That is why I wrote that seeing a poor or a person in distress we

should not feel any unnecessary pity on him.....our pity should be only

for helpless animals...or people with no positive spiritual

development...like Paramhansa did for vivekananda as Adi wrote.

 

We see a begger and give him a coin...and get blessings, perhaps if

we could see his sins of last birth, instead of giving him a coin, we

may curse him....that's why Mother nature hides our memories of last

birth.

 

By giving alms to a person, we do not help him in his spiritual

progress.

 

The only sin in the universe is..barring someone in spiritual

progress and the only virtue is helping someone in spiritual

progess...rest all charities, all helpings, all donations is a drama of

the EGO.

 

love

 

baba

[Guest guest]

Navaratri Greetings to all !

 

Beirut ka baba wrote :

 

By giving alms to a person, we do not help him in his spiritual

progress.

 

How can a hungry person pray on an empty stomach?

Even Gautama Buddha realized he needed Food to keep his body and soul

together.

 

We should not confuse spirirtuality with thinking about God while

Giving Alms to a person . Real spirituality is just to give Alms to

the person.

 

 

Beirut ka baba wrote :

 

The only sin in the universe is..barring someone in spiritual

progress and the only virtue is helping someone in spiritual

progess...rest all charities, all helpings, all donations is a drama

of the EGO.

 

Even to think We are the Savior of the world is an exercise in Ego

building.

 

and coming to the Philosophy of the Ramakrishna Mission ...

 

Look at the emblem of the Mission

 

"The wavy waters in the picture are symbolic of Karma; the lotus, of

Bhakti; and the rising-sun, of Jnana. The encircling serpent is

indicative of Yoga and the awakened Kundalini Shakti, while the swan

in

the picture stands for Paramatman (Supreme Self). Therefore, the idea

of the picture is that by the union of Karma, Jnana, Bhakti and Yoga,

the vision of Paramatman is obtained."

 

Don't you think the group page of this group also says pretty much

the same thing?The four wheels of the Yoga chariot are Bhakti, Karma,

Jnana and Raja yoga.

 

Swami Vivekananda said

 

"Look upon every man, woman, and everyone as God. You cannot help

anyone, you can only serve: Serve the children of the Lord; serve the

Lord Himself, if you have the privilege. If the Lord grants that you

can help any one of His children, blessed you are; do not think too

much of yourselves. Blessed you are that that privilege was given to

you when others had it not. Do it only as worship. I should see God

in the poor, and it is for my salvation that I go and worship them.

The poor and the miserable are for our salvation, so that we may

serve the Lord, coming in the shape of the diseased, coming in the

shape of lunatic, the leper, and the sinner!"

 

Swami Vivekananda grasped the hidden meaning of his Master

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's words of 'Shiva Jnane Jiva Seva'(worship

of humanity is realizing shiva)

 

And Swamiji would often say "You are fortunate that the poor accepted

alms from you. Bow down to him in reverence as if you are serving

God."

 

Poor the GOD - DARIDRA NARAYANA ! What a heroic concept. We would all

rather bow down before a famous politician or a popular film star or

rock star but bow down to the poor? No, never .

 

Thank you Uma for waking us up and leading the discussion in the

right direction.

 

Yes, we are proud of Our Bharat Varsha for giving the world such

great scripturual texts like the Vedas, upanishads, Tantras and the

Bhagvat Gita. How about putting that all into practice as Uma has

suggestedindirectly by posing that question. .

 

Hari Aum!

[Guest guest]

dear friend

 

Praying for the sake of poor people is not the true path. The Lord is more kind

than you towards those poor people because all are His children only. You are

only a brother of these poor people and He is the father of all of you. The love

of Father is far greater than the love of a brother. When you pray the God to

show kindness on your brothers is it not insulting your Father? The Father has

given punishment to your brothers for their sins. If you just help them that is

also interference in the administration of the divine Father.

 

The best way is to help them in all the ways practically either before or after

preaching them the divine knowledge and make them become devotees of the divine

Father. Devotion will purify the hearts and make them eligible to receive the

grace from God. He can only solve their problems permanently. Your help is only

temporary. Therefore, help the poor practically and make them become devotees.

The practical social service mixed with spiritual mission will please the Lord.

The spiritual preaching will change the hearts and serves the purpose of the

punishment. Punishment is only for the change and not for any revenge.

