Guest guest Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 Again, we have the episode of Sugriva marrying his own brother's wife, in the very age when Laksmana established the ideal of worshipping Sita, his brother's wife. Vibhisana too committed the same offence. He married his brother Ravana's wife. There is no one in history who appears to have been more deluded than Bharata. The cruel words he used for his own mother, would hardly be expected even from a worldly man, let alone a Saint - hanyamahamimam papam kaikeyim dustacarinim (Valmiki Ramayana) "O murderess of your husband, cruel woman, you are a demoness. Had 1 not feared that Lord Rama would abandon me, I would have killed you without hesitation. " There are similar instances of Saints being deluded during the descension of Lord Krsna. The gopis, the maidens of Braja, were supreme among all Saints. Even Brahma, Visnu and Siva bow to them - Sasthivarsasahasrani maya taptam tapah pura nandagopabrajastrinam padarenupalabdhaye tathapi na maya praptastasam vai padarenavah (Bhagavatam) These very gopis married, bore children, and led common household lives. The Saint Arjuna who received the wisdom of the Gita, is stated to have been infatuated by a woman of Nagaloka. The history of the Pandavas is quite shocking. The five brothers had five fathers. Arjuna was born of India, Bhima of Vayu, Nakula and Sahadeva from the Asvinikumaras, and Yudhisthira of Dharmaraja. Again, all these brothers accepted one woman, Draupadi and married her. The mighty Bhima also married a demoness named Hi9amba, and a son named Ghatotkaca resulted from this marriage. The history of Arjuna is most puzzling of all. When both he and his cousin Duryodhana approached Lord Krsna for help before the war of Mahabharata, Lord Krsna gave Arjuna the choice of either having His entire army, or having Krsna Himself on his side, but weaponless. Arjuna without hesitation, accepted Lord Krsna a; whilst Duryodhana was happy to have His army. Why did Arjuna reject the other offer of Lord Krsna entire Obviously, he was aware of Lord Krsna true identity. But what happened to this awareness once the armies were up for war? Why was he overcome by ignorance when saw his elders, relations and friends standing in the opposite camp, and refused to fight them? He knew they would on the opposite side, right from the time he went to Lord Krsna for help. To free him of his ignorance, Lord Krsna enlightened him through the words of wisdom contained in the Gita. It is certainly a wonder that before all these events took place, Arjuna had been referred to as a Saint in his previous life! All these examples from history prove the fact that all the Saints behaved like worldly people, although they were in fact eternally liberated and beyond the realm of Maya. An ordinary man can never understand how these Saints, who were beyond Maya, performed actions of Maya or ignorance. We can accept the fact that Saints can perform righteous actions, but we can never understand the fact that they can also perform unrighteous ones. In truth, a Saint is one who does nothing, i.e. neither righteous actions nor unrighteous actions. If he is able to do any work even for a second, then he cannot be a Saint. The Gita clearly states yastvatmaratireva syadatmatrptasca manavah atmanyeva ca samtustastasya karyam na vidyate (Gita) "One who becomes a Saint ceases to work" Just as a seed is destroyed with the growth of the sprout, and flowers wither with the ripening of fruits, once a person becomes a Saint, all his actions come to an end. The scriptures are useful only to the extent that they bring about union with God. Once that union is attained by the individual soul, the Vedas and scriptures can be dispensed with. From this it is evident why a Saint is unable to perform any action. Having attained the final goal of all actions, the need for action itself ceases. The second reason is that both good and bad actions are binding, hence why will the individual who has attained eternal gratification, perform any action again? The third reason is that God is the governor of Maya. Maya governs the soul, the soul governs the intellect, the intellect governs the mind, the mind governs the sense objects, and the sense objects govern the sense organs. When an individual soul realizes God, then Maya, which lies between the two, the individual and God, is banished forever and God becomes the direct governor of the soul. Henceforth, whatever action that soul is seen to perform, is a direct result of Divine inspiration. Every individual soul performs actions only with the selfish motive of attaining perfect happiness. Once that is attained, there is nothing that needs to