Do Buddhas have Celestial Bodies? Yes.

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RamanaMaharshi, "I-I" <leenalton@h...> wrote:

 

The statement below from Bhagavan regarding the existence of subtle

bodies is his particular opinion, not necessarily shared by other

jnanis or present in all Schools of Hinduism and Buddhism. For

example, in the Pure Land School, Self-Realized Buddhas are accepted

as a part of Pure Land Teachings to inhabit the celestial realm of

the Amitabha Buddha in subtle bodies, for the purpose of helping

unenlightened people make progress toward Enlightenment in the

celestial, subtle realms without having to reincarnate again on the

physical body. Also, the statement "they cannot" sounds rather

emphatic, but no rationale was given on a theoretical basis. A

popular Upanishadic axiom does not support the idea that the body

(celestial or otherwise) in a jnani is a "veil of ignorance":

Om purnamadah purnamidam,

Purnat purnamudacyate

Purnasya purnamadaya

Purnamevavasisyate

 

"OM. That is perfect. This is perfect. From the perfect springs the

perfect. If the perfect is taken from the perfect, the perfect

remains". Thus, body or not, there is no veil of ignorance. A body

is perfect, full in "That", no less so than no body. ....jiva

 

> Two comments about this post.

> One of our yoga teachers claims to have witnessed a yogi who was

ready to leave the body sit in meditation and break the top of his

head to exit his vehicle. This happened on a visit to sacred India.

>

> You all know me as an unbeliever type, but I truly abide in what

Lakshmana has said about Sarada and her "I" thought.

> If you disagree, so what, it is only opinions that can change in a

flash.

>

> About the graveyard Guru click; when the time comes for the Self to

guide you to the ultimate state, then all of the sudden you may get

that push to seek a living Guru.

>

> Love,

> Alton

>

>

> by David Godman..

>

> S.S once asked Sri Ramana about the after-death state of a jnani.

When he asked Sri Ramana whether a jnani could continue to exist on

subtler planes of existence after his death, Sri Ramana replied that

he could not. Then S.S. Cohen mentