Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 > I guess the Scandinavians (M. Fosse is one, from Norway) > were indeed great empire builders, from New Foundland to > Greenland, Iceland and Russia, Normandy, England, Ireland and Sicily > -- but that was 1000 years ago, and I fail to detect a great > Norwegian imperium in India. For once, Michael Witzel's comments may not be entirely accurate. It is true that Scandinavians established kingdoms in various places (the Norwegians in Ireland, the Swedes in Russia, the Danes in England), but these were mostly independent statelets and fairly shortlived. Norway was at its most powerful in the 13th century, when the central power controlled not only mainland Norway, but also the British islands to the north of Scotland as well as Greenland and Iceland. Typically places where polite Europeans would prefer not to live. In the 11th century, king Harald the Hardruler made a botched attempt to conquer England, but had the lack of good sense to get an arrow through his throat (happens when you fight without your armour). Instead, William the Conqueror (a frenchified Norwegian) took control of the place. The "Noregsvelde" (the Norwegian Empire) of the 13th century was short-lived and inconsequential. The Norsemen who conquered Sicily had been French really for 200 years or so (but were apparently still regarded as singularly bad-mannered and quarrelsome by the French). However, after Norway merged with Denmark, the Twin Kingdoms were able to acquire a small colony in India. Norwegians, of course, felt colonized themselves (killing Danish taxmen was popular), but I suppose we cannot entirely deny just a tiny inkling of empire-building down in Tamil Nadu (Tranquebar). The place was for a long period run by a Norwegian viceroy (who got promoted every time he begged to be sent home. He returned a general). > Show me the imperial-minded Western scholar in Scandinavia... > Some people see ghosts and conspiracies everywhere... Well, of course, Michael is right: Scandinavians are against imperialism as a matter of principle. Also, we don't have the power and wherewithall to run imperialist projects ourselves, which makes it good idea to be against such things. Best regards, Lars Martin Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse DO NOT OPEN UNEXPECTED ATTACHMENTS. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS BEING ABUSED BY MALICIOUS OPERATORS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Am Mittwoch, 10. Dezember 2003 14:08 schrieb Lars Martin Fosse: > > I guess the Scandinavians (M. Fosse is one, from Norway) > > were indeed great empire builders, [...] > > but that was 1000 years ago, and I fail to detect a great > > Norwegian imperium in India. > > [...] > However, after Norway merged with Denmark, the Twin Kingdoms were > able to acquire a small colony in India. [...] BUT... now comes the revelation we've all been waiting for! Among a new shipment of books from India that arrived yesterday, I found one titled _Hindu Superiority_ by one Har Bilas Sarda (reprint of a 1906 book), which contains a short chapter titled "Scandinavians" (in the part "HIndu Colonization of the World"), and there we read: «The Scandinavians are the descendents of the Hindu Kshatriyas. The term Scandinavian and the Hindu "Kshatriya" or the warrior caste, are identical, the former being a Sanskrit equivalent for the latter: "Scanda Nabhi" (Scanda Navi) signifies Scanda Chiefs (Warrior Chiefs).» Apparently 'research' has been done on this by one Count Bjornstjerna, who also wrote: «We can scarcely question... the derivation of the _Edda_ (the religious book of ancient Scandinavia) from the Vedas.» (The same author also sees the Scandinavian names for days of the week as derived from something Indian: «Saturday is called Saniwaram by the Hindus, after Sanischar, the god who cleanses spiritually; it is named Lordag by the Scandinavians from loger, bathing.») > > Show me the imperial-minded Western scholar in Scandinavia... > > Some people see ghosts and conspiracies everywhere... In other words: we may assume, on the word of the above-quoted 'authorities', that the Twin Kingdoms did NOT "acquire a small colony in India", as Lars says, but merely reclaimed a little bit of what has always been rightfully theirs. No conspiracy! So maybe it's time to get the VHP out of Ayodhya and let the true kshatriyas set things straight! Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Institut für Indologie Universität München Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Dear Robert, Your ridicule on "authorities" by citing an obscure book is a real challenge to scholarship. While I do not know the origin of such book, the depiction with the tone does make an interesting perspective on the mindset of the "new authorities". Such postings are insensitive to thousands of us who come from India and do take pride in India's scholarship and our own. Hope you would think a bit before asserting generalizations. I am sorry for this unhappy incident. Best regards, Bijoy Misra On Fri, 19 Dec 2003, Robert Zydenbos wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 10. Dezember 2003 14:08 schrieb Lars Martin Fosse: > > > > I guess the Scandinavians (M. Fosse is one, from Norway) > > > were indeed great empire builders, [...] > > > but that was 1000 years ago, and I fail to detect a great > > > Norwegian imperium in India. > > > > [...] > > However, after Norway merged with Denmark, the Twin Kingdoms were > > able to acquire a small colony in India. [...] > > BUT... now comes the revelation we've all been waiting for! Among a new > shipment of books from India that arrived yesterday, I found one titled > _Hindu Superiority_ by one Har Bilas Sarda (reprint of a 1906 book), > which contains a short chapter titled "Scandinavians" (in the part > "HIndu Colonization of the World"), and there we read: «The > Scandinavians are the descendents of the Hindu Kshatriyas. The term > Scandinavian and the Hindu "Kshatriya" or the warrior caste, are > identical, the former being a Sanskrit equivalent for the latter: > "Scanda Nabhi" (Scanda Navi) signifies Scanda Chiefs (Warrior Chiefs).» > > Apparently 'research' has been done on this by one Count Bjornstjerna, > who also wrote: «We can scarcely question... the derivation of the > _Edda_ (the religious book of ancient Scandinavia) from the Vedas.» > (The same author also sees the Scandinavian names for days of the week > as derived from something Indian: «Saturday is called Saniwaram by the > Hindus, after Sanischar, the god who cleanses spiritually; it is named > Lordag by the Scandinavians from loger, bathing.») > > > > Show me the imperial-minded Western scholar in Scandinavia... > > > Some people see ghosts and conspiracies everywhere... > > In other words: we may assume, on the word of the above-quoted > 'authorities', that the Twin Kingdoms did NOT "acquire a small colony > in India", as Lars says, but merely reclaimed a little bit of what has > always been rightfully theirs. No conspiracy! > > So maybe it's time to get the VHP out of Ayodhya and let the true > kshatriyas set things straight! > > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Institut für Indologie > Universität München > > > > indology > > > > > Links > > > INDOLOGY/ > > > INDOLOGY > > Your > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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