THE VAIN TORTOISE(it is God who is the doer)

[Guest guest]

THE VAIN TORTOISE

Once there were two cranes and a little tortoise who lived by a lake

and became fast friends. They played together all day long, sunning

themselves on the sand and swimming in the lake. But that year there

was a drought. In the whole year, not a single drop of rain fell! All

the rivers dried up, and the land cracked into fissures. Of course,

the little lake could not escape the same fate. The three friends did

not know what to do, and sighed all day. One day, the two cranes

took to the air to see how things were, and came back in the evening

saying: "Brother Tortoise, everyone is moving to the Heavenly Lake. I

think we had better move too. If we stay here we shall die of hunger

and thirst."

The tortoise shut his little eyes, as small as green beans, and

wept. "Oh, you can fly or hurry as fast as you want, and go to the

Heavenly Lake. But I can neither fly nor walk fast. Within three days

men will be able to pick up my empty shell! I would never have

thought that you would leave me behind, when we have been friends for

so long." The tortoise wept so pitiably that the cranes, unable to

hold back their own tears, did not have the heart to leave him

behind. So they decided to stay back themselves for the time being.

Perhaps, after all, the rain would come in a few days!

But the weather promised no change. The cranes said again they

thought they must go. The tortoise pleaded with them, saying, "We

have been friends for so long! Can't you think of a way to take me

along?" They put their heads together. After some time they

said, "Brother Tortoise, we have a plan. We'll hold two ends of a

stick in our beaks, and you can hang on to the middle. Then we can

fly, carrying you between us. What do you think of the idea?" The

little tortoise was so happy that he nearly hopped. "Yes, yes! That's

a fine idea! Let's start at once!" The cranes were very pleased, too,

but they had to give him a warning. "You must be very careful not to

open your mouth on the way.Of course not. I'll keep it shut tight,

even if someone tries to prise it open with a knife."

So early next morning, the cranes held the two ends of the stick and

the tortoise gripped the middle in his jaws. They flew and flew and

flew, over dark forests, glittering snow-covered mountains, temples

with golden tiles and vast grasslands. Down on the earth, some

people, painfully trying to irrigate their fields, pointed to them

and said: "Look, what a clever tortoise he is! He holds the stick in

his jaws and lets the cranes carry him." The cranes went on as if

they had heard nothing, but the tortoise glowed with pride. Everyone

was praising him! Ha, ha!!

They flew on and on. Children, herding cattle on the mountain,

shouted at them: "Look, how clever the cranes are! They are carrying

the tortoise to the very sky." The cranes paid no attention to it but

concentrated on flying, but the tortoise felt very hurt. "Stupid

fools! Saying that it is the cranes that are carrying me! Why, it was

I who really inspired this plan! I must let them know which of us is

the cleverer." So with all his might he began to shout, "Hey! …" But

as soon as he opened his mouth, he fell head downward and tail up,

went straight down, down, down….

Humble seekers carry on their service knowing that it is God who is

the doer. It is the half-baked ones who swell with pride and bring

about their own downfall.

[Guest guest]

Dear Kripa,

 

Thank you for this interesting story.

 

I have trouble with all this sometimes, if God is the DOER of all

things, then does that presuppose that God is the DOER when awful

things happen to people (such as being murdered, etc?)

 

I know the Advaita philosophy is such that there is only the ONE and

that ONE is the Doer, but I have a hard time comprehending all this.

Can anyone share their viewpoints with me about this?

 

Thank you,

Kathy

 

 

-- In , "kripa05112002" <kripa05112002> wrote:

> THE VAIN TORTOISE

> Once there were two cranes and a little tortoise who lived by a

lake

> and became fast friends. They played together all day long, sunning

> themselves on the sand and swimming in the lake. But that year

there

> was a drought. In the whole year, not a single drop of rain fell!

All

> the rivers dried up, and the land cracked into fissures. Of course,

> the little lake could not escape the same fate. The three friends

did

> not know what to do, and sighed all day. One day, the two cranes

> took to the air to see how things were, and came back in the

evening

> saying: "Brother Tortoise, everyone is moving to the Heavenly Lake.

I

> think we had better move too. If we stay here we shall die of

hunger

> and thirst."

