[Y-Indology] Conference on Indus Valley/Saraswati

[Guest guest]

Precisely as M. Deshpande says: I too wondered about the "consensus

reached by the conference", as broadcast in at least one Indian

newspaper.

 

I was ill and could not go and speak (as planned) at that conference.

However, I heard that at the end of the conference the (NRI) sponsors

complained that nothing had been said about the "Indus-Saraswati"

nature of the Harappan civilization. Then, *some* statement was made

(by whom? Dr Sardesai?) -- I do not know the wording. I will enquire

with participants.

 

However, the newspaper report stressed (as below) that "all" agreed:

"no Aryan Invasion"... "which must be taken out of schoolbooks" in

India and the US... And so on. The focus of the conference, as below,

was QUITE different, technical, and dealt with the Indus civ..

 

B.B. Lal, of course, has propagated, during the past few years, that

the Indus and the Vedic civilization were THE SAME... He may believe so

but he will not find many takers withy those who know the Vedic texts.

 

M. Witzel

 

On Apr 7, 2004, at 11:23 PM, deshpandem wrote:

 

> On the web, I found the detailed program of the conference reported by

> Shri Kelkar. While I have no doubt about what Dr. SarDesai evidently

> concluded at the end of the conference, the names of the participants

> and the titles of the papers seem to convey a different focus, not

> the OIT or the Vedic character of Indus. Steve Farmer, one of the

> participants in the conference, reports that the participants were

> shocked to hear the statements of Dr. SarDesai, who was not a

> participant, but a moderator, and did not present a paper himself. I

> am waiting to see the published proceedings of the conference, but in

> the mean time, here is the full program of the conference.

>

> Madhav Deshpande

>

>

> The Rise of Civilization in the Greater Indus Valley and Saraswati:

> Recent Interpretations

>

> University Student Union

> California State University, Long Beach

>

> Saturday, October 18, 2003

>

>

>

> 8:30-9:00 Coffee

>

> 9:00-9:15 Welcoming Remarks:

>

> Arnold P. Kaminsky, Conference Organizer, CSULB

> Robert Maxson, President, CSULB

> Dean Dorothy Abrahamse, College of Liberal Arts, CSULB

>

> Greetings: Navin Doshi, Platinum Sponsor

> 9:15-9:35 Opening Remarks:

>

> Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, University of Wisconsin

> The Indus Civilization and Its Modern Relevance

> 9:40-10:50 Panel 1 - The Indus Civilization: Overviews of Chronology

> and Biological Dimensions

>

> Moderator, Gregory L. Possehl, University of Pennsylvania

>

> Richard H. Meadow, Harvard University

> The Development of the Indus Civilization: Chronology and Geography

>

> Brian Hemphill, California State University, Bakersfield

> Bioanthropology of the Indus Valley: Overview, Neolithic to Late

> Harappan

>

> Steven Weber, Washington State University Vancouver

> Palaeoethnobotany of the Indus Civilization: Overview, Early to

> Late Harappan

>

> Ajita Patel, Harvard University

> Zooarchaeology of the Harappan World: Issues and Insights into the

> Development of Pastoralism in Northwestern South Asia

> 10:50-11:15 Coffee Break

> 11:15-12:30 Panel 2 - Urbanization and Trade in the Indus Region

>

> Moderator, Richard H. Meadow, Harvard University

>

> Rita Wright, New York University

> Tracing the Urban Process: City and Countryside in the Upper Indus

> Valley

>

> Randall Law, University of Wisconsin

> Internal Trade and Raw Materials in the Indus Region: Overview,

> Early to Late Harappan

>

> Heather M.-L. Miller, University of Toronto

> The Organization of Craft Technologies in the Indus Urban Center

> 12:30-1:45 Lunch

>

> Introduction: Bradley K. Hawkins, Department of Religious Studies,

> CSULB

>

> Luncheon Speaker: Gregory L. Possehl, University of Pennsylvania

> Excavations at Gilund and their Insights into the Indus

> Civilization.

>

> Luncheon hosted by Uka and Nalini Solanki.