 

Mostly people love Lord for their desires to be fulfilled. If something goes

wrong or if things are out of control then we rush to lord and start prayers

etc. This devotion is like a prostitute loving her customer. If one really

loves Lord without any desire, then only Lord will be pleased. When a beggar

approaches us, we generally offer him whatever is least useful to us. But, when

a relative comes to our house, we provide him with good food, facilities and

even ask him to stay for some more time. Why is the difference in our approach?

Beggar comes to us for what we give. He is not having any love to us. Whereas a

relative has not come for our food and facilities, he has come to see us. This

shows the love.

 

So, our approach to Lord should be with love and affection as relative but not

like beggar, who approaches us only for satisfying the desires. We should not

worship lord only to satisfy our desire. Prayers by words, meditation by mind

and intelligence in spiritual discussions form a preliminary level of worship.

The devotee should search for a Satguru or Lord in human form (like Jesus,

Krishna and Prophet Mohammed) to learn the divine knowledge. After gaining the

divine knowledge from the Lord in human form, at His directive only he should

participate in His service in the mission.

 

His mission is to uplift the human beings by preaching the divine knowledge.

Service consists of donating money and physically participating in His mission

of divine knowledge propagation. Such real service is the only proof of our real

love towards Lord.

 

We are serving our family by spending hard earned money for them and also

serving physically. Where as when we come to Lord, we express our love by

prayers, meditation and spiritual discussions only, which are given freely by

Lord to everybody.

 

Hence God is not even comparable to family members but in prayers we project Him

on top. Today, in the world everybody agrees that the real power is the money

only. Money is the fruit of work and Bhagavatgita calls sacrifice of money

“Karma Phala Tyaga”. In Bhagavatgita it is said “Dhyanat Karma Phala Tyagah”

which means that devotion is greater than Knowledge and sacrifice of the fruit

of the work (money) is greater than the devotion. Knowledge consists of

intelligence and words. Devotion consists of mind and words. Sacrifice

consists of heart and love. The proof of the love is the practical service,

which is the practical sacrifice of work or money. For the propagation of the

divine knowledge and devotion the money is needed to publish the gospel in the

form of books. When you sacrifice your money for the divine work your treasure

in the heaven is built up. This means that God will help you after your death

and you will enter the kingdom of God.

 

You are giving your earnings to your family only and so your real love is on

your family only. There is no need of any further argument on this point

because it is very clear proof. This is the real fire test for your love. You

are sacrificing valueless words and valueless mind in leisure, which is

valueless time. This cannot prove the real value of God. You must give real

value to God. You are finishing your prayers and meditation on God as soon as

the time to go to job is nearing. Similarly when some work for the family is

approaching, you are immediately leaving the presence of God. Therefore you are

not giving any value to God for all practical purpose. But you are telling

lies in your prayers that God is everything for you. The money is the final

test and it can be the only test also since all the family is associated with

you for money only and the family serves you in your old age for your money

only. If the money is sacrificed to God your real color of love can

be seen.

 

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

 

surya

 

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

roopika_devi <no_reply> wrote:

Navaratri Greetings to all !

 

 

We should not confuse spirirtuality with thinking about God while

Giving Alms to a person . Real spirituality is just to give Alms to

the person.

[Guest guest]

Surya,

 

The lord can be approached in any number of ways- Have you not heard

of the "Dasya bhava" - serving the Lord?

 

How can the Lord be served?

 

Jana Seva Janardana Seva; Nara Seva Narayana Seva.

 

Can you teach 'spirituality' to a starving man? How can his mind

absorb anything when his stomach is empty ? First offer him Food then

feed him with spiritual knowledge.

 

Please read the famous Annapurnashtakam by Adi shankara

Bhagvadapada.

 

Here is a stanza

 

annapürïe sadápürne

sañkarapránavallabhe

jnánavairágyasiddyartham

bhikhám dehi ca párvati

 

Oh! Parvati! Annapurna! always full, the dear consort of Sankara,

grant us alms for the sake of securing knowledge and detachment.

 

Devi grants her devotees both bhukti ( material enjoyment) and mukti

liberation).

 

I was just parodying on a famous ZEN statement when I wrote

 

We should not confuse spirirtuality with thinking about God while

Giving Alms to a person . Real spirituality is just to give Alms to

the person.

