Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 What is more amusing is how in the dismissive, it hides the deepest fear that a life-long investment of seeking has amounted to nothing. A conversation with the orginal neo-advaitist, Bhagwan Ramana,..... Q: You are Bhagavan. So you should know when I shall get jnana. Tell me when I shall be a jnani? A: If I am Bhagavan there is no one besides the Self- therefore no jnani or ajnani. If otherwise, I am as good as you are and know as much as yourself. Either way I cannot answer your question. Coming here some people do not ask about themselves. They ask:"Does the jivan muktas see the world? Is he affected by Karma? What is liberation after being disembodied or while alive in the body? Should the body of the sage resolve itself in light or disappear from view in any other manner? Can he be liberated though the body is left behind as a corpse?" Their questions are endless. Why worry oneself in so many ways? Does liberation consist in knowing these things? Therefore I say to them, leave liberation alone. Is there a bondage? ------- Now that same conversation, if posted without the attribution to Ramana, would have been dismissed as Neo-advaitism.<LOL> Love Avril Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 yes but the fact of the matter is that Ramana did say them ,and if he hadn't virtually no 'neo-advaitist' could have said them, because most neo-advaitist teaching stems from Him albeit in a distorted or plagiarised manner. I think that anyone with a reasonable intellect can master the advaita theory and then expound upon it . However, this is a completely different from a genuinely self-realized person radiating the TRUTH as a natural fact of their life.Unless someone claiming self-realization radiated naturally some of the classical features of that state such as unconditional love,or palpable peace I personally would doubt the degree of realization. Did Bhagavan tell us that he was a jnani ? No each of us has come to that conclusion quite naturally just by association with Him in a variety of ways. Bhagavan was unique in many many ways. For a start did he ever charge for passing on His divine knowledge? regards michael dillon >Avril Sanya <avrilsanya >RamanaMaharshi >RamanaMaharshi >[RamanaMaharshi] Leave liberation alone,..... Is there a bondage? >Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:51:33 +0100 (BST) > >The term Neo-Advaitist used to dismiss,is amusing. > >What is more amusing is how in the dismissive, it hides the deepest fear >that a life-long investment of seeking has amounted to nothing. > >A conversation with the orginal neo-advaitist, Bhagwan Ramana,..... > > > >Q: You are Bhagavan. So you should know when I shall get jnana. Tell me >when I shall be a jnani? > >A: If I am Bhagavan there is no one besides the Self- therefore no jnani or >ajnani. > >If otherwise, I am as good as you are and know as much as yourself. Either >way I cannot answer your question. > >Coming here some people do not ask about themselves. > >They ask:"Does the jivan muktas see the world? Is he affected by Karma? >What is liberation after being disembodied or while alive in the body? >Should the >body of the sage resolve itself in light or disappear from view in any >other manner? Can he be liberated though the body is left behind as a >corpse?" > >Their questions are endless. >Why worry oneself in so many ways? >Does liberation consist in knowing these things? > >Therefore I say to them, leave liberation alone. > >Is there a bondage? > > > >------- > > >Now that same conversation, if posted without the attribution to Ramana, >would have been dismissed as Neo-advaitism.<LOL> > > >Love > > >Avril > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! >Download Messenger Now _______________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 When we are in "agnana" (ignorance), how we can think of "Gnana"(wisdom). When we reaches or attains Ganana ...all the questions arises out of Agnana will vanish and we become Maharishi...only deep silence exist... All these is due to dualism and monalism...when monolism is there there is no Dualism...and viceversa. SUBAM. Avril Sanya <avrilsanya > wrote: The term Neo-Advaitist used to dismiss,is amusing. What is more amusing is how in the dismissive, it hides the deepest fear that a life-long investment of seeking has amounted to nothing. A conversation with the orginal neo-advaitist, Bhagwan Ramana,..... Q: You are Bhagavan. So you should know when I shall get jnana. Tell me when I shall be a jnani? A: If I am Bhagavan there is no one besides the Self- therefore no jnani or ajnani. If otherwise, I am as good as you are and know as much as yourself. Either way I cannot answer your question. Coming here some people do not ask about themselves. They ask:"Does the jivan muktas see the world? Is he affected by Karma? What is liberation after being disembodied or while alive in the body? Should the body of the sage resolve itself in light or disappear from view in any other manner? Can he be liberated though the body is left behind as a corpse?" Their questions are endless. Why worry oneself in so many ways? Does liberation consist in knowing these things? Therefore I say to them, leave liberation alone. Is there a bondage? ------- Now that same conversation, if posted without the attribution to Ramana, would have been dismissed as Neo-advaitism.<LOL> Love Avril Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi List owner: RamanaMaharshi-ownerShortcut URL to this page: http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 yes but the fact of the matter is that Ramana did say them , Yes. As did many "sages" before him. Which does not in any way reduce the beauty, the clarity of the expressing of the same, through Ramana. and if he hadn't virtually no 'neo-advaitist' could have said them, because most neo-advaitist teaching stems from Him albeit in a distorted or plagiarised manner. Which, if there is only the Self, the distortion, the plagiarism, would be nothing but the distortion and plagiarism ensued by the Self. And thus really there can never be a distortion, a plagiarism, if there is only the Self. Actually, the neo-advaitists is not the issue. I was trying to go into the hiding behind the dismissiveness in the usaage of the label.:-) I think that anyone with a reasonable intellect can master the advaita theory and then expound upon it . However, this is a completely different from a genuinely self-realized person radiating the TRUTH as a natural fact of their life. That is true. Knowingness is beingness. Unless someone claiming self-realization radiated naturally some of the classical features of that state such as unconditional love,or palpable peace I personally would doubt the degree of realization. Is there a degree of realization? Either there is a beingness which reflects realization or there is not. And in either case, it is only the Self radiating as so. Secondly, the conclusion, that a certain beingness reflects the specifications that you have drawn, aka unconditional love and palpable peace, the conclusions exist in whose cognition? The benedction of unconditional love is received only in unconditional love. Palpable peace "out there" can only be a reflection of palable peace "in-here". Did Bhagavan tell us that he was a jnani ? No each of us has come to that conclusion quite naturally just by association with Him in a variety of ways. Yes. The conclusion of an object being a jnani or ajnani, is only of relevance to a ajnani, the conclusion being a belief of conformity with some held standards, with some specifications. For the "jnani", there is neither the jnani nor the ajnani. Bhagavan was unique in many many ways. For a start did he ever charge for passing on His divine knowledge? :-) There being no "other" to pass on anything, let alone knowledge, divine or otherwise, the demand of a quid-pro-quo (financial or otherwise) indeed reflects the lack of advent of realization. However,the existence of such business dealings,(and I fully agree there are a huge number of such dealings) can only be, once again the expressing of the same Self. That's the essential point. The same Self which expressed itself as the object known as Ramana. Which expresses itself as the object known as a Michael, as an Avril. Just some observations. Love Avril Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaaya ....yes, Michael. It's always best to learn from someone who has completed the journey. anbudan John Siva—Siva RamanaMaharshi, "michael dillon" <michael_dillon_108@m...> wrote: > > yes but the fact of the matter is that Ramana did say them ,and if he > hadn't virtually no 'neo-advaitist' could have said them, because most > neo-advaitist teaching stems from Him albeit in a distorted or plagiarised > manner. > I think that anyone with a reasonable intellect can master the advaita > theory and then expound upon it . However, this is a completely different > from a genuinely self-realized person radiating the TRUTH as a natural fact > of their life.Unless someone claiming self-realization radiated naturally > some of the classical features of that state such as unconditional love,or > palpable peace I personally would doubt the degree of realization. > Did Bhagavan tell us that he was a jnani ? No each of us has come to > that conclusion quite naturally just by association with Him in a variety of > ways. > Bhagavan was unique in many many ways. For a start did he ever > charge for passing on His divine knowledge? > regards michael dillon > > > > >Avril Sanya <avrilsanya> > >RamanaMaharshi > >RamanaMaharshi > >[RamanaMaharshi] Leave liberation alone,..... Is there a bondage? > >Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:51:33 +0100 (BST) > > > >The term Neo-Advaitist used to dismiss,is amusing. > > > >What is more amusing is how in the dismissive, it hides the deepest fear > >that a life-long investment of seeking has amounted to nothing. > > > >A conversation with the orginal neo-advaitist, Bhagwan Ramana,..... > > > > > > > >Q: You are Bhagavan. So you should know when I shall get jnana. Tell me > >when I shall be a jnani? > > > >A: If I am Bhagavan there is no one besides the Self- therefore no jnani or > >ajnani. > > > >If otherwise, I am as good as you are and know as much as yourself. Either > >way I cannot answer your question. > > > >Coming here some people do not ask about themselves. > > > >They ask:"Does the jivan muktas see the world? Is he affected by Karma? > >What is liberation after being disembodied or while alive in the body? > >Should the > >body of the sage resolve itself in light or disappear from view in any > >other manner? Can he be liberated though the body is left behind as a > >corpse?" > > > >Their questions are endless. > >Why worry oneself in so many ways? > >Does liberation consist in knowing these things? > > > >Therefore I say to them, leave liberation alone. > > > >Is there a bondage? > > > > > > > >------- > > > > > >Now that same conversation, if posted without the attribution to Ramana, > >would have been dismissed as Neo-advaitism.