> 2:00-3:30 Panel 3 - Issues and Perspectives

>

> Uka Solanki, Plantinum Donor: The Solanki Lecture Series

>

> Moderator, Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, University of Wisconsin

>

> Steve Farmer, Palo Alto

> 'Writing' or Non-Linguistic Symbols? The Myth of the Literate

> Indus Valley

>

> Vasant S. Shinde, Deccan College/Postgraduate Research Institute

> (Pune)

> The Chalcolithic Cultures of Rajasthan

>

> Ihsan Ali, University of Peshawar, Pakistan

> Early Historic Archaeology of the Frontier Province, Pakistan

>

> Shereen Ratnagar, Jawaharlal Nehru University

> Indology or Anthropology: Some Issues in Harappan Studies

> 3:30-4:15 Panel 4 - Special Presentation

>

> Moderator, Shiva G. Bajpai, California State University, Northridge

>

> B.B. Lal, Former Director General, Archaeological Survey of India

> Who could have been the Authors of the Harappan Civilization? A

> Fresh Analysis of the Recent Data

>

> Iravatham Mahadevan, University of Chennai, Indian Administrative

> Service (Retired)

> Reflections on the Indus Script

> 4:15-5:15 Plenary Session

>

> Moderator, D.R. SarDesai, University of California, Los Angeles

>

> Summary Remarks:

>

> Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, University of Wisconsin

> Richard H. Meadow, Harvard University

> Gregory L. Possehl, University of Pennsylvania

>

> Expression of Appreciation:Bhupesh Parikh, Platinum Sponsor

>

>

>

> Last updated October 16, 2003

>

>

> INDOLOGY, "mkelkar2003" <smykelkar@c...> wrote:

>> http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=331237

>>

>>

>> In October 2003, California State University, (CA), USA, held a

>> conference on "The Rise of Civilisation in the Greater Indus Valley

>> and Saraswati: Recent Interpretations."

>>

>> The participants included Prof BB Lal, former Director-General, ASI;

>> Mr Iravatham Mahad evan, expert on Harappan and Tamil Brahmi scripts;

>> Left academic Dr Shireen Ratnakar; Dr Vasant Shinde and Dr Gregory

>> Possehl who are excavating Gilund in Rajasthan; anthropologists Dr

>> Steve Farmer and Dr Brian Hemphill who have worked on archaeological

>> evidence through skeletal remains; Prof Jonathan Mark Kenoyer and Dr

>> Richard Meadow who have worked extensively on Harappa sites; Prof DR

>> Sar Desai, University of California, Los Angeles; Prof Ihsan Ali,

>> University of Peshawar, Pakistan; and Prof Kaminsky.

>>

>> The conference proved to be epochal as academics arrived at a

>> consensus on the "End of the Aryan invasion theory". Its moderator, Dr

>> Sar Desai, declared that future writings on Indian history would

>> assert that there was no Aryan invasion of India. The organiser, Prof

>> Kaminsky, was authorised to get in touch with authors of Indian

>> history textbooks and introduce this consensus at the secondary and

>> high school level, where falsehoods are still being perpetuated.

>>

>> Prof Kenoyer contacted publishers of school textbooks in New York to

>> revise the issue of the Aryans and Vedic-Harappan culture in American

>> school textbooks. In fact, the conference organisers have written to

>> school level educational institutions all over the world, including

>> the NCERT in India.

>

>

>

>

> Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

Michael Witzel

Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University

1 Bow Street , Cambridge MA 02138

1-617-495 3295 Fax: 496 8571

direct line: 496 2990

http://witzel (AT) fas (DOT) harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The attitudes of the NRI sponsors in these matters are rather

pervasive. It is interesting to note that the NRI community (of

which I am a member, and I hate the term NRI, because my

relatives in India insist it means "Not-Required Indians") feels

that it is perfectly okay to be immigrants in the US, but the same

community in its emotion cannot accept the possibility that their

ancestors may as well have been immigrants in India hundreds

of years ago. Many of my close friends in the Marathi community

in Michigan have become more conservative in their own

attitudes toward their own Hindu identity, not being able to cope

with the unavoidable reality that half of the children in the

immigrant community are marrying outside of their caste and

regional Indian identity, and many going outside of the Hindu

community and marrying Americans or others. The parents

cannot do anything to prevent this new found freedom of the

children. This is understandably stressful for the first

generation Indian immigrants, who while remaining physically in

the US, are emotionally becoming more Indian than the

westernizing Indians back home in India. Therefore,

community sponsorship of academic programs always runs the

risk of the academic community not being able to satisfy the

emotional needs and demands of the sponsor group. I know of

a situation where an Indian community group offered a full

endowment for a permanent chair to a university, but demanded

that the university must appoint a person belonging to that

community and acceptable to the community. This has caused

a lot of headache, and the university may ultimately decide not to

accept an endowment under such stipulations. The failure of the

Hinduja initiative at Columbia University points to the same

problem.

