Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 The following comment was sent by a member via email to the moderators. (Name removed to respect privacy.) As mentioned in earlier posts, we don't moderate or remove opinions or attitudes, unless insulting and/or foul language is being used. One of the aspects of open dialogue is sometimes there may be opinions that we may not agree or appreciate, but as long as it is presented without direct insult to others it is allowed in our forum. All members are encouraged to contradict opinions and "facts" that are presented here if they wish. It is not contradiction that becomes negative in energy, but how it done. Please send in your views freely, whenever you feel someone has presented information that is incorrect or unfair. Our attempt here is to have as much an open forum as possible without becoming jungle law where anything goes. A lot of information is floating around on the net these days. We hope, through dialogue with our respected and knowledgeable members we can sieve through some of it and retain for use what is genuine and fair. In fact this is one of the things we hope for in our forum. We have a great opportunity to demonstrate the art of respectful dissent whenever we disagree. Personally I use it as a spiritual tool for my own growth. Much love to all _/\_ Tat twam asi Uma PS. I'm out of town and haven't been able to participate with any concentration. In a week I wil be returning home and hope to join in again with everyone. ---------------- Namaste. A quote is from the previous post # 5948: .....Just like Lord Siva, his devotees are all like that mouse, want something. ...... This uttering is blasphemy and unsaintly, not befitting in the discourse of a spiritual teacher. The speech should have been edited by the moderator before it is posted. Thanks. <edited> , "krsnajoe" <omd01788@w...> wrote: > text-228 > "Again Become A Mouse!" > Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.15.20 > Los Angeles, November 30, 1973 > > listen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada, Srila Gaurangapada and all Vaisnavas. Please accept my humble obeisances and blessings. I pray that this meets you well and in the service/mercy of Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga. In a humble attempt to clarify what Srila Prabhupada was speaking of concerning the last post inwhich one of your members was offended; "....Just like Lord Siva, his devotees are all like that mouse, want something. ...... This uttering is blasphemy and unsaintly, not befitting in the discourse of a spiritual teacher." If we attempt to understand the message of "The Mouse" we will find that all things in material nature, no matter what their position is, from Lord Brahma down to the ant, that all things have desires that are not condusive either to spiritual growth or spiritual evolution. In this story, the poor mouse has many problems, one of them being a cat. In his desire to "solve" his affliction of material existance, inwhich karma has dictated, he approaches a sadhu for some sort of relief. The Sadhu is in the position of Sri Krsna. The mouse approaches Sri Krsna telling Him of his problems so the Lord grants him the desires of his heart. But, as the mouse is soon to realize, each body that he asks for has its own inherant problems. As a mouse, his problem was a cat, as a cat, it was the dog, as the dog, it was the tiger, as the tiger, it was the desire to rule over the Sadhu. As we progress, if we do not follow the instructions of the Lord and the spiritual master, we are in danger of returning back to our first body, in this case, that of a mouse. Srila Prabhupada did not blaspheme Lord Shiva in stating that he is like a mouse, but in that Lord Shiva's position, He too has His problems in His post. What are Lord Shiva's desires? No matter what, if they are not for the pleasure of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, those desires are of a selfish motive. All things within material nature are subject to the same laws of Maya, no position is exempt. Lord Brahama, Lord Shiva, Lord Indra, etc., all have their exhaulted positions, and infact are due our worship and utmost respect, but the point is, They too have Their desires and are in the service of the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna. I do not believe that Srila Prabhupada would intentionally blaspheme Lord Shiva in any manner. Like many other devotees of His Divine Grace, I accept his words, and am in no position to change one letter. I know that Jaya Kesheva Prabhu feels the same, since he is a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Many things, like this lecture, are within time, place and circumstance, given in the time that it was explained. This does not mean that the original meaning of his lecture is not relivant today, but that we must be of another understanding of where Srila Prabhupada was at the time he gave this lecture, and also understanding of the full message of what Srila Prabhupada was trying to convey to his disciples. When one is "offended" by the words of a Sadhu, we must also judge ourselves. As I said above, Srila Prabhupada would not knowingly blasheme Lord Shiva. In the Caitanya Bhagavata, it is given by Sri Krishna Caitanya that if a Vaisnava does not give due respect to Lord Shiva, then that Vaisnava is in great offense. It is also stated by Sri Caitanya that Lord Shiva is Sri Krishna's greatest disciple, so how can one be offensive to Lord Shiva when we can go to Him when we have difficulties in our devotional service? We cannot take one sentence and make a judgment concerning the devotional service of a Sadhu, this too is offense. I humbly ask this devotee to forgive any offense that has been laid at his/her lotus feet concerning this statement of Srila Prabhupada. I pray that my feeble attempts to explain this situation has met with your satisfaction. Your eternal servant; Nitaipada Maharaja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Hello everyone, Hey, sorry that I didnt edit that message (the part about lord shiva). In fact I aproved it without even reading it. To be honest I am not a friend of the hare krishnas and I solely aprove them because it belongs to this clubs tradition to be tolerant to that extent... I am sorry I cant even read those messages ) from now on I will not moderate them, I will let someone else do that. Now that I went back and read it, once again I had to be confronted with the hatred towards women that always emanates from the fanatical Hare Krishnas. Women are not weak, women are actually stronger that men, thats why they are appointed by nature the duty of giving birth and supporting morally and practically whole families. Myself, I am a devotee of Lord Shiva, he is my God and he represents all the qualities I admire. Not to mention that the writer has something against americans ). I am not offended by reading that, because the author has no actual arguments or any logical platform to support his views... So I face that with humour. regards Angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Namaste all. Thanks to Uma ji and Angela for their efforts in keeping the contoversial un-moderated group messages open to discussion just as this.... "....Just like Lord Siva, his devotees are all like that mouse, want something. ...... This uttering is blasphemy and unsaintly, not befitting in the discourse of a spiritual teacher." I like to repost my message on Lord Siva as an apology from the devotees of Lord Radha Krishna. Om Namah Sivayah! When Lord Krishna and Radharani played the magnificent Divine dance of 'Maha Raasa Lila', Shankar Bhagavan entered the Lila as a Gopi. Thus He became popular with the Name Gopi-Isvara. There is a temple in Vrindavan for Gopisvara, Whom all Vrajavasis worship with love. Lord Siva Himself is the Master of Music. Worshippers of Nada Brahma, the Sound Incarnate of Lord, accept Him as their Guru. Some Rasik Saints say Lord Siva is Lord Krishna's 'Flute'. They are alsi right in the sense, that because the 'Flute' is Krishna's 'Priya Sakhi' and Sivaji too has transformed Himself to become His Gopi, any way. This verse from 'Brahma-Samhita-56', which is very dear to Gauranga Mahaprabhu confirms - "..vaMzI priya sakhI..." The verse 45 of 'Sri Brahma Samahitam' gives another kind of transformation - "kSIraM