Raama's date

[Guest guest]

SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA.

Respected Sri Vasudevan swami,

I don't have the mail ID of Prof Varthak. I just happened to chance

upon his article in the Net and was drawn in to wonder about the

dates and yuga calculations.

But of the different research articles that I have come across on the

date of Raama, his seemed to me more acceptable. This also tallied

with a reserach book on the date of Raama and Krishna published many

years ago by Shakthi Foundation of Pollachi N.Mahalingam. The seminar

which I attended in my college years on "Astronomy as the basis of

History" in which scholars like Prof Srinivasa Raghavan (sanskrit

pandit) and Prof Iravadham, a forerunner in deciphering Indus seals

presented their papers, also concluded on a note that Raama's period

must have occured some 9000 to 10,000 years ago. This was based on

the astro-data found in the Valmiki Ramayana. This is where I stand

as I don't posses any scholarly prowess to substantiate or challenge

these versions.

But our curiosity does take us to places and I intend write another

mail also as a continuation of the previous 6 mails on Raama's date!

Coming to the points raised in your mail, Prof Varthak has been right

in having taken the age of 17 as the time when the coronation was

fixed. The sloka he has quoted in support of this runs like this.

"dasha sapta ca varSaaNi tava jaatasya raaghava |asitaani

prakaankSantyaa mayaa duhkha parikSayam || 2-20-45

45. raaghava =Oh, Rama! aasitaani =sat down mayaa =by me dasha

saptacha =for seventeen varshhaa Ni =years tava jaatasya =after your

second birth of your thread ceremony praakaaNkshhantyaa =with hope of

duHkha parikshhantyaam =disappearance of troubles

“Oh,Rama! I have been waiting for seventeen years after your second

birth of thread ceremony, with the hope that my troubles will

disappear at one time or the other.”

(unquote)

Please note the word used by Kausalya. "tava jaatasya" has been

translated as the thread ceremony here. I request scholars to

explain the usage of this term to mean the thread ceremony. If it is

taken as jaata karma-naama karma done soon after birth, Raama's age

can be literally taken as 17 as per this sloka.

 

Again if we look into the Valmiki Ramayana for the time of thread

ceremony for Raama, we come across this verse.

"braahmaNaan bhojayaamaasa pauraan jaanapadaan api |udadad

braahmaNaanaam cha ratnaugham amalam bahu || 1-18-23teSaam janma

kriya aadIni sarva karmaaNi akaarayat |

23, 24a. brahmaNaan pauraan jaanapadaan api= Brahmans, urbanites,

villagers, also; bhojayaamaasa= are fed well by king;

brahaahmaNaanaam bahu ratna ogham udadat= to Brahmans, many, valuable

gems, he gave - gifted; a + mitam= un, limited; teSaam janma kriya

aadiini= them - the princes, birth, rites, ceremonies sequel to it;

sarva karmaaNi akaarayat= all, rituals, performed.

The king feasted Brahmans, urbanites and villagers and he gifted many

valuable gems to Brahmans in an unlimited way, and all the rituals of

birth and ceremonies sequel to it like naming ceremony,

first-food-feeding ceremony, first-hair-removal ceremony, and sacred

thread ceremony are performed in respect of the princes. [1-18-23,

24a]

(unquote)

The years in which these have been done is not mentioned, but sounds

that the thread ceremony was pretty early considering the sequence of

ceremonies mentioned in this verse.

Regarding the years that Sita mentions in Sundhara khandam, I somehow

picturised as though she was 18 and Raama was 25 at the time of

exile. I am unable to bring back to memory how I arrived at this. But

I have read somewhere or calculated on the basis of some inputs. I

hope to get them soon and share with others.

But regarding the astro-data, it is really a tricky issue. Valmiki

laeves some scope for reserach even about the palnetary positions at

the time of Raama's birth.

He merely says "panchasu graheSu swa uccha samstheshu= of five,

planets, in their own, highest, positing; ". The only direct clue he

gives is about Jupiter's position in "karkaTe lagne". It has been a

matter of debate by many schoalrs as to what these five planets are.