> The tortoise shut his little eyes, as small as green beans, and

> wept. "Oh, you can fly or hurry as fast as you want, and go to the

> Heavenly Lake. But I can neither fly nor walk fast. Within three

days

> men will be able to pick up my empty shell! I would never have

> thought that you would leave me behind, when we have been friends

for

> so long." The tortoise wept so pitiably that the cranes, unable to

> hold back their own tears, did not have the heart to leave him

> behind. So they decided to stay back themselves for the time being.

> Perhaps, after all, the rain would come in a few days!

> But the weather promised no change. The cranes said again they

> thought they must go. The tortoise pleaded with them, saying, "We

> have been friends for so long! Can't you think of a way to take me

> along?" They put their heads together. After some time they

> said, "Brother Tortoise, we have a plan. We'll hold two ends of a

> stick in our beaks, and you can hang on to the middle. Then we can

> fly, carrying you between us. What do you think of the idea?" The

> little tortoise was so happy that he nearly hopped. "Yes, yes!

That's

> a fine idea! Let's start at once!" The cranes were very pleased,

too,

> but they had to give him a warning. "You must be very careful not

to

> open your mouth on the way.Of course not. I'll keep it shut

tight,

> even if someone tries to prise it open with a knife."

> So early next morning, the cranes held the two ends of the stick

and

> the tortoise gripped the middle in his jaws. They flew and flew and

> flew, over dark forests, glittering snow-covered mountains, temples

> with golden tiles and vast grasslands. Down on the earth, some

> people, painfully trying to irrigate their fields, pointed to them

> and said: "Look, what a clever tortoise he is! He holds the stick

in

> his jaws and lets the cranes carry him." The cranes went on as if

> they had heard nothing, but the tortoise glowed with pride.

Everyone

> was praising him! Ha, ha!!

> They flew on and on. Children, herding cattle on the mountain,

> shouted at them: "Look, how clever the cranes are! They are

carrying

> the tortoise to the very sky." The cranes paid no attention to it

but

> concentrated on flying, but the tortoise felt very hurt. "Stupid

> fools! Saying that it is the cranes that are carrying me! Why, it

was

> I who really inspired this plan! I must let them know which of us

is

> the cleverer." So with all his might he began to shout, "Hey! …"

But

> as soon as he opened his mouth, he fell head downward and tail up,

> went straight down, down, down….

> Humble seekers carry on their service knowing that it is God who is

> the doer. It is the half-baked ones who swell with pride and bring

> about their own downfall.

[Guest guest]

A very good sadhaka by mistake commited a very serious sin. He was

very disturbed about this. one of his friend gave him one advice. He

said that Lord Indra is the god of Hand, so It was lord Indra who

committed the sin and not you. Keep firm faith about this and you

will not be held responsible for your sin. Sadhaka was very happy

with this solution. That day onward he believed what his friend said

to him.

 

This was the time for lord indra to worry as sadhaka's believe was so

strong that he thought that he is definitely going to be responsible

for that sin. He decided to see if he really has such a strong

believe. Disguised as a Brahmin he want to his house. After normal

introduction Lord Indra talked about the sin committed by sadhka and

he replied that he did not commit the mistake as this was GOD who is

playing his hand through him. After some time lord started praising

his good karma. Initially sadhka was aware that his believe is that

Lord is playing his hand through him, but when the Brahmin praised a

lot he started feeling the sweetness of this praising and at one

point of time said that YES I did that good work. Lord Indra showed

his actual roop and said You can't give just bad deed to me. Since

you feel that you are responsible for your good action , so you will

be held responsible for your bad action too.

 

 

 

, celestial_saraswati <no_reply> wrote:

> Dear Kripa,

>

> Thank you for this interesting story.

>

> I have trouble with all this sometimes, if God is the DOER of all

> things, then does that presuppose that God is the DOER when awful

> things happen to people (such as being murdered, etc?)

>

> I know the Advaita philosophy is such that there is only the ONE

and

> that ONE is the Doer, but I have a hard time comprehending all

this.

> Can anyone share their viewpoints with me about this?

>

> Thank you,

> Kathy

>

>

> -- In , "kripa05112002" <kripa05112002> wrote:

> > THE VAIN TORTOISE

> > Once there were two cranes and a little tortoise who lived by a

> lake

> > and became fast friends. They played together all day long,

sunning

> > themselves on the sand and swimming in the lake. But that year

> there

> > was a drought. In the whole year, not a single drop of rain fell!

