Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste Alan, My method is by a total surrender of God, which takes you into the depths of the heart. My other method is by observation of the ego self, which disconnects me from the identification with the body, mind, emotions, etc, and takes you into teh depths of the heart. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 I am interested in sharing descriptions of ways to dive and plunge into the heart .Mine is with breath retention .Any other views ?Alan Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Dear Alan: Can you please share more about exactly how you do the breath retention. I try it from time to time. I also have thoughts that if I were to be tortured, I would hold my breath until my heart bursts. Ram Dass the acid guru from Harvard, tells of his friend that was doing pranayama on drugs and burst his heart and died. I think that with a strong mind one can do it. My swimming teacher also told me that some kids with very strong minds during training to hold the breath overdo it and burst their hearts. Do you thing I would be absorbed in the Self if I held my breath until there was not more 'I'? I invite anyone to reply. If a voice said, you now have a choice by just saying OK, to leave this world and the body for good and return to God absolute, would you do it? That would mean you would never know anything again. No pleasures, no family, not being loved etc? Loving Sri Ramana, Alton RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs> wrote: > I am interested in sharing descriptions of ways to dive and plunge into the heart .Mine is with > breath retention .Any other views ?Alan > > > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Dear Alton, RamanaMaharshi, "Alton Slater" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > Do you thing I would be absorbed in the Self if I held my breath > until there was not more 'I'? I invite anyone to reply. Interesting question....one that has flashed across several times. Holding breath is violence....isn't it? Why should violence lead to God/heart/Self? Hmmm....still the question persists, such is its hold! > If a voice said, you now have a choice by just saying OK, to leave > this world and the body for good and return to God absolute, would > you do it? That would mean you would never know anything again. No > pleasures, no family, not being loved etc? Another imaginative question.......Will a voice ever ask unless one is ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Dear GTTK: > > If a voice said, you now have a choice by just saying OK, to leave > > this world and the body for good and return to God absolute, would > > you do it? That would mean you would never know anything again. No > > pleasures, no family, not being loved etc? > > > Another imaginative question.......Will a voice ever ask unless one > is ready? People hear voices and they think that they are real. So maybe Truman was right saying that he never answers hypothetical questions. About your violence comment; to me even meditation is violence to the Self. If we already are the Self then way do anything else to habituate it? Love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 RamanaMaharshi, "Alton Slater" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > Dear GTTK: > People hear voices and they think that they are real. So maybe Truman > was right saying that he never answers hypothetical questions. Yes, he was right. > About your violence comment; to me even meditation is violence to the > Self. If we already are the Self then way do anything else to > habituate it? Good question. You've hit the nail on the head. A pointer to true answer lies in "understanding". BTW, Meditation doesn't lead to realization of Self. It only helps concentrating the random thoughts to (hopefully) a single thought. And it isn't a violence against the Self (capital S). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Dear Prem .Thanks for your reply .I totally agree that complete unconditional surrender to God , the Source of one's Being , with gratitude for his grace , takes one into the heart . <Namastase Alan <tt> Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya<BR> <BR> Namaste Alan,<BR> <BR> My method is by a total surrender of God, which takes you into the depths of <BR> the heart. My other method is by observation of the ego self, which <BR> disconnects me from the identification with the body, mind, emotions, etc, <BR> and takes you into teh depths of the heart.<BR> <BR> Namo Ramana<BR> <BR> Prem<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> Sponsor</b></font></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> <td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font face=arial size=-2></font><br><a href="http://rd./M=213858.2436161.3858594.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705060\ 955:HM/A=763352/R=0/*http://www.classmates.com/index.tf?s=5085" target=_top><img src=" " alt="" width="300" height="250" border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td> </tr> <tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1 src="http://us.adserver./l?M=213858.2436161.3858594.2225242/D=egroupmai\ l/S=:HM/A=763352/rand=133681356"></td></tr> </table> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <br> <tt> <BR> Post message: RamanaMaharshi <BR> Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- <BR> Un: RamanaMaharshi- <BR> List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner <BR> <BR> Shortcut URL to this page:<BR> <a href="/community/RamanaMaharshi"> Terms of Service</a>.</tt> </br> </body></html> Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.''