RAMANA GITA STUDY GROUP .CHAPTER 12.V.11,12,&13 On Sakti

[Guest guest]

CHAPTER 12

 

ON SAKTI [the main topic in this long chapter]

 

Professor K.Swaminathan and Sri Visvanatha Swami Translation

 

On the nineteenth day, the high-minded Bharadwaja Kapali, great among the

learned,questioned Guru

Ramana.

 

Bhagavan:

 

11.The movement of Sakti which is based on the immovable Reality and which is

the cause of the

world, the learned term indefinable Maya.

 

12.The movement appears as if Real to the Subject . In Reality there is no

movement in Being, Oh

best of men .

 

13.The seeming difference between Iswara and Sakti arises from dualistic vision.

 

If the vision is withdrawn into the Source, the two become One.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

__________

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[Guest guest]

RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs

<alanadamsjacobs> wrote:

CHAPTER 12

 

ON SAKTI [the main topic in this long chapter]

 

Professor K.Swaminathan and Sri Visvanatha Swami Translation

 

On the nineteenth day, the high-minded Bharadwaja Kapali, great

among the learned,questioned Guru

Ramana.

 

Bhagavan:

 

11.The movement of Sakti which is based on the immovable Reality and

which is the cause of the

world, the learned term indefinable Maya.

 

12.The movement appears as if Real to the Subject . In Reality there

is no movement in Being, Oh

best of men .

 

13.The seeming difference between Iswara and Sakti arises from

dualistic vision.

 

If the vision is withdrawn into the Source, the two become One.

 

======================================================

Ramana Gita [Translation and Commentary by AR Natarajan]

Chapter 12 `On Shakti'

 

V11

The movement on the immovable which is the cause of this world is

termed by the learned as the indescribable illusion.

 

Commentary

The much bandied word `Maya' or `illusion' is used in this verse.

Maya is indefinable because the movement seen apart from the

reality, the substratum, is illusory. The origin of this movement

said to be without a beginning, cannot be understood when one is in

the state of ignorance. In the state of knowledge, the immovable and

the superimposition will be seen integrally. For this, the knot of

ignorance has to be cut by vigilant self-enquiry centred on the true

import of individuality.

Maya's veil is in reality only the veil of thought. When the mind is

impure and externalised it is unaware of its link with its conscious

source, the Self. It is under the illusion that its power is

independent. When one enquires into the nature of the mind, and

searches within for the source, employing the twin weapons in the

Ramana-armoury, `Who am I'? and `whence am I'?, then gradually the

veil would be torn and the truth would be revealed.

 

V12

The movement is taken to be real by the subject. Actually there is

no movement of the Self.

 

Commentary

This is the illusion. The idea of movement is superimposed on the

unmoving. As explained by Ramana earlier in this chapter the first

mistake is to regard the subject as separate from the Self. Then the

further mistake, of considering the movements of this separate

subject as the movements of the Self itself, would follow.

 

V13

Iswara and His power are seen as separate because of dualistic

vision. If the mind is merged into its source the two become one.

 

Commentary

Dualistic vision arises when ego rises on waking or in dream. Then,

forgetting the source the individual looks at everything divisively.

If the ego is merged in the source by conscious effort then oneness

of perception is restored and wholeness of existence is felt.

 

====

anu

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear ALL:

 

is there anyone in this group, whose self-vichara has taken them as

far as the individual 'I' thought leading them to the source? If yes,

how does it feel and how to distinguish it from an ignorant patch of

sleep or trance (I am not sure if this is what is meant by laya)...?

 

I am asking this question with a hope / an expectation that someone

will quote from their personal experience and not from what they may

have heard/read.

 

sincerely, Murthy

[Guest guest]

--- manof678 <manof678 wrote:

> Dear ALL:

>

> is there anyone in this group, whose self-vichara

> has taken them as

> far as the individual 'I' thought leading them to

> the source? If yes,

> how does it feel and how to distinguish it from an

> ignorant patch of

> sleep or trance (I am not sure if this is what is

> meant by laya)...?

>

> I am asking this question with a hope / an

> expectation that someone

> will quote from their personal experience and not

> from what they may

> have heard/read.

>

> sincerely, Murthy

>

>

 

Dear Murthy and all,

 

The “source” is NOT a blank emptiness like we

experience in deep sleep. The “source” cannot be

described; but I will write what I can. The “source’

is the source of everything including the source of

the “I thought”. The source is an indescribable

POWER, a BEING that is instantly realized to be the

source as well as the manifestation of the entire

Universal Existence. It underlies and supports all

that exists; but at the same time it is the EXISTENCE

as well. It is conscious of itself in varying

degrees.