yathA dadhi vikAra vizeSa yogAt saJjAyate na hi pRthag asti hetoH yaH zambhu tAm api tathA samupaiti kAryAd govindam AdipuruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi" Meaning: Just as milk itself is transformed into curd (yogurt), but yet they both are neither SAME nor DIFFERENT from each other, so also I adore my Beloved primeveal Lord Govinda, Who has transformed Himself into Lord Shiva for the performance of divine lilas. Here are some more excerpts, taken from Brahma Vaivarta Purana in relation to Lord Siva. "Lord Siva is said to be a portion of Lord Krishna and arise out of the left side of Krshna's body. "vAmarddhAGgo mahAdevo dakSiNo gopikApatiH" The left half became Siva and the right became the Husband of Gopis. He is dearly loved by Krishna. The BVP says it is sin to slander Siva, Who is dearer to Krishna than His own life. Krishna Himself declares: "Among my favorites Brahma is dear to Me. Lakshmi, ever residing on my chest, is dearer than Brahma. Radha is yet dearer, and my devotees are dearer still. Dearest of all is Shankara (Siva); no one is dearer than He. My heart resides with my devotees, My life with Radha. My Self with Sankara, who is dearer than My life." (Bkh,Pkh, KJkh of BVP) Those who are the Excellant Portions of Krishna are intensely devoted to Him. It is not surprising then that Siva, a Portion of Krishna, is His Devotee. We find frequent references to Siva as the BEST OF VAISNAVAS. Accordingly, Siva seeks to become the Servant of Krishna and confesses His own dependence upon the latter. Siva is often portrayed as in constant MEDITATION ON KRISHNA, WEEPING, DANCING with ECSTACY of devotion. Of all those who know Krishna, it is Siva, the BEST OF VAISNAVAS, who knows Him best. Lord Ramacandra has declared in Sri Rama Carita Manas: aurau eka guputa mata sabahi kahaum kara jori, shankara bhajana binaa nara bhagati na paavai mori With folded hands I now lay before you one MORE SECRET doctrine: WITHOUT ADORING Lord Shankara NO MAN can ATTAIN loving DEVOTION to ME. Thus, by Siva's Grace a votary may attain faith in Krishna. Siva in fact states that those who oppress Vaisnavas will be punished by Krishna and that the hearts of non-vaisnavas are impure He further exclaims that Vaisnavas are DEARER to HIM than HIS OWN followers. Krishna, Who is filled with Love for His devotees, has made Siva equal to Himself on account of Siva's DEEP Devotion. Krishna asserts that Siva is fully His EQUAL in splendour, knoweledge and virtue. Further, the Divine Forms or Bodies (Sat-Chit-Ananda vigrahas) of Siva and Krishna alone are Eternal, not those of other beings. It is through Siva's Devotion to Krishna, finally, not MERE EQUALITY, but actual IDENTITY is apparently attained: 'svapne jAgaraNe zazvath kRSNa dhyAna rataH zivaH yathA kRSNA stathA zambhur na bhedo mAdhavezayoH" (Brahma Vaivarta Purana-Prakriti khanda II.56.61) "Sleeping or awake, Siva is constantly absorbed in MEDITATION of KRISHNA. AS IS KRISHNA, SO IS SAMBHU; THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between MADHAVA and ISA" 'yo hariH sa zivaH sAkSAd yaH zivaH sa svayaM hariH ye tayor bhedamAti sthan narakAya bhave nnaraH" (Visnu purana.5.33.46) "Whoever is Lord Hari, He Himself is Lord Shiva indeed. Whoever is manifesting as Lord Shiva, He Himself is Lord Hari. Any humanbeing mistakes both the Lords to be different, he/she surely goes to hell. In Vishnu Purana also, VISHNU declares HIS NON DIFFERENCE from SIVA. (V.P.5.33.46-48) Here we find, full justification for the statement in the Narada PancaRatra concerning the BVP as teaching the NON DIFFERENCE between HARI AND HARA. Often we are told that whoever does not worship the Linga of Siva commits a great sin and goes to hell. Krishna says to Siva: "Who, having constructed Your linga of clay, joined with Prakriti (yoni), at a place of piligrimage, worships it a thousand times with devotion... He shall rejoice with Me in GOLOKA for crore of Kalpas. And who worships at that place a lakh of lingas, with proper offerings, Shall not fall from GOLOKA; He shall be equal to US. Saivaite devotional practices lead, then, to the ultimate goal of the Vaisnavas. In Brahma-Samhita the relationship of Lord Siva and Lord Govinda are compared to that of milk and yogurt. Milk itself becomes TRANSFORMED into yogurt. Similarly, though They both are possessing the same transcendental attributes, They PERFORM different divine pastimes. "yathA ziva mayo viSNuH zivasya hRdayaM viSNur viSNoz ca hRdayaM zivaH" (Skanda Purana) Just as Lord Vishnu is pervaded by Lord Shiva, similarly, in Siva's heart Vishnu resides and Vishnu's heart is the abode of Shiva. In Caitanya Caritamrita, Mahaprabhu's eternal Associate Sri Advaitacarya is said to be Lord Sadasiva, who always says, "I am the servant of Lord Krishna." Intoxicated by ecstatic Love for Krishna, He becomes overwhelmed and incessantly dances without clothing and sings about Lord Krishna's qualities and pastimes. " nimnagAnAM yathA gaMgA devAnAm acyuto yathA vaiSNavAnAM yathA zambhuH purANAnAm idaM tathA kSetrANAM caiva sarveSAM yathA kAzI hyonuttamA tathA purANa vratAnAM zrI mad bhAgavataM dvijAH " (Srimad Bhagavatam 12.13.17) Just as the celestial Ganges is the most Holy among all the flowing rivers, just as Lord Krishna is the Supreme among all Divine Personalties, just as Lord Siva is the most Exalted Lover of Vishnu, just as the City of Kasi is the most Sacred among all Holy places, Srimad Bhagavatam is also the most fulfilling vow as well as the most elevated Scripture among all other auspicious Puranas. In the Padma Purana, it is said: ArAdhanAnAM sarvezam viSNor ArAdhanam param tasmAt parataraM devI tadIyAnam samArcanam Once, Parvati devi asked Lord Siva, "Of all kinds of worship, whose worship is best?" Then, Lord Siva told her plainly, "The worship and devotional service of Lord Narayana, Visnu, is the highest." Then Parvati became a little mortified and disappointed, thinking, "But I am serving Siva, so I hold a lower position." Then the next line came - tasmAt parataraM devI tadiyAnam samArcanam. "But higher than the worship of Narayana is worship of the devotees of Lord Narayana. That is even greater than devotion to the Lord Himself." Then, Parvati smiled, thinking, "Then I am serving the devotee of the Lord. Siva is a devotee: vaiSNavAnam yathA zambhuH. So, I am doing the best thing." This is also confirmed by Krishna, in the Adi Purana : ye me bhakta-janAH pArtha ne me bhaktas ca te janaH mad bhaktAnAM ca ye bhaktas te me bhaktatama mataH "Those who worship Me directly are not real devotees; real devotees are those who are devoted to My devotees." Prayers to Lord Shiva- "jagadguro namastubhyaM zivAya zivadAya ca yogIndrANAm ca yogIndra gurUNAM gurave namaH" "Salutations unto Thee, O Teacher of the universe. Thou art the Lord auspicious and the giver of bliss, the foremost of the perfect Yogis, the Teacher of teachers. Salutations unto Thee." (BVP 4.30.43) Another prayer for Shivaji says- "haste 'kSa mAlA hRdi kRSNa tattvaM jihvAgra bhAge vara rAma mantraM yan mastake kezava pAda tirthaM zivaM 'mahA bhAgavatAM' namAmi" Meaning- I salute to the Supreme Devotee, (Maha Bhagavata) in Whose hand is the a-ksha (A to Z) japamaala, in Whose heart is the reservoir of Divine Essence of Lord Krishna, on Whose tongue is ever residing the Name of His Beloved Rama, on Whose head is ever flowing Sacred water that washes the Lotus feet of Lord Keshava. Jai Hari-Hara, Mahaadeva Shambho! brahma murAri surArcita lingam nirmalabhAsita zobhita lingam janmaja duHkha vinAzaka lingam tat praNamAmi sadAziva lingam I bow before that Sada Shiva Linga, which is adored by Brahma, Vishnu and other Gods, which is praised by pure and holy speeches and which destroys the cycle of births and deaths. Jaya Sri Radhey ! 