Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 > Q: Is it not good to acquire occult powers such as telepathy? > > M: Occult powers are only in the realm of the mind. Concerning telepathy, > what is the difference between hearing from far away or nearby? There can > be no telepathy without a receiver, and no clairvoyance without a seer. > That is what matters. Both telepathy and the radio enable one to see and > hear from far away. The hearing and the seeing are the same. Whether one > hears from near or far does not make any difference to the one who hears. > The fundamental factor is the hearer, the subject. Without the hearer or > seer there can be no hearing or seeing. The latter arc both functions of > the mind. The occult powers are only of the mind, they are not natural to > the Self. That which is not natural, but acquired, cannot be permanent, > and it is not worth trying for. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > From the book, "Conscious Immortality" by Paul Brunton and Munagala > Venkataramiah, published by Sri Ramanasramam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Dear Namsivayam, the reason why we do not place importance on visions is that they are impermanent, they come and go. We are interested in the eternal never changing Self. Someone told Bhagawan that he sometimes saw Lord Krshna. Bhagawan asked him what the use of a God is, that keeps disappearing. In Mahayoga we are rejecting everything other than Self, as only the Self is permanent and every other phenomenon comes and goes, is fleeting. For your sadhana that means, you have to hold on to the never changing witness of these visions, as Gabriele also pointed out. Seek the one who is having the visions? Hold on to the feeling of pure being consciousness and let the visions rise and fall. The witness will be the same, you'll find. Visions are there to keep us going in our sadhana. No more and no less. I have had many visions and they make nice memories. But they are of no value in themselves. Om Arunachala Shiva Chris On Nov 11, 2004, at 23:51, gabriele ebert wrote: > Dear Namasivayam, > > There will be no answer to your question ... or many answers can be > found ... > Some may have visions ... other don't have ... yet the meditator is > always the same. > It may not be so important if there are visions or not ... > And if any surely one should not spend the time in counting them. > This would be absurd. > This is like you are going through a street and count what you are > seeing. > It may be a playful entertainment at times though. > > Bhagavan advices to cling to the meditator, not to the visions. > The one who meditates is always there. This is good, isn't it? So one > needs neither care > if visions nor if no visions. > > Some say, visions may happen when meditation reaches a certain debth > or is done intently. But here > someone else - more experienced - should then answer. > I myself had one vision-like experience once only ... which had to do > with Bhagavan ... > and it never repeated I like to remember as it told something what > is still felt > much important to be understood in Bhagavan's teaching. So the > importance I feel is not in the > happening of the vision - but what it was pointing to. > > In Zen I have learned from teachers, that they say, if a vision comes > - and even if it is that of Buddha - > one should kill this vision-Buddha. > This may point to the same as in Bhagavan's atma vichara, where one > asks deep within: > to whom does it - the vision - appear - and hold to that and not to > the vision. > > Kind regards > Gabriele > > > - > nama siva > RamanaMaharshi > Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:46 AM > Re: [RamanaMaharshi] From Conscious Immortality > > During medtation as a beginner i have visualise many > images. i have recorded about 200 images. > Some are in abstract form. > I dont know why such kind of images are seen during > meditation > namasivayam > --- Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > > > > > Beyond Yoga > > > > Paul Brunton writes: > > > > > > The Maharshi is unvarying in his attitude towards > > psychic visions. Even > > > when his disciples report that his own picture has > > appeared to them, > > > transfigured in brilliant light, be counsels them > > to put aside all "form" > > > and to remember that what is thus seen is > > perishable; what has an origin > > > must have an end; it is the intuitive perception > > of the Self that must be > > > seized. > > > > > > A devotee claimed he had gone to Mathura and seen > > Krishna in a vision. The > > > Maharshi responded: > > > > > > M: The seer, the seen and the seeing were all one, > > all within yourself. > > > Nobody else saw it. It was your own fancy, and > > yet