 

Hari Aum! !

[Guest guest]

dear friend

 

the Service which Swamiji was always preaching about indicates the 'Dasya" only.

This service as preached by Krishna is 'Karma phala tyaga' (donating money) and

'karma sanyasa' (physically participating in His mission).

 

You are telling in 'bhava' i.e., in the imagination or in mind but Lord is

stressing the practicing of it.

 

Devotion means love on Lord. Do you think that the love associated with all the

worldly relations is also devotion? Definitely, it is not devotion. Also every

human being is not Lord. If you love all the human beings in the world, that is

also not devotion. Likewise if you serve all the human beings that is not

service to Lord. A particular human being like Rama, Krishna are only Lord and

the service to that Human form of Lord is only service to Lord.

 

If you add the word divine with worldly seva, it does not become divine. It is

totally undivine.

 

You are talking about Mukti which is liberation. Liberation itself means

breaking of all the worldly bonds.

 

If you see any real devotees life history, you will come to know the truth. Do

not be under any illusion. Anyway truth will always be harsh.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

 

surya

 

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

roopika_devi <no_reply> wrote:

 

"Dasya bhava" - serving the Lord?

[Guest guest]

What a fascinating discusion. I have always wondered why charity is not a common

and important part of Hindu spiritual practice, and the attitudes presented in

this dialogue certainly sheds some light for me. The role of charity, in kind or

service,is the cornerstone of the practice in religions other than Hindusim.

 

One opinion expressed here appears to be that no one can change people's karma

so whats the point of giving. Another point presented here is that charity is a

sign of one's ego, representing a ego desire to feel "important". I can see how

this ego concept has been cleverly used to cop out of assisting fellow human

beings.

 

Actually its neither. There are two sides to any relationship. A giver and a

receiver. Each plays that role for his/her personal evolution, NOT for the

benifit of the other. In the process of the two roles coming together, one may

be of benifit to the other, if an arrangement was made before incarnating. A

giver may need to learn compassion, sharing, release attachment to his/her ego's

possessive "memy" nature. This is a first step to being able to see the

thread that runs through all souls, before one can experience the divine (divya)

unity of all, That Thou Art, Christ/ Krishna/Shiva/Shakti/Energy consciousness

in every living object around us.

 

A receiver may need to learn humility, dissolve his arrogance, his sense of

being in charge, in control. These are important first steps in learning the

unity of all of life in the Divine (Divya). If the two souls have decided before

incarnating to assist each other, then both are assisting the other by being

there to give and receive.

 

So no one is really doing anyone any favors here. Its a win-win situation, or in

different words, it is for the "greatest good of all concerned".

 

Giving is part of daily practice in most faiths as where they are asked to tithe

earnings to some institution. In these religions, followers are told what to do.

In Sanatan Dharm, we are given the laws of nature, and left alone to choose as

per wish, and bear the fruits as per our choice. Rather democratic!

 

The benifit from charity comes according to the intention behind the giving.

Ammachi has given huge sums of money to the disaster victims of both Tsunami and

Katrina. This is her way of giving back what belongs to the universe anyway.

Will it help the victims? Not unless it is their karma to learn whatever they

needed to learn, and accept the giving with the right intention.

 

It is also very interesting how people are brainwashed into thinking that no one

other than his/her Guru should be the only one served, with mind and money!!!

There are plenty of cases all over the world in all faiths. But then that may be

their karma and who are we to complain! They may the very ones who conveniently

excused themselves from giving others in previous lives!

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

, prakki surya <dattapr2000> wrote:

>

> dear friend

>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank You, Uma.

 

I resonate with your views . It is really heart warming to read such

compassion filled posts.

 

In all the hindu scriptures from the srimad Bhagwat gita to the

Upanishads , there is scriptural recommendation for "daya"

and "dana".

 

The root verb is -*Da* which means to Give

 

DAYA - Compassion and Dana --- giving or charity .

 

Take for instance

 

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

 

That very thing is repeated even today by the heavenly voice, in the

form of thunder, as "Da,Da,Da," which means: "Control

yourselves (Damayata),Give (Datta)," and "Have compassion

(Dayadhvam)." Therefore one should learn these three: self-control,

giving and mercy.

