Conference on Indus Valley/Saraswati

[Guest guest]

http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=331237

 

 

In October 2003, California State University, (CA), USA, held a

conference on "The Rise of Civilisation in the Greater Indus Valley

and Saraswati: Recent Interpretations."

 

The participants included Prof BB Lal, former Director-General, ASI;

Mr Iravatham Mahad evan, expert on Harappan and Tamil Brahmi scripts;

Left academic Dr Shireen Ratnakar; Dr Vasant Shinde and Dr Gregory

Possehl who are excavating Gilund in Rajasthan; anthropologists Dr

Steve Farmer and Dr Brian Hemphill who have worked on archaeological

evidence through skeletal remains; Prof Jonathan Mark Kenoyer and Dr

Richard Meadow who have worked extensively on Harappa sites; Prof DR

Sar Desai, University of California, Los Angeles; Prof Ihsan Ali,

University of Peshawar, Pakistan; and Prof Kaminsky.

 

The conference proved to be epochal as academics arrived at a

consensus on the "End of the Aryan invasion theory". Its moderator, Dr

Sar Desai, declared that future writings on Indian history would

assert that there was no Aryan invasion of India. The organiser, Prof

Kaminsky, was authorised to get in touch with authors of Indian

history textbooks and introduce this consensus at the secondary and

high school level, where falsehoods are still being perpetuated.

 

Prof Kenoyer contacted publishers of school textbooks in New York to

revise the issue of the Aryans and Vedic-Harappan culture in American

school textbooks. In fact, the conference organisers have written to

school level educational institutions all over the world, including

the NCERT in India.

[Guest guest]

I don't normally post on this List, but...

 

mkelkar writes (repeating text from far-right _Pioneer_), about the October Long

Beach conference on Indus Civilization:

 

> The participants included... anthropologists Dr

> Steve Farmer and Dr Brian Hemphill who have worked on archaeological

> evidence through skeletal remains...

 

I'm not an anthropologist and certainly don't work on skeletal remains:

I'm a comparative historian. My talk presented evidence that has emerged

over the last 3 years that the so-called Indus script is not "writing"

but a nonlinguistic symbol system -- i.e., that the Harappans were

illiterate. The statistical evidence that the symbols could not be

speech encoding is irrefutable. For my slides from that talk (and

related papers) see http://www.safarmer.com/downloads .

 

mkelar continues (quoting _The Pioneer_ article):

 

>> The conference proved to be epochal as academics arrived at a

>> consensus on the "End of the Aryan invasion theory". Its moderator, Dr

>> Sar Desai, declared that future writings on Indian history would

>> assert that there was no Aryan invasion of India.

 

Hogwash. Nothing like this was concluded, and there certainly

wasn't a consensus. When Sar Desai said this at the end of the

conference, and declared as well that the name of the Indus Valley

civilization from here on was to be "Saraswati-Sindhu

Civilization," or whatever, all Western researchers there groaned

and rolled their eyes.

 

Steve Farmer

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Kelkar,

 

Thanks for posting the information about this conference. I have no

doubt that Dr. Sardesai believes in what he says. I would like to

read the articles by the participants themselves. By the way, could

someone point out the titles of the relevant publications by Dr. Sar

Desai. I would like to see if our university library holds them. Are

the proceedings of this conference going to be published? I would

appreciate a bibliographic reference. Best,

 

Madhav Deshpande

 

 

INDOLOGY, "mkelkar2003" <smykelkar@c...> wrote:

> http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=331237

>

>

> In October 2003, California State University, (CA), USA, held a

> conference on "The Rise of Civilisation in the Greater Indus Valley

> and Saraswati: Recent Interpretations."

>

> The participants included Prof BB Lal, former Director-General, ASI;

> Mr Iravatham Mahad evan, expert on Harappan and Tamil Brahmi scripts;

> Left academic Dr Shireen Ratnakar; Dr Vasant Shinde and Dr Gregory

> Possehl who are excavating Gilund in Rajasthan; anthropologists Dr

> Steve Farmer and Dr Brian Hemphill who have worked on archaeological

> evidence through skeletal remains; Prof Jonathan Mark Kenoyer and Dr

> Richard Meadow who have worked extensively on Harappa sites; Prof DR

> Sar Desai, University of California, Los Angeles; Prof Ihsan Ali,

> University of Peshawar, Pakistan; and Prof Kaminsky.

>

> The conference proved to be epochal as academics arrived at a

> consensus on the "End of the Aryan invasion theory". Its moderator, Dr

> Sar Desai, declared that future writings on Indian history would

> assert that there was no Aryan invasion of India. The organiser, Prof

> Kaminsky, was authorised to get in touch with authors of Indian

> history textbooks and introduce this consensus at the secondary and

> high school level, where falsehoods are still being perpetuated.