> All

> > the rivers dried up, and the land cracked into fissures. Of

course,

> > the little lake could not escape the same fate. The three friends

> did

> > not know what to do, and sighed all day. One day, the two cranes

> > took to the air to see how things were, and came back in the

> evening

> > saying: "Brother Tortoise, everyone is moving to the Heavenly

Lake.

> I

> > think we had better move too. If we stay here we shall die of

> hunger

> > and thirst."

> > The tortoise shut his little eyes, as small as green beans, and

> > wept. "Oh, you can fly or hurry as fast as you want, and go to

the

> > Heavenly Lake. But I can neither fly nor walk fast. Within three

> days

> > men will be able to pick up my empty shell! I would never have

> > thought that you would leave me behind, when we have been friends

> for

> > so long." The tortoise wept so pitiably that the cranes, unable

to

> > hold back their own tears, did not have the heart to leave him

> > behind. So they decided to stay back themselves for the time

being.

> > Perhaps, after all, the rain would come in a few days!

> > But the weather promised no change. The cranes said again they

> > thought they must go. The tortoise pleaded with them, saying, "We

> > have been friends for so long! Can't you think of a way to take

me

> > along?" They put their heads together. After some time they

> > said, "Brother Tortoise, we have a plan. We'll hold two ends of a

> > stick in our beaks, and you can hang on to the middle. Then we

can

> > fly, carrying you between us. What do you think of the idea?" The

> > little tortoise was so happy that he nearly hopped. "Yes, yes!

> That's

> > a fine idea! Let's start at once!" The cranes were very pleased,

> too,

> > but they had to give him a warning. "You must be very careful not

> to

> > open your mouth on the way.Of course not. I'll keep it shut

> tight,

> > even if someone tries to prise it open with a knife."

> > So early next morning, the cranes held the two ends of the stick

> and

> > the tortoise gripped the middle in his jaws. They flew and flew

and

> > flew, over dark forests, glittering snow-covered mountains,

temples

> > with golden tiles and vast grasslands. Down on the earth, some

> > people, painfully trying to irrigate their fields, pointed to

them

> > and said: "Look, what a clever tortoise he is! He holds the stick

> in

> > his jaws and lets the cranes carry him." The cranes went on as if

> > they had heard nothing, but the tortoise glowed with pride.

> Everyone

> > was praising him! Ha, ha!!

> > They flew on and on. Children, herding cattle on the mountain,

> > shouted at them: "Look, how clever the cranes are! They are

> carrying

> > the tortoise to the very sky." The cranes paid no attention to it

> but

> > concentrated on flying, but the tortoise felt very hurt. "Stupid

> > fools! Saying that it is the cranes that are carrying me! Why, it

> was

> > I who really inspired this plan! I must let them know which of us

> is

> > the cleverer." So with all his might he began to shout, "Hey! …"

> But

> > as soon as he opened his mouth, he fell head downward and tail

up,

> > went straight down, down, down….

> > Humble seekers carry on their service knowing that it is God who

is

> > the doer. It is the half-baked ones who swell with pride and

bring

> > about their own downfall.

[Guest guest]

Kripa has so beautifully explained, how we are ready to give up the

sense of doership in those cases when we err, but are relectant to do

so, when people praise us for our acts.

 

We will not be able to understand the concept of 'God is the doer of

all actions' as long as we are caught in duality. It becomes clear

only when we move out of it, and look at it from a neutral standpoint.

 

For eg. we all have seen various kinds of nightmares. There are so

many kinds of violences, injustices done to others or us in our

nightmares. Sometimes in our dreams, bad people torture us, or

someone murders someone else, etc. Sometimes we find that everyone

else is able to do something, and we are the only one not able to do

it in spite of all efforts. etc etc etc.

Though it is only a dream, the suffering is real as long as it lasts.

We realise the suffering is not real, only after waking. But while

dreaming, our heart rate increases, BP rises, breathing becomes

faster, we sweat etc. The moment we get up, we realise it's a dream

and we sigh in relief.

 

Do you ever question God, as to why so many terrors / injustices

happened in your dream?