be done. Whatever is done by the Saint thereafter, is Divinely inspired, and can hence be venerated as an action of God. The reason why God directs the Saint to perform righteous or unrighteous actions is something which He Himself knows. The Saint is in no way responsible. For example, if a car is involved in an accident, the car is not blamed because the car cannot move by itself. It is the driver that is to be blamed and punished. In the same way, until the individual soul surrenders to God, he himself is the doer of every action. But once he surrenders completely, he no longer is the doer. In truth, surrender itself means the state of doing nothing. The Saint then becomes more or less like the inanimate motor-car ananyas cintayanto mam ye janah paryupasate tesam nityabhiyuktanam yogaksemam vahamyaham (Gita) God becomes the direct governor of the Saint and directs his every action. The Saint lies in His lap, free of all fears, and totally engrossed in Divine bliss. Fourthly, every action is prompted by desire. Once a person attains Sainthood, he becomes totally gratified, hence desire naturally comes to an end. There is no question of performing any action thereafter. There is a saying jo karai so hari karai (Kabfra) So long as we are the doers, God does not direct our actions. We ourselves are the doers and suffer the consequences of these actions. Once we surrender, i.e. reach a state of doing nothing, then God does everything. When the individual is the doer, God performs the role of an impartial witness and takes note of every action, of every individual soul, and rewards them accordingly. However, when the individual soul surrenders, God becomes merciful, and eternally resides in that soul as his governor. From that auspicious moment, the individual soul is liberated from desires and their consequences. It is in .this context that Lord Krsna states in the Gita - samo'ham sarvabhutesu na me dveyo'sti na priyah ye bhajanti tu mum bhaktya mayi te tesu capyaham (Gita) "Neither is anyone dear nor hateful to Me, but I am in those who are devoted to Me, and they are in Me." God ceases to be a judge for them, forever. Apart from these reasons, the Saint also possesses Divine powers, although he may not always make use of them. With these powers, he appears to perform material actions, but he remains beyond Maya. A person happened to see three people in a prison- house. He asked the first why he was in the prison, and the man replied, "Don't you know that prison is a place where criminals are imprisoned to suffer punishment for their crimes? I too am a criminal." When the visitor heard this, he presumed that the other two people also belonged to the same category. But his presumption turned out to be totally wrong when he was told that the second person was the jailer and the third was the king. The jailer is employed to look after the welfare and reformation of the prisoners, and the king too performs the same work. However, the king visits the prison-house only in cases of emergency, while the jailer is always there. This whole world is also like a prison-house. The jailers are the Saints, who having attained eternal gratification, come to live in this world to help the prisoners, that is, the material sou1s, and eventually liberate them. Even though the prisoners abuse them, they persist in their task of redeeming mankind. In the same way, the king, that is God Himself, also descends on this earth in every age, in cases of emergency, for performing the same task as the Saints. All the three, Le. the individual souls, the Saints, and God are seen in the prison-house of the world, but there is a vast difference between the three. One is a prisoner, bound by the shackles of Maya. One is the Saint in the form of a government employee, who is beyond the bondage of Maya; and the king is God Himself who is the governor of Maya. Although these three perform actions in the world, there is a vast difference in their actions. The actions of material beings are governed by Maya. The Saints do not perform any actions themselves, since their actions are directed by God Himself through His Divine power, Yogamaya. Likewise, God also works through His personal power, Yogamaya. Though the actions of God' appear to be material actions, they are, in fact, Divine. In the same way, the actions of the Saints are also Divine - janma karma ca me divyamevam yo vetti tattvatah (Gita) bhakta hetu bhagavan prabhu rama dhareu tana bhupa kiye carita pavana parama prakrta nara anurupa (Ramayana) There is no question of any doubt here. If anyone questions the actions of God, asking why He performs unrighteous actions, then this question itself is naive, because God has