it is also true that > > > you really did see it. > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > From the book, "Conscious Immortality" by Paul > > Brunton and Munagala > > > Venkataramiah, published by Sri Ramanasramam, > > Tiruvannamalai, South India. > > > > > > > > > > > Check out the new Front Page. > www. > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > Eliminate Your Debt! > > · > Get out of Debt Now · Christian counselors available > > · > Click here to find out how you can become free from debt. > > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > RamanaMaharshi/ > > • > RamanaMaharshi > > • Terms of > Service. > > > Monsoonhouse Int. Kovalam/Kerala contact: christianecameron Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Dear chris, Ok but my inner feels that the visions are having some meanimg. Three years back i happened to read THIRUMANTHIRM I felt that some verses communicating certain images which are i have earlier drawn . namasivayam .. --- christiane cameron <christianecameron wrote: > Dear Namsivayam, > > the reason why we do not place importance on > visions is that they are > impermanent, they come and go. We are interested in > the eternal never > changing Self. Someone told Bhagawan that he > sometimes saw Lord Krshna. > Bhagawan asked him what the use of a God is, that > keeps disappearing. > In Mahayoga we are rejecting everything other than > Self, as only the > Self is permanent and every other phenomenon comes > and goes, is > fleeting. For your sadhana that means, you have to > hold on to the never > changing witness of these visions, as Gabriele also > pointed out. Seek > the one who is having the visions? Hold on to the > feeling of pure being > consciousness and let the visions rise and fall. The > witness will be > the same, you'll find. > > Visions are there to keep us going in our sadhana. > No more and no less. > I have had many visions and they make nice memories. > But they are of no > value in themselves. > > Om Arunachala Shiva > > Chris > > > > > On Nov 11, 2004, at 23:51, gabriele ebert wrote: > > > Dear Namasivayam, > > > > There will be no answer to your question ... or > many answers can be > > found ... > > Some may have visions ... other don't have ... yet > the meditator is > > always the same. > > It may not be so important if there are visions or > not ... > > And if any surely one should not spend the time > in counting them. > > This would be absurd. > > This is like you are going through a street and > count what you are > > seeing. > > It may be a playful entertainment at times though. > > > > Bhagavan advices to cling to the meditator, not to > the visions. > > The one who meditates is always there. This is > good, isn't it? So one > > needs neither care > > if visions nor if no visions. > > > > Some say, visions may happen when meditation > reaches a certain debth > > or is done intently. But here > > someone else - more experienced - should then > answer. > > I myself had one vision-like experience once only > ... which had to do > > with Bhagavan ... > > and it never repeated I like to remember as it > told something what > > is still felt > > much important to be understood in Bhagavan's > teaching. So the > > importance I feel is not in the > > happening of the vision - but what it was > pointing to. > > > > In Zen I have learned from teachers, that they > say, if a vision comes > > - and even if it is that of Buddha - > > one should kill this vision-Buddha. > > This may point to the same as in Bhagavan's atma > vichara, where one > > asks deep within: > > to whom does it - the vision - appear - and hold > to that and not to > > the vision. > > > > Kind regards > > Gabriele > > > > > > - > > nama siva > > RamanaMaharshi > > Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:46 AM > > Re: [RamanaMaharshi] From Conscious > Immortality > > > > During medtation as a beginner i have visualise > many > > images. i have recorded about 200 images. > > Some are in abstract form. > > I dont know why such kind of images are seen > during > > meditation > > namasivayam > > --- Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Beyond Yoga > > > > > > Paul Brunton writes: > > > > > > > > The Maharshi is unvarying in his attitude > towards > > > psychic visions. Even > > > > when his disciples report that his own picture > has > > > appeared to them, > > > > transfigured in brilliant light, be counsels > them > > > to put aside all "form" > > > > and to remember that what is thus seen is > > > perishable; what has an origin > > > > must have an end; it is the intuitive > perception > > > of the Self that must be > > > > seized. > > > > > > > > A devotee claimed he had gone to Mathura and > seen > > > Krishna in a vision. The > > > > Maharshi responded: > > > > > > > > M: The seer, the seen and the seeing were all > one, > > > all within yourself. > > > > Nobody else saw it. It was your own fancy, > and > > > yet it is also true that > > > > you really did see it. > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > From the book, "Conscious Immortality" by Paul > > > Brunton and Munagala > > > > Venkataramiah, published by Sri Ramanasramam, > > > Tiruvannamalai, South India. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Check out the new Front Page. > > www. > > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > > Subscribe: > RamanaMaharshi- > > Un: > RamanaMaharshi > > List owner: > RamanaMaharshi-owner > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > > Subscribe: > RamanaMaharshi- > > Un: > RamanaMaharshi > > List owner: > RamanaMaharshi-owner > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > > > > === message truncated === Check out the new Front Page. www. 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Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 certain visions i have found are in temples as stone imsges which i never seen before namasivayam --- gabriele ebert <g.ebert wrote: > Dear Namasivayam, > > There will be no answer to your question ... or many > answers can be found ... > Some may have visions ... other don't have ... yet > the meditator is always the same. > It may not be so important if there are visions or > not ... > And if any surely one should not spend the time in > counting them. This would be absurd. > This is like you are going through a street and > count what you are seeing. > It may be a playful entertainment at times though. > > Bhagavan advices to cling to the meditator, not to > the visions. > The one who meditates is always there. This is good, > isn't it? So one needs neither care > if visions nor if no visions. > > Some say, visions may happen when meditation reaches > a certain debth or is done intently. But here > someone else - more experienced - should then > answer. > I myself had one vision-like experience once only > ... which had to do with Bhagavan ... > and it never repeated I like to remember as it > told something what is still felt > much important to be understood in Bhagavan's > teaching. So the importance I feel is not in the > happening of the vision - but what it was pointing > to. > > In Zen I have learned from teachers, that they say, > if a vision comes - and even if it is that of Buddha > - > one should kill this vision-Buddha. > This may point to the same as in Bhagavan's atma > vichara, where one asks deep within: > to whom does it - the vision - appear - and hold to > that and not to the vision. > > Kind regards > Gabriele > > > - > nama siva > RamanaMaharshi > Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:46 AM > Re: [RamanaMaharshi] From Conscious > Immortality > > > During medtation as a beginner i have visualise > many > images. i have recorded about 200 images. > Some are in abstract form. > I dont know why such kind of images are seen > during > meditation > namasivayam > --- Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs > wrote: > > > > > > Beyond Yoga > > > > Paul Brunton writes: > > > > > > The Maharshi is unvarying in his attitude > towards > > psychic visions. Even > > > when his disciples report that his own picture > has > > appeared to them, > > > transfigured in brilliant light, be counsels > them > > to put aside all "form" > > > and to remember that what is thus seen is > > perishable; what has an origin > > > must have an end; it is the intuitive > perception > > of the Self that must be > > > seized. > > > > > > A devotee claimed he had gone to Mathura and > seen > > Krishna in a vision. The > > > Maharshi responded: > > > > > > M: The seer, the seen and the seeing were all > one, > > all within yourself. > > > Nobody else saw it. It was your own fancy, > and > > yet it is also true that > > > you really did see it. > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > From the book, "Conscious Immortality" by Paul > > Brunton and Munagala > > > Venkataramiah, published by Sri Ramanasramam, > > Tiruvannamalai, South India. > > > > > > > > > > > Check out the new Front Page. > www. > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: > RamanaMaharshi- > Un: > RamanaMaharshi > List owner: > RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > Sponsor > > Eliminate Your Debt! > · Get out of Debt > Now · Christian counselors available > · Click here to find > out how you can become free from debt. > > > > > > > > > Links > > > RamanaMaharshi/ > > b.. To from this group, send an > email to: > RamanaMaharshi > > c.. Your use of is subject to the > > > Check out the new Front Page. www. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Dear Namshivayam,, spiritual visions are an indication that the mind is getting more satvic. They give the seeker the reassurance of being on the right track and urge us on to continue with our sadhana. In Ramana Maharshi's Mahayoga we do not seek out visions. They are part of the mind, from the subtle mind, but the mind and not the Self. When I had a vision of my Lord Shiva some years ago after doing japa before, I felt that I was doing the right thing, I felt loved, special and protected. See this sentence of mine - I felt loved and protected and even special. So apart from urging me on, this vision also fed the spiritual ego and here lies a pitfall, too. Your ego can become strong because you might feel special because of the visions. So, my recommendation is to value what you get from the visions, leave it at that and find out who it is that has the visions. Warm regards chris On Nov 12, 2004, at 11:07, nama siva wrote: > > Dear chris, > Ok > but my inner feels that the visions are having some > meanimg. > Three years back i happened to read THIRUMANTHIRM > I felt that some verses communicating certain images > which are i have earlier drawn . > namasivayam > . > > --- christiane cameron <christianecameron > wrote: > >> Dear Namsivayam, >> >> the reason why we do not place importance on >> visions is that they are >> impermanent, they come and go. We are interested in >> the eternal never >> changing Self. Someone told Bhagawan that he >> sometimes saw Lord Krshna. >> Bhagawan asked him what the use of a God is, that >> keeps disappearing. >> In Mahayoga we are rejecting everything other than >> Self, as only the >> Self is permanent and every other phenomenon comes >> and goes, is >> fleeting. For your sadhana that means, you have to >> hold on to the never >> changing witness of these visions, as Gabriele also >> pointed out. Seek >> the one who is having the visions? Hold on to the >> feeling of pure being >> consciousness and let the visions rise and fall. The >> witness will be >> the same, you'll find. >> >> Visions are there to keep us going in our sadhana. >> No more and no less. >> I have had many visions and they make nice memories. >> But they are of no >> value in themselves. >> >> Om Arunachala Shiva >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 11, 2004, at 23:51, gabriele ebert wrote: >> >>> Dear Namasivayam, >>> >>> There will be no answer to your question ... or >> many answers can be >>> found ... >>> Some may have visions ... other don't have ... yet >> the meditator is >>> always the same. >>> It may not be so important if there are visions or >> not ... >>> And if any surely one should not spend the time >> in counting them. >>> This would be absurd. >>> This is like you are going through a street and >> count what you are >>> seeing. >>> It may be a playful entertainment at times though. >>> >>> Bhagavan advices to cling to the meditator, not to >> the visions. >>> The one who meditates is always there. This is >> good, isn't it? So one >>> needs neither care >>> if visions nor if no visions. >>> >>> Some say, visions may happen when meditation >> reaches a certain debth >>> or is done intently. But here >>> someone else - more experienced - should then >> answer. >>> I myself had one vision-like experience once only >> ... which had to do >>> with Bhagavan ... >>> and it never repeated I like to remember as it >> told something what >>> is still felt >>> much important to be understood in Bhagavan's >> teaching. So the >>> importance I feel is not in the >>> happening of the vision - but what it was >> pointing to. >>> >>> In Zen I have learned from teachers, that they >> say, if a vision comes >>> - and even if it is that of Buddha - >>> one should kill this vision-Buddha. >>> This may point to the same as in Bhagavan's atma >> vichara, where one >>> asks deep within: >>> to whom does it - the vision - appear - and hold >> to that and not to >>> the vision. >>> >>> Kind regards >>> Gabriele >>> >>> >>> - >>> nama siva >>> RamanaMaharshi >>> Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:46 AM >>> Re: [RamanaMaharshi] From Conscious >> Immortality >>> >>> During medtation as a beginner i have visualise >> many >>> images. i have recorded about 200 images. >>> Some are in abstract form. >>> I dont know why such kind of images are seen >> during >>> meditation >>> namasivayam >>> --- Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs >> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>> Beyond Yoga >>>> >>>> Paul Brunton writes: >>>>> >>>>> The Maharshi is unvarying in his attitude >> towards >>>> psychic visions. Even >>>>> when his disciples report that his own picture >> has >>>> appeared to