 

Madhav Deshpande

 

INDOLOGY, Michael Witzel

<witzel@f...> wrote:

> Precisely as M. Deshpande says: I too wondered about the

"consensus

> reached by the conference", as broadcast in at least one Indian

> newspaper.

>

> I was ill and could not go and speak (as planned) at that

conference.

> However, I heard that at the end of the conference the (NRI)

sponsors

> complained that nothing had been said about the

"Indus-Saraswati"

> nature of the Harappan civilization. Then, *some* statement

was made

> (by whom? Dr Sardesai?) -- I do not know the wording. I will

enquire

> with participants.

>

> However, the newspaper report stressed (as below) that "all"

agreed:

> "no Aryan Invasion"... "which must be taken out of

schoolbooks" in

> India and the US... And so on. The focus of the conference, as

below,

> was QUITE different, technical, and dealt with the Indus civ..

>

> B.B. Lal, of course, has propagated, during the past few

years, that

> the Indus and the Vedic civilization were THE SAME... He may

believe so

> but he will not find many takers withy those who know the Vedic

texts.

>

> M. Witzel

>

> On Apr 7, 2004, at 11:23 PM, deshpandem wrote:

>

> > On the web, I found the detailed program of the conference

reported by

> > Shri Kelkar. While I have no doubt about what Dr. SarDesai

evidently

> > concluded at the end of the conference, the names of the

participants

> > and the titles of the papers seem to convey a different focus,

not

> > the OIT or the Vedic character of Indus. Steve Farmer, one of

the

> > participants in the conference, reports that the participants

were

> > shocked to hear the statements of Dr. SarDesai, who was

not a

> > participant, but a moderator, and did not present a paper

himself. I

> > am waiting to see the published proceedings of the

conference, but in

> > the mean time, here is the full program of the conference.

> >

> > Madhav Deshpande

> >

> >

> > The Rise of Civilization in the Greater Indus Valley and

Saraswati:

> > Recent Interpretations

> >

> > University Student Union

> > California State University, Long Beach

> >

> > Saturday, October 18, 2003

> >

> >

> >

> > 8:30-9:00 Coffee

> >

> > 9:00-9:15 Welcoming Remarks:

> >

> > Arnold P. Kaminsky, Conference Organizer, CSULB

> > Robert Maxson, President, CSULB

> > Dean Dorothy Abrahamse, College of Liberal Arts, CSULB

> >

> > Greetings: Navin Doshi, Platinum Sponsor

> > 9:15-9:35 Opening Remarks:

> >

> > Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, University of Wisconsin

> > The Indus Civilization and Its Modern Relevance

> > 9:40-10:50 Panel 1 - The Indus Civilization: Overviews of

Chronology

> > and Biological Dimensions

> >

> > Moderator, Gregory L. Possehl, University of Pennsylvania

> >

> > Richard H. Meadow, Harvard University

> > The Development of the Indus Civilization: Chronology and

Geography

> >

> > Brian Hemphill, California State University, Bakersfield

> > Bioanthropology of the Indus Valley: Overview, Neolithic to

Late

> > Harappan

> >

> > Steven Weber, Washington State University Vancouver

> > Palaeoethnobotany of the Indus Civilization: Overview,

Early to

> > Late Harappan

> >

> > Ajita Patel, Harvard University

> > Zooarchaeology of the Harappan World: Issues and Insights

into the

> > Development of Pastoralism in Northwestern South Asia

> > 10:50-11:15 Coffee Break

> > 11:15-12:30 Panel 2 - Urbanization and Trade in the Indus

Region

> >

> > Moderator, Richard H. Meadow, Harvard University

> >

> > Rita Wright, New York University

> > Tracing the Urban Process: City and Countryside in the

Upper Indus

> > Valley

> >

> > Randall Law, University of Wisconsin

> > Internal Trade and Raw Materials in the Indus Region:

Overview,

> > Early to Late Harappan

> >

> > Heather M.-L. Miller, University of Toronto

> > The Organization of Craft Technologies in the Indus Urban

Center

> > 12:30-1:45 Lunch

> >

> > Introduction: Bradley K. Hawkins, Department of Religious

Studies,

> > CSULB

> >

> > Luncheon Speaker: Gregory L. Possehl, University of

Pennsylvania

> > Excavations at Gilund and their Insights into the Indus

> > Civilization.