 

and in the Srimad Bhagawad Gita,

 

The righteous who eat the remnants of the Yajna are freed from all

sins, but the impious who cook food only for themselves (without

sharing with others in charity) verily eat sin. (3.13)

 

and Lord Krishna further goes on to Elaborate the further nuances of

this great Karma YOga

 

yad asnani yaj juhosi dadasi yat, yat tapasyasi kaunteya tat

kurusva madarpanam

 

Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer in sacrifice

Whatever charity you give, whatever austerity you practice, do it as

an offering to Me (Gita:9.27)

 

Precisely, you perform your prescribed duties in life (swadharma) and

dedicate the fruits of all your actions to the Lord.

 

Among hindus, 'Annadanam' or donating 'food' is considered to be

Mahadanam . Even the poorest of the poor if they go and line up and

seat themseves in front of the temples or in places of pilgrimages

will never go to bed hungry. Many hindus believe rightly or wrongly

that by feeding the poor , one can wash off one's sins ! Of course,

the Rich can use that as a tax write off also!! Smile ....

 

On another note, i do not know how to interpret these words in Prakki

Surya's post .....

 

"Also every human being is not Lord. If you love all the human beings

in the world, that is also not devotion. Likewise if you serve all

the human beings that is not service to Lord. A particular human

being like Rama, Krishna are only Lord and the service to that Human

form of Lord is only service to Lord."

 

I am really 'amused' .... This is news to me .

 

I thought there is 'divinity' in every human being - as Swami

Vivekananda says ''all beings are potentially Divine' ... How can you

Love LORD without loving your fellow human beings ? There is divine

essence in all of us - Devamsham, it is called . The Hindu

Greeting 'Namaste' means exactky this - 'the Divine in me bows to the

divine in You.'

 

I Totally agree with Uma when she says "I can see how

this ego concept has been cleverly used to cop out of assisting

fellow human beings."

 

Uma makes an interesting reference to 'humility' . And this is

exactly the point.

 

My Sanskrit teacher used to be very fond of reciting this verse

everyday in the class

 

Vidya Dadati Vinayam

 

Vidyat Yati Patratam

 

Patravad Dhanam Apnoti

 

Dhanad Dharma thata Sukham

 

Simple translation

 

Learning (education) teaches us to be 'humble' or modest

 

By being humble, one earns 'respect from others

 

And a respected person earns Wealth ( all kinds of wealth , material

as well as spiritual)

 

and when you have wealth, you can Share all of it with others ! (

both spiritual and material)

 

The point i am trying to make Is God is not someone sitting on top of

Mount Kailash or some celestial being in the skies, God is present

in the poorest of the poor, in the leper, in a child , in

everyone ...

 

And Guess what Surya ? The easiest thing is to give Bread but the

hard thing is to share Love, Kindness , Compassion and show Mercy.

 

and Suya interpreted Mukti as freedom from worldly bonds . True

somewhat. But that does not mean freedom from performing one's wordly

duties - Perform your duties in the true spirit of Karma YOGA.

 

The muslims are now observing Ramadhan . In Islam, every devout

muslim is asked to donate to the poor 'food' before he breaks his/her

fast for the day. and really speaking Can *Raham* be seperated from

*Rahim*? That is Raham (true compassion) and Rahim is one of the

mames of Allah!

 

On this day of Durga Puja, join me in saluting the Divine mother

thus ...

 

Yaa Devi Sarva Bhuteshu *DAYA* rupena sanstitha, namastasyaii,

namstasyaii , aum namo namosthuthe!

 

To the devi who resides in all beings as *compassion*, i bow to

thee , i bow to the thee ! Salutations!

 

and finally the Bible says

 

As you Give , So shall you Receive

 

 

AUM Dum DURGAYAII MAMAHA!

[Guest guest]

Q) Oh Swami! I have one question, why not we do duties to our

children?

 

At the same time we shall have all our devotion to the Lord

only.

 

 

 

Swami: Your suggestion is quite sounding very well to the ears,

But you will find the reality only when you analyse the concept.

One thing we should remember, we should not bring down the sky To our level

since we are standing on the ground and since We are unable to fly to the height

of the sky, let us agree the truth.

 

It is true that the sky is the goal and it is true that we are on the

ground.This will make us to start our journey, one day or the other you will

reach sky.