Kalidasa also has taken up the same description in Raghu vamsa but

with some extrapolations. But this issue has been a settled one today

with everyone agreeing with what those 5 planets are.

Thus we find that we have to proceed with insufficient data at crucial

places and manage to arrive at an acceptable version. In my opinion,

irrespective of whether Rama was exiled in his 17th year or 25th

year, it would not make much difference to the era he belonged, which

is about 9000 years ago, according to Prof Varthak. But planetary

positions do lend a clue about the probable time of events.

One event that seemed to have escaped Prof Varthak's attention is the

date of Raama's marriage. There also Valmiki gives a clue that is a

little perplexing."uttare divase brahman phalguniibhyaam maniiSiNaH

|vaivaahikam prasha.msanti bhago yatra prajaapatiH || 1-72-13

13. brahman= oh, Brahman; phalguniibhyaam= in the day where both

Phalguni stars are available; yatra= on which day; prajaapatiH bhagaH

[devataa]= a deity for progeny, namely Bhaga [is the presiding deity];

uttare divase= later, day [later part of the day, or, when the star

post-Phalguni is ruling]; vaivaahikam= for wedding [ceremonies on

such a day]; maniiSiNaH= savants; prashamsanti= acclaim.

"Oh, Brahman, the savants acclaim that part of the day as the best for

wedding ceremonies when both of the pre-Phalguni and post-Phalguni

stars are available, and on such a time where post-Phalguni is

ruling, for which Bhaga is the presiding deity for progeny..." So

said Janaka to the marriage party. [1-72-13]

There is a lot of commentary from the viewpoint of astrology regarding

these stars and days of this marriage. Some have said that uttare

divase 'on best day...' phalguni= puurva phalguni 'pre-Phalguni... on

the best day under pre-Phalguni star...' which usually does not

happen, but it is also said to be correct by Maheshvara Tiirtha, as

the Moon will be in the 12th house at that time, so the marriage is

agreeable...' However the stars for best results of marriages

(unquote)

Wishing to hear more interesting notes on this from others,

Jayasree ________________

[Guest guest]

anegha kodi namaskaram to everyone!

 

Modern western history overlooks certain geological facts.

 

The ice age that envelopes the earth occurs every 9-12 years.

All available record is for the current epoch only.

 

We can say we are 7000 years into this cycle (we know egyptian

history goes back to 5000 years...)

 

What existed in earlier epochs no one knows. Thus it is possible

Sri Rama's period is 9000 years ago.

 

It need not be in the last 5000 years.

 

adiyen

 

anandavalli dasan

 

Oppiliappan, saranathan

<jayasree_saranathan@s...> wrote:

> SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA.

>

> Respected Sri Vasudevan swami,

>

> I don't have the mail ID of Prof Varthak. I just happened to

chance upon his article in the Net and was drawn in to wonder about

the dates and yuga calculations.

>

> But of the different research articles that I have come across on

the date of Raama, his seemed to me more acceptable. This also

tallied with a reserach book on the date of Raama and Krishna

published many years ago by Shakthi Foundation of Pollachi

N.Mahalingam. The seminar which I attended in my college years

on "Astronomy as the basis of History" in which scholars like Prof

Srinivasa Raghavan (sanskrit pandit) and Prof Iravadham, a

forerunner in deciphering Indus seals presented their papers, also

concluded on a note that Raama's period must have occured some 9000

to 10,000 years ago. This was based on the astro-data found in the

Valmiki Ramayana. This is where I stand as I don't posses any

scholarly prowess to substantiate or challenge these versions.

>

> But our curiosity does take us to places and I intend write

another mail also as a continuation of the previous 6 mails on

Raama's date!

>

> Coming to the points raised in your mail, Prof Varthak has been

right in having taken the age of 17 as the time when the coronation

was fixed. The sloka he has quoted in support of this runs like this.