 

This waking state is also kind of a dream, but we do not realise

it, 'cos we have not seen a state higher than this. Just as the

suffering seems real, as long as we are in the dream, so too the

suffering seems real, as long as we are in this waking state. Just

like how the suffering vanishes the moment we get up, and rise to a

higher level of consciousness namely the waking, so too the suffering

of this waking state vanishes when we rise to a higher level of

consciousness, the Turiya state. It's unfair to judge BOTH the dream

state and the waking state from the perspective of the waking state.

It can be understood only when we arise to a state different from

both dream and waking.

 

But for now, when we have not risen to a higher state, and we hold on

to the concept of duality (though we may be in the path of non-

duality), let's ask this question.

God pervades everything, and resides in all beings. All actions are

his. The actions that we call good and bad are His. The one who

murders is God. But is not the one who got murdered also God ? Where

then is the sin, when the murderer and the murdered are the SAME ?

 

Sins and merits are present only as long as duality exists. Just like

how darkness flees where there is light, so too sins and merits flee

where there is only ONE.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Dear Friend,

 

Thank you for this story...okay, the story is saying that both good

and bad is performed/done by the One DOER (i.e. God/the Lord). So

still, I am asking, how does one reconcile the terrible atrocities

that are done to people..why would a loving God do such things to

people? ..It is very hard, reading every day in the papers about all

these awful things, little girls being abducted and murdered, etc.

etc. Is God doing all this?

 

Would welcome responses and your thoughts,

 

Thank you,

Kathy

 

-- In , "kripa05112002" <kripa05112002> wrote:

> A very good sadhaka by mistake commited a very serious sin. He was

> very disturbed about this. one of his friend gave him one advice.

He

> said that Lord Indra is the god of Hand, so It was lord Indra who

> committed the sin and not you. Keep firm faith about this and you

> will not be held responsible for your sin. Sadhaka was very happy

> with this solution. That day onward he believed what his friend

said

> to him.

>

> This was the time for lord indra to worry as sadhaka's believe was

so

> strong that he thought that he is definitely going to be

responsible

> for that sin. He decided to see if he really has such a strong

> believe. Disguised as a Brahmin he want to his house. After normal

> introduction Lord Indra talked about the sin committed by sadhka

and

> he replied that he did not commit the mistake as this was GOD who

is

> playing his hand through him. After some time lord started praising

> his good karma. Initially sadhka was aware that his believe is that

> Lord is playing his hand through him, but when the Brahmin praised

a

> lot he started feeling the sweetness of this praising and at one

> point of time said that YES I did that good work. Lord Indra showed

> his actual roop and said You can't give just bad deed to me. Since

> you feel that you are responsible for your good action , so you

will

> be held responsible for your bad action too.

>

>

>

> , celestial_saraswati <no_reply> wrote:

> > Dear Kripa,

> >

> > Thank you for this interesting story.

> >

> > I have trouble with all this sometimes, if God is the DOER of all

> > things, then does that presuppose that God is the DOER when awful

> > things happen to people (such as being murdered, etc?)

> >

> > I know the Advaita philosophy is such that there is only the ONE

> and

> > that ONE is the Doer, but I have a hard time comprehending all

> this.

> > Can anyone share their viewpoints with me about this?

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Kathy

> >

> >

> > -- In , "kripa05112002" <kripa05112002> wrote:

> > > THE VAIN TORTOISE

> > > Once there were two cranes and a little tortoise who lived by a

> > lake

> > > and became fast friends. They played together all day long,

> sunning

> > > themselves on the sand and swimming in the lake. But that year

> > there

> > > was a drought. In the whole year, not a single drop of rain

fell!

> > All

> > > the rivers dried up, and the land cracked into fissures. Of

> course,

> > > the little lake could not escape the same fate. The three

friends

> > did

> > > not know what to do, and sighed all day. One day, the two

cranes

> > > took to the air to see how things were, and came back in the

> > evening

> > > saying: "Brother Tortoise, everyone is moving to the Heavenly

> Lake.

> > I

> > > think we had better move too. If we stay here we shall die of

> > hunger

> > > and thirst."