no selfish motive. He does not have any kind of selfish love or hate. He is eternally blissful. Therefore, the motive behind His every action is only to grace mankind. It is a matter apart that we do not understand the significance of these actions due to our limited material intellect. If anyone were to again question why the actions of God are beyond our comprehension, then the precise answer is that He is an All-knowing Personality, and we are ignorant. He is Divine, and we are material beings. He is unlimited, and we are limited. He is All-powerful, and we are weak. He is the inspirer, and we are the inspired. He is the illuminator, and we are the illumined. He is the governor of Maya, and we are governed by Maya. The implication is that God and His actions are totally beyond the comprehension of our material, defective and limited senses, mind and intellect. In the same way, the actions of Saints, being directed by God, are also beyond our comprehension. Let alone the actions of Divine personalities, even actions in the material world cannot be understood by all. Take the example of a smart five year old child. He asks his mother and father whose son he is. His mother tells him, "You are my son.", and his father too makes the same claim. This little child wonders how both can make the same claim. Definitely one of them is mistaken. Even if the greatest of intellectuals were to try and make him understand how both his father and mother are right, he would not be able to understand, because he does not possess the vehicle of comprehending the reproductive facts of life at that age. It would only result in confusing him. However, instead of doubting his own inability to understand, he thinks that the others do not have a proper answer and are merely making excuses about his incapacity to understand. Now when this little child, unacquainted with desire for sex cannot be made to understand the facts of life, how then can the material beings who are diseased with lust, greed, anger, etc., understand the actions of those who are beyond these diseases, and are Divinely empowered? They may presume, like that innocent child, that they can understand, and blame those who fail to convince them. Thus they declare everything to be a deception; but they are only deceiving themselves. A famous muslim Saint named Maulana Jalaluddina Rumi has written in his book, Masnavi, (Part I, story No.12) that on the day of judgement, the actions of the Saints are never taken into account. Neither the righteous nor the unrighteous ones, because the Saints do not actually perform any action. Even R. A. Nicholson, the author of Divan-e-Samse-Tabriza, as written that the prophets attain union with Khuda. Therefore, the actions they perform are not their own, but actually inspired and performed by God Himself. Thus, all the examples we have in history of Saints performing worldly actions should not delude us. They were all inspired by God, and this fact has been clarified through each example previously mentioned. These Saints deliberately pretended to be deluded, in order to teach the material beings a lesson - they must never inquire into the actions of God and the Saints with their material intellects. If they do make this unauthorized attempt, it will only make them turn away from God. When Parvati pretended to be deluded by the actions of Lord Rama, Lord Siva very openly said rama krpa te paravati, sapanehum tava mana mahim soka moha sandeha bhrama mama vicara kachu nahim tadapi asanka kinheu joi, kahata sunata sabakara hita hoi (Ramayana) "O Parvati you have no doubts, nor can you be overpowered by illusion or ignorance, yet you deliberately put on this act of being deluded to warn material beings against inquiring into the incomprehensible Divine actions with their material logic, thereby bringing destruction upon themselves." Even the episode of Garuda's delusion is clarified by Kagabhusundi - tumhahim na samsaya moha na maya mopara natha kinha tuma daya (Ramayana) Discover Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 There is difference between Sattvic person (a Saint) and a self- realised being. Have you considered how easy it is for a unrealised soul to do whatever he wants for his sensual pleasure and then say he is not the do-er and it was God who did it though him? In fact many so called saints one sees around actually resort to this gimmick. In case of truly realised souls such as Ramakrishna and Ramana Maharshi, if you study their life, they never did anything objectionable even by worldly yardsticks... nothing at all. Hence one can conclude that the supreme/divine intellect which works through a realised soul will NEVER do anything ill by