[Y-Indology] "kart,r-vaacya karma.ni prayoga" in Hindii

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr Manish Modi,

 

Many thanks for your reply to my query.

 

> Verbs have no gender, voice, or singular / plural of their own. They

either

> agree with object, (Karma Vaachya), or they agree with the subject (Kartri

> Vaachya). When they agree with neither, it is Bhav Vaachya.

>

> In case of Karma Prayog, the subject has the nominative marker "ne".

>

> Examples of Karma Vaachya -

>

> Maine granth padha.

>

> Maine pustak padhi.

>

So your view about vaacya tallies with that of Pt Ki;soriidaasa

Vaajapeyii, who decides the type of vaacya on the basis of word form only.

Kaamataa Prasasda Guru considers both form and meaning.

 

I am a bit sceptical about your reply on one ground. Father Kaamil

Bulke in his "An English-Hindi Dictionary" gives the meaning of "passive

voice" in the grammatical context as "karma-vaacya". As per definition and

example of karma-vaacya given by you, the sentence " Maine pustak padhi"

must be passive voice. But is it really an example of passive voice ? I

think, many grammarians would like to call it active voice.

 

Regards.

Narayan Prasad

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Narayan Prasad <prasad_cwprs wrote:Dear Mr Manish Modi,

 

Many thanks for your reply to my query.

 

> Verbs have no gender, voice, or singular / plural of their own. They

either

> agree with object, (Karma Vaachya), or they agree with the subject (Kartri

> Vaachya). When they agree with neither, it is Bhav Vaachya.

>

> In case of Karma Prayog, the subject has the nominative marker "ne".

>

> Examples of Karma Vaachya -

>

> Maine granth padha.

>

> Maine pustak padhi.

>

So your view about vaacya tallies with that of Pt Ki;soriidaasa

Vaajapeyii, who decides the type of vaacya on the basis of word form only.

Kaamataa Prasasda Guru considers both form and meaning.

 

I am a bit sceptical about your reply on one ground. Father Kaamil

Bulke in his "An English-Hindi Dictionary" gives the meaning of "passive

voice" in the grammatical context as "karma-vaacya". As per definition and

example of karma-vaacya given by you, the sentence " Maine pustak padhi"

must be passive voice. But is it really an example of passive voice ? I

think, many grammarians would like to call it active voice.

 

Regards.

Narayan Prasad

 

 

 

 

 

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indology

 

 

 

 

 

so unlike greek where the verb has number, mood and aspect(tense)

 

jaison

 

 

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Box 133, Otterburne,

MB R0A 1G0, Canada.

 

Phone: ___ 204 433 3872

email: jaison37

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Prasad,

Jai Jinendra

 

With due respect both the great Vaiyyakarans and masters of Bhasha Vigyan

you have named, Passive Voice is not used in Hindi. It only appears only in

translation. Its construction sounds odd in Hindi.

 

I mean, in English it would be fairly common to say, "This work has been done

by us!"

 

But in Hindi, it would sound odd to say, "Yeh kam hamare dwara kiya gaya."

This kind of construction is absent in Hindi.

 

With the large scale rush in Indians for an English medium education, Hindi

has begun evolving in ways that are foreign to it. Western influence,

especially the English language has made great inroads in the way we speak

and write Hindi.

 

One example that comes to mind is that way a conversation is recorded in

English. It would be written as :-

 

I said, "Do this".

 

In Manak Hindi, the Hindi of Babu Ramchandra Verma, and Babu Gulab Rai, this

would be written as:-

 

Maine kaha, yeh kar do.

 

No inverted commas would be used to record speech.

 

But nowaday, we write the same sentence as:

 

Maine kaha, "Yeh kar do".

 

So, I guess one will have to accept the Passive voice in Hindi. But in the

Hindi that Premchand and Jaishankar Prasad, Mahadevi Verma, Hajariprasad

Dwivedi, Jainendra Kumar and Amritlal Nagar used, this form of sentence

construction was absent. The passive voice was not used in conventional Hindi.

 

"Modern" Hindi lipi is being bastardised, with beautiful Devnagari letters

like "Ksha" (as in Kshatriya), "Gya" ("Jna" in Sanskrit), and "Rir" (as in

Rishi) simply being taken off the textbooks. Already, letters like "Reer"

(the deergh "Rir"), the "Lri" and the "Lree", and the fifth letters of the Ka

Varg and the Cha Varg have been consigned to oblivion. Students these days

are not taught about the "Vargs" in Hindi - the Ka varg, Cha Varg, etc. That

is why even large corporates, owned by Hindi speaking owners use letters from

the wrong Varg while spelling their own corporate names in Hindi.

 

For instance, Birla Cement spells the word Cement in Hindi as:-

 

"Sa" + chhoti "i" ki matra + "Ma" + "ey" ki matra + half "na" (soft na) + "Ta"

(hard Ta).

 

Whereas, one should spell the half na with the hard Na, in accordance with the

hard Ta Varg, as:-

 

"Sa" + chhoti "i" ki matra + "Ma" + "ey" ki matra + half "Na" (hard Na) +

"Ta" (hard Ta).

 

The word Bank in Hindi is spelled wrongly as:-

 

"Ba" + "aii" ki matra + half "na" (soft na) + ka.

 

Whereas, one should replace the "half na" with the "Unng", in accordance

with the Ka Varg. Or at least use an "Anusvar" on top of the letter "Ba"!

Using the wrong fifth letter of the alphabet is an anathema!

 

It is far better to take Prakrit's lead and represent the fifth letter of

each Varg with the Anuswar rather than use the fifth letter of the

wrong Varg!

 

I apologise for the length of this posting.

 

Uttam Kshama

 

Manish

 

HINDI GRANTH KARYALAY

www.hindibooks.8m.com

[Guest guest]

Dear Manish-jii,

Jai Jinendra

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I was out for three weeks. Hence there is delay in my response to your

message.

 

>

> "Modern" Hindi lipi is being bastardised, with beautiful Devnagari letters

> like "Ksha" (as in Kshatriya), "Gya" ("Jna" in Sanskrit), and "Rir" (as in

> Rishi) simply being taken off the textbooks.

>

I do not know which Hindii textbooks you are talking of. The three

letters you have mentioned are still widely used in textbooks.

 

>

> .... and the fifth letters of the Ka Varg and the Cha Varg have been

consigned to oblivion.

>

Your statement may be true in case of the latter, but certainly not in

case of the former. For example, there is no alternative spelling in the

devanaagarii for the word "vaa;mmaya"(pronounced vaangmay).

 

>That is why even large corporates, owned by Hindi speaking owners

>use letters from the wrong Varg while spelling their own corporate

>names in Hindi.

>

> For instance, Birla Cement spells the word Cement in Hindi as:-

>

> "Sa" + chhoti "i" ki matra + "Ma" + "ey" ki matra + half "na" (soft na) +

>"Ta" (hard Ta).

>

> Whereas, one should spell the half na with the hard Na, in accordance with

>the hard Ta Varg, as:-

>

> "Sa" + chhoti "i" ki matra + "Ma" + "ey" ki matra + half "Na" (hard Na) +

> "Ta" (hard Ta).

>

What about the hindii spelling for "station"? As per your logic, it

should start with the cerebral S and not the dental s. But even great hindii

scholars spell it with the dental s and in doing so they are not wrong. The

idea here is to keep the nature of a borrowed word same as or nearest to the

one in its parent language.

 

Regards.

 

Narayan Prasad

 

-

"Manish Modi" <manish.modi

<INDOLOGY>

Saturday, October 26, 2002 9:23 AM

Re: [Y-Indology] "kart,r-vaacya karma.ni prayoga" in Hindii

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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