> > > The tortoise shut his little eyes, as small as green beans, and

> > > wept. "Oh, you can fly or hurry as fast as you want, and go to

> the

> > > Heavenly Lake. But I can neither fly nor walk fast. Within

three

> > days

> > > men will be able to pick up my empty shell! I would never have

> > > thought that you would leave me behind, when we have been

friends

> > for

> > > so long." The tortoise wept so pitiably that the cranes, unable

> to

> > > hold back their own tears, did not have the heart to leave him

> > > behind. So they decided to stay back themselves for the time

> being.

> > > Perhaps, after all, the rain would come in a few days!

> > > But the weather promised no change. The cranes said again they

> > > thought they must go. The tortoise pleaded with them,

saying, "We

> > > have been friends for so long! Can't you think of a way to take

> me

> > > along?" They put their heads together. After some time they

> > > said, "Brother Tortoise, we have a plan. We'll hold two ends of

a

> > > stick in our beaks, and you can hang on to the middle. Then we

> can

> > > fly, carrying you between us. What do you think of the idea?"

The

> > > little tortoise was so happy that he nearly hopped. "Yes, yes!

> > That's

> > > a fine idea! Let's start at once!" The cranes were very

pleased,

> > too,

> > > but they had to give him a warning. "You must be very careful

not

> > to

> > > open your mouth on the way.Of course not. I'll keep it shut

> > tight,

> > > even if someone tries to prise it open with a knife."

> > > So early next morning, the cranes held the two ends of the

stick

> > and

> > > the tortoise gripped the middle in his jaws. They flew and flew

> and

> > > flew, over dark forests, glittering snow-covered mountains,

> temples

> > > with golden tiles and vast grasslands. Down on the earth, some

> > > people, painfully trying to irrigate their fields, pointed to

> them

> > > and said: "Look, what a clever tortoise he is! He holds the

stick

> > in

> > > his jaws and lets the cranes carry him." The cranes went on as

if

> > > they had heard nothing, but the tortoise glowed with pride.

> > Everyone

> > > was praising him! Ha, ha!!

> > > They flew on and on. Children, herding cattle on the mountain,

> > > shouted at them: "Look, how clever the cranes are! They are

> > carrying

> > > the tortoise to the very sky." The cranes paid no attention to

it

> > but

> > > concentrated on flying, but the tortoise felt very

hurt. "Stupid

> > > fools! Saying that it is the cranes that are carrying me! Why,

it

> > was

> > > I who really inspired this plan! I must let them know which of

us

> > is

> > > the cleverer." So with all his might he began to shout, "Hey!

…"

> > But

> > > as soon as he opened his mouth, he fell head downward and tail

> up,

> > > went straight down, down, down….

> > > Humble seekers carry on their service knowing that it is God

who

> is

> > > the doer. It is the half-baked ones who swell with pride and

> bring

> > > about their own downfall.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friend,

 

Thank you for this sharing. I have read it and understand (in

theory) what you are saying, that namely, this life that we live is

all but a dream (as in the song, Row row row your boat: "life is but

a dream.")

 

At the highest level (beyond duality), I see what you are saying.

But we are in these physical bodies, and we live on a planet where

there is plenty of duality (day and night, etc). My heart goes out

to all the suffering I read about and see. Am having a real problem

accepting that the little girls I keep reading about that are being

abducted and murdered is God, so therefore, 'not to worry', etc. I

think even Amma Anasuya Devi did not discount the life we live

presently on this earth or say it is not of the Divine, etc.

 

So is there any way at all for me to accept or comprehend this at a

realistic, feeling level? At a "theoretical" level, I can hear what

you are saying, but at this level, it is awful and terrible to

see/witness. I think Karunamayi had said that even pious souls do

not want to come to earth during this Kali Yuga.

 

Thoughts, comments...anyone?

 

Thank you,

 

Kathy

-- In , s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

>

> Kripa has so beautifully explained, how we are ready to give up the

> sense of doership in those cases when we err, but are relectant to

do

> so, when people praise us for our acts.

>

> We will not be able to understand the concept of 'God is the doer

of

> all actions' as long as we are caught in duality. It becomes clear

> only when we move out of it, and look at it from a neutral

standpoint.

>

> For eg. we all have seen various kinds of nightmares. There are so

> many kinds of violences, injustices done to others or us in our

> nightmares. Sometimes in our dreams, bad people torture us, or

> someone murders someone else, etc. Sometimes we find that everyone

> else is able to do something, and we are the only one not able to

do

> it in spite of all efforts. etc etc etc.