>

> Prof Kenoyer contacted publishers of school textbooks in New York to

> revise the issue of the Aryans and Vedic-Harappan culture in American

> school textbooks. In fact, the conference organisers have written to

> school level educational institutions all over the world, including

> the NCERT in India.

[Guest guest]

On the web, I found the detailed program of the conference reported by

Shri Kelkar. While I have no doubt about what Dr. SarDesai evidently

concluded at the end of the conference, the names of the participants

and the titles of the papers seem to convey a different focus, not

the OIT or the Vedic character of Indus. Steve Farmer, one of the

participants in the conference, reports that the participants were

shocked to hear the statements of Dr. SarDesai, who was not a

participant, but a moderator, and did not present a paper himself. I

am waiting to see the published proceedings of the conference, but in

the mean time, here is the full program of the conference.

 

Madhav Deshpande

 

 

The Rise of Civilization in the Greater Indus Valley and Saraswati:

Recent Interpretations

 

University Student Union

California State University, Long Beach

 

Saturday, October 18, 2003

 

 

 

8:30-9:00 Coffee

 

9:00-9:15 Welcoming Remarks:

 

Arnold P. Kaminsky, Conference Organizer, CSULB

Robert Maxson, President, CSULB

Dean Dorothy Abrahamse, College of Liberal Arts, CSULB

 

Greetings: Navin Doshi, Platinum Sponsor

9:15-9:35 Opening Remarks:

 

Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, University of Wisconsin

The Indus Civilization and Its Modern Relevance

9:40-10:50 Panel 1 - The Indus Civilization: Overviews of Chronology

and Biological Dimensions

 

Moderator, Gregory L. Possehl, University of Pennsylvania

 

Richard H. Meadow, Harvard University

The Development of the Indus Civilization: Chronology and Geography

 

Brian Hemphill, California State University, Bakersfield

Bioanthropology of the Indus Valley: Overview, Neolithic to Late

Harappan

 

Steven Weber, Washington State University Vancouver

Palaeoethnobotany of the Indus Civilization: Overview, Early to

Late Harappan

 

Ajita Patel, Harvard University

Zooarchaeology of the Harappan World: Issues and Insights into the

Development of Pastoralism in Northwestern South Asia

10:50-11:15 Coffee Break

11:15-12:30 Panel 2 - Urbanization and Trade in the Indus Region

 

Moderator, Richard H. Meadow, Harvard University

 

Rita Wright, New York University

Tracing the Urban Process: City and Countryside in the Upper Indus

Valley

 

Randall Law, University of Wisconsin

Internal Trade and Raw Materials in the Indus Region: Overview,

Early to Late Harappan

 

Heather M.-L. Miller, University of Toronto

The Organization of Craft Technologies in the Indus Urban Center

12:30-1:45 Lunch

 

Introduction: Bradley K. Hawkins, Department of Religious Studies,

CSULB

 

Luncheon Speaker: Gregory L. Possehl, University of Pennsylvania

Excavations at Gilund and their Insights into the Indus Civilization.

 

Luncheon hosted by Uka and Nalini Solanki.

2:00-3:30 Panel 3 - Issues and Perspectives

 

Uka Solanki, Plantinum Donor: The Solanki Lecture Series

 

Moderator, Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, University of Wisconsin

 

Steve Farmer, Palo Alto

'Writing' or Non-Linguistic Symbols? The Myth of the Literate

Indus Valley

 

Vasant S. Shinde, Deccan College/Postgraduate Research Institute

(Pune)

The Chalcolithic Cultures of Rajasthan

 

Ihsan Ali, University of Peshawar, Pakistan

Early Historic Archaeology of the Frontier Province, Pakistan

 

Shereen Ratnagar, Jawaharlal Nehru University

Indology or Anthropology: Some Issues in Harappan Studies

3:30-4:15 Panel 4 - Special Presentation

 

Moderator, Shiva G. Bajpai, California State University, Northridge

 

B.B. Lal, Former Director General, Archaeological Survey of India

Who could have been the Authors of the Harappan Civilization? A

Fresh Analysis of the Recent Data

 

Iravatham Mahadevan, University of Chennai, Indian Administrative

Service (Retired)

Reflections on the Indus Script

4:15-5:15 Plenary Session

 

Moderator, D.R. SarDesai, University of California, Los Angeles

 

Summary Remarks:

 

Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, University of Wisconsin

Richard H. Meadow, Harvard University

Gregory L. Possehl, University of Pennsylvania

 

Expression of Appreciation:Bhupesh Parikh, Platinum Sponsor

 

 

 

Last updated October 16, 2003

 

 

INDOLOGY, "mkelkar2003" <smykelkar@c...> wrote:

> http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=331237

>

>

> In October 2003, California State University, (CA), USA, held a

> conference on "The Rise of Civilisation in the Greater Indus Valley

> and Saraswati: Recent Interpretations."

