Power of Sound ))))))))))))))

[Guest guest]

This reminded me of an page "power of gayatri mantra"

(http://members.rediff.com/akipeed/gayatri.htm)

 

Relevant Excerpts from that page:

=====

There is a Zen story about a poor man walking through the woods reflecting upon

his many troubles. He stopped to rest against a tree, a magical tree that would

instantly grant the wishes of anyone who came in contact with it. He realised he

was thirsty and wished for a drink. Instantly a cup of cool water was in his

hand. Shocked, he looked at the water, he decided it was safe and drank it. He

then realised he was hungry and wished he had something to eat. A meal appeared

before him. "My wishes are being granted," he thought in disbelief. "Well, then

I wish for a beautiful home of my own," he said out loud. The home appeared in

the meadow before him. A huge smile crossed his face as he wished for servants

to take care of the house. When they appeared he realised he had somehow been

blessed with an incredible power and he wished for a beautiful, loving,

intelligent woman to share his good fortune. "Wait a minute, this is

ridiculous," said the man to the woman. "I'm not this lucky.

This can't happen to me." As he spoke...everything disappeared. He shook his

head and said, "I knew it," then walked away thinking about his many troubles.

 

There is a great truth hidden behind this simple Zen story. Our mind is like

this magical tree. "Whatever the mind conceives and believes, it achieves."

Since Vedic times, this universal truth has been understood by our rishis.

Recitation of mantras is one of the tools for programming our unconscious minds.

But alas, mantras are like the magical tree mentioned in the zen story narrated

earlier. Mantras work for those who believe in their power.

=====

 

dr_nachiketa <no_reply> wrote:

[Guest guest]

Dear Respected Dr_Nachiketa:

 

Everybody has a right to their opinion until they realize

forthemselves. Any realization cannot happen without understanding,

regardless of the subject matter.

 

You Said:

 

> I agree that Brahmins (means those who are duty bound to teach

> spirituality to others) must know the meaning before they recite

> shlokas. BUT a common person even without knowing the meaning, if

> recites a mantra or Shloka (all shlokas too have some Beej mantras

in

> them), it certainly has effect on his Chitta (Sub-consc)

>

 

May be rather than saying "brahma" we shoould only start using the

sanskrit root verb "bR^iH" (pronounced as bhruH), which will sound

like a barking of dogs.

 

The object of any "saadhana" is to elevate from lower level to attain

higher level. Get promoted by the acquisition of skill and knowledge.

 

A total blind faith to rituals was cleverly used by British to negate

our cultural values and introduce the education that created a whole

generation of technicians and scientists. Therefore propagating

ignorance should always be the first order of business.

 

adnyan hR^idayagr.nthi naasho mokshaada iti smR^ita ||

 

Meaning - Thus amputating the glands that screed the ignorance leads

to moksha.

 

Having said all that, You have every right to do whatever you think

is correct. May be that is not your idea of "saadhana".

 

I wish you well in you pursuits.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

, dr_nachiketa <no_reply> wrote:

[Guest guest]

Power of Gayatri Mantra in the a is in the "REALIZATION" of it's

significance.

 

Sound from out-side has very little significance.

 

Everyone knows the four kinds of mantra japa saadhana. shabdic,

vachic, maanasiika and upaa.nsu. The higher Archie is in the reverse

order (4->, 3->, 2-> & 1). If Sound vibration was supposed to be

important than it would as been 1-> 2-> 3-> & 4.

 

Kabir tells us -

 

maalaa pherata juga gayaa, gayaa na manakaa phera |

maNakaa-maNakaa chhoDade manakaa maNakaa phera ||

 

Meaning - Whole life time has gone in to performing the malaa japa.

Leave that alone, instead recite the meaning as understood by your

mind and keep on thinking about it.

 

Pata~njala muni tellis tajapatadastabhaavanam || 1.28 ||

this means that the yogasutra advises and recommends the

understanding the "bhavanaa" expressed in the mantra not the

mechanical recitation.

 

If these folks do not mean anything to you, then go ahead and perform

the academic exercise of recitation. And weight for the lightening

of realization to strike.