> Though it is only a dream, the suffering is real as long as it

lasts.

> We realise the suffering is not real, only after waking. But while

> dreaming, our heart rate increases, BP rises, breathing becomes

> faster, we sweat etc. The moment we get up, we realise it's a dream

> and we sigh in relief.

>

> Do you ever question God, as to why so many terrors / injustices

> happened in your dream?

>

> This waking state is also kind of a dream, but we do not realise

> it, 'cos we have not seen a state higher than this. Just as the

> suffering seems real, as long as we are in the dream, so too the

> suffering seems real, as long as we are in this waking state. Just

> like how the suffering vanishes the moment we get up, and rise to a

> higher level of consciousness namely the waking, so too the

suffering

> of this waking state vanishes when we rise to a higher level of

> consciousness, the Turiya state. It's unfair to judge BOTH the

dream

> state and the waking state from the perspective of the waking

state.

> It can be understood only when we arise to a state different from

> both dream and waking.

>

> But for now, when we have not risen to a higher state, and we hold

on

> to the concept of duality (though we may be in the path of non-

> duality), let's ask this question.

> God pervades everything, and resides in all beings. All actions are

> his. The actions that we call good and bad are His. The one who

> murders is God. But is not the one who got murdered also God ?

Where

> then is the sin, when the murderer and the murdered are the SAME ?

>

> Sins and merits are present only as long as duality exists. Just

like

> how darkness flees where there is light, so too sins and merits

flee

> where there is only ONE.

>

> Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

I very much agree with what Kathy has to say..!!

would anyone throw more light on it!!

love and light

ashish

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, celestial_saraswati <no_reply> wrote:

>

> Dear Friend,

>

> Thank you for this sharing. I have read it and understand (in

> theory) what you are saying, that namely, this life that we live is

> all but a dream (as in the song, Row row row your boat: "life is

but

> a dream.")

>

> At the highest level (beyond duality), I see what you are saying.

> But we are in these physical bodies, and we live on a planet where

> there is plenty of duality (day and night, etc). My heart goes out

> to all the suffering I read about and see. Am having a real

problem

> accepting that the little girls I keep reading about that are being

> abducted and murdered is God, so therefore, 'not to worry', etc. I

> think even Amma Anasuya Devi did not discount the life we live

> presently on this earth or say it is not of the Divine, etc.

>

> So is there any way at all for me to accept or comprehend this at a

> realistic, feeling level? At a "theoretical" level, I can hear

what

> you are saying, but at this level, it is awful and terrible to

> see/witness. I think Karunamayi had said that even pious souls do

> not want to come to earth during this Kali Yuga.

>

> Thoughts, comments...anyone?

>

> Thank you,

>

> Kathy

> -- In , s_v_c_s <no_reply> wrote:

> >

> > Kripa has so beautifully explained, how we are ready to give up

the

> > sense of doership in those cases when we err, but are relectant

to

> do

> > so, when people praise us for our acts.

> >

> > We will not be able to understand the concept of 'God is the doer

> of

> > all actions' as long as we are caught in duality. It becomes

clear

> > only when we move out of it, and look at it from a neutral

> standpoint.

> >

> > For eg. we all have seen various kinds of nightmares. There are

so

> > many kinds of violences, injustices done to others or us in our

> > nightmares. Sometimes in our dreams, bad people torture us, or

> > someone murders someone else, etc. Sometimes we find that

everyone

> > else is able to do something, and we are the only one not able to

> do

> > it in spite of all efforts. etc etc etc.

> > Though it is only a dream, the suffering is real as long as it

> lasts.

> > We realise the suffering is not real, only after waking. But

while

> > dreaming, our heart rate increases, BP rises, breathing becomes

> > faster, we sweat etc. The moment we get up, we realise it's a

dream

> > and we sigh in relief.

> >

> > Do you ever question God, as to why so many terrors / injustices

> > happened in your dream?

> >

> > This waking state is also kind of a dream, but we do not realise

> > it, 'cos we have not seen a state higher than this. Just as the

> > suffering seems real, as long as we are in the dream, so too the

> > suffering seems real, as long as we are in this waking state.

Just

> > like how the suffering vanishes the moment we get up, and rise to

a

> > higher level of consciousness namely the waking, so too the

> suffering

> > of this waking state vanishes when we rise to a higher level of

> > consciousness, the Turiya state. It's unfair to judge BOTH the

> dream

> > state and the waking state from the perspective of the waking

> state.