>

> The participants included Prof BB Lal, former Director-General, ASI;

> Mr Iravatham Mahad evan, expert on Harappan and Tamil Brahmi scripts;

> Left academic Dr Shireen Ratnakar; Dr Vasant Shinde and Dr Gregory

> Possehl who are excavating Gilund in Rajasthan; anthropologists Dr

> Steve Farmer and Dr Brian Hemphill who have worked on archaeological

> evidence through skeletal remains; Prof Jonathan Mark Kenoyer and Dr

> Richard Meadow who have worked extensively on Harappa sites; Prof DR

> Sar Desai, University of California, Los Angeles; Prof Ihsan Ali,

> University of Peshawar, Pakistan; and Prof Kaminsky.

>

> The conference proved to be epochal as academics arrived at a

> consensus on the "End of the Aryan invasion theory". Its moderator, Dr

> Sar Desai, declared that future writings on Indian history would

> assert that there was no Aryan invasion of India. The organiser, Prof

> Kaminsky, was authorised to get in touch with authors of Indian

> history textbooks and introduce this consensus at the secondary and

> high school level, where falsehoods are still being perpetuated.

>

> Prof Kenoyer contacted publishers of school textbooks in New York to

> revise the issue of the Aryans and Vedic-Harappan culture in American

> school textbooks. In fact, the conference organisers have written to

> school level educational institutions all over the world, including

> the NCERT in India.

[Guest guest]

Could some one please confirm this from Prof Kenoyer? Thanks!

 

Mayuresh Kelkar

 

 

>Prof Kenoyer contacted publishers of school textbooks in New York to

> revise the issue of the Aryans and Vedic-Harappan culture in American

> school textbooks. In fact, the conference organisers have written to

> school level educational institutions all over the world, including

> the NCERT in India.

[Guest guest]

INDOLOGY, "mkelkar2003" <smykelkar@c...> wrote:

>... Prof Kenoyer contacted publishers of school textbooks

>in New York to revise the issue of the Aryans and

>Vedic-Harappan culture in American school textbooks.

>In fact, the conference organisers have written to

>school level educational institutions ...

 

Will be interested to read Prof. Kenoyer's writings

in the Conference proceedings. In his book, Kenoyer

mentions a possibility by some Indologists.

JMK, Ancient cities of the Indus valley civilization,

p. 78, "At present, no modern language can be directly

traced to the Indus script, but most scholars agree

that it belongs to the Dravidian langauge family."

 

p. 78-79, "Proto-Dravidian root words were originally

monosyllabic. Using the rebus approach, scholars

have identified key words that may represent the

general meaning of specific Indus signs. The most

convincinge example is the fish sign. The dravidian

root for fish is "min" and the same word means

"to glitter, flash or shine." The fish sign combined

with six single strokes is very common in the Indus

writing, and it could be translated as "aru min" or

Six Stars, which would represent the constellation

Pleiades. Another common occurrence is the fish sign

with seven stars. In Dravidian this would translate as

"elu-min" or Seven Stars, which is the name for the

constellation of Seven Sages (Ursa Major or the Big Dipper)."

 

Perhaps, Kenoyer uses well known arguments for

the Indus fish sign such as

""Father Heras compared the sequence of '6' + 'fish' to the

Old Tamil name of the Pleiades, aRu-mI_n, literally '6 stars'.

Dr. Nikita Gurov proposed to read '3' + 'fish' as mum-mIn,

which is the Old Tamil name of the M.rga'sIr.sa constellation.

And I pointed out that '7' + 'fish' corresponds to the old Tamil

name of the Big Dipper, e_lu-mIn. This sequence forms

the enire inscription in one large seal from Harappa (fig. 20).

These astral readings are based on the homophony between

the Tamil and Proto-Drav. words, mii_n 'fish' and mii_n 'star'

(fig. 21). This linguistic association seems to be reflected

even on Harappan painted pottery from Amri, where the

motifs of 'fish' and 'star' co-occur (fig. 22)."

(A. Parpola. Deciphering the Indus script: methods and select

interpretations. Keynote address delivered at the 25th annual

south asia conference, Madison, WI, Oct. 1996.)

 

N. Ganesan