worldly yardsticks (something which can cause agony to non-realised beings around). Should we rather not look into the lives of these Jnanis who lived in recent years (and hence the documentation is more authentic) rather than base our assumptions on the characters in Puranic stories? In fact, one hardly finds a realised soul in entire Ramayana/ Mahabharata... they are all mere mortals... bound by desires and aversions like you and me... lets not delude ourselves by saying it was just their Lila. Tat tvam asi (You are that) Sachin , Totally useless <who_make_sense> wrote: > > Again, we have the episode of Sugriva marrying his own > brother's wife, in the very age when Laksmana established > the ideal of worshipping Sita, his brother's wife. Vibhisana too committed the same offence. He married his brother > Ravana's wife. > > > > There is no one in history who appears to have been > more deluded than Bharata. The cruel words he used for > his own mother, would hardly be expected even from a worldly > man, let alone a Saint - > > > > hanyamahamimam papam > kaikeyim dustacarinim > > (Valmiki Ramayana) > > > > "O murderess of your husband, cruel woman, you are > a demoness. Had 1 not feared that Lord Rama would abandon > me, I would have killed you without hesitation. " > > > > There are similar instances of Saints being deluded during the descension of Lord Krsna. The gopis, the maidens of > Braja, were supreme among all Saints. Even Brahma, Visnu > and Siva bow to them - > > > > Sasthivarsasahasrani maya taptam tapah pura > > nandagopabrajastrinam padarenupalabdhaye > > tathapi na maya praptastasam vai padarenavah > > (Bhagavatam) > > > > These very gopis married, bore children, and led common > household lives. The Saint Arjuna who received the wisdom > of the Gita, is stated to have been infatuated by a woman > of Nagaloka. The history of the Pandavas is quite shocking. > > The five brothers had five fathers. Arjuna was born of India, Bhima of Vayu, Nakula and Sahadeva from the Asvinikumaras, and Yudhisthira of Dharmaraja. Again, all these brothers accepted one woman, Draupadi and married her. The mighty Bhima also married a demoness named Hi9amba, and a son named Ghatotkaca resulted from this marriage. The history > of Arjuna is most puzzling of all. When both he and his > cousin Duryodhana approached Lord Krsna for help before > the war of Mahabharata, Lord Krsna gave Arjuna the choice > of either having His entire army, or having Krsna Himself > on his side, but weaponless. Arjuna without hesitation, accepted > Lord Krsna a; whilst Duryodhana was happy to have His army. Why did Arjuna reject the other offer of Lord Krsna entire > Obviously, he was aware of Lord Krsna true identity. But what happened to this awareness once the armies were > up for war? Why was he overcome by ignorance when saw his elders, relations and friends standing in the opposite camp, and refused to fight them? He knew they would on the opposite side, right from the time he went to Lord Krsna for help. To free him of his ignorance, Lord Krsna enlightened him through the words of wisdom contained in the Gita. It is certainly a wonder that before all these events took place, Arjuna had been referred to as a Saint in his previous life! > > > > All these examples from history prove the fact that all > the Saints behaved like worldly people, although they were > in fact eternally liberated and beyond the realm of Maya. An > ordinary man can never understand how these Saints, who > were beyond Maya, performed actions of Maya or ignorance. > We can accept the fact that Saints can perform righteous > actions, but we can never understand the fact that they can > also perform unrighteous ones. > > > > In truth, a Saint is one who does nothing, i.e. neither > righteous actions nor unrighteous actions. If he is able to do > any work even for a second, then he cannot be a Saint. > The Gita clearly states > > > > yastvatmaratireva syadatmatrptasca manavah > atmanyeva ca samtustastasya karyam na vidyate > (Gita) > > > > "One who becomes a Saint ceases to work" Just as > a seed is destroyed with the growth of the sprout, and flowers > wither with the ripening of fruits, once a person becomes > a Saint, all his actions come to an end. > > > > The scriptures are useful only to the extent that they > bring about union with God. Once that union is attained by > the individual soul, the Vedas and scriptures can be dispensed > with. From this it is evident why a Saint is unable to perform > any action. Having attained the final goal of all actions, the > need for action itself ceases. > > > > The second reason is that both good and bad actions > are binding, hence why will the individual who has attained > eternal gratification, perform any action again? > > > > The third reason is that God is the governor of Maya. > Maya governs the soul, the soul governs the intellect, the > intellect governs the mind, the mind governs the sense objects, > and the sense objects govern the sense organs. When an > individual soul realizes God, then Maya, which lies between > the two, the individual and God, is banished forever and God > becomes the direct governor of the soul. Henceforth, whatever > action that soul is seen to perform, is a direct result of Divine > inspiration. Every individual soul performs actions only with > the selfish motive of attaining perfect happiness. Once that > is attained, there is nothing that needs to be done. Whatever > is done by the Saint thereafter, is Divinely inspired, and can > hence be venerated as an action of God. The reason why > God directs the Saint to perform righteous or unrighteous > actions is something which He Himself knows. The Saint is > in no way responsible. > > > > For example, if a car is involved in an accident, the > car is not blamed because the car cannot move by itself. > It is the driver that is to be blamed and punished. In the > same way, until the individual soul surrenders to God, he > himself is the doer of every action. But once he surrenders > completely, he no longer is the doer. In truth, surrender itself > means the state of doing nothing. The Saint then becomes > more or less like the inanimate motor-car > > ananyas cintayanto mam > ye janah paryupasate > > tesam nityabhiyuktanam > yogaksemam vahamyaham > (Gita) > > > > God becomes the direct governor of the Saint and directs > his every action. The Saint lies in His lap, free of all fears, > and totally engrossed in Divine bliss. > > > > Fourthly, every action is prompted by desire. Once a > person attains Sainthood, he becomes totally gratified, hence > desire naturally comes to an end. There is no question of > performing any action thereafter. There is a saying > > jo karai so hari karai > (Kabfra) > > So long as we are the doers, God does not direct our > actions. We ourselves are the doers and suffer the > consequences of these actions. Once we surrender, i.e. reach > a state of doing nothing, then God does everything. When > the individual is the doer, God performs the role of an > impartial witness and takes note of every action, of every > individual soul, and rewards them accordingly. However, when > the individual soul surrenders, God becomes merciful, and > eternally resides in that soul as his governor. From that > auspicious moment, the individual soul is liberated from desires > and their consequences. It is in .this context that Lord Krsna > states in the Gita - > > > > samo'ham sarvabhutesu > na me dveyo'sti na priyah > ye bhajanti tu mum bhaktya > mayi te tesu capyaham > (Gita) > > > > "Neither is anyone dear nor hateful to Me, but I am > in those who are devoted to Me, and they are in Me." God > ceases to be a judge for them, forever. > > > > Apart from these reasons, the Saint also possesses Divine > powers, although he may not always make use of them. With > these powers, he appears to perform material actions, but > he remains beyond Maya. > > > > A person happened to see three people in a prison- > house. He asked the first why he was in the prison, and > the man replied, "Don't you know that prison is a place > where criminals are imprisoned to suffer punishment for their > crimes? I too am a criminal." When the visitor heard this, > he presumed that the other two people also belonged to > the same category. But his presumption turned out to be > totally wrong when he was told that the second person was > the jailer and the third was the king. The jailer is employed > to look after the welfare and reformation of the prisoners, > and the king too performs the same work. However, the > king visits the prison-house only in cases of emergency, while > the jailer is always there. > > > > This whole world is also like a prison-house. The jailers > are the Saints, who having attained eternal gratification, come > to live in this world to help the prisoners, that is, the material > sou1s, and eventually liberate them. Even though the prisoners > abuse them, they persist in their task of redeeming mankind. > In the same way, the king, that is God Himself, also descends > on this earth in every age, in cases of emergency, for > performing the same task as the Saints. All the three, Le. > the individual souls, the Saints, and God are seen in the > prison-house of the world, but there is a vast difference > between the three. One is a prisoner, bound by the shackles > of Maya. One is the Saint in