SWAMI RAMDAS

[Guest guest]

Devotee: Will you speak about attachment to the body?

Papa: To be attached to the body means, to be body-conscious. When

death approaches, you are terribly upset. You think you are the body

and with the death of the body you pass away. That is the mistake you

make. You must get rid of this fear. Knowing that the body is

perishable, you must let it go. Fear of death disappears with the

realization of God. Then you are utterly free and happy in all

conditions.

Of course, you have to take care of the body. It is necessary for

realizing God; after realization you keep it fit and healthy in order

to serve humanity, not out of attachment for it. You groom your horse

and take good care of it, because it is a horse on which you ride. If

it is kept in a sound condition, it will serve you; otherwise, it

will be useless.

Eighty-four lakhs of lower lives, they say, you have taken before you

got the human body. After several lives in the human body itself you

get the inner awakening, and through surrender to God you attain the

goal. There are millions and millions who are not eager to follow the

path of Truth. They spend their lives only in acquiring and

possessing things, and at last go away leaving everything behind.

Then at the end one wakes up and says: "Oh! I wasted my life in

pursuing transitory objects!"

Papa: Man strives to get more wealth and does many acts of sin,

falsehood, deceit, etc. What happens? To get wealth is worry. Not to

have it is worry. When you possess wealth you want still more of it.

You cannot satisfy your desire. The more you try to satisfy it, the

more intense it grows. You crave for more and more.

But you find full satisfaction, contentment and peace, and are happy

in all situations when you have found God within you. Then only you

find real peace. All your desires then vanish. You are full of

happiness within yourself, and do not depend for it upon anything

outside. God is all bliss and peace. You realize a state which knows

no change.

Devotee: Will you kindly advise us how to control desires?

Papa: Desire is the longing to enjoy pleasures of the senses. We have

five senses. We want to see beautiful things, not ugly ones. We want

to hear sweet voices, not harsh ones. We want to smell fragrant

things, not foul matter. We want to taste sweet food or drink, not

bitter ones. We want to touch smooth things, not hard ones. These are

called desires to enjoy the pleasures of seeing, hearing, smelling,

tasting and touching. They keep our mind distracted. If these desires

are substituted by the one desire for God, then that desire will be

fulfilled by realizing God.

If the senses are under control we shall have neither exultation nor

depression, neither like nor dislike. When the mind is with God we

are not concerned with the objects of the senses. All objects will be

the same to us. Our longing for God will make us oblivious of the

circumstances and keep us happy in every situation.

We have to control our desires not by reasoning but by diverting the

mind towards God. If God is our sole aim and if we have a strong urge

to realize Him, other things do not matter. Our mind will not easily

get disturbed. Peace you can get, only by attuning your mind with

God, by remembering God through the utterance of the Name. The Name

is to be uttered in a spirit of dispassion towards objects of the

senses. When you do this, your mind easily turns towards God. God

stands for absolute peace. When you attune the mind with God who is

peace, you realize absolute peace. People ask, "What do you get by

realizing God?" You get eternal peace and bliss. You are in a state

of bliss in all conditions and circumstances, because it comes from

the source of your being. The fountain of joy will open in you and

you will be flooded with it. In that state of happiness you work in

the world and that will be for the good of all. Ramdas was put into

all sorts of adverse and uncomfortable situations; still he was

happy, because of inner peace and joy.

Desire is a great force in us. If we divert it into the right

channel, it will take us to the source of all bliss and peace.

Devotee: All sorts of subtle desires persist in us.

Papa: The greatest difficulty of a Sadhaka is to control the sense of

taste. If he controls the taste he has controlled all the other

senses. Get the taste of Ram Nam. Then you do not mind what sort of

things you get, tasteful or otherwise. Whatever you get, you will

accept. You do not crave for any particular sort of food, because the

Name is sweeter than nectar. But that cannot easily come. That is the

difficulty. If you say desires must go before you get it, it is like

putting the cart before the horse. It is like the story of a mad man.

The doctor says the madness will go only if he marries: but the

marriage can take place only after the madness goes. What do you do

in a case like that? Pray to God for His grace. Then He will turn

your mind towards Him and give you the aspiration to realize Him.

Then all other desires will be controlled automatically. Your mind

will not run towards objects of the senses; it will be concentrated

upon God. So ask for God's grace. That is the only way.

Devotee: So prayer must be there. Is it not, Papa?

Papa: Prayer should come from the heart. You must feel the need for

God. People do not want to get out of the world. Even when they are

in utter misery, they do not pray to Him. Therefore, that urge to

pray should also come from God. Contact of saints will do. But they

do not believe in contact of saints. God from within should create in

them the aspiration for Him. After grace comes, you go on the path of

God-realization without looking this side or that. Straight you go.

The consciousness that His power is acting in you should be there.

Then you are a real Sadhaka. You will find that the path itself is

the goal. You step on the path and you are at the goal and Sadhana

becomes blissful.

Devotee: What are the easy stages on the path towards the knowledge

of the Atman?

Papa: No stages, but one way. Chant the Name of God, the Name of the

Atman. Keep it up continuously. Then you will know that you are the

Atman or Self.

Devotee: Papa said the other day that remembrance of God is possible

only when we receive God's grace.

Papa: When you repeat the Name you feel that you are doing it by His

grace. Grace is always there. You only become aware of the grace.

That awareness itself is grace. Grace is pouring on you day and

night. When you become aware of it, you think grace has come to you

and you take His Name. Afterwards it grows in intensity day by day.

Then your mind ceases to waver. When Ramdas started Ram Nam in 1922,

he began to feel that some mysterious power within him was making him

repeat the Name. And he became more and more conscious of that power

as days passed. The ego diminished gradually and God took full

possession of him.

Devotee: Was Papa doing silent repetition or chanting aloud?

Papa: Ramdas was singing Ram Nam to himself in a low tune, and he was

listening to the sound coming out of the chanting. That gave him

concentration of mind. He had also a keen longing for God. His whole

attention was on the sound of the Name. He knew the sound would lead

him to God. These two things - faith and longing - made him enjoy the

sweetness. The mind was full of the sound as well as the longing for

God. He had no desires or attractions for the things of the world. He

used to go into solitude and all day and night he was repeating the

Name. The mind got absorbed, losing consciousness of the body. This

itself was meditation; this itself was Samadhi. He was experiencing

an ecstasy which was unspeakable