> > It can be understood only when we arise to a state different from

> > both dream and waking.

> >

> > But for now, when we have not risen to a higher state, and we

hold

> on

> > to the concept of duality (though we may be in the path of non-

> > duality), let's ask this question.

> > God pervades everything, and resides in all beings. All actions

are

> > his. The actions that we call good and bad are His. The one who

> > murders is God. But is not the one who got murdered also God ?

> Where

> > then is the sin, when the murderer and the murdered are the SAME ?

> >

> > Sins and merits are present only as long as duality exists. Just

> like

> > how darkness flees where there is light, so too sins and merits

> flee

> > where there is only ONE.

> >

> > Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

"If God is the doer of all actions, why then is there so much evil in

this world." A very good question indeed !

 

Before giving you my thoughts, I'll post below a question and answer

from one of Ramana Maharshi's newsletters.

 

Q : He states that we are not the doers.... Yet, if we are not the

doers, then who is, if all is one consciousness? I have heard from

the Advaita side that because we are not the doers, then apparently

we are not responsible for our actions....

 

Editor : The teaching is correct: "We are not the doers." But as long

as we live an ego-centered life we are unable to experience the truth

of this teaching and will have to suffer the consequences of our

actions. That is called the Law of Karma.

Once we completely surrender to the Higher Power, or completely

efface the ego by Self-enquiry and realize the Self, we know for

certain that we are not the doer. It is an ever-present experience.

Up to this point we must make effort to realize the truth that we

cannot, in fact, make any efforts, that we are only tools in the the

hands of the Higher Power. Such are the contradictions in verbalizing

spiritual truths.

No true teacher will ever say you are not responsible for your

actions. Only when individuality is lost, when we are fixed in the

realization of the One Reality, are we not responsible for our

actions. In that state there is no one but the Higher Power to be

responsible.

 

-------------

 

>>At the highest level (beyond duality), I see what you are saying.

But we are in these physical bodies, and we live on a planet where

there is plenty of duality (day and night, etc).<<

 

The answer lies in your above statement itself. We are in these

physical bodies, and are in a planet full of duality. Thus as long as

we have the sense of duality in us, only the laws of duality hold

good viz the law of causation / karma.

The idea that 'God is the doer of all' is applicable only in the

state of non-duality or where there is complete surrender, and does

NOT hold good in the realm of duality.

 

For eg. Water (H2O) exists in 3 states namely gaseous (vapor), liquid

(water) and solid (snow and ice). Though the basic susbstance of all

is the same ie. H2O, their properties vary with their state.

Water flows, and renders a surface wet. On the contrary ice or snow

cannot flow. Though both ice and snow are solid forms, their

densities vary, and thus their hardness and other physical

characteristics also vary.

The law of bouyance and thrust that applies to liquid water do NOT

apply to ice or snow, though they are both the same.

 

The penetrating power and pressure that steam exerts cannot be

obtained from ice or snow, though they are both the same.

 

Thus we find that , though the substance is H2O in all the states,

its physical, and chemical characteristics vary depending on the

state. The law that holds good to one do not apply to another state.

 

So too, though all is God, the law that holds good for non-duality do

not hold good for duality. As long as are in the realm of duality,

and have the 'I am this body' feeling, we are the doers and are

responsible for our own actions.

 

If there is suffering in this world, it is b'cos of karma. People

suffer for the mistakes they've committed earlier either in this or a

previous life. This is the law of causation or Karma. In simple

English it amounts to 'As you sow so shall you reap'.

 

If you sow mango seeds, you will reap mangoes, but if you sow cacti

and weeds, you will reap accordingly.

 

Hari Aum !!!

[Guest guest]

Ramakrishna:

God dwells in all beings. But you may be intimate only with good

people; you must keep away from the evil-minded. God is even in the

tiger; but you cannot embrace the tiger on that account (Laughter.)

You may say, "Why run away from a tiger, which is also a

manifestation of God? The answer to that is: Those who tell you to

run away are also manifestations of God; why shouldn't you listen to

them?

 

 

Ramakrishna:

As Consciousness, (God) pervades the entire universe of the living

and the non-living.