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Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Dear Angela and All Sadhaks: Pranams to everyone _/\_ I am so sorry for the disturbance caused by the post most of the time someone will not even think that some words might bring distress to others. I am a Vaishnava and i have much love and respect for Lord Shiva since He is so merciful he guides His bhaktas sooner or later to the lotus feet of Sri Krishna ,hence we have much respect for him as a great devotee of the lord. And I am sorry for your feelings towards "The Hare Krishnas" do Vaishnavas chant the mantra Hare Krishna as in Gaudiya math is many many brances of Vaishnavism but persons who follow this path shouldn't all be cataloged in the same level since the persons you reffering to is a small branch from the tree of Sri Caitanya mahaprabhu and is more widely known as "ISKCON" but many like myself are not part of this movement and we do not have the same fanatical mind or the Inquisition times mental attitude concerning the sexes etc. so I am sorry you have had such a bad experience but many of the Hare Krishnas outside this organization are very loving and understanding so please do not take it to heart and remember this is just a way for us to become more tolerant and understanding of what place in evolution we stand. Gandhi said " an eye for an eye will make the world blind" so please let us walk in tolerance and love. tulsi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Hello dear Tulsi, Yes, I was refering to the ISCKON. I could have surely nothing against having Krishna as a personal deity. This depends solely on the personal mental, emotional and spiritual set up of each aspirant. I have read few books of ISCKON, and although I consider the mantra powerful, I do not agree with all the attitude and the mental "dictatorship". Yes, I do not doubt, that there are lovely people out there which do not belong to that organization. I believe there can be lovely people in the organization itself, my objections have to do with their teachings and dogmas though. _/|\_ Angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Dear Members and Friends,Please Accept my Most Humble Onbiesances,And Please accept My appolizies for offending anyone on this board! I will explain,what my Gurudeva Has said,And How it was so wrongly Misinterpreted!My Gurudeva Never meant to offend anyone,espesally Lord Siva,Who he, has offten said, is the Best of the Vaisnava Devotees Of Krsna, Or Visnue, or Nayarana,all expanions of Krsna! He has offten said Lord Siva very easly gives Benidictions to His Devotees!If you want a Material Benidiction,Lord Siva Will give You one,With Very Little Prayers to Him,Because He is so Nice! Srila Prabhupada Never Offended Lord Siva ! His Words Were ("....Just like Lord Siva, his devotees are all like that mouse, want something. ......)He never Said anything Bad about Lord Siva,He was Referring to His Devotees,Who Offten Go to Lord Siva for Something,Because Lord Siva Gives things ,Very Easlily,He never said Lord Siva was Bad ,For giving Benidictions easy,it is just a Fact! Accutally he was refering to a Past-time From The Tenth Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam,.Lord Siva is Known for Him Being the Greatest Devotee of Lord Krsna! This is Just a Misunderstandment,and My Guru never ment to Put down Women,He just wanted to Protect Them,and Explain this Protection!As Arjunananda Prabhu has so nicely said,Srila Prabhupada Said ", that if a Vaisnava does not give due respect to Lord Shiva, then that Vaisnava is in great offense. It is also stated by Sri Caitanya that Lord Shiva is Sri Krishna's greatest disciple," and Arjunananda Prabhu also mentioned that we are ofenisive if we say such insults about My Guru,who has spred Krsna Consciousness around the world,Like Lord Caitanya Predicted,"this chanting of Hare Krsna Will soon be heard in every town and village!" This is the Story that Srila Prabhupada Was Reffering too! LORD SIVA AND VRKASURA THis Story is Long,But it Explain Why my Guru compared this Pastime to (comming back as a Mouse) Please Forgive me for any Offenises,You know I have Been Posting Here for awhile ,and Only want to spred Krsna Prema(LOVE OF KRSNA)Please Read,, there is a Surprise at the End,Your Servant Jaya Kesava Dasa After receiving instruction from Narada, the demon Vrkasura went to Kedaranatha. The pilgrimage site of Kedaranatha still exists near Kashmere. It is almost always covered by snow, but for part of the year, during the month of July, it is possible to see the deity, and devotees go there to offer their respects. Kedaranatha is for the devotees of Lord Siva. According to the Vedic principle, when something is offered to the deities to eat, it is offered in a fire. Therefore a fire sacrifice is necessary in all sorts of ceremonies. It is specifically stated in the sastras that gods are to be offered something to eat through the fire. The demon Vrkasura therefore went to Kedaranatha and ignited a sacrificial fire to please Lord Siva. After igniting the fire in the name of Siva, he began to offer his own flesh, by cutting it from his body so as to please Lord Siva. Here is an instance of worship in the mode of ignorance. In the Bhagavad-gita, different types of sacrifice are mentioned. Some sacrifices are in the mode of goodness, some are in the mode of passion, and some are in the mode of ignorance. There are different kinds of tapasya and worship because there are different kinds of people within this world. But the ultimate tapasya, Krsna consciousness, is the topmost yoga and the topmost sacri-fice. As confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita the topmost yoga is to think always of Lord Krsna within the heart, and the topmost sacrifice is to perform the sankertana-yajna.(CHANTING) In the Bhagavad-gita~ it is stated that the worshipers of the demigods have lost their intelligence. As will be revealed later in this chapter. Vrkasura wanted to satisfy Lord Siva for a third-class materialistic objective, which was temporary and without real benefit. The asuras or persons within the mode of ignorance will accept such benedictions from the demigods. In complete contrast to this sacrifice in the modes of ignorance, the arcana-viddhi process for worshiping Lord Visnu or Krsna is very simple. Lord Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita that He accepts from a devotee even a little fruit, a flower or some water, which can be gathered by any person, poor or rich. Of course, those who are rich are not expected to offer only a little water, a little piece of fruit or a little leaf to the Lord. A rich man should offer according to his position, but if the devotee happens to be a very poor man ,the Lord will accept even the most meager offering. The worship of Lord Visnu or Krsna is very simple and can be executed by anyone in this world. But worship in the mode of ignorance, as exhibited by Vrkasura, is not only very difficult and painful, but it is also a useless waste of time. Therefore Bhagavad-gita says that the worshipers of the demigods are bereft of intelligence; their process of worship is very difficult, and at the same time the result obtained is flickering and temporary. Although Vrkasura continued his sacrifice for six days, he was never the less unable to personally see Lord Siva, which was his objective; he wanted to see him face to face and ask him for a benediction. Here is another contrast between a demon and a devotee. A devotee is confident that whatever he offers to the Deity, in full devotional service is accepted by the Lord, but a demon wants to see his worshipable deity face to face ,so that he can directly take the benediction. A devotee, however, does not worship Visnu or Lord Krsna for any benediction. Therefore a devotee is called akama, free of desire, and a nondevotee is called sarva-kama, or desirous of everything. On the seventh day, the demon Vrkasura decided that he should cut off his head and offer it to satisfy Lord Siva. Thus he took bath in the nearby lake, and without drying his body and hair, he prepared to cut off his head. According to the Vedic system, an animal which is to be offered as a sacrifice has to be bathed first, and while the animal is wet he is sacrificed. When the demon was thus preparing to cut off his head, Lord Siva became very compassionate. This compassion, however, is a symptom of the quality of goodness. Lord Siva is called trilinga. Therefore his manifestation of the nature of compassion is a sign of the quality of goodness. This compassion, however, is present in every living entity. The compassion of Lord Siva was aroused because the demon was offering his flesh to the sacrificial fire. This is natural compassion. Even if a common man sees someone preparing to commit suicide, it is his duty to try to save him. He does so automatically. There is no need to appeal to him. Therefore when Lord Siva