>

> "dasha sapta ca varSaaNi tava jaatasya raaghava |

> asitaani prakaankSantyaa mayaa duhkha parikSayam || 2-20-45

>

> 45. raaghava =Oh, Rama! aasitaani =sat down mayaa =by me dasha

saptacha =for seventeen varshhaa Ni =years tava jaatasya =after your

second birth of your thread ceremony praakaaNkshhantyaa =with hope

of duHkha parikshhantyaam =disappearance of troubles

>

> "Oh,Rama! I have been waiting for seventeen years after your

second birth of thread ceremony, with the hope that my troubles will

disappear at one time or the other."

>

> (unquote)

>

> Please note the word used by Kausalya. "tava jaatasya" has been

translated as the thread ceremony here. I request scholars to

explain the usage of this term to mean the thread ceremony. If it is

taken as jaata karma-naama karma done soon after birth, Raama's age

can be literally taken as 17 as per this sloka.

>

> Again if we look into the Valmiki Ramayana for the time of thread

ceremony for Raama, we come across this verse.

>

>

> "braahmaNaan bhojayaamaasa pauraan jaanapadaan api |

> udadad braahmaNaanaam cha ratnaugham amalam bahu || 1-18-23

> teSaam janma kriya aadIni sarva karmaaNi akaarayat |

>

> 23, 24a. brahmaNaan pauraan jaanapadaan api= Brahmans, urbanites,

villagers, also; bhojayaamaasa= are fed well by king;

brahaahmaNaanaam bahu ratna ogham udadat= to Brahmans, many,

valuable gems, he gave - gifted; a + mitam= un, limited; teSaam

janma kriya aadiini= them - the princes, birth, rites, ceremonies

sequel to it; sarva karmaaNi akaarayat= all, rituals, performed.

>

> The king feasted Brahmans, urbanites and villagers and he gifted

many valuable gems to Brahmans in an unlimited way, and all the

rituals of birth and ceremonies sequel to it like naming ceremony,

first-food-feeding ceremony, first-hair-removal ceremony, and sacred

thread ceremony are performed in respect of the princes. [1-18-23,

24a]

>

> (unquote)

>

> The years in which these have been done is not mentioned, but

sounds that the thread ceremony was pretty early considering the

sequence of ceremonies mentioned in this verse.

>

> Regarding the years that Sita mentions in Sundhara khandam, I

somehow picturised as though she was 18 and Raama was 25 at the time

of exile. I am unable to bring back to memory how I arrived at this.

But I have read somewhere or calculated on the basis of some

inputs. I hope to get them soon and share with others.

>

> But regarding the astro-data, it is really a tricky issue. Valmiki

laeves some scope for reserach even about the palnetary positions at

the time of Raama's birth.

>

> He merely says "panchasu graheSu swa uccha samstheshu= of five,

planets, in their own, highest, positing; ". The only direct clue he

gives is about Jupiter's position in "karkaTe lagne". It has been a

matter of debate by many schoalrs as to what these five planets are.

Kalidasa also has taken up the same description in Raghu vamsa but

with some extrapolations. But this issue has been a settled one

today with everyone agreeing with what those 5 planets are.

>

> Thus we find that we have to proceed with insufficient data at

crucial places and manage to arrive at an acceptable version. In my

opinion, irrespective of whether Rama was exiled in his 17th year or

25th year, it would not make much difference to the era he belonged,

which is about 9000 years ago, according to Prof Varthak. But

planetary positions do lend a clue about the probable time of events.

>

> One event that seemed to have escaped Prof Varthak's attention is

the date of Raama's marriage. There also Valmiki gives a clue that

is a little perplexing.

>

> "uttare divase brahman phalguniibhyaam maniiSiNaH |

> vaivaahikam prasha.msanti bhago yatra prajaapatiH || 1-72-13

>

> 13. brahman= oh, Brahman; phalguniibhyaam= in the day where both

Phalguni stars are available; yatra= on which day; prajaapatiH

bhagaH [devataa]= a deity for progeny, namely Bhaga [is the

presiding deity]; uttare divase= later, day [later part of the day,

or, when the star post-Phalguni is ruling]; vaivaahikam= for wedding

[ceremonies on such a day]; maniiSiNaH= savants; prashamsanti=

acclaim.