 

You have to be in the constant effort, God will give you many human rebirths

Till you reach the goal, but one condition, you should not stop at any stage.

When you are doing the duty it is love expressed in action, it is proven love.

It is far greater than the love through words and through mind and therefore You

love is ninety nine percent on your children and one percent on Lord.

 

The Lord is not at all equal even to your children and just you have thrown One

paisa on the face of the Lord treating Him as a beggar for your love. At the

same time you are posing that all your love is on the Lord. It is just the

reverse in practice and everything is only the mind and words. The proven love

consists of sacrifice of five items to the Lord. The first three items are by

the expression of love through words, mind, and brain. Through words people sing

devotional songs and the emotional devotion flows

 

Through the mind, through the brain scholars discuss the nature of the Lord.

These three constitute the theoretical phase, which has a value of one paisa

only.It is just like sacrificing drinking water supplied by the municipality

freely. Similarly, these three are already supplied to you by the Lord freely

without any Effort or strain by you, Indians are very famous in sacrificing

these three items.

 

The fantastic fun is that people sacrifice these three items to the Lord and Ask

some practical fruit for the sacrifice of these three theoretical items! The

other two items are practical and their value is ninety-nine paise.

 

Those two items are sacrifice of work and sacrifice of fruit of work

 

In this sacrifice of these two items only lies the entire real sacrifice.

 

This alone is the proven love, don’t argue that this is impossible for you.

 

You are doing the sacrifice of these two items sincerely to your children.

 

Therefore you are having real proven love on your children only.

 

The sacrifice of the first three items is not done in the case of your children.

 

That means the sacrifice of these first three items is false dramatic love.

 

The word duty, which you just uttered, constitutes the last two items only,

which are the sacrifice of work and sacrifice of fruit of work.

Therefore what is the meaning of your statement that resulted finally?

 

You will sacrifice the false love to the Lord and the real love to your

children.

You designate the false love as the real whole love, which is dedication of

mind.

Now you say that you have dedicated your entire mind to the Lord only!

 

Fantastic! And you say that you are simply doing duty to your children!Which is

nothing but the real love! How clever you are! You can fool Any human being in

this world but not the Lord, who is omniscient.

 

 

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

 

surya

 

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

roopika_devi <no_reply> wrote:

and Surya interpreted Mukti as freedom from worldly bonds . True somewhat. But

that does not mean freedom from performing one's wordly duties - Perform your

duties in the true spirit of Karma YOGA.

 

 

SURYA

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

 

 

[Guest guest]

, roopika_devi <no_reply> wrote:

 

> How can a hungry person pray on an empty stomach?

 

Who are we to decide who should pray empty stomach and who full

stomach ??

 

> Even to think We are the Savior of the world is an exercise in Ego

> building.

>

Who is the savior of the world ??? Is it a Taunt ?

 

-------------------------

 

So the story goes like this....once Shiva and parvati were just

strolling...looking at the people.. enjoying and suffering. Then

Parvati saw a young farmer who was blind....making his way with

difficulty. She was very upset on this and told shiva ,"

Maharaj...this is not justice. See this young man he is so

handsome...and innocent looking and you have not given him sight."

 

Shiva," Parvati I am not selectively giving anybody anything...He

deserves this hence he is blind"

 

Parvati," How do you know he deserves this....as he has no sight how

has he misused it? I am not convinced hence I am using my powers and

giving him eye-sight"

 

Shiva," Ok do this and see for yourself"

 

Parvati went near the man and with her palms sent energy to the eyes

of the young farmer and suddenly he started seeing things....he

danced with joy and asked Parvati," Who are you...and who is this

ascetic with you?"

 

Parvati said," I am Uma and this is my husband Shiva" The farmer

didnt know anything about shiva and uma hence he surprisingly told

parvati," You are so beautiful...why are you wasting your time with

this ascetic...he has nothing for you...he does not even have good

clothes for himself...what he will give to you?

 

Now be a nice woman...you know I have 100 acres of fertile

land...leave this begger and come marry me. I will give you all what

you need.

 

Parvati was very angry and said," You were right Shiva...he deserves

to be blind" and saying this she took back the eye-sight from him and

both continued their journey towards Kailash.