appeared from the fire to check the demon from suicide, it was not as a very great favor to him. The demon was saved from committing suicide by the touch of Lord Siva; his bodily injuries immediately healed, and his body became as it was before. Then Lord Siva told the demon, "My dear Vrkasura, you do not need to cut off your head. You can ask from me any benediction you like, and I shall fulfill your desire. I do not know why you wanted to cut off your head to satisfy me. I become satisfied even by an offering of a little water." Actually, according to the Vedic process, the Siva linga in the temple or the form of Lord Siva in the temple is worshiped simply by offering Ganges water because it is said that Lord Siva is greatly satisfied The demon was saved from committing suicide by the touch of Lord Siva; his bodily injuries immediately healed, and his body became as it was before. Then Lord Siva told the demon, "My dear Vrkasura, you do not need to cut off your head. You can ask from me any benediction you like, and I shall fulfill your desire. I do not know why you wanted to cut off your head to satisfy me. I become satisfied even by an offering of a little water." Actually, according to the Vedic process, the Siva linga in the temple or the form of Lord Siva in the temple is worshiped simply by offering Ganges water because it is said that Lord Siva is greatly satisfied After receiving instruction from Narada, the demon Vrkasura went to Kedaranatha. The pilgrimage site of Kedaranatha still exists near Kashmere. It is almost always covered by snow, but for part of the year, during the month of July, it is possible to see the deity, and devotees go there to offer their respects. Kedaranatha is for the devotees of Lord Siva. According to the Vedic principle, when something is offered to the deities to eat, it is offered in a fire. Therefore a fire sacrifice is necessary in all sorts of ceremonies. It is specifically stated in the s'astras that gods are to be offered something to eat through the fire. The demon Vrkasura therefore went to Kedaranatha and ignited a sacrificial fire to please Lord Siva. After igniting the fire in the name of Siva, he began to offer his own flesh, by cutting it from his body so as to please Lord Siva. Here is an instance of worship in the mode of ignorance. In the Bhagavad-gita, different types of sacrifice are mentioned. Some sacrifices are in the mode of goodness, some are in the mode of passion, and some are in the mode of ignorance. There are different kinds of tapasya and worship because there are different kinds of people within this world. But the ultimate tapasya, Krsna consciousness, is the topmost yoga and the topmost sacri-fice. As confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita the topmost yoga is to think always of Lord Krsna within the heart, and the topmost sacrifice is to perform the sankertana-yajna.(CHANTING) In the Bhagavad-gita~ it is stated that the worshipers of the demigods have lost their intelligence. As will be revealed later in this chapter. Vrkasura wanted to satisfy Lord Siva for a third-class materialistic objective, which was temporary and without real benefit. The asuras or persons within the mode of ignorance will accept such benedictions from the demigods. In complete contrast to this sacrifice in the modes of ignorance, the arcana-viddhi process for worshiping Lord Visnu or Krsna is very simple. Lord Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita that He accepts from a devotee even a little fruit, a flower or some water, which can be gathered by any person, poor or rich. Of course, those who are rich are not expected to offer only a little water, a little piece of fruit or a little leaf to the Lord. A rich man should offer according to his position, but if the devotee happens to be a very poor man ,the Lord will accept even the most meager offering. The worship of Lord Visnu or Krsna is very simple and can be executed by anyone in this world. But worship in the mode of ignorance, as exhibited by Vrkasura, is not only very difficult and painful, but it is also a useless waste of time. Therefore Bhagavad-gita says that the worshipers of the demigods are bereft of intelligence; their process of worship is very difficult, and at the same time the result obtained is flickering and temporary. Although Vrkasura continued his sacrifice for six days, he was never the less unable to personally see Lord Siva, which was his objective; he wanted to see him face to face and ask him for a benediction. Here is another contrast between a demon and a devotee. A devotee is confident that whatever he offers to the Deity, in full devotional service is accepted by the Lord, but a demon wants to see his worshipable deity face to face ,so that he can directly take the benediction. A devotee, however, does not worship Visnu or Lord Krsna for any benediction. Therefore a devotee is called akama, free of desire, and a nondevotee is called sarva-kama, or desirous of everything. On the seventh day, the demon Vrkasura decided that he should cut off his head and offer it to satisfy Lord Siva. Thus he took bath in the nearby lake, and without drying his body and hair, he prepared to cut off his head. According to the Vedic system, an animal which is to be offered as a sacrifice has to be bathed first, and while the animal is wet he is sacrificed. When the demon was thus preparing to cut off his head, Lord Siva became very compassionate. This compassion, however, is a symptom of the quality of goodness. Lord Siva is called trilinga. Therefore his manifestation of the nature of compassion is a sign of the quality of goodness. This compassion, however, is present in every living entity. The compassion of Lord Siva was aroused because the demon was offering his flesh to the sacrificial fire. This is natural compassion. Even if a common man sees someone preparing to commit suicide, it is his duty to try to save him. He does so automatically. There is no need to appeal to him. Therefore when Lord Siva appeared from the fire to check the demon from suicide, it was not as a very great favor to him. The demon was saved from committing suicide by the touch of Lord Siva; his bodily injuries immediately healed, and his body became as it was before. Then Lord Siva told the demon, "My dear Vrkasura, you do not need to cut off your head. You can ask from me any benediction you like, and I shall fulfill your desire. I do not know why you wanted to cut off your head to satisfy me. I become satisfied even by an offering of a little water." Actually, according to the Vedic process, the Siva linga in the temple or the form of Lord Siva in the temple is worshiped simply by offering Ganges water because it is said that Lord Siva is greatly satisfied ed by a very simple process of wo?ship. Why then was he so anxious to cut off his head, and why was he taking so much pain by cutting his body to pieces and offering it in the fire? There was no need of such severe penances. Anyway, out of compassion and sympathy, Lord Siva preparedto give him any benediction he liked. When the demon was offered this facility by Lord Siva, he asked for a very fearful and abominable benediction. The demon was very sinful, and sinful persons do not know what sort of benediction should be asked from the deity. Therefore he asked Lord Siva to be benedicted with such power that as soon as he would touch anyone's head, immediately it would crack, and the man would die. The demons are described in the Bhagavad-gita as duskrtinas, or miscreants. Krti means very meritorious, but when dus, is added, it means abominable. Instead of surrendering unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the duskrtinas worship different demi-gods in order to derive abominable material benefits. Sometimes such demons ,as material scientists discover lethal weapons. They cannot show their meritorious power by discovering something which can save man from death, but instead they discover weapons which accelerate the process of death. Because Lord Siva is powerful enough to give any benediction, the demon could have asked of him something beneficial for human society, but for his personal interest he asked that anyone whose head would be touched by his hand would at once die. Lord Siva could understand the motive of the demon, and he was very sorry that he had assured him