Guest guest Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 See SHAHIDULLAH, Muhammad: "The custom of circumcision among the Dravidians", JASB N.S. 17, 1921, 263f. Regards, Klaus On Sep 4, 2005, at 7:28 PM, phillip.ernest wrote: > Hi group. > > This site: > > http://www.geocities. > com/Athens/Ithaca/1335/Anthro/sud_afr.html#circ > > makes the claim: > > 'Circumcision, both male and female, was practiced by Dravidians and is > still widely practiced in Africa.' > > But cites no proof that I can > find. I have always been very interested in the possibility of pre- > muslim practices of male and female circumcision in the Subcontinent, > but have not come across any evidence for them in my reading. The > closest thing I have found is the genital mutilations described in > Kamasutra VII.2, interestingly attributed to the southern country: > > 'The people of the southern countries think that true sexual pleasure > cannot be obtained without perforating the lingam, and they therefore > cause it to be pierced like the lobes of the ears of an infant pierced > for earrings. > > 'Now, when a young man perforates his lingam he should > pierce it with a sharp instrument, and then stand in water so long as > the blood continues to flow. At night, he should engage in sexual > intercourse, even with vigour, so as to clean the hole. After this he > should continue to wash the hole with decoctions, and increase the size > by putting into it small pieces of cane, and the wrightia > antidysenterica, and thus gradually enlarging the orifice. It may also > be washed with liquorice mixed with honey, and the size of the hole > increased by the fruit stalks of the simapatra plant. The hole should > also be anointed with a small quantity of oil. > > 'In the hole made in > the lingam a man may put Apadravyas of various forms, such as the > 'round', the 'round on one side', the 'wooden mortar', the 'flower', > the 'armlet', the 'bone of the heron', the 'goad of the elephant', the > 'collection of eight balls', the 'lock of hair', the 'place where four > roads meet', and other things named according to their forms and means > of using them. All these Apadravyas should be rough on the outside > according to their requirements.' [from Burton's 'translation', which > is what comes ready to hand online] > > But this is not circumcision. Can > anyone think what the makers of this site are thinking of; does any > evidence for dravidian circumcision come to mind? > > Phillip Links > > > > > > > Klaus Karttunen, Ph.D. Research Fellow, Helsinki Collegium for Advanced Studies P.O. Box 4 FIN-00014 University of Helsinki Finland Tel +358-(0)9-191 23500 Fax +358-(0)9-191 24509 Email Klaus.Karttunen also Docent of Indology and Classical Ethnography Institute of Asian and African Studies PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B), 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Philip, One of my Professors at the University of California-- the anthropologist Donald Brown--wrote a monoograph on penile 'inserts' in Southeast Asia: does that help? Prem --- "phillip.ernest" <phillip.ernest wrote: > Hi group. > > This site: > > http://www.geocities. > com/Athens/Ithaca/1335/Anthro/sud_afr.html#circ > > makes the claim: > > 'Circumcision, both male and female, was practiced > by Dravidians and is > still widely practiced in Africa.' > > But cites no proof that I can > find. I have always been very interested in the > possibility of pre- > muslim practices of male and female circumcision in > the Subcontinent, > but have not come across any evidence for them in my > reading. The > closest thing I have found is the genital > mutilations described in > Kamasutra VII.2, interestingly attributed to the > southern country: > > 'The people of the southern countries think that > true sexual pleasure > cannot be obtained without perforating the lingam, > and they therefore > cause it to be pierced like the lobes of the ears of > an infant pierced > for earrings. > > 'Now, when a young man perforates his lingam he > should > pierce it with a sharp instrument, and then stand in > water so long as > the blood continues to flow. At night, he should > engage in sexual > intercourse, even with vigour, so as to clean the > hole. After this he > should continue to wash the hole with decoctions, > and increase the size > by putting into it small pieces of cane, and the > wrightia > antidysenterica, and thus gradually enlarging the > orifice. It may also > be washed with liquorice mixed with honey, and the > size of the hole > increased by the fruit stalks of the simapatra > plant. The hole should > also be anointed with a small quantity of oil. > > 'In the hole made in > the lingam a man may put Apadravyas of various > forms, such as the > 'round', the 'round on one side', the 'wooden > mortar', the 'flower', > the 'armlet', the 'bone of the heron', the 'goad of > the elephant', the > 'collection of eight balls', the 'lock of hair', the > 'place where four > roads meet', and other things named according to > their forms and means > of using them. All these Apadravyas should be rough > on the outside > according to their requirements.' [from Burton's > 'translation', which > is what comes ready to hand online] > > But this is not circumcision. Can > anyone think what the makers of this site are > thinking of; does any > evidence for dravidian circumcision come to mind? > > Phillip > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 Dear Phillip, Re the thread below, here's the reference you needed: Donald E. Brown et al, "The Penis Inserts of Southeast Asia", Center for South and South East Asian Studies, Occasional Paper, Berkeley, 1988. Warmly, Prem Note: forwarded message attached. Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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