>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 -- Dear Alton , the clue to this practice is given in the famous verse 2 Chapter 2 of the Ramana Gita where it is written ..... by search for self , or diving deep or with breath under check Thus abide ever in Atman . In the essay on Self Enquiry {Collected Works} there are many references 24-27 . retention should be four measures he says in 27 . A count of four is unlikely to bust a gut or lung .During that count -mind stops , and then with attention one can plunge or dive inwardly into the Heart searching for the source of the I thought i.e. Self Enquiry .With repeateded practice , three times a day is not very taxing , one feels one is going deeper etc.each experience will be different .Yhe swimming metaphor is used .Ramana as a young man loved to swim and raced Ganapati Muni - according to the bio.of the Muni .Regards Alan <tt> <BR> <BR> Dear Alan:<BR> Can you please share more about exactly how you do the breath <BR> retention. I try it from time to time. I also have thoughts that if I <BR> were to be tortured, I would hold my breath until my heart bursts.<BR> <BR> Ram Dass the acid guru from Harvard, tells of his friend that was <BR> doing pranayama on drugs and burst his heart and died.<BR> <BR> I think that with a strong mind one can do it. My swimming teacher <BR> also told me that some kids with very strong minds during training to <BR> hold the breath overdo it and burst their hearts.<BR> <BR> Do you thing I would be absorbed in the Self if I held my breath <BR> until there was not more 'I'? I invite anyone to reply.<BR> <BR> If a voice said, you now have a choice by just saying OK, to leave <BR> this world and the body for good and return to God absolute, would <BR> you do it? That would mean you would never know anything again. No <BR> pleasures, no family, not being loved etc?<BR> <BR> Loving Sri Ramana,<BR> Alton<BR> <BR> RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs> wrote:<BR> > I am interested in sharing descriptions of ways to dive and plunge <BR> into the heart .Mine is with<BR> > breath retention .Any other views ?Alan<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > Everything you'll ever need on one web page<BR> > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts<BR> > <a href="http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.">http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.</a><BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> Sponsor</b></font></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> <td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font face=arial size=-2></font><br><a href="http://rd./M=213858.2436161.3858594.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705060\ 955:HM/A=763352/R=0/*http://www.classmates.com/index.tf?s=5085" target=_top><img src=" " alt="" width="300" height="250" border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td> </tr> <tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1 src="http://us.adserver./l?M=213858.2436161.3858594.2225242/D=egroupmai\ l/S=:HM/A=763352/rand=949047515"></td></tr> </table> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <br> <tt> <BR> Post message: RamanaMaharshi <BR> Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- <BR> Un: RamanaMaharshi- <BR> List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner <BR> <BR> Shortcut URL to this page:<BR> <a href="/community/RamanaMaharshi"> Terms of Service</a>.</tt> </br> </body></html> Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 Dear Alan: Some minds like mine can think even while holding the breath until it cant be held anymore. Sometimes I do pranayama, but so far it does not lesson the amount of thoughts that I have. Just watching my attention works best for less thoughts. I do breath holding while I swim. I do eight strokes holding the breath along with the Ramana Mantra out loud under water. Maybe I will drown in the Self someday. LOL. Loving Sri Ramana, Alton RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs> wrote: > -- > Dear Alton , the clue to this practice is given in the famous verse 2 Chapter 2 of the Ramana > Gita where it is written ..... by search for self , or diving deep > or with breath under check > Thus abide ever in Atman . > In the essay on Self Enquiry {Collected Works} there are many references 24-27 . > retention should be four measures he says in 27 . A count of four is unlikely to bust a gut or > lung .During that count -mind stops , and then with attention one can plunge or dive inwardly into > the Heart searching for the source of the I thought i.e. Self Enquiry .With repeateded practice > , three times a day is not very taxing , one feels one is going deeper etc.each experience will > be different .Yhe swimming metaphor is used .Ramana as a young man loved to swim and raced > Ganapati Muni - according to the bio.of the Muni .Regards Alan > > > <tt> > <BR> > <BR> > Dear Alan:<BR> > Can you please share more about exactly how you do the breath <BR> > retention. I try it from time to time. I also have thoughts that if I <BR> > were to be tortured, I would hold my breath until my heart bursts.<BR> > <BR> > Ram Dass the acid guru from Harvard, tells of his friend that was <BR> > doing pranayama on drugs and burst his heart and died.<BR> > <BR> > I think that with a strong mind one can do it. My swimming teacher <BR> > also told me that some kids with very strong minds during training to <BR> > hold the breath overdo it and burst their hearts.<BR> > <BR> > Do you thing I would be absorbed in the Self if I held my breath <BR> > until there was not more 'I'? I invite anyone to reply.<BR> > <BR> > If a voice said, you now have a choice by just saying OK, to leave <BR> > this world and the body for good and return to God absolute, would <BR> > you do it? That would mean you would never know anything again. No <BR> > pleasures, no family, not being loved etc?<BR> > <BR> > Loving Sri Ramana,<BR> > Alton<BR> > <BR> > RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs alanadamsjacobs wrote:<BR> > > I am interested in sharing descriptions of ways to dive and plunge <BR> > into the heart .Mine is with<BR> > > breath retention .Any other views ?Alan<BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page<BR> > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts<BR> > > <a href="http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.">http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.