<LOL> > > > > > >Love > > > > > >Avril > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! > >Download Messenger Now > > _______________ > Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 --- Avril Sanya <avrilsanya wrote: > The term Neo-Advaitist used to dismiss,is amusing. > What is more amusing is how in the dismissive, > it hides the deepest fear that a life-long > investment of seeking has amounted to nothing. That can be true; but not necessarily. There are those who have crossed-over thanks to sadhana. snip > > Therefore I say to them, leave liberation alone. > > Is there a bondage? > > > > ------- > > > Now that same conversation, if posted without the > attribution to Ramana, would have been dismissed as > Neo-advaitism.<LOL> > > > Love > > > Avril > > Not necessarily because Ramana did prescribe spiritual methods, self-inquiry being the chief among them. The so-called neo-advaitists simply spout philosophy. The philosophy may be true in a hypothetical way; but philosophy itself will never actually satisfy. Hence the inadequacy of philosophy alone. Love, michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 > Now that same conversation, if posted without > the attribution to Ramana, would have been > dismissed as Neo-advaitism.<LOL> I don't think so, because "neo-advaitism" usually means the doctrine that practice is pointless. That seems to be how most people use the term, so far as I can tell. There's nothing in this passage that says anything one way or the other about practice. In fact, Ramana Maharshi was a strong advocate of sadhana. Maybe you mean something else by "neo-advaitism," but since you don't define the term, there's no way to know. - Avril Sanya RamanaMaharshi Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:51 AM [RamanaMaharshi] Leave liberation alone,..... Is there a bondage? The term Neo-Advaitist used to dismiss,is amusing. What is more amusing is how in the dismissive, it hides the deepest fear that a life-long investment of seeking has amounted to nothing. A conversation with the orginal neo-advaitist, Bhagwan Ramana,..... Q: You are Bhagavan. So you should know when I shall get jnana. Tell me when I shall be a jnani? A: If I am Bhagavan there is no one besides the Self- therefore no jnani or ajnani. If otherwise, I am as good as you are and know as much as yourself. Either way I cannot answer your question. Coming here some people do not ask about themselves. They ask:"Does the jivan muktas see the world? Is he affected by Karma? What is liberation after being disembodied or while alive in the body? Should the body of the sage resolve itself in light or disappear from view in any other manner? Can he be liberated though the body is left behind as a corpse?" Their questions are endless. Why worry oneself in so many ways? Does liberation consist in knowing these things? Therefore I say to them, leave liberation alone. Is there a bondage? ------- Now that same conversation, if posted without the attribution to Ramana, would have been dismissed as Neo-advaitism.<LOL> Love Avril Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi List owner: RamanaMaharshi-ownerShortcut URL to this page: http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 > Now that same conversation, if posted without > the attribution to Ramana, would have been > dismissed as Neo-advaitism.<LOL> I don't think so, because "neo-advaitism" usually means the doctrine that practice is pointless. That seems to be how most people use the term, so far as I can tell. As I shared earlier, who is posing as a "neo-advaitist", who claims such, or what is being proclaimed by such a person(s) was not the issue. Exploring the reaction, was interesting. For me, the presence of practice is pointless, to the extent that something having a point, indicates the hope, that the "something" is to lead to something else. The absence of practice, is equally pointless, if the hope persists that now having given up practice, surely Moksha is around the corner. A sense of hope can only arise if the bondage is assumed to be real, real enough to be liberated from. And thus for me,the quoted dialogue, is the very pointlessness of the moment, any moment, beyond itself. The pointlessness of the moment, irrespective of whatever is the content of the moment. There's nothing in this passage that says anything one way or the other about practice. In fact, Ramana Maharshi was a strong advocate of sadhana. :-) Maybe you mean something else by "neo-advaitism," but since you don't define the term, there's no way to know. :-) I have no clue. Just came across the term on this List and few others. Love Avril Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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