 

Ishavaasya upaniShad tell us the ignorance will definetly lead you to

darkest of dark corners. a.ndh.n tamah pravishnti

ye.avidyaamupaasate || iiSh. 9 ||

 

When Buddha said "bddham saraNa.m gacchhami". buddha is referring to

knowledge, that is what one has to surrender to, which is from within

through realization.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

[Guest guest]

Dr Yadu,

 

 

I am trying to find the connection between the posting you are

replying to and your reply....well ... realization comes through

practice of .

 

I think a brahmin is just another name for a spiritual person. As a

westerner i have no respect for the system of castes and i do not

believe in brahmins. I do have a great deal of respect for wise and

great souls though, even if they belong to the untouchables.... I am

just trying to say that only superficial people, would give authority

to a person just due to its caste. Its funny, i thought that castes

dont exist in modern india and yet, it still is a subject.

 

The matter of mantra cannot be argued, we all know the effects of

mantra through our sadhna. Knowing the meaning is helpful but does

not affect in any way the effectivity of the mantra. Unless your

daily japa has proved something different, which i welcome you to

share as your spiritual experience with us.

 

I agree that the faith in the mantra does multiply its effectivity

because faith is associated with strong pranic waves and thought

streams, which can intensify the aura and change the vibrations of a

person.

 

 

I keep reading about the barking dogs....being unable to find the

wisdom in it..... brahma is a name of god, if i were you i wouldnt

try to invoke the etheric entity in myself coz you might perceive a

dog...

 

Attaining higher level makes a person tolerant and compassionate, not

disrespectful and ironic.

 

 

Noone talked about blind faith in rituals, we were just discussing

about whether it makes a spiritual difference to know the meaning of

not. It makes no difference.

 

I have met poweful yogis who have had a very poor education and

cannot write as "academically" as we do. However their spiritual

powers were indescribably great. If only moksha could be attained

through reading of books and education...

[Guest guest]

One can define "mantra" as "mantraaH mananaata" - One that is

practiced with manana. Manana is definetly not repeation of a phrase

but signifies its understanding.

 

It can also be defined as "mananaata traayata iti mantraH"

 

Meaning - the one that keeps you afloat (traayata).

 

My disagreement is only limited to and the attitude of promoting

ignorance and frustration pertains to insistence of the same.

 

This is exactly turns blind leading blind. Bust after all it is an

individual choice.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

 

, "de_spell_2000" <oiokasti@h...>

wrote:

> Dr Yadu,

>

>

> I am trying to find the connection between the posting you are

> replying to and your reply....well ... realization comes through

> practice of .

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Members ,There is So much talk about Mantras,In this Degraged age of

Kaliyuga,Krsna Has made it Very Simple to Gain Love of God(Krsna prema)By

his incarnation of Krsna,Playing the Part of His own Devotee! Lord Caitanya

Appeared 500 Years Ago,and Gave This Maha Mantra to us,Because in this

Age,There Is no other Way of Practice of Yoga! the Maha Mantra is Very

Simple,Its the Names of God,And ( Hare),is like a Calling To God,Like a

Child Calling To His Mother,So Please Chant ,(Hare Krsna,Hare Krsna,Krsna

Krsna,Hare Hare,Hare Rama Hare Rama,Rama Rama Hare Hare)In this Degraded age

of Kali,There is No other Way,There is No Other Way,There is No other

Way,Thank to Chant the Main Names of God,Krsna and Rama! When We chant these

Names,The sound Vibration is Non different than God Himself!When We say

Krsna,Krsna is There,In sound,And Krsna is Absolute So His Name is Non

different Than Himself Personally,So Krsna is Dancing on Your toung!Chant

Hare Krsna And Be Happy Your Servant,Jaya Kesava Dasa

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

"ymoharir" <ymoharir

Re: Power of Sound ))))))))))))))

Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:45:09 -0000

 

Power of Gayatri Mantra in the a is in the "REALIZATION" of it's

significance.

[Guest guest]

Thanks dear de-spell. I enjoyed your post which reflected the wisdom attained

at such a young age. Dear Pradeep's story elaborated that chanting of Mantras

even without knowing their full strength/meaning. No body has denied that we

should chant mantra knowing its meaning/significance, but it is a Truth that

Mantras chanted do have effect on our self whether we know the meaning or not.