 

 

Ramakrishna:

Is it possible to understand God's action and His motive? He creates,

He preserves, and He destorys. Can we ever understand why He

destroys? I say to the Divine Mother: "O Mother, I do not need to

understand. Please give me love for Thy Lotus Feet." The aim of human

life is to attain bhakti As for other things, the Mother knows best.

I have come to the garden to eat mangoes. What is the use of my

calculating the number of trees, branches, and leaves? I only eat the

mangoes; I don't need to know the number of trees and leaves.

 

 

 

Ramakrishna:

There are three classes of devotees. The lowest one says, "God is up

there," and he points to heaven. The mdiocre devotee says that God

dwells in the heart as the "Inner Controller." But the highest

devotee says: "God alone has become everything. All things that we

perceive are so many forms of God."

[Guest guest]

How to live in the world

 

Sri Ramakrishna knew all such deviant criticism of spiritual

aspirants by common man. He asked Narendranath:

 

"How do you feel about it? Worldly people say all kinds of things

about the spiritually minded. But look here! When an elephant moves

along the street small animals may bark at it; but the elephant

doesn't even look back at them. If people speak ill of you, what will

you think of them?"

 

To this Narendranath replied with characteristic boldness and

carefree manner: "I shall think that dogs are barking at me."

 

Master (smiling) said: "Oh, no! You mustn't go that far, my child!"

(All in the room laugh with amusement) God dwells in every being, but

one should not mix with bad people. God is even in tiger; but one

cannot embrace the tiger on that account! Now the question would be

asked: "Why run away from a tiger, which is also manifestation of

God?" The answer is that those who tell you to run away are also

God!!! And these people telling you to run away have achieved

somewhat higher heights in the spiritual matters. Therefore, one

should listen to more experienced and wiser man. Our mind also has

two aspects; one higher the other lower. By discrimination we shall

be able to listen and hear to the faint voice of reason and wisdom.

Then our decisions do not go wrong and hurdles are minimized.

 

Here we see how Sri Ramakrishna wants his devotees to go slowly and

steadily to counter negative tendencies both in people around us and

within us. Acute emotions, knee jerk reactions, and megalomania are

counterproductive in the initial stages in the life of a sadhaka.

Secondly, what we think to be correct might be lower truth at the

ebst; for there may be higher truth that we might not grasp in such

quick and thoughtless reactions. Therefore, Sri Ramakrishna tells a

story to drive this point home.

 

In the outskirts of a village a teacher was encamping with his

disciples. The wise man taught his disciples about existence of God

in all beings; be they insentient or sentient. One of the disciples

took this teaching with great seriousness and used to behave as per

this teaching.

 

One day the teacher sent this sadhaka to the village to fetch

necessary food and things for the yajna etc. The simple minded

sadhaka purchased the necessary items and while returning heard the

shouts of 'run away, run away; a mad elephant is coming.' Everyone

around him took to their heels and took shelter here and there. But

this disciple reasoned, ' my gurudev has told me that God exists in

this elephant also, so why should I run away?' he did not move from

the path of the mad elephant was thrown down by the animal. Seriously

hurt, the disciple lay unconscious on the ground.

 

Soon the news reached the camp in the jungle, and the teacher and

fellow sadhakas rushed to the rescue of this hurt brahmacharin. With

treatment and mantra power the teacher brought the disciple to

consciousness and inquired: "Did you not hear the warning of mahout

to run away?"

 

The defiant disciple replied: "But, sir! Why, you yourself told me

that Narayana also resided in elephant!"

 

With great amusement and in most meaningful way the teacher

said: "Yes, my dear child, Narayana resides in elephant also; but it

resides with greater manifestation in mahout as well. You should have

listened to him with more alacrity! Then you would not have to this

state."

 

I

Listening to these wise words of Sri Ramakrishna, one devotee

asked: "Sir, if a wicked man is about harm, or actually does so,

should we keep quiet then?" To this Sri Ramakrishna answered: "A man

living in society should make a show of tamas to protect himself from

evil-minded people. But he should not harm anybody in anticipation of

harm likely to be done to him."

Householder must hiss at wicked people; they must frighten the evil-

minded persons lest they should harm the householders. But never

inject the venom into them. One must not injure others. Like the

snake in the parable, householder should hiss but not bite.