whatever benediction he liked. He would not withdraw his promise, but he was very sorry in his heart that he was to offer him a benediction so dangerous to human society. The demons are described as duskrtinas, miscreants, because although they have brain power and merit, the merit and brain power are used for abominable activities. Therefore Lord ~iva felt sorry within himself. Devotees of the Personality of Godhead, however, never ask any benedition from Lord Visnu or Krsna,and even if they ask for something from the lord it is not at all dangerous for human society.While Sukadeva Gosvami was narrating the history of Vrkasura, he addressed Maharaja Pariksit as Bharata, referring to King Pariksit's birth in a family of devotees. Maharja Pariksit was saved by Lord Krsna, while he was in his mother's womb. Similarly, he could have asked Lord Krsna to save him from the curse of the brahinana, but he did not do so. The demon, however, wanted to become immortal by killing everyone with the touch of his hand. Lord Siva could understand this, but because he had promised, he gave him the benediction. The demon, however, being very sinful, immediately decided that he would use the benediction to kill Lord Siva and take away Gauri, (Parvati) for his personal enjoyment. He immediately decided to place his hand on the head of Lord Siva. Thus Lord Siva was put into an awkward position because he was endangered by his own benediction to a demon. This is also another instance of a materialistic devotee's misusing the power derived from the demigods. Without further deliberation, the demon Vrkasura immediately ap-proached Lord Siva to place his hand on Lord Siva's head. Lord Siva was so afraid of him that his body trembled, and he began to flee from the land to the sky and from the sky to other planets until he reached the limits of the universe, above the higher planetary systems. Lord Siva fled from one place to another, but the demon Vrkasura continued to chase him. The predominating deities of other planets, such as Brahma, Indra and Candra, could not find any way to save Lord Siva from the impending danger. Wherever Lord Siva went, they remained silent. At last Lord Siva approached Lord Visnu, who is situated within this universe in the planet known as Svetadvipa. Svetadvipa is the local Vaikuntha planet beyond the jurisdiction of the influence of external energy. Lord Visnu in His all-pervasive feature remains everywhere, but wherever He remains personally is the Vaikuntha atmosphere. In the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that the Lord remains within the heart of all living entities. As such, the Lord remains within the heart of many low-born living entities, but that does not mean that He is low-born. Wherever He remains is transformed into Vaikuntha. So the planet within this universe known as Svetadvipa is also Vaikunthaloka. It is said in the sastras that residential quarters within the forest are in the mode of goodness, residential quarters in big cities, towns and villages are in the mode of passion, and residential quarters in an atmosphere wherein indulgence in the four sinful activities of illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling predominate are in the mode of ignorance. But residential quarters in a temple of Visnu, the Supreme Lord, are in Vaikuntha. It doesn't matter where the temple is situated, but the temple itself, wherever it may be, is Vaikunta. Similarly, the Svetadvipa planet, although within the material jurisdiction, is Vaikuntha. Lord Siva finally entered Svetadvipa Vaikuntha. In Svetadvipa there are great saintly persons who are completely freed from the envious nature of the material world and are beyond the jurisdiction of the four principles of material activities, namely, religiousness, economic development, sense gratification and liberation. Anyone who enters into that Vaikuntha planet never comes back again to this material world. Lord Narayana is celebrated as a lover of His devotees, and as soon as He understood that Lord Siva was in great danger, He appeared as a brahmacari and personally approached Lord Siva to receive him from a distant place. The Lord appeared as a perfect brahmacari; with a belt around His waist, sacred thread, deerskin, a brahmacari stick and raudra beads. (Raudra beads are different from tulasi beads. Raudra beads are used by the devotees of Lord Siva.) Dressed as a brahmacari; Lord Narayana stood before Lord Siva. The shining effulgence emanating from His body attracted not only Lord Siva but also the demon Vrkasura. Lord Nirayana offered his respects and obeisances unto Vrkasura ,just to attract his sympathy and attention. Thus checking the demon, the Lord addressed him as follows: "My dear son of Sakumi, you appear to be very tired, as if coming from a very distant place. What is your purpose? Why have you come so far? I see that you are very tired and fatigued, so I request you to take a little rest. You should not unnecessarily tire your body. Everyone greatly values his body because with this body only can one fulfill all the desires of ones mind. We should not, therefore, unnecessarily give trouble to this body." The brahmacari addressed Vrkasura as the son of Sakumi, just to convince him that He was known to his father, Sakumi. Vrkasura then took the brahmacari to be someone known to his family, and therefore the brahmacari's sympathetic words appealed to him. Before the demon could argue that he had no time to take rest, the Lord began to inform him about the importance of the body, and the demon was convinced. Any man, especially a demon, takes his body to be very important. Thus Vrkasura became convinced about the importance of his body. Then, just to pacify the demon, the brah macan told him, "My dear lord, if you think that you can disclose the mission for which you have taken the trouble to come here, maybe I shall be able to help you so that your purpose will be easily served." Indirectly, the Lord informed him that because the Lord is the Supreme Brahman, certainly He would be able to adjust the awkward situation created by Lord Siva. The demon was greatly pacified by the sweet words of Lord Narayana in the form of a brahmacari, and at last he disclosed all that had happened in regard to the benediction offered by Lord Siva. The Lord replied to the demon as follows: "I myself cannot believe that Lord Siva has in truth given you such a benediction. As far as I know, Lord Siva is not in a sane mental condition. He had a quarrel with his father-in-law Daksa, and he has been cursed to become a pisdca (ghost). Thus he has become the leader of the ghosts and hobgoblins. Therefore I cannot put any faith in his words. But if you have faith still in the words of Lord Siva, my dear king of the demons, then why don't you make an experiment by putting your hand on your head? If the benediction proves false, then you can immediately kill this liar, Lord Siva, so that in the future he will not dare to give out false benedictions." In this way, by Lord Narayana's sweet words and by the expansion of His superior illusion, the demon became bewildered, and he actually forgot the power of Lord Siva and his benediction. He was thus very easily persuaded to put his hand on his own head. As soon as the demon did that, his head cracked, as if struck by thunder, and he immediately died. The demigods from heaven began to shower flowers on Lord Narayana, praising Him with all glories and all thanksgiving, and they offered their obeisances to the Lord. On the death of Vrkasura, all the denizens in the higher planetary Systems, namely, the demigods, the pitas, the Gandharvas and the inhabitants of Janaloka, began to shower flowers on the Personality of Godhead. Thus Lord Visnu in the form of a brnhmacari released Lord Siva from the impending danger and saved the whole situation. Lord Narayana then informed Lord Siva that this demon, Vrkasura, was killed as the result of his sinful activities. He was especially sinful and offensive because he wanted to experiment on his own master, Lord Siva. Lord Narayana then told Lord Siva, "My dear lord, a person who commits an offense to great souls cannot continue to exist. He becomes vanquished by his own sinful activities, and this is certainly true of this demon, who has committed such an offensive act against