Chanting with faith and understanding will have many fold effect though.

 

We can prove this by one experiment. Take a child of 7-10 years who does not

know English. Ask the child to repeat the word "CUP" or "Triumph" continuously.

The child after some time will become sleepy, because these words are Hypnotic

and they effect the sub-cons whether we know the meaning or not. Same is the

case with Tantric Beeja Mantras. Take for example beeja mantra Hu(m) or

Krin(g) or Kling. They have no literal meaning but have tremendous powers if

chanted regularly.

 

Sound is present at four levels. Vaikhary, Pashyanti, Madhyama and Para.

Each stage has its own significance.

 

I just supplemented the information given by Dr. Yadu, who refused to gulp

down the truth of Power of Sound. Truth does not need acceptance. it remains

truth eventhough.

 

You are right about Brahmins. In fact here when we say Brahmin, it does not

mean Brahmin by caste but Brahmin as a guru to teach spirituality to masses, and

he can be of any caste and creed.

 

My dear dr.Yadu has also written about Brahma and dog. If it was a joke then

it was certainly not in a good taste. Dr. Yadu further wrote:-

> Having said all that, You have every right to do whatever you think

> is correct. May be that is not your idea of "saadhana".

>

> I wish you well in you pursuits.

>

> Regards,

>

> Dr. Yadu

 

with most respect for Dr. Yadu I would say that Scriptures work as a double

edged sword. They can be used to understand the glimpses of Truth behind them

and they can also be used to Prove Others Wrong.

 

Hindu scriptures are great and excellent but they are not the only truths in

the world. There are people out there who without studying Hindu scriptures

have attained the truth. Jesus Christ, Buddha, Mohamed,kabir, Jalaluddin Rumi

and hundered others have realised the truth without reading Hindu scriputres.

 

spiritual pride is perhaps our biggest hurdle in the path of sadhna. What I

KNOW IS THE ONLY TRUTH - is more dangerous than any other hurdle on the path of

sadhna.

 

If we keep our (mind)windows open and accept others ideas too, perhaps we

are more on the path of sadhna than others.

 

 

with regards and love to all

 

nachiketa

[Guest guest]

You Said:

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No body has denied that we should chant mantra knowing its meaning /

significance, but it is a Truth that Mantras chanted do have effect

on our self whether we know the meaning or not. Chanting with faith

and understanding will have many fold effect though.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

Apparently you are not reading my posts, otherwise you would have not

made such a statement. It is also clear that you have no regard or a

clue for "patan~jla muni's Yoga Shastra".

 

More Power to You.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

, because these words are Hypnotic and they effect the sub-cons

whether we know the meaning or not. Same is the case with Tantric

Beeja Mantras. Take for example beeja mantra Hu(m) or Krin(g) or

Kling. They have no literal meaning but have tremendous powers if

chanted regularly.

 

Sound is present

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

On hand you seem to be interested in doing mantra saadhana and have

no desire in understanding the same.

 

I will give you an example:

 

Om SahaantiH Om SahaantiH Om SahaantiH

 

is always recited before undertaking taking many rituals and we

conclude them by reciting Om SahaantiH Om SahaantiH Om SahaantiH; as

well.

 

However, if you just keep on repeating Shanti Shanti shanti shanti

shnati shanty …… … … … … … … . And if a woman named "Shanti" happens

to hear this may actually come to see you. This will then most

definitely disturb the "shanti (PEACE)" you may be aspiring for,

whether you are married or not. However, by corollary, if you were

really calling for the female named "Shanti" than your "saadhana" was

successful, not otherwise it will be in vain and drive you insane.

 

A brief note on the significance of beeja mantra -

 

Where do you get these ideas that they do not have meaning or

significance? This is precisely that cause of my frustration that we

do not know, have desire to know but want to propagate ignorance at

every step of the way.

 

I do have extensive information of various biija mantra as well, but

just for the record I will jive an example of "humklim"

and "krrim" -

 

ha – shiva biija

uu – bhairava biija

bindu – Concentration and Purpose is duHkha haraNa

 

The sum of above becomes "hU.m"; which express vriira bhaava, Energy

and krodha as well.

 

Monica Sales, a tennis Player has use this "hU.m" in her American

Express commercial.