</a><BR> > <BR> > </tt> > > <br> > > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> > > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> > <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> Sponsor</b></font></td> > </tr> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> > <td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font > face=arial size=-2></font><br><a > href="http://rd./M=213858.2436161.3858594.2225242/D=egroupweb /S=1705060955:HM/A=763352/R=0/* > Terms of Service</a>.</tt> > </br> > > </body></html> > > > > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 Dear Alton, as you say, watching the thoughts works good and is a more gentle way then holding breath. If we violantely try to stop thoughts they will also violently try to come back. Perhaps for some time we can succeed, but how long can one practice breath control? If we only watch - without descrimination - just watch, how they come, how they go, fromwhere they arise - withdrawing our interest and attention in them - they do not hinder atma vichara any more. They will naturally silence down. And this can always be practiced. So this is a most gentle way. In HIM Gabriele > Some minds like mine can think even while holding the breath until it > cant be held anymore. Sometimes I do pranayama, but so far it does > not lesson the amount of thoughts that I have. Just watching my > attention works best for less thoughts. I do breath holding while I > swim. I do eight strokes holding the breath along with the Ramana > Mantra out loud under water. Maybe I will drown in the Self someday. > LOL. > > Loving Sri Ramana, > Alton > > > RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs> wrote: > > -- > > Dear Alton , the clue to this practice is given in the famous verse > 2 Chapter 2 of the Ramana > > Gita where it is written ..... by search for self , or diving deep > > or with breath under check > > Thus abide ever in Atman . > > In the essay on Self Enquiry {Collected Works} there are many > references 24-27 . > > retention should be four measures he says in 27 . A count of four > is unlikely to bust a gut or > > lung .During that count -mind stops , and then with attention one > can plunge or dive inwardly into > > the Heart searching for the source of the I thought i.e. Self > Enquiry .With repeateded practice > > , three times a day is not very taxing , one feels one is going > deeper etc.each experience will > > be different .Yhe swimming metaphor is used .Ramana as a young man > loved to swim and raced > > Ganapati Muni - according to the bio.of the Muni .Regards Alan > > > > > > <tt> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > Dear Alan:<BR> > > Can you please share more about exactly how you do the breath <BR> > > retention. I try it from time to time. I also have thoughts that if > I <BR> > > were to be tortured, I would hold my breath until my heart > bursts.<BR> > > <BR> > > Ram Dass the acid guru from Harvard, tells of his friend that was > <BR> > > doing pranayama on drugs and burst his heart and died.<BR> > > <BR> > > I think that with a strong mind one can do it. My swimming teacher > <BR> > > also told me that some kids with very strong minds during training > to <BR> > > hold the breath overdo it and burst their hearts.<BR> > > <BR> > > Do you thing I would be absorbed in the Self if I held my breath > <BR> > > until there was not more 'I'? I invite anyone to reply.<BR> > > <BR> > > If a voice said, you now have a choice by just saying OK, to leave > <BR> > > this world and the body for good and return to God absolute, would > <BR> > > you do it? That would mean you would never know anything again. No > <BR> > > pleasures, no family, not being loved etc?<BR> > > <BR> > > Loving Sri Ramana,<BR> > > Alton<BR> > > <BR> > > RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs alanadamsjacobs > wrote:<BR> > > > I am interested in sharing descriptions of ways to dive > and plunge <BR> > > into the heart .Mine is with<BR> > > > breath retention .Any other views ?Alan<BR> > > > <BR> > > > <BR> > > > <BR> > > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page<BR> > > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts<BR> > > > <a href="http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.">http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.</a><BR> > > <BR> > > </tt> > > > > <br> > > > > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> > > > > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> > > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> > > <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> > Sponsor</b></font></td> > > </tr> > > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> > > <td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 > cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font > > face=arial size=-2></font><br><a > > > href="http://rd./M=213858.2436161.3858594.2225242/D=egroupweb > /S=1705060955:HM/A=763352/R=0/* > > Terms of Service</a>.</tt> > > </br> > > > > </body></html> > > > > > > > > > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 --- Dear Alton -just goes to prove how different we are in what we experience .I suppose that is why so many different suggestions are given about Atma Vichara to suit the different temperaments .> Ramana said we should start with what we find easiest - it doesn't matter how so lomg as we rest in the Heart .Ramana's Teaching will save us from drowning in the ocean of Samsara .Regards Alan <tt> Dear Alan: <BR> Some minds like mine can think even while holding the breath until it <BR> cant be held anymore. Sometimes I do pranayama, but so far it does <BR> not lesson the amount of thoughts that I have. Just watching my <BR> attention works best for less thoughts. I do breath holding while I <BR> swim. I do eight strokes holding the breath along with the Ramana <BR> Mantra out loud under water. Maybe I will drown in the Self someday. <BR> LOL.