them, >>>>> transfigured in brilliant light, be counsels >> them >>>> to put aside all "form" >>>>> and to remember that what is thus seen is >>>> perishable; what has an origin >>>>> must have an end; it is the intuitive >> perception >>>> of the Self that must be >>>>> seized. >>>>> >>>>> A devotee claimed he had gone to Mathura and >> seen >>>> Krishna in a vision. The >>>>> Maharshi responded: >>>>> >>>>> M: The seer, the seen and the seeing were all >> one, >>>> all within yourself. >>>>> Nobody else saw it. It was your own fancy, >> and >>>> yet it is also true that >>>>> you really did see it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> >>>>> From the book, "Conscious Immortality" by Paul >>>> Brunton and Munagala >>>>> Venkataramiah, published by Sri Ramanasramam, >>>> Tiruvannamalai, South India. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Check out the new Front Page. >>> www. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Post message: RamanaMaharshi >>> Subscribe: >> RamanaMaharshi- >>> Un: >> RamanaMaharshi >>> List owner: >> RamanaMaharshi-owner >>> >>> Shortcut URL to this page: >>> >> http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Post message: RamanaMaharshi >>> Subscribe: >> RamanaMaharshi- >>> Un: >> RamanaMaharshi >>> List owner: >> RamanaMaharshi-owner >>> >>> Shortcut URL to this page: >>> >> http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi >>> >>> >>> >> > === message truncated === > > > > > > > Check out the new Front Page. > www. > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > Links > > > > > > > > Monsoonhouse Int. 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Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Dear Chris, Unlike others i never find any God/Goddesses. Most of them in abstract I put them allin the net and have a group in namasivayam --- christiane cameron <christianecameron wrote: > Dear Namshivayam,, > > spiritual visions are an indication that the mind is > getting more > satvic. They give the seeker the reassurance of > being on the right > track and urge us on to continue with our sadhana. > In Ramana Maharshi's > Mahayoga we do not seek out visions. They are part > of the mind, from > the subtle mind, but the mind and not the Self. > > When I had a vision of my Lord Shiva some years ago > after doing japa > before, I felt that I was doing the right thing, I > felt loved, special > and protected. > See this sentence of mine - I felt loved and > protected and even > special. So apart from urging me on, this vision > also fed the spiritual > ego and here lies a pitfall, too. Your ego can > become strong because > you might feel special because of the visions. > > > So, my recommendation is to value what you get from > the visions, leave > it at that and find out who it is that has the > visions. > > Warm regards > chris > > On Nov 12, 2004, at 11:07, nama siva wrote: > > > > > Dear chris, > > Ok > > but my inner feels that the visions are having > some > > meanimg. > > Three years back i happened to read THIRUMANTHIRM > > I felt that some verses communicating certain > images > > which are i have earlier drawn . > > namasivayam > > . > > > > --- christiane cameron <christianecameron > > wrote: > > > >> Dear Namsivayam, > >> > >> the reason why we do not place importance on > >> visions is that they are > >> impermanent, they come and go. We are interested > in > >> the eternal never > >> changing Self. Someone told Bhagawan that he > >> sometimes saw Lord Krshna. > >> Bhagawan asked him what the use of a God is, that > >> keeps disappearing. > >> In Mahayoga we are rejecting everything other > than > >> Self, as only the > >> Self is permanent and every other phenomenon > comes > >> and goes, is > >> fleeting. For your sadhana that means, you have > to > >> hold on to the never > >> changing witness of these visions, as Gabriele > also > >> pointed out. Seek > >> the one who is having the visions? Hold on to the > >> feeling of pure being > >> consciousness and let the visions rise and fall. > The > >> witness will be > >> the same, you'll find. > >> > >> Visions are there to keep us going in our > sadhana. > >> No more and no less. > >> I have had many visions and they make nice > memories. > >> But they are of no > >> value in themselves. > >> > >> Om Arunachala Shiva > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Nov 11, 2004, at 23:51, gabriele ebert wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Namasivayam, > >>> > >>> There will be no answer to your question ... or > >> many answers can be > >>> found ... > >>> Some may have visions ... other don't have ... > yet > >> the meditator is > >>> always the same. > >>> It may not be so important if there are visions > or > >> not ... > >>> And if any surely one should not spend the time > >> in counting them. > >>> This would be absurd. > >>> This is like you are going through a street and > >> count what you are > >>> seeing. > >>> It may be a playful entertainment at times > though. > >>> > >>> Bhagavan advices to cling to the meditator, not > to > >> the visions. > >>> The one who meditates is always there. This is > >> good, isn't it? So one > >>> needs neither care > >>> if visions nor if no visions. > >>> > >>> Some say, visions may happen when meditation > >> reaches a certain debth > >>> or is done intently. But here > >>> someone else - more experienced - should then > >> answer. > >>> I myself had one vision-like experience once > only > >> ... which had to do > >>> with Bhagavan ... > >>> and it never repeated I like to remember as > it > >> told something what > >>> is still felt > >>> much important to be understood in Bhagavan's > >> teaching. So the > >>> importance I feel is not in the > >>> happening of the vision - but what it was > >> pointing to. > >>> > >>> In Zen I have learned from teachers, that they > >> say, if a vision comes > >>> - and even if it is that of Buddha - > >>> one should kill this vision-Buddha. > >>> This may point to the same as in Bhagavan's atma > >> vichara, where one > >>> asks deep within: > >>> to whom does it - the vision - appear - and > hold > >> to that and not to > >>> the vision. > >>> > >>> Kind regards > >>> Gabriele > >>> > >>> > >>> - > >>> nama siva > >>> RamanaMaharshi > >>> Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:46 AM > >>> Re: [RamanaMaharshi] From Conscious > >> Immortality > >>> > >>> During medtation as a beginner i have visualise > >> many > >>> images. i have recorded about 200 images. > >>> Some are in abstract form. > >>> I dont know why such kind of images are seen > >> during > >>> meditation > >>> namasivayam > >>> --- Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> Beyond Yoga > >>>> > >>>> Paul Brunton writes: > >>>>> > >>>>> The Maharshi is unvarying in his attitude > >> towards > >>>> psychic visions. Even > >>>>> when his disciples report that his own picture > >> has > >>>> appeared to them, > >>>>> transfigured in brilliant light, be counsels > >> them > >>>> to put aside all "form" > >>>>> and to remember that what is thus seen is > >>>> perishable; what has an origin > >>>>> must have an end; it is the intuitive > >> perception > >>>> of the Self that must be > >>>>> seized. > === message truncated === Check out the new Front Page. www. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Dear Namasivayam, that sounds a bit like you are having inspirations for works of art? Correct me if I am wrong. chris On Nov 13, 2004, at 02:23, nama siva wrote: > > > Dear Chris, > Unlike others i never find any God/Goddesses. > Most of them in abstract > I put them allin the net and have a group in > namasivayam > --- christiane cameron <christianecameron > wrote: > >> Dear Namshivayam,, >> >> spiritual visions are an indication that the mind is >> getting more >> satvic. They give the seeker the reassurance of >> being on the right >> track and urge us on to continue with our sadhana. >> In Ramana Maharshi's >> Mahayoga we do not seek out visions. They are part >> of the mind, from >> the subtle mind, but the mind and not the Self. >> >> When I had a vision of my Lord Shiva some years ago >> after doing japa >> before, I felt that I was doing the right thing, I >> felt loved, special >> and protected. >> See this sentence of mine - I felt loved and >> protected and even >> special. So apart from urging me on, this vision >> also fed the spiritual >> ego and here lies a pitfall, too. Your ego can >> become strong because >> you might feel special because of the visions. >> >> >> So, my recommendation is to value what you get from >> the visions, leave >> it at that and find out who it is that has the >> visions. >> >> Warm regards >> chris >> >> On Nov 12, 2004, at 11:07, nama siva wrote: >> >>> >>> Dear chris, >>> Ok >>> but my inner feels that the visions are having >> some >>> meanimg. >>> Three years back i happened to read THIRUMANTHIRM >>> I felt that some verses communicating certain >> images >>> which are i have earlier drawn . >>> namasivayam >>> . >>> >>> --- christiane cameron <christianecameron >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Namsivayam, >>>> >>>> the reason why we do not place importance on >>>> visions is that they are >>>> impermanent, they come and go. We are interested >> in >>>> the eternal never >>>> changing Self. Someone told Bhagawan that he >>>> sometimes saw Lord Krshna. >>>> Bhagawan asked him what the use of a God is, that >>>> keeps disappearing. >>>> In Mahayoga we are rejecting everything other >> than >>>> Self, as only the >>>> Self is permanent and every other phenomenon >> comes >>>> and goes, is >>>> fleeting. For your sadhana that means, you have >> to >>>> hold on to the never >>>> changing witness of these visions, as Gabriele >> also >>>> pointed out. Seek >>>> the one who is having the visions? Hold on to the >>>> feeling of pure being >>>> consciousness and let the visions rise and fall. >> The >>>> witness will be >>>> the same, you'll find. >>>> >>>> Visions are there to keep us going in our >> sadhana. >>>> No more and no less. >>>> I have had many visions and they make nice >> memories. >>>> But they are of no >>>> value in themselves. >>>> >>>> Om Arunachala Shiva >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 11, 2004, at 23:51, gabriele ebert wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Namasivayam, >>>>> >>>>> There will be no answer to your question ... or >>>> many answers can be >>>>> found ... >>>>> Some may have visions ... other don't have ... >> yet >>>> the meditator is >>>>> always the same. >>>>> It may not be so important if there are visions >> or >>>> not ... >>>>> And if any surely one should not spend the time >>>> in counting them. >>>>> This would be absurd. >>>>> This is like you are going through a street and >>>> count what you are >>>>> seeing. >>>>> It may be a playful entertainment at times >> though. >>>>> >>>>> Bhagavan advices to cling to the meditator, not >> to >>>> the visions. >>>>> The one who meditates is always there. This is >>>> good, isn't it? So one >>>>> needs neither care >>>>> if visions nor if no visions. >>>>> >>>>> Some say, visions may happen when meditation >>>> reaches a certain debth >>>>> or is done intently. But here >>>>> someone else - more experienced - should then >>>> answer. >>>>> I myself had one vision-like experience once >> only >>>> ... which had to do >>>>> with Bhagavan ... >>>>> and it never repeated I like to remember as >> it >>>> told something what >>>>> is still felt >>>>> much important to be understood in Bhagavan's >>>> teaching. So the >>>>> importance I feel is not in the >>>>> happening of the vision - but what it was >>>> pointing to. >>>>> >>>>> In Zen I have learned from teachers, that they >>>> say, if a vision comes >>>>> - and even if it is that of Buddha - >>>>> one should kill this vision-Buddha. >>>>> This may point to the same as in Bhagavan's atma >>>> vichara, where one >>>>> asks deep within: >>>>> to whom does it - the vision - appear - and >> hold >>>> to that and not to >>>>> the vision. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards >>>>> Gabriele >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - >>>>> nama siva >>>>> RamanaMaharshi >>>>> Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:46 AM >>>>> Re: [RamanaMaharshi] From Conscious >>>> Immortality >>>>> >>>>> During medtation as a beginner i have visualise >>>> many >>>>> images. i have recorded about 200 images. >>>>> Some are in abstract form. >>>>> I dont know why such kind of images are seen >>>> during >>>>> meditation >>>>> namasivayam >>>>> --- Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Beyond Yoga >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul Brunton writes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Maharshi is unvarying in his attitude >>>> towards >>>>>> psychic visions. Even >>>>>>> when his disciples report that his own picture >>>> has >>>>>> appeared to them, >>>>>>> transfigured in brilliant light, be counsels >>>> them >>>>>> to put aside all "form" >>>>>>> and to remember that what is thus seen is >>>>>> perishable; what has an origin >>>>>>> must have an end; it is the intuitive >>>> perception >>>>>> of the Self that must be >>>>>>> seized. >> > === message truncated === > > > > > > > Check out the new Front Page. > www. > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > Links > > > > > > > > Monsoonhouse Int. Kovalam/Kerala contact: christianecameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 yes you are right because i never draw a picture before that namasivayam --- christiane cameron <christianecameron wrote: > Dear Namasivayam, > > that sounds a bit like you are having inspirations > for works of art? > Correct me if I am wrong. > > > chris > > > On Nov 13, 2004, at 02:23, nama siva wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Chris, > > Unlike others i never find any God/Goddesses. > > Most of them in abstract > > I put them allin the net and have a group in > > namasivayam > > --- christiane cameron <christianecameron > > wrote: > > > >> Dear Namshivayam,, > >> > >> spiritual visions are an indication that the mind > is > >> getting more > >> satvic. They give the seeker the reassurance of > >> being on the right > >> track and urge us on to continue with our > sadhana. > >> In Ramana Maharshi's > >> Mahayoga we do not seek out visions. They are > part > >> of the mind, from > >> the subtle mind, but the mind and not the Self. > >> > >> When I had a vision of my Lord Shiva some years > ago > >> after doing japa > >> before, I felt that I was doing the right thing, > I > >> felt loved, special > >> and protected. > >> See this sentence of mine - I felt loved and > >> protected and even > >> special. So apart from urging me on, this vision > >> also fed the spiritual > >> ego and here lies a pitfall, too. Your ego can > >> become strong because > >> you might feel special because of the visions. > >> > >> > >> So, my recommendation is to value what you get > from > >> the visions, leave > >> it at that and find out who it is that has the > >> visions. > >> > >> Warm regards > >> chris > >> > >> On Nov 12, 2004, at 11:07, nama siva wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> Dear chris, > >>> Ok > >>> but my inner feels that the visions are having > >> some > >>> meanimg. > >>> Three years back i happened to read > THIRUMANTHIRM > >>> I felt that some verses communicating certain > >> images > >>> which are i have earlier drawn . > >>> namasivayam > >>> . > >>> > >>> --- christiane cameron > <christianecameron > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Dear Namsivayam, > >>>> > >>>> the reason why we do not place importance on > >>>> visions is that they are > >>>> impermanent, they come and go. We are > interested > >> in > >>>> the eternal never > >>>> changing Self. Someone told Bhagawan that he > >>>> sometimes saw Lord Krshna. > >>>> Bhagawan asked him what the use of a God is, > that > >>>> keeps disappearing. > >>>> In Mahayoga we are rejecting everything other > >> than > >>>> Self, as only the > >>>> Self is permanent and every other phenomenon > >> comes > >>>> and goes, is > >>>> fleeting. For your sadhana that means, you have > >> to > >>>> hold on to the never > >>>> changing witness of these visions, as Gabriele > >> also > >>>> pointed out. Seek > >>>> the one who is having the visions? Hold on to > the > >>>> feeling of pure being > >>>> consciousness and let the visions rise and > fall. > >> The > >>>> witness will be > >>>> the same, you'll find. > >>>> > >>>> Visions are there to keep us going in our > >> sadhana. > >>>> No more and no less. > >>>> I have had many visions and they make nice > >> memories. > >>>> But they are of no > >>>> value in themselves. > >>>> > >>>> Om Arunachala Shiva > >>>> > >>>> Chris > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Nov 11, 2004, at 23:51, gabriele ebert > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Dear Namasivayam, > >>>>> > >>>>> There will be no answer to your question ... > or > >>>> many answers can be > >>>>> found ... > >>>>> Some may have visions ... other don't have ... > >> yet > >>>> the meditator is > >>>>> always the same. > >>>>> It may not be so important if there are > visions > >> or > >>>> not ... > >>>>> And if any surely one should not spend the > time > >>>> in counting them. > >>>>> This would be absurd. > >>>>> This is like you are going through a street > and > >>>> count what you are > >>>>> seeing. > >>>>> It may be a playful entertainment at times > >> though. > >>>>> > >>>>> Bhagavan advices to cling to the meditator, > not > >> to > >>>> the visions. > >>>>> The one who meditates is always there. This is > >>>> good, isn't it? So one > >>>>> needs neither care > >>>>> if visions nor if no visions. > >>>>> > >>>>> Some say, visions may happen when meditation > >>>> reaches a certain debth > >>>>> or is done intently. But here > >>>>> someone else - more experienced - should then > >>>> answer. > >>>>> I myself had one vision-like experience once > >> only > >>>> ... which had to do > >>>>> with Bhagavan ... > >>>>> and it never repeated I like to remember as > >> it > >>>> told something what > >>>>> is still felt > >>>>> much important to be understood in Bhagavan's > >>>> teaching. So the > >>>>> importance I feel is not in the > >>>>> happening of the vision - but what it was > >>>> pointing to. > >>>>> > >>>>> In Zen I have learned from teachers, that they > >>>> say, if a vision comes > >>>>> - and even if it is that of Buddha - > >>>>> one should kill this vision-Buddha. > >>>>> This may point to the same as in Bhagavan's > atma > >>>> vichara, where one > >>>>> asks deep within: > >>>>> to whom does it - the vision - appear - and > >> hold > >>>> to that and not to > >>>>> the vision. > >>>>> > >>>>> Kind regards > === message truncated === Check out the new Front Page. www. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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