 

ka – kR^iShNa or kama or kaalii biija

la – iindra biija

ii – Satisfaction

bindu - Concentration and Purpose is duHkha haraNa

 

The Sum of the above becomes "kli.m"

 

 

ka – kR^iShNa or kama or kaalii biija

ra – brahma with agani biija

ii – mahaamaaya

bindu - Concentration and Purpose is duHkha haraNa

 

The sum of the above becomes "krii.m"

 

There is shloka in bR^ihad-gandharvatantra –

 

 

shR^uNu devi pravixyaami biijaa.m devaruupataam |

mantroccaaraNamaatreNa devaruupa.m prjaayate |

 

Meaning – Devi paravati let me tell you the form of "BIIJA DEVATAA".

Pronunciation of Bijja ma.ntara expresses the devata proliferation.

 

 

You Said:

##################

My dear dr.Yadu has also written about Brahma and dog. If it was a

joke then it was certainly not in a good taste.

 

##################

 

Please read the post correctly or may be I should have explained in

more details. The word bramha, Brahman, brahmaNa are all derived

from the root Sankrit verb "bR^ih" (pronounced as bruh). Therefore

the root need to be combined with other pratyaya to form a proper

sandhi to become the correct word one is trying to express. Just

mechanical recitation of "bruh" will sound like barking dogs.

 

You are absolutely correct that hundreds of other have

become "realized" without reading the Hindu Scriptures. But remember

the key word id their own realization that is "UNDERSTANDING"

and "KNOWLEDGE" and not the mechanical recitation that you are trying

to propogate.

 

This is my last post on this subject.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

[Guest guest]

Dear respected Dr.Yadu

 

You wrote "and not the mechanical recitation that you are trying

to propogate."

 

NO I am not propagating recitation without understanding. I just

wished to say that for a beginner it is beneficial to recite a

Mantra even without fully understanding its meaning and i m not

wrong here.

 

Shri Vishnu-Devananda the great disciple of Swami Sivananda has

confirmed this when he wrote in Mantra and Meditation " The Mantra

shuold be recited with faith devotion and understanding. But if a

mantra is recited without fully knowing the meaning, it will still

have positive effect, although slower, due to sheer vibrational

energies of a Mantra".

 

Mantras have great powers in them and the moment we start chanting

them, they start working on our sub-cons. A moment comes when its

meaning become clear to the sadhaka. In the end even the meaning

vanishes and the truth reveals itself. Here faith and devotion is

more important than understanding the literal part of it.

 

You have very rightly given out the meaning of Beeja Mantras, but

they are not the meanings, but an understanding. Like in HUM you

have written Ha = Siva beeja...so where is the meaning in it ? You

gave another explanation to Ha.

 

You have also written " This is precisely that cause of my

frustration that we > do not know, have desire to know but want to

propagate ignorance at

> every step of the way."

 

If you become frustrated than you are far away from being a real

sadhaka. Real sadhaka do not frustrate. They re-cast their

equations and find the balance between the truth realised by them,

and the truth realised by others.

 

"What I know is Knowledge and what others know is Ignorance" is a

perfect example of Spiritual Pride.

 

Dr. Yadu further wrote " On hand you seem to be interested in doing

mantra saadhana and have

> no desire in understanding the same.It is also clear that you have

no regard or a

> clue for "patan~jla muni's Yoga Shastra"."

 

What do you know about me ? I have not learnt Mantras from

books. I have seen and experienced the power of Mantras myself.

What ever i have written is from my Direct Experience. I have never

used crutches of scriptures to prove myself right. Now I cant have

a "Shastrathha" on Patanjali yoga sutras because i do not claim to be

a pundit like you. But i m not that ignorant as you ignorantly tried

to paint me. (smiles)

 

Yes i agree you are very knowledgable and learned person and i

have to learn a lot from you, because i am still a student not a

teacher like you. Please continue guiding us, and where ever I find

i may suppliment/correct/clarify, i will not hesitate.

 

Dr.Yadu in the end you wrote "This is my last post on the subject"

 

Oh come-on i know you are not a coward so you will not run away

from doing your duty. The positive points of your messages have been

well taken by us and we look forward to hear again from you.

 

 

Your humble servant

 

nachiketa