you." Thus, by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Narayana, who is transcendental to all material qualities, Lord Siva was saved from being killed by a demon. (Anyone who hears this history with faith and devotion certainly becomes liberated from material entanglement as well as from the clutches of his enemies.) So i hope you all enjoyed this Story,and now understands Why My guru compared this story to comming back as a Mouse Your Humble Servant ,Jaya Kesava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 DEAR MEMBERS I made a Mistake in my Posting,I recopied some parts!This is the Corrected Story, Your servant Jaya Kesava dasa Dear Members and Friends,Please Accept my Most Humble Onbiesances,And Please accept My appolizies for offending anyone on this board! I will explain,what my Gurudeva Has said,And How it was so wrongly Misinterpreted!My Gurudeva Never meant to offend anyone,espesally Lord Siva,Who he, has offten said, is the Best of the Vaisnava Devotees Of Krsna, Or Visnue, or Nayarana,all expanions of Krsna! He has offten said Lord Siva very easly gives Benidictions to His Devotees!If you want a Material Benidiction,Lord Siva Will give You one,With Very Little Prayers to Him,Because He is so Nice! Srila Prabhupada Never Offended Lord Siva ! His Words Were ("....Just like Lord Siva, his devotees are all like that mouse, want something. ......)He never Said anything Bad about Lord Siva,He was Referring to His Devotees,Who Offten Go to Lord Siva for Something,Because Lord Siva Gives things ,Very Easlily,He never said Lord Siva was Bad ,For giving Benidictions easy,it is just a Fact! Accutally he was refering to a Past-time From The Tenth Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam,.Lord Siva is Known for Him Being the Greatest Devotee of Lord Krsna! This is Just a Misunderstandment,and My Guru never ment to Put down Women,He just wanted to Protect Them,and Explain this Protection!As Arjunananda Prabhu has so nicely said,Srila Prabhupada Said ", that if a Vaisnava does not give due respect to Lord Shiva, then that Vaisnava is in great offense. It is also stated by Sri Caitanya that Lord Shiva is Sri Krishna's greatest disciple," and Arjunananda Prabhu also mentioned that we are ofenisive if we say such insults about My Guru,who has spred Krsna Consciousness around the world,Like Lord Caitanya Predicted,"this chanting of Hare Krsna Will soon be heard in every town and village!" This is the Story that Srila Prabhupada Was Reffering too! LORD SIVA AND VRKASURA THis Story is Long,But it Explain Why my Guru compared this Pastime to (comming back as a Mouse) Please Forgive me for any Offenises,You know I have Been Posting Here for awhile ,and Only want to spred Krsna Prema(LOVE OF KRSNA)Please Read,, there is a Surprise at the End,Your Servant Jaya Kesava Dasa After receiving instruction from Narada, the demon Vrkasura went to Kedaranatha. The pilgrimage site of Kedaranatha still exists near Kashmere. It is almost always covered by snow, but for part of the year, during the month of July, it is possible to see the deity, and devotees go there to offer their respects. Kedaranatha is for the devotees of Lord Siva. According to the Vedic principle, when something is offered to the deities to eat, it is offered in a fire. Therefore a fire sacrifice is necessary in all sorts of ceremonies. It is specifically stated in the sastras that gods are to be offered something to eat through the fire. The demon Vrkasura therefore went to Kedaranatha and ignited a sacrificial fire to please Lord Siva. After igniting the fire in the name of Siva, he began to offer his own flesh, by cutting it from his body so as to please Lord Siva. Here is an instance of worship in the mode of ignorance. In the Bhagavad-gita, different types of sacrifice are mentioned. Some sacrifices are in the mode of goodness, some are in the mode of passion, and some are in the mode of ignorance. There are different kinds of tapasya and worship because there are different kinds of people within this world. But the ultimate tapasya, Krsna consciousness, is the topmost yoga and the topmost sacri-fice. As confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita the topmost yoga is to think always of Lord Krsna within the heart, and the topmost sacrifice is to perform the sankertana-yajna.(CHANTING) In the Bhagavad-gita~ it is stated that the worshipers of the demigods have lost their intelligence. As will be revealed later in this chapter. Vrkasura wanted to satisfy Lord Siva for a third-class materialistic objective, which was temporary and without real benefit. The asuras or persons within the mode of ignorance will accept such benedictions from the demigods. In complete contrast to this sacrifice in the modes of ignorance, the arcana-viddhi process for worshiping Lord Visnu or Krsna is very simple. Lord Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita that He accepts from a devotee even a little fruit, a flower or some water, which can be gathered by any person, poor or rich. Of course, those who are rich are not expected to offer only a little water, a little piece of fruit or a little leaf to the Lord. A rich man should offer according to his position, but if the devotee happens to be a very poor man ,the Lord will accept even the most meager offering. The worship of Lord Visnu or! Krsna is very simple and can be executed by anyone in this world. But worship in the mode of ignorance, as exhibited by Vrkasura, is not only very difficult and painful, but it is also a useless waste of time. Therefore Bhagavad-gita says that the worshipers of the demigods are bereft of intelligence; their process of worship is very difficult, and at the same time the result obtained is flickering and temporary. Although Vrkasura continued his sacrifice for six days, he was never the less unable to personally see Lord Siva, which was his objective; he wanted to see him face to face and ask him for a benediction. Here is another contrast between a demon and a devotee. A devotee is confident that whatever he offers to the Deity, in full devotional service is accepted by the Lord, but a demon wants to see his worshipable deity face to face ,so that he can directly take the benediction. A devotee, however, does not worship Visnu or Lord Krsna for any benediction. Therefore a devotee is called akama, free of desire, and a nondevotee is called sarva-kama, or desirous of everything. On the seventh day, the demon Vrkasura decided that he should cut off his head and offer it to satisfy Lord Siva. Thus he took bath in the nearby lake, and without drying his body and hair, he prepared to cut off his head. According to the Vedic system, an animal which is to be offered as a sacrifice has to be ! bathed first, and while the animal is wet he is sacrificed. When the demon was thus preparing to cut off his head, Lord Siva became very compassionate. This compassion, however, is a symptom of the quality of goodness. Lord Siva is called trilinga. Therefore his manifestation of the nature of compassion is a sign of the quality of goodness. This compassion, however, is present in every living entity. The compassion of Lord Siva was aroused because the demon was offering his flesh to the sacrificial fire. This is natural compassion. Even if a common man sees someone preparing to commit suicide, it is his duty to try to save him. He does so automatically. There is no need to appeal to him. Therefore when Lord Siva appeared from the fire to check the demon from suicide, it was not as a very great favor to him. The demon was saved from committing suicide by the touch of Lord Siva; his bodily injuries immediately healed, and his body became as it was before. Then Lord Siva told the demon, "My dear Vrkasura, you do not need to cut off your head. You can ask from me any benediction you like, and I shall fulfill your desire. I do not know why you wanted to cut off your head to satisfy me. I become satisfied even by an offering of a little water." Actually, according to the Vedic process, the Siva linga in the temple or the form of Lord Siva in the temple is worshiped simply by offering Ganges water because it is said that Lord Siva is greatly satisfieded by a very simple process worship. Why then was he so anxious to cut off his head, and why was he taking so much pain by cutting his body to pieces and offering it in the fire? There was no need