>

> "Oh, Brahman, the savants acclaim that part of the day as the

best for wedding ceremonies when both of the pre-Phalguni and post-

Phalguni stars are available, and on such a time where post-Phalguni

is ruling, for which Bhaga is the presiding deity for progeny..." So

said Janaka to the marriage party. [1-72-13]

>

> There is a lot of commentary from the viewpoint of astrology

regarding these stars and days of this marriage. Some have said that

uttare divase 'on best day...' phalguni= puurva phalguni 'pre-

Phalguni... on the best day under pre-Phalguni star...' which

usually does not happen, but it is also said to be correct by

Maheshvara Tiirtha, as the Moon will be in the 12th house at that

time, so the marriage is agreeable...' However the stars for best

results of marriages (unquote)

>

> Wishing to hear more interesting notes on this from others,

>

> Jayasree

________________

[Guest guest]

anegha kodi namaskaram to everyone!Modern western history overlooks

certain geological facts.The ice age that envelopes the earth occurs

every 9-12 years.All available record is for the current epoch

only.We can say we are 7000 years into this cycle (we know egyptian

history goes back to 5000 years...)What existed in earlier epochs no

one knows. Thus it is possibleSri Rama's period is 9000 years ago. It

need not be in the last 5000 years. adiyenanandavalli dasan--- In

Oppiliappan, saranathan <jayasree_saranathan@s...>

wrote:> SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA.> > Respected Sri Vasudevan

swami,> > I don't have the mail ID of Prof Varthak. I just happened

to chance upon his article in the Net and was drawn in to wonder

about the dates and yuga

calculations.> > But of the different research articles that I have

come across on the date of Raama, his seemed to me more acceptable.

This also tallied with a reserach book on the date of Raama and

Krishna published many years ago by Shakthi Foundation of Pollachi

N.Mahalingam. The seminar which I attended in my college years on

"Astronomy as the basis of History" in which scholars like Prof

Srinivasa Raghavan (sanskrit pandit) and Prof Iravadham, a forerunner

in deciphering Indus seals presented their papers, also concluded on a

note that Raama's period must have occured some 9000 to 10,000 years

ago. This was based on the astro-data found in the Valmiki Ramayana.

This is where I stand as I don't posses any scholarly prowess to

substantiate or challenge these versions.> > But our curiosity does

take us to places and I intend write another mail also as a

continuation of the previous 6 mails on Raama's

date!> > Coming to the points raised in your mail, Prof Varthak has

been right in having taken the age of 17 as the time when the

coronation was fixed. The sloka he has quoted in support of this runs

like this.> > "dasha sapta ca varSaaNi tava jaatasya raaghava |>

asitaani prakaankSantyaa mayaa duhkha parikSayam || 2-20-45> > 45.

raaghava =Oh, Rama! aasitaani =sat down mayaa =by me dasha saptacha

=for seventeen varshhaa Ni =years tava jaatasya =after your second

birth of your thread ceremony praakaaNkshhantyaa =with hope of duHkha

parikshhantyaam =disappearance of troubles> > "Oh,Rama! I have been

waiting for seventeen years after your second birth of thread

ceremony, with the hope that my troubles will disappear at one time

or the other."> > (unquote)> > Please note the word used by Kausalya.