 

Bolo Swami Ghasitanandjiki Jai

[Guest guest]

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

>

>

The gist of my post has been mis-interpreted by UMA... I nowhere

wrote what you are mentioning....if you read my post number 7250 i

have clearly written

---------------------------

I am not saying that we should not do charity to others...i just

thought aloud if we are really helping others and sometimes not

helping

others....are we not just tools in the hands of the system ?

 

So we should not be proud for helping someone...and not guilty for

not helping someone.

-------------------------

 

What I wished to convey was that doing charity for the sake of

inflating ego is useless...if charity helps in spiritual progress of

either party...it becomes a sadhna..

 

I am rather trying to think out of Karma theory...where we become

an alive Yantra of the system...and do whatever it wants from us.

 

correct me if i am wrong

 

with love

[Guest guest]

You are right that all humans are not Lord.

 

However all humans have the potentiality, have the divine spark of

the Lord. It is obvious that the method of serving humans is

different from serving the Lord. Love and compassion is a method of

service, and can be expressed in many ways.

 

No matter what, serving is only for the benifit of the server,

helping in his/hers spiritual progress according to their intention.

It is a by-product if it helps another in the process.

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

, prakki surya <dattapr2000>

wrote:

>

> dear friend

>. Also every human being is not Lord. If you love all the human

beings in the world, that is also not devotion. Likewise if you serve

all the human beings that is not service to Lord. A particular human

being like Rama, Krishna are only Lord and the service to that Human

form of Lord is only service to Lord.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lord is substratum of the whole creation and hence forms base. Without Him

creation cannot sustain. Lord created the universe for entertainment. He has

given free will to all the human beings to do whatever they like. But, the

results will follow the deeds. So, He is indirectly controlling, that is to say

that enjoyment for good deeds and misery for bad deeds. Misery is to bring

realisation only and not to repeat the same bad deed. Otherwise, He is not

responsible for one's deeds.

 

 

 

Creation is in Lord but Lord is not the creation. But such a Lord can enter

creation at the request of devotees who wants Him only and His service. To give

four fortunes to His devotees (to talk, to touch, co-living and to serve), He

comes down.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

Tatwamasi <tatwamasi wrote:

You are right that all humans are not Lord.

 

However all humans have the potentiality, have the divine spark of

the Lord. It is obvious that the method of serving humans is

different from serving the Lord. Love and compassion is a method of

service, and can be expressed in many ways.

 

No matter what, serving is only for the benifit of the server,

helping in his/hers spiritual progress according to their intention.

It is a by-product if it helps another in the process.

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

Uma

 

 

SURYA

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Spirituality is the domain where you are trying to establish a real bond with

the Lord.

 

Charity etc are good deeds for which you may go to heven. After enjoying the

fruits, you have to come back. 'Kshene pune martya loke ...'. So that is also

temporary. Same charity done to terrorist will lead to a sin which means

purchasing a sin.

 

 

When a person dies immediately his sons write letters to others that their

father has gone to heaven. Actually after death, the soul will be enquired in

the ‘Pretaloka’ for ten days and then only he will be sent to hell for his bad

deeds and to heaven for the good deeds and to ‘Pitruloka’ for mixed deeds. If

the soul has straightly gone to heaven, why his sons are donating cow (Godana),

which is meant for crossing the Vaitarini River, which is before the hell? In

fact the soul is not enjoying the results of the previous deeds.

 

 

 

When the soul leaves this body, it goes to hell and is washed severely like a

cloth. The entire dirt goes but a little dirt remains in the soul, which is

called as Karma Sesha. The Karma Sesha means again all the qualities of the soul

with least intensity. When the soul comes back to this world these qualities are

again grown in this atmosphere of earth. The soul again goes to hell for severe

wash. Like this the cycle repeats. When the soul comes to this earth from the

hell, it does works according to the Karma Sesha only i.e., the previous

qualities. In that sense the Karma Sesha is responsible for all the works on

this earth. These works again intensify the Karma Sesha. Buddhi (Karma Sesha)

produces Karma (action) and Karma intensifies the Buddhi. When the soul comes

here there is no result to be enjoyed in this world.