of such severe penances. Anyway, out of compassion and sympathy, Lord Siva preparedto give him any benediction he liked. When the demon was offered this facility by Lord Siva, he asked for a very fearful and abominable benediction. The demon was very sinful, and sinful persons do not know what sort of benediction should be asked from the deity. Therefore he asked Lord Siva to be benedicted with such power that as soon as he would touch anyone's head, immediately it would crack, and the man would die. The demons are described in the Bhagavad-gita as duskrtinas, or miscreants. Krti means very meritorious, but when dus, is added, it means abominable. Instead of surrendering unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the duskrtinas worship different demi-gods in order to derive abominable material benefits. Sometimes such demons ,as material scientists discover lethal weapons. They cannot show their meritorious power by discovering something which can save man from death, but instead they discover weapons which accelerate the process of death. Because Lord Siva is powerful enough to give any benediction, the demon could have asked of him something beneficial for human society, but for his personal interest he asked that anyone whose head would be touched by his hand would at once die. Lord Siva could understand the motive of the demon, and he was very sorry that he had assured him whatever benediction he liked. He would not withdraw his promise, but he was very sorry in his heart that he was to offer him a benediction so dangerous to human society. The demons are described as duskrtinas, miscreants, because although they have brain power and merit, the merit and brain power are used for abominable activities. Therefore Lord Siva felt sorry within himself. Devotees of the Personality of Godhead, however, never ask any benedition from Lord Visnu or Krsna,and even if they ask for something from the lord it is not at all dangerous for human society.While Sukadeva Gosvami was narrating the history of Vrkasura, he addressed Maharaja Pariksit as Bharata, referring to King Pariksit's birth in a family of devotees. Maharja Pariksit was saved by Lord Krsna, while he was in his mother's womb, Similarly, he could have asked Lord Krsna to save him from the curse of the brahinana, but he did not do so. The demon, however, wanted to become immortal by killing everyone with the touch of his hand. Lord Siva could understand this, but because he had promised, he gave him the benediction. The demon, however, being very sinful, immediately decided that he would use the benediction to kill Lord Siva and take away Gauri, (Parvati) for his personal enjoyment. He immediately decided to place his hand on the head of Lord Siva. Thus Lord Siva was put into an awkward position because he was endangered by his own benediction to a demon. This is also another instance of a materialistic devotee's misusing the power derived from the demigods. Without further deliberation, the demon Vrkasura immediately approached Lord Siva to place his hand on Lord Siva's head. Lord Siva was so afraid of him that his body trembled, and he began to flee from the land to the sky and from the sky to other planets until he reached the limits of the universe, above the higher planetary systems. Lord Siva fled from one place to another, but the demon Vrkasura continued to chase him. The predominating deities of other planets, such as Brahma, Indra and Candra, could not find any way to save Lord Siva from the impending danger. Wherever Lord Siva went, they remained silent. At last Lord Siva approached Lord Visnu, who is situated within this universe in the planet known as Svetadvipa. Svetadvipa is the local Vaikuntha planet beyond the jurisdiction of the influence of external energy. Lord Visnu in His all-pervasive feature remains everywhere, but wherever He remains personally is the Vaikuntha atmosphere. In the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that the Lord remains within the heart of all living entities. As such, the Lord remains within the heart of many low-born living entities, but that does not mean that He is low-born. Wherever He remains is transformed into Vaikuntha. So the planet within this universe known as Svetadvipa is also Vaikunthaloka. It is said in the sastras that residential quarters within the forest are in the mode of goodness, residential quarters in big cities, towns and villages are in the mode of passion, and residential quarters in an atmosphere wherein indulgence in the four sinful activities of illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling predominate are in the mode of ignorance. But residential quarters in a temple of Visnu, the Supreme Lord, are in Vaikuntha. It doesn't matter where the temple is situated, but the temple itself, wherever it may be, is Vaikunta. Similarly, the Svetadvipa planet, although within the material jurisdiction, is Vaikuntha. Lord Siva finally entered Svetadvipa Vaikuntha. In Svetadvipa there are great saintly persons who are completely freed from the envious nature of the material world and are beyond the jurisdiction of the four principles of material activities, namely, religiousness, economic development, sense gratification and liberation. Anyone who enters into that Vaikuntha planet never comes back again to this material world. Lord Narayana is celebrated as a lover of His devotees, and as soon as He understood that Lord Siva was in great danger, He appeared as a brahmacari and personally approached Lord Siva to receive him from a distant place. The Lord appeared as a perfect brahmacari; with a belt around His waist, sacred thread, deerskin, a brahmacari stick and raudra beads. (Raudra beads are different from tulasi beads. Raudra beads are used by the devotees of Lord Siva.) Dressed as a brahmacari; Lord Narayana stood before Lord Siva. The shining effulgence emanating from His body attracted not only Lord Siva but also the demon Vrkasura. Lord Nirayana offered his respects and obeisances unto Vrkasura ,just to attract his sympathy and attention. Thus checking the demon, the Lord addressed him as follows: "My dear son of Sakumi, you appear to be very tired, as if coming from a very distant place. What is your purpose? Why have you come so far? I see that you are very tired and fatigued, so I request you to take a little rest. You should not unnecessarily tire your body. Everyone greatly values his body because with this body only can one fulfill all the desires of ones mind. We should not, therefore, unnecessarily give trouble to this body." The brahmacari addressed Vrkasura as the son of Sakumi, just to convince him that He was known to his father, Sakumi. Vrkasura then took the brahmacari to be someone known to his family, and therefore the brahmacari's sympathetic words appealed to him. Before the demon could argue that he had no time to take rest, the Lord began to inform him about the importance of the body, and the demon was convinced. Any man, especially a demon, takes his body to be very important. Thus Vrkasura became convinced about the importance of his body. Then, just to pacify the demon, the brahmacari told him, "My dear lord, if you think that you can disclose the mission for which you have taken the trouble to come here, maybe I shall be able to help you so that your purpose will be easily served." Indirectly, the Lord informed him that because the Lord is the Supreme Brahman, certainly He would be able to adjust the awkward situation created by Lord Siva. The demon was greatly pacified by the sweet words of Lord Narayana in the form of a brahmacari, and at last he disclosed all that had happened in regard to the benediction offered by Lord Siva. The Lord replied to the demon as follows: "I myself cannot believe that Lord Siva has in truth given you such a benediction. As far as I know, Lord Siva is not in a sane mental condition. He had a quarrel with his father-in-law Daksa, and he has been cursed to become a pisdca (ghost). Thus he has become the leader of the ghosts and hobgoblins. Therefore I cannot put any faith in his words. But if you have faith still in the words of Lord Siva, my dear king of the demons, then why don't you make an experiment by putting your hand on your head? If the benediction proves false, then you can immediately kill this liar, Lord Siva, so that in the future he will