> >

> > Luncheon hosted by Uka and Nalini Solanki.

> > 2:00-3:30 Panel 3 - Issues and Perspectives

> >

> > Uka Solanki, Plantinum Donor: The Solanki Lecture Series

> >

> > Moderator, Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, University of

Wisconsin

> >

> > Steve Farmer, Palo Alto

> > 'Writing' or Non-Linguistic Symbols? The Myth of the

Literate

> > Indus Valley

> >

> > Vasant S. Shinde, Deccan College/Postgraduate

Research Institute

> > (Pune)

> > The Chalcolithic Cultures of Rajasthan

> >

> > Ihsan Ali, University of Peshawar, Pakistan

> > Early Historic Archaeology of the Frontier Province,

Pakistan

> >

> > Shereen Ratnagar, Jawaharlal Nehru University

> > Indology or Anthropology: Some Issues in Harappan Studies

> > 3:30-4:15 Panel 4 - Special Presentation

> >

> > Moderator, Shiva G. Bajpai, California State University,

Northridge

> >

> > B.B. Lal, Former Director General, Archaeological Survey of

India

> > Who could have been the Authors of the Harappan

Civilization? A

> > Fresh Analysis of the Recent Data

> >

> > Iravatham Mahadevan, University of Chennai, Indian

Administrative

> > Service (Retired)

> > Reflections on the Indus Script

> > 4:15-5:15 Plenary Session

> >

> > Moderator, D.R. SarDesai, University of California, Los

Angeles

> >

> > Summary Remarks:

> >

> > Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, University of Wisconsin

> > Richard H. Meadow, Harvard University

> > Gregory L. Possehl, University of Pennsylvania

> >

> > Expression of Appreciation:Bhupesh Parikh, Platinum

Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> > Last updated October 16, 2003

> >

> >

> > INDOLOGY, "mkelkar2003"

<smykelkar@c...> wrote:

> >> http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=331237

> >>

> >>

> >> In October 2003, California State University, (CA), USA, held

a

> >> conference on "The Rise of Civilisation in the Greater Indus

Valley

> >> and Saraswati: Recent Interpretations."

> >>

> >> The participants included Prof BB Lal, former-General, ASI;

> >> Mr Iravatham Mahad evan, expert on Harappan and Tamil

Brahmi scripts;

> >> Left academic Dr Shireen Ratnakar; Dr Vasant Shinde and

Dr Gregory

> >> Possehl who are excavating Gilund in Rajasthan;

anthropologists Dr

> >> Steve Farmer and Dr Brian Hemphill who have worked on

archaeological

> >> evidence through skeletal remains; Prof Jonathan Mark

Kenoyer and Dr

> >> Richard Meadow who have worked extensively on Harappa

sites; Prof DR

> >> Sar Desai, University of California, Los Angeles; Prof Ihsan

Ali,

> >> University of Peshawar, Pakistan; and Prof Kaminsky.

> >>

> >> The conference proved to be epochal as academics arrived

at a

> >> consensus on the "End of the Aryan invasion theory". Its

moderator, Dr

> >> Sar Desai, declared that future writings on Indian history

would

> >> assert that there was no Aryan invasion of India. The

organiser, Prof

> >> Kaminsky, was authorised to get in touch with authors of

Indian

> >> history textbooks and introduce this consensus at the

secondary and

> >> high school level, where falsehoods are still being

perpetuated.

> >>

> >> Prof Kenoyer contacted publishers of school textbooks in

New York to

> >> revise the issue of the Aryans and Vedic-Harappan culture

in American

> >> school textbooks. In fact, the conference organisers have

written to

> >> school level educational institutions all over the world,

including

> >> the NCERT in India.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> Michael Witzel

> Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University

> 1 Bow Street , Cambridge MA 02138

> 1-617-495 3295 Fax: 496 8571

> direct line: 496 2990

> http://witzel@f.../~witzel/mwpage.htm

>

>

>