 

 

 

A thief was severely beaten in the police station and was left. When the thief

comes out of the police station his quality to steal is very very weak. But

within a short time due to the association of the other thieves in the world he

becomes the original thief and is again beaten in the police station. Therefore

when the thief comes out of the police station there is no punishment that

remains with him. Similarly when the soul is born there is no punishment that

remains with the soul. The only thing that remains with the soul is the Karma

Sesha, which is a very weak quality to steal. This Karma Sesha is called

Sanchita and is also called as the writing of Brahma on the forehead. This

guides the future action of the soul in this world.

 

 

 

The birth of the soul is according to the nature of this Karma Sesha only,

which is called Prarabdha. The actions in this world produce strength to the

Karma Sesha and such strength is called Aagami. All this is related to the souls

and the world, which is based on the ignorance and the blind attraction of the

family bonds. The Lord has nothing to do with this. The work of the Lord is

completely different. The Lord enters this world to uplift the human beings.

Such divine work of the Lord is to be recognized and your participation in such

work will be related to the Lord.

 

 

 

Such participation will give you the Brahma Loka in a completely different

divine path called Archiraadi Maarga as told in Gita. For such participation you

must first recognize the birth of the Lord in human form. If you do not

recognize the Lord in the human form there is no question of participation in

His work. Gita says that first the divine birth of the Lord must be recognized

and then the divine work for participation (Janma Karmachame Divyam). Except

this type of divine work the Lord has no connection with the other deeds of

souls as said in Gita (Na Kartrutvam Na Karmaani Lokasya). Thus one should not

mix the works of the souls and the work of the Lord.

 

 

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

 

surya

 

 

 

 

 

Baba ji <beirut_ka_baba wrote:

inflating ego is useless...if charity helps in spiritual progress of

either party...it becomes a sadhna..

 

 

SURYA

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

>

> I have always wondered why charity is not a common and important part of Hindu

spiritual practice, and the attitudes presented in this dialogue certainly sheds

some light for me. The role of charity, in kind or service,is the cornerstone of

the practice in religions other than Hindusim.

------

Why Hindus do not give charity:

 

India has 17.03% of the population of the world, but it has only

2.45% of the world area as the geographical resource.

 

India is a truly poor country. Per-capita GNI in an average country

is $8,540. For USA it is $39,710. In Morocco, an African country it

is $4,100. In India, it is only $3,100.

 

In India 81% of the population lives with less than $2/day. Globally

it is only 53%, in Morocco the number is 14%.

 

hence,whatever charity possible by the Hindu people has been done, but it cannot

equate with the money Christian nations have , and hence always seems less.

--------------------------

Though in Hindus, there is not an organised structure or lack of organisation or

lack of vision on part of the hindu people.

 

Like in our colony Ganeshutsav 41,000 rupees collected and 40000 spent. Where

spent? Orchestra, lighting, decoration. but no money went to any charity or

helping any needy or donating books to poor people. though people donated the

money on hindu people as charity to celebrate ganeshutsav, the money got was

wasted on 2-minute leisure if dance and music shows.

 

Such money if utilised properly or atleset 20% of it could be good enough

charity money, but the lack of the organisers in using it properly is lacking.

 

-

devishakti_india

[Guest guest]

as of now, all the indian spiritual centres are being run on foreign funds only.

whereas foreign churches are funded by foreigners only and they are funding

indian spiritual centres also.

 

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

surya

www.universal-spirituality.org

 

 

 

devishakti_india <devishaktiindia wrote:

, "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

....................

 

Why Hindus do not give charity:

 

India has 17.03% of the population of the world, but it has only

2.45% of the world area as the geographical resource.

[Guest guest]

Hello Baba

 

I was simply summarizing all the opinions, not just speaking to you

alone. No effort is useless as far as I am concerned. All move us

forward, either by benifitting from it directly or by learning not to

do it again! (untill we learn)

 

My point is that the charity benifits ourselves according to one's

intention, either for the goal of expressing compassion, empathy,

identifying with others as part of ONE, or for doing favors to

another. Though still a desire of the ego, the need for a

goal/sankalpa is important in sadhna until the last stages when even

that desire is eliminated. Like other tools of spiritual growth, it

is another tool for growth and evolution, and in this case it has the

potentiality to serve another person both materially and spiritually.

 

 

> I am rather trying to think out of Karma theory...where we become

> an alive Yantra of the system...and do whatever it wants from us.