"tava jaatasya" has been translated as the thread ceremony here. I

request scholars to explain the usage of this term to mean the thread

ceremony. If it is taken as jaata karma-naama karma done soon after

birth, Raama's age can be literally taken as 17 as per this sloka.> >

Again if we look into the Valmiki Ramayana for the time of thread

ceremony for Raama, we come across this verse.> > > "braahmaNaan

bhojayaamaasa pauraan jaanapadaan api |> udadad braahmaNaanaam cha

ratnaugham amalam bahu || 1-18-23> teSaam janma kriya aadIni sarva

karmaaNi akaarayat |> > 23, 24a. brahmaNaan pauraan jaanapadaan api=

Brahmans, urbanites, villagers, also; bhojayaamaasa= are fed well by

king; brahaahmaNaanaam bahu ratna ogham udadat= to Brahmans, many,

valuable gems, he gave - gifted; a + mitam= un, limited; teSaam janma

kriya aadiini= them - the princes, birth, rites, ceremonies sequel to

it; sarva karmaaNi akaarayat= all, rituals, performed.>

> The king feasted Brahmans, urbanites and villagers and he gifted

many valuable gems to Brahmans in an unlimited way, and all the

rituals of birth and ceremonies sequel to it like naming ceremony,

first-food-feeding ceremony, first-hair-removal ceremony, and sacred

thread ceremony are performed in respect of the princes. [1-18-23,

24a]> > (unquote)> > The years in which these have been done is not

mentioned, but sounds that the thread ceremony was pretty early

considering the sequence of ceremonies mentioned in this verse.> >

Regarding the years that Sita mentions in Sundhara khandam, I somehow

picturised as though she was 18 and Raama was 25 at the time of exile.

I am unable to bring back to memory how I arrived at this. But I have

read somewhere or calculated on the basis of some inputs. I hope to

get them soon and share with others.> > But regarding the astro-data,

it

is really a tricky issue. Valmiki laeves some scope for reserach even

about the palnetary positions at the time of Raama's birth.> > He

merely says "panchasu graheSu swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets,

in their own, highest, positing; ". The only direct clue he gives is

about Jupiter's position in "karkaTe lagne". It has been a matter of

debate by many schoalrs as to what these five planets are. Kalidasa

also has taken up the same description in Raghu vamsa but with some

extrapolations. But this issue has been a settled one today with

everyone agreeing with what those 5 planets are.> > Thus we find that

we have to proceed with insufficient data at crucial places and manage

to arrive at an acceptable version. In my opinion, irrespective of

whether Rama was exiled in his 17th year or 25th year, it would not

make much difference to the era he belonged, which is about 9000

years ago, according to Prof

Varthak. But planetary positions do lend a clue about the probable

time of events.> > One event that seemed to have escaped Prof

Varthak's attention is the date of Raama's marriage. There also

Valmiki gives a clue that is a little perplexing.> > "uttare divase

brahman phalguniibhyaam maniiSiNaH |> vaivaahikam prasha.msanti bhago

yatra prajaapatiH || 1-72-13> > 13. brahman= oh, Brahman;

phalguniibhyaam= in the day where both Phalguni stars are available;

yatra= on which day; prajaapatiH bhagaH [devataa]= a deity for

progeny, namely Bhaga [is the presiding deity]; uttare divase= later,

day [later part of the day, or, when the star post-Phalguni is

ruling]; vaivaahikam= for wedding [ceremonies on such a day];

maniiSiNaH= savants; prashamsanti= acclaim.> > "Oh, Brahman, the

savants acclaim that part of the day as the best for wedding

ceremonies when both of the

pre-Phalguni and post-Phalguni stars are available, and on such a time

where post-Phalguni is ruling, for which Bhaga is the presiding deity

for progeny..." So said Janaka to the marriage party. [1-72-13]> >

There is a lot of commentary from the viewpoint of astrology

regarding these stars and days of this marriage. Some have said that

uttare divase 'on best day...' phalguni= puurva phalguni

'pre-Phalguni... on the best day under pre-Phalguni star...' which

usually does not happen, but it is also said to be correct by

Maheshvara Tiirtha, as the Moon will be in the 12th house at that

time, so the marriage is agreeable...' However the stars for best

results of marriages (unquote)> > Wishing to hear more interesting

notes on this from others, > > Jayasree

________________

Discover Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing &; more. Check it out!