the form of a government employee, who is beyond the bondage of Maya; and the > king is God Himself who is the governor of Maya. Although > these three perform actions in the world, there is a vast > difference in their actions. The actions of material beings are > governed by Maya. The Saints do not perform any actions > themselves, since their actions are directed by God Himself > through His Divine power, Yogamaya. Likewise, God also > works through His personal power, Yogamaya. Though the > actions of God' appear to be material actions, they are, in > fact, Divine. In the same way, the actions of the Saints are > > also Divine - > > > > janma karma ca me divyamevam yo vetti tattvatah > > (Gita) > > > > bhakta hetu bhagavan prabhu > > rama dhareu tana bhupa > > kiye carita pavana parama prakrta nara anurupa > (Ramayana) > > > > There is no question of any doubt here. If anyone > questions the actions of God, asking why He performs > unrighteous actions, then this question itself is naive, because > God has no selfish motive. He does not have any kind of > selfish love or hate. He is eternally blissful. Therefore, the > motive behind His every action is only to grace mankind. > It is a matter apart that we do not understand the significance > of these actions due to our limited material intellect. > > > > If anyone were to again question why the actions of > God are beyond our comprehension, then the precise answer > is that He is an All-knowing Personality, and we are ignorant. > He is Divine, and we are material beings. He is unlimited, > and we are limited. He is All-powerful, and we are weak. > He is the inspirer, and we are the inspired. He is the > illuminator, and we are the illumined. He is the governor > of Maya, and we are governed by Maya. The implication > is that God and His actions are totally beyond the > comprehension of our material, defective and limited senses, > mind and intellect. In the same way, the actions of Saints, > being directed by God, are also beyond our comprehension. > Let alone the actions of Divine personalities, even actions > in the material world cannot be understood by all. Take the > example of a smart five year old child. He asks his mother > and father whose son he is. His mother tells him, "You are > my son.", and his father too makes the same claim. This > little child wonders how both can make the same claim. Definitely one of them is mistaken. Even if the greatest of > intellectuals were to try and make him understand how both > his father and mother are right, he would not be able to > understand, because he does not possess the vehicle of > comprehending the reproductive facts of life at that age. It > would only result in confusing him. However, instead of > doubting his own inability to understand, he thinks that the > others do not have a proper answer and are merely making > excuses about his incapacity to understand. > > > > Now when this little child, unacquainted with desire for > sex cannot be made to understand the facts of life, how then > can the material beings who are diseased with lust, greed, > anger, etc., understand the actions of those who are beyond > these diseases, and are Divinely empowered? They may > presume, like that innocent child, that they can understand, > and blame those who fail to convince them. Thus they declare > everything to be a deception; but they are only deceiving > themselves. > > > > A famous muslim Saint named Maulana Jalaluddina Rumi has written in his book, Masnavi, (Part I, story No.12) that > on the day of judgement, the actions of the Saints are never > taken into account. Neither the righteous nor the unrighteous > ones, because the Saints do not actually perform any action. > Even R. A. Nicholson, the author of Divan-e-Samse-Tabriza, > as written that the prophets attain union with Khuda. Therefore, the actions they perform are not their own, but > actually inspired and performed by God Himself. > > > > > > Thus, all the examples we have in history of Saints > performing worldly actions should not delude us. They were > all inspired by God, and this fact has been clarified through > each example previously mentioned. These Saints deliberately > pretended to be deluded, in order to teach the material beings > a lesson - they must never inquire into the actions of God > and the Saints with their material intellects. If they do make > this unauthorized attempt, it will only make them turn away > from God. When Parvati pretended to be deluded by the actions > of Lord Rama, Lord Siva very openly said > > > > rama krpa te paravati, > sapanehum tava mana mahim > soka moha sandeha bhrama > mama vicara kachu nahim > tadapi asanka kinheu joi, > kahata