 

 

Yes, we certainly are tools in the hands of the Intelligence, the

invisible hand, guiding us to do what we are ready to do. We find

ourselves discussing the topic of Free will vs destiny again and

again, probably because we are not clear, probably our egos doesn't

want to let go the last vestiges of control. I don't know. Most of

the Gurus I have come across, believe that there is no free will,

what we think is our "choice" is also something that occurs

according to what we are ready to do. I continue to believe that

every moment we are making choices, consciously or subconsciously.

 

Once when I was talking to one of my Gurus, he was telling me some

actions to take for my health. I, who feels rather strongly

about "free-will" and have had arguements with Guruji regarding this,

got a bit upset and said "If its all destiny, then why should I take

the trouble to do any of this? What will be will be!" He replied,"

Yes, thats exactly true. You will be compelled to do what you need to

do, no more no less!!"

 

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

 

 

 

, "Baba ji" <beirut_ka_baba>

wrote:

>

> , "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

> >

>

>

> What I wished to convey was that doing charity for the sake of

> inflating ego is useless...if charity helps in spiritual progress

of

> either party...it becomes a sadhna..

>

>

[Guest guest]

Of course you are right, the needs are so high, that whatever little

IS being shared, seems like a drop in the bucket.

 

At the same time, charity is giving 10 cents if you have a dollar, or

$10,000 if you have a million dollars or whatever. Charity is a state

of mind, which wants to share what one has with someone who doesn't.

It is a mindset. It is not a question of comparison of who has more

or less. All other religious groups are required to contribute in

proportion to their ability.

 

Crores of Rupees are being collected every year for a variety of

celebrations. Remember the ridiculous weddings we hear of? The

poverty stats you quote doesn't prevent people from collecting that.

And then if you take the collections made at gun point, these are

huge numbers. A pathetically tiny portion goes to assist others. It

is not the absolute ammount, it is the proportion, that I am speaking

of.

 

_/\_ Tat twam asi

 

Uma

 

, "devishakti_india"

<devishaktiindia@g...> wrote:

>

> , "Tatwamasi" <tatwamasi> wrote:

> >

> > I have always wondered why charity is not a common and important

part of Hindu spiritual practice, and the attitudes presented in this

dialogue certainly sheds some light for me. The role of charity, in

kind or service,is the cornerstone of the practice in religions other

than Hindusim.

> --

----

> Why Hindus do not give charity:

>

> India has 17.03% of the population of the world, but it has only

> 2.45% of the world area as the geographical resource.

>

[Guest guest]

Lord krishna only said in gita that who worship

specific gods will go to the specific god loka

only.They get either of the four muktis as

"sarupya,samipya,sayujya,saloka".If you worship lord

krishna you are to go to the "vishnuloka"or nearer

lokas like 'goloka" which is sheer pleasure zone.Thats

why lord vishnu is shown in sleeping position keeping

one hand under head.The tridents Brahma,Vishnu and

shiva are said to be realised had power to release

"individual soul " to liberation provided the devotee

ask for that.Other cataogory gods dont have that much

of powers and therefore if some problem comes they go

these supreme tridents.Doing sadhana only for going

into these lokas is waste of time and energy and also

can not be said as spiritual one.Thats the bhakti with

desires(sakam Bhakti).After period of time the

resident has to come down to earth and do further

progress.

 

If somebody enters into these top lokas they will find

numbers of krishnas,vishnus,shivas,brahmas etc in that

loka.They have all the characteristics of the specific

gods.Those devotees who have got sarupya mukti have

got diluted in the specific gods.As per supremos order

one of them is incharge place.When time comes one of

these pure souls comes down to earth level and take

avatara(incarnation),serve mankind and get liberated.

 

Now Who will bother to go into these lokas even if

they are more pleasent and having more powers than

human form,when you have sadgurus available on

earth.Ultimately everysoul has to be liberated now or

after.

 

These tridents also go off when there is night of

parabrahman.

 

You should not be thinking of lord but you should be

remembering him all the time of day and night,only

when you will be able to get tuned with the loka when

your time comes to leave the body and those respective

loka servents will lead you.

 

Its not thinking at all.

 

"Smaran" is different from "Vichar"

Thinking is small time process and needs to be done.

Rememberence is autorepeatitative, and automatically

generated.

 

 

--- prakki surya <dattapr2000 wrote:

 

> when you are thinking about Lord and His divine