 

The conscious experience of the pure “source” differs

from the popular notion of pure consciousness in the

following way. The “source” is so powerful that to

remain completely immersed in it for very long means

certain death. One taste of the “source” leaves a

person changed forever even if they are born lifetime

after lifetime. But to remain immersed in it for long

will probably be the end of the persons’ physical

existence. Ramana Maharshi was an exception to this

in that he remained totally immersed in the “source”

for weeks on end. This occurred while he was in the

Patala Lingam underground vault at the temple in Tiru.

Seshadri Swamigal fed him and gave him water

otherwise he like all others would die. The bugs ate

on his legs. That is how intense it is. While one is

immersed in IT, one cannot and will not perform any

actions - won't eat, won't drink, won't knock the bugs

out of the way. Really, one is helplessly lost in the

indescribable Bliss of the SELF.

 

After emerging there may or may not be repetitions of

the actual immersion in the ‘source”. It doesn’t

matter. One knows ONE’S eternal, undying, blissful

nature. One is free from the mental torment, free

from the effects of thought and desire. One is free.

 

There are some persons who have been able to control

the mind, and control the thoughts without

experiencing the “source”. They may abide in a

“thought free” state. That is “laya”. These persons

possess “thought control”; but their limited

conception of themselves as a human being hasn’t

ceased. They may control the mind; but they don’t

know who they are. This condition is known as “laya”.

 

Warmest regards,

 

michael

[Guest guest]

Dear ALL:is there anyone in this group, whose self-vichara has taken them as far

as the individual 'I' thought leading them to the source? If yes, how does it

feel and how to distinguish it from an ignorant patch of sleep or trance (I am

not sure if this is what is meant by laya)...?

There is an utter absence of wondering whether what is in the moment, is it

sleep, trance, or waking.

Love

Avril Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now

[Guest guest]

dear avril-as i have tried to intimate before all this is more simple

than it might initially seem.What could be more simple than your Real

nature. You will always be "i" , but in the limited vision this "i" just

means you in a body moving through a world seperate from you . By asking"who

am i?" this false experience falls away so that your real I will be

experienced as all-inclusive. You will no longer be in the world-the world

will be in you;indeed as it always was.

humbly yours michael dillon

 

 

>Avril Sanya <avrilsanya

>RamanaMaharshi

>RamanaMaharshi

>Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Re: RAMANA GITA STUDY GROUP .CHAPTER

>12.V.11,12,&13 On Sakti

>Sat, 15 May 2004 11:56:14 +0100 (BST)

>

>

>

>manof678 <manof678 wrote:

>Dear ALL:

>

>is there anyone in this group, whose self-vichara has taken them as

>far as the individual 'I' thought leading them to the source? If yes,

>how does it feel and how to distinguish it from an ignorant patch of

>sleep or trance (I am not sure if this is what is meant by laya)...?

>

>There is an utter absence of wondering whether what is in the moment, is it

>sleep, trance, or waking.

>

>Love

>

>Avril

>

>

>

>

> Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today!

>Download Messenger Now

 

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[Guest guest]

:-)

 

You are replying to a query, which did not arise through Avril.

 

The response that arose through Avril, to that query as "how does it feel",.......was

 

There is an utter absence of wondering,......... whether what is in the moment,

is it sleep, or trance, or waking.

Love

 

Avril

 

michael dillon <michael_dillon_108 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

dear avril-as i have tried to intimate before all this is more simple than it

might initially seem.What could be more simple than your Real nature. You will

always be "i" , but in the limited vision this "i" just means you in a body

moving through a world seperate from you . By asking"who am i?" this false

experience falls away so that your real I will be experienced as all-inclusive.

You will no longer be in the world-the world will be in you;indeed as it always

was. humbly yours michael

dillon>Avril Sanya

<avrilsanya >>RamanaMaharshi>To:

RamanaMaharshi>Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Re: RAMANA GITA

STUDY GROUP .CHAPTER >12.V.11,12,&13 On Sakti>Sat, 15 May 2004 11:56:14

+0100 (BST)>>>>manof678 <manof678 > wrote:>Dear ALL:>>is there anyone

in this group, whose self-vichara has taken them as>far as the individual 'I'

thought leading them to the source? If yes,>how does it feel and how to

distinguish it from an ignorant patch of>sleep or trance (I am not sure if this

is what is meant by laya)...?>>There is an utter absence of wondering whether

what is in the moment, is it >sleep, trance, or waking.>>Love>>Avril

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