not dare to give out false benedictions." In this way, by Lord Narayana's sweet words and by the expansion of His superior illusion, the demon became bewildered, and he actually forgot the power of Lord Siva and his benediction. He was thus very easily persuaded to put his hand on his own head. As soon as the demon did that, his head cracked, as if struck by thunder, and he immediately died. The demigods from heaven began to shower flowers on Lord Narayana, praising Him with all glories and all thanksgiving, and they offered their obeisances to the Lord. On the death of Vrkasura, all the denizens in the higher planetary Systems, namely, the demigods, the pitas, the Gandharvas and the inhabitants of Janaloka, began to shower flowers on the Personality of Godhead. Thus Lord Visnu in the form of a brnhmacari released Lord Siva from the impending danger and saved the whole situation. Lord Narayana then informed Lord Siva that this demon, Vrkasura, was killed as the result of his sinful activities. He was especially sinful and offensive because he wanted to experiment on his own master, Lord Siva. Lord Narayana then told Lord Siva, "My dear lord, a person who commits an offense to great souls cannot continue to exist. He becomes vanquished by his own sinful activities, and this is certainly true of this demon, who has committed such an offensive act against you." Thus, by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Narayana, who is transcendental to all material qualities, Lord Siva was saved from being killed by a demon. (Anyone who hears this history with faith and devotion certainly becomes liberated from material entanglement ,as well as from the clutches of his enemies.) So i hope you all enjoyed this Story,and now understands mWhy My guru compared this story to comming back as a Mouse Your Humble Servant ,Jaya Kesava Dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Hari Om! All glories to Gopishvara Mahadeva Bhagavan Shankarji! The Rasik Saint, an intimate Associate of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Roopa had written the following description in his 'Devotional Play - 'Daana Keli Kaumudi', a blissful Pastime of toll collection from the blessed Gopis on the paths of Vrindavana forest by the mischievous Cowherd Lord, Beloved Krishna: Radha is compared to Shiva by Krishna: Krishna: O Radhe! You keep making sly glances. You have spoken after my own heart. Now listen to me: You have called me a snake, well (with a thrill), aprauDha-dvija-rAja-rAjad-alikA labdhA vibhUtiM rucAM navyAm Atmani kRSNa-vartma-vilasad-dRSTir vizAkhAJcitA | kandarpasya vidagdhatAM vidadhatI netrAJcalasya tviSA tvaM rAdhe ziva-mUrtir ity urasi mAM bhogIndram aGgIkuru ||43|| Radhe! Your body is auspicious, like that of Shiva: He has the quarter-moon on his forehead, just as you have a moon-shaped tilak mark there; Shiva's body is covered with new ashes (vibhUti), while your body is also rich with fresh beauty; Shiva has a glance of fire, while your eyes are always looking for Krishna; Shiva is always accompanied by Visakha (Karttikeya), and you are always accompanied by Visakha; Shiva burned Kamadeva to ashes with his glance, while you show your knowledge of all the erotic wiles with yours: so just as Shiva keeps a great snake on his chest, give me, the supreme enjoyer, a place on yours. (translated by Jagadananda dasa) ----- A few more verses from 'Dana Keli Kaumudi' for remembering Lord Shiva: Lord Krishna says to Radika: tuha NiSevia uNa rAhi tthaNa-sambhuM moTTiAbalI suddhA | hariNo viharai hiae tuha kahaNijjo kahaM mahimA ||92|| O Radhe! This necklace became purified by serving the 'Shiva lingas' of your breasts and thus found a place over Krishna's heart. Can anyone sufficiently describe your glories? -------- Krishna again relates the Gopis and Radha to five-faced Shiva: kAmaH kAñcid avApya pañcamukhas tIvrAM vyathAm ugrataH saumyAM pañca-mukhIM bhajan dhruvam imAM labdhoru-vidyaH kRtI | bhrU-cApeSu samaM kaTAkSa-vizikhAn pañcArpayan pañcasu kruddhaH pañca-mukhogra-vikramam asau mAM hantum udyacchate ||60|| When Cupid was given a terrible pain by the angry 'five-faced Shiva', he fled from that danger to take shelter of 'these five charming faces' (Radha, Lalita, Vishakha, Chitra, Champakalata) where he now demonstrates his broad learning and expertise. By placing his famous five arrows on the five bowstrings of their eyebrows, and shooting their sidelong glances, he is taking steps to retaliate by killing me, though I am more valorous or ferocious than either Shiva or the lion. --------- Radhika compares Krishna to Shiva:: vakras tridhA tvam Adau madhye cAnte ca vaMzikA-rasika | kala-kRta-jagatI-pralayo vakrezvara eva devo'si ||86|| When you play your flute, you bend in three places -- bent in the beginning, bent in the middle and bent in the end! Your flute playing results in universal destruction, "so you must be Shiva himself, known as Vakresvara". Krishna compares Radha to the sage Ashtavakra (Ashtavakra's story is told in the Mahabharata, Vana-parva, 131. He was a devotee of Vakresvara Shiva): vAci kace bhruvi dRSTau smite prayANe'vaguNThe hRdi ca | tvAm ity aSTasu vakrAm aSTAvakrAyitAM vande ||87|| You are crooked in eight places: your words, your hair, your eyebrows, your eyes, your smile and your walk, your veil and your heart! So I think that I had better bow down because you have become the sage known as Ashtavakra. ('Dana Keli Kaumudi'- translated by Sri Jagadananda dasa) --------- Jaya Sri Radhey! , pyari_h <no_reply> wrote: > Namaste all. > > Thanks to Uma ji and Angela for their efforts in keeping the > contoversial un-moderated group messages open to discussion just as > this.... > > "....Just like Lord Siva, his devotees are all like > that mouse, want something. ...... > This uttering is blasphemy and unsaintly, not > befitting in the discourse of a spiritual teacher." > > I like to repost my message on Lord Siva as an apology from the > devotees of Lord Radha Krishna. > > Om Namah Sivayah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Dear All One of the unique strengths of Sanatana Dharma is that each and every sadhak is afforded respect because they are all sadhaks, no matter what path or what level they are. In our satsangh, it is this respect that is the strength and basis of our family. Human beings in their limited knowledge, and such ego-centered limitations like attachments, biases, identifications etc, have forgotten this essencial element of this path. Groups of devotees, drunk with the love for their ishta devata, remains lost in no one other than their own. Each write reams prasing their own love, often projecting a view that there is no one other than theirs, and certainly the most superior of all. Some of this is of course a natural force of nature - while there are millions of vehicles available, we can only drive one car at a time!!!! However even among Gurus, many claim their path is the best, the fastest, the truest, the easiest, or the most important. Some, in their emotional fervour forget the very basis of their dharma is that all is the manifestaion of the ONE. When we look at texts in isolation, it is not unlikely to find writings that compare various devatas. Every group can quote enough texts showing that their ishata devata is superior to the others!! As a result the irony is, divisions have become the order of the things in a faith where Unity is the essence. While many have had experiences of such extreme attitudes specially among followers of the ISKON group, our forum has been blessed by the presence of Krishna bhaktas who have been able to place their love in perspective. It has been my privilege to read and learn from postings of lovers of Krishan bhagwan, (pyari, tulsi, arjunanada, ashoka etc) in our satsangh, who do not fall prey to such limitations. "The world is as we are" says one of my Gurus. The more we apply/walk our talk, the more authentic an environment we can create. And, if our motivation is anything other than creating a harmonious environment, then perhaps it is time to stop and take stock of our goals and check whether we are falling prey to maya - the ever-stumbling block on our journey. _/\_ Tat twam asi Uma , "omd01788@w..." <omd01788@w...> wrote: > Dear Members and Friends, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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