sunata sabakara hita hoi > (Ramayana) > > > > "O Parvati you have no doubts, nor can you be > overpowered by illusion or ignorance, yet you deliberately put > on this act of being deluded to warn material beings against > inquiring into the incomprehensible Divine actions with their > material logic, thereby bringing destruction upon themselves." > > > > Even the episode of Garuda's delusion is clarified by > Kagabhusundi - > > > > tumhahim na samsaya moha na maya > mopara natha kinha tuma daya > (Ramayana) > Discover > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Understand scriptures from True Saints and your thinking will change........Now you are looking at it from point of Three Gunas, so you will find it according to which guna you are in.....You will know the exact meaning of Leela.........No point in discussing, If you are not willing to give time for satsangh.............Give some time to be with True saint and also your mind......With their Kripa.......you will see How wonderful the spiritual world is...and will also know.....you would have not known the secretes by your own....and you will to all..That YES .....Satsangh is most important.... You are trying to understand Spiritual subject with material mind........so bound to go wrong.even if you give in your 100%......But with Help and Kripa from Divine Saint...it can be understood.....Give it a Try....... sachinch <no_reply> wrote: There is difference between Sattvic person (a Saint) and a self- realised being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 , sachinch <no_reply> wrote: > There is difference between Sattvic person (a Saint) and a self- > realised being. AGREED. All saints are not realised souls. There were only two realised souls in Ramayana - Janaka and Shri Ram And there were only two realised souls in Mahabharata - Ved Vyasa and Shri Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Stop all this doctrinal nonsense. If sitting with a Saint is the only path, then what are you posting all these long passages for? Instead of that, you would serve a better purpose by naming a few living Saints whom you think right for this purpose. Tat tvam asi (You are that) Sachin ---- Totally useless 06/16/05 17:11:45 Re: Re: Saints- Part-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Anusuyaji, I agree there is difference between a satvik and an enlighted one.satvik is at first step and the enlighted one crossed the last. The staement about only only two people in Ramayana and mahabharata looks definately incorrect. What about Rama,s guru Vashishtha the Brahmaharshi?What about Akrur? What about Sandipani?What about Sati Anusuya? What about Asthavakra?The enlighted ones were there at those times also and nowadays also. Some come into focus and others pass away silently. They dont become famous,that doesnt means they are not enlighted. There are many,I meant to say that. Anyways it makes no difference to them,either we say them enlighted or not.Its just a comment. Uday --- Anusuya <no_reply> wrote: > , sachinch > <no_reply> wrote: > > There is difference between Sattvic person (a > Saint) and a self- > > realised being. > > AGREED. All saints are not realised souls. > There were only two > realised souls in Ramayana - Janaka and Shri Ram > > And there were only two realised souls in > Mahabharata - Ved Vyasa > and Shri Krishna > > > > > > > > > > Read only the mail you want - Mail SpamGuard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Sachin..............Kripaluji Maharaj is True saint.........please read about HIM on www.jkp.org and also watch HIS pravachans on Aastha channel at 6.45 am to 7.15 am and HIS pracharika Braj Parikari Devi ji immediately after Maharaj ji's pravachan on same channel......at 7.30 pm on Sanskar Channel.... I suggest you should watch them........ Sachin Chavan <chavansachin wrote: Stop all this doctrinal nonsense. If sitting with a Saint is the only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 it is very very difficult to find a saint nowa days. no need to find a saint. better to keep quiet(summa iru) or meditate namasivayam --- Sachin Chavan <chavansachin wrote: > Stop all this doctrinal nonsense. If sitting with a > Saint is the only path, > then what are you posting all these long passages > for? Instead of that, you > would serve a better purpose by naming a few living > Saints whom you think > right for this purpose. > > Tat tvam asi > (You are that) > > Sachin > > ---- > > Totally useless > 06/16/05 17:11:45 > > Re: Re: Saints- Part-2 > > > > > Mail Mobile Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile./learn/mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 "Constantly call on God, that He