<BR> <BR> Loving Sri Ramana,<BR> Alton<BR> <BR> <BR> RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs> wrote:<BR> > --<BR> > Dear Alton , the clue to this practice is given in the famous verse <BR> 2 Chapter 2 of the Ramana<BR> > Gita where it is written ..... by search for self , or diving deep<BR> > &nbs\ p; \ or with breath under check<BR> > &nbs\ p; \ Thus abide ever in Atman .<BR> > In the essay on Self Enquiry {Collected Works} there are many <BR> references 24-27 .<BR> > retention should be four measures he says in 27 . A count of four <BR> is unlikely to bust a gut or<BR> > lung .During that count -mind stops , and then with attention one <BR> can plunge or dive inwardly into<BR> > the Heart searching for the source of the I thought i.e. Self <BR> Enquiry .With repeateded practice <BR> > , three times a day is not very taxing , one feels one is going <BR> deeper etc.each experience will<BR> > be different .Yhe swimming metaphor is used .Ramana as a young man <BR> loved to swim and raced<BR> > Ganapati Muni - according to the bio.of the Muni .Regards Alan <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <tt><BR> > <BR><BR> > <BR><BR> > Dear Alan:<BR><BR> > Can you please share more about exactly how you do the breath <BR><BR> > retention. I try it from time to time. I also have thoughts that if <BR> I <BR><BR> > were to be tortured, I would hold my breath until my heart <BR> bursts.<BR><BR> > <BR><BR> > Ram Dass the acid guru from Harvard, tells of his friend that was <BR> <BR><BR> > doing pranayama on drugs and burst his heart and died.<BR><BR> > <BR><BR> > I think that with a strong mind one can do it. My swimming teacher <BR> <BR><BR> > also told me that some kids with very strong minds during training <BR> to <BR><BR> > hold the breath overdo it and burst their hearts.<BR><BR> > <BR><BR> > Do you thing I would be absorbed in the Self if I held my breath <BR> <BR><BR> > until there was not more 'I'? I invite anyone to reply.<BR><BR> > <BR><BR> > If a voice said, you now have a choice by just saying OK, to leave <BR> <BR><BR> > this world and the body for good and return to God absolute, would <BR> <BR><BR> > you do it? That would mean you would never know anything again. No <BR> <BR><BR> > pleasures, no family, not being loved etc?<BR><BR> > <BR><BR> > Loving Sri Ramana,<BR><BR> > Alton<BR><BR> > <BR><BR> > RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs alanadamsjacobs <BR> wrote:<BR><BR> > > I am interested in sharing descriptions of ways to dive <BR> and plunge <BR><BR> > into the heart .Mine is with<BR><BR> > > breath retention .Any other views ?Alan<BR><BR> > > <BR><BR> > > <BR><BR> > > <BR><BR> > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page<BR><BR> > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts<BR><BR> > > <a href="<a href="http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.">http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.</a>"><a href="http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.">http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.</a></a><BR><BR> > <BR><BR> > </tt><BR> > <BR> > <br><BR> > <BR> > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><BR> > <BR> > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2><BR> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC><BR> > <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> <BR> Sponsor</b></font></td><BR> > </tr><BR> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><BR> > <td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 <BR> cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font<BR> > face=arial size=-2></font><br><a<BR> > <BR> href="<a href="http://rd./M=213858.2436161.3858594.2225242/D=egroupweb"> uot;><BR> > Terms of Service</a>.</tt><BR> > </br><BR> > <BR> > </body></html><BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > Everything you'll ever need on one web page<BR> > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts<BR> > <a href="http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.">http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.</a><BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> Sponsor</b></font></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> <td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font face=arial size=-2></font><br> <script language=JavaScript> var lrec_target="_top"; var lrec_URL = new Array(); lrec_URL[1] = "http://rd./M=233351.2428261.3848243.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:H\ M/A=1261182/R=0/id=flashurl/*https://www.gotomypc.com/tr/yh/grp/300_06F/g22lp?Ta\''>https://www.gotomypc.com/tr/yh/grp/300_06F/g22lp?Ta\'>https://www.gotomypc.com/tr/yh/grp/300_06F/g22lp?Ta\ rget=mm/g22lp.tmpl"; var link="javascript:LRECopenWindow(1)"; var lrec_flashfile = 'http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/expert_city/093002_weather300x250_\ 06f.swf?clickTAG='+link+''; var lrec_altURL = "http://rd./M=233351.2428261.3848243.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:H\ M/A=1261182/R=1/id=altimgurl/* Terms of Service</a>.</tt> </br> </body></html> Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my.'>http://uk.my. 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Guest guest Posted October 5, 2002 Report Share Posted October 5, 2002 diving into the heart arises when there is seeing that only heart is dissolving melting of everything other than that into that then only heart remains x RamanaMaharshi, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs> wrote: > I am interested in sharing descriptions of ways to dive and plunge into the heart. > Mine is with breath retention .Any other views ?Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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