may show you a man who is able to direct you well, one whom you ought to obey as though he were God Himself, whose instructions you must carry out without hesitation... It is better for you to be called a disciple of a disciple rather than to live by your own devices and gather the worthless fruits of your own will... So, brother, do as we have said, and go to the man whom God shows you, either mystically in person, or externally through His servant." - St Symeon, The new Theologian St. Symeon the New Theologian is an Eastern Orthodox saint. He lived from 949 to 1022 in the Byzantine Empire (now part of Turkey). While presiding as abbot over St. Mamas Monastery in Constantinople, he delivered a number of sermons which stressed that Christianity only becomes meaningful when the living Christ is encountered personally. , nama siva <nama_sivam> wrote: > > it is very very difficult to find a saint nowa days. > no need to find a saint. > better to keep quiet(summa iru) > or > meditate > namasivayam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Namaste all. Here are a few beautiful verses from "Sri Rama Carita Manas"- by Sant Tulasi Dasa aba mohi bhA bharosa hanumantA, binu "hari kRpA" milahi nahi santA. I have now full confidence and faith in the great devotee Sri Hanumanji. Without the causeless Grace of Lord Hari, no one can acquire the association of God-realized Saints. santa vizuddha milahi puni tehI, 'rAma kRpA' kari cita vahi jehI Fortunate association with the pure devotees of the Lord, the Rasik Saints is ordained to the sincere seekers by the causeless Grace of Lord Ramacandra. binu satsanga viveka na hoyI, 'rAma kRpA' binu sulabha na soyI. Without the association of pure devotees, the Rasik-Saints, no knowledge of devotion can dawn in the hearts of the seekers. And without His Divine Grace, no such association can be easily accomplished! mana krama vacana chADi caturAyI, bhjatahi 'kRpA' karata raghurAyI. So throwing away all the arrogance, selfish interests and craftiness from one's word, deed and mind, if one sincerely pray for Lord's Grace, Lord Hari will shower His causeless Grace upon those yearning ones! titIkSavaH kAruNikAH suhRdaH sarva dehinAM ajAta zatravaH zAntAH sAdhavaH sAdhu bhUSaNAH. The Rasik Saints can be distinguished from the rest as They are- forbearing, compassionate and composed. They are friendly to all living beings and inimical to none and ever peaceful. Their good disposition itself serves as an ornament to them. With an undivided heart They engage in unflinching devotion to Me. And for My sake, They abandon even Their obligatory duties and forsake Their kinsmen and relations. Nay, They listen to and narrate delightful stories relating to Me, Their mind ever set on Me. Afflictions of various kinds never torment such Saints. Such are holy men, free from attachment, O virtuous lady! Attachment to such Saints must be sought for by you; for They counteract the pernicious effects of worldly attachment. Bhagavatam 3.25.21-24 satAM prasaGgAn mama vIrya saMvidO bhavanti hRtkarNa rasAyanAH kathAH, tajjOSaNAd Azv apavarga vartmani zraddhA ratir bhaktir anukramiSyati Bhagavatam 3.25.25 Through the fellowship of the Rasik Saints, the seeker gets to hear My (Lord's) blissful stories and heroic exploits leading to a correct and complete knowledge of My Glory, pleasing his ears and relishing in his heart. By hearing from such pure devotees whose realization is preceded by the cessation of ignorance, the seeker is sure to develop one after the other faith, reverence, fondness, attachment and loving devotion to the Lord." Jaya Sri Radhey! , nama siva <nama_sivam> wrote: > > it is very very difficult to find a saint nowa days. > no need to find a saint. > better to keep quiet(summa iru) > or > meditate > namasivayam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 You are told, where who is Saint.....The diffculty is in you, accepting it........ nama siva <nama_sivam wrote: it is very very difficult to find a saint nowa days. no need to find a saint. better to keep quiet(summa iru) or meditate namasivayam --- Sachin Chavan <chavansachin wrote: > Stop all this doctrinal nonsense. If sitting with a > Saint is the only path, > then what are you posting all these long passages > for? Instead of that, you > would serve a better purpose by naming a few living > Saints whom you think > right for this purpose. > > Tat tvam asi > (You are that) > > Sachin > > ---- > > Totally useless > 06/16/05 17:11:45 > > Re: Re: Saints- Part-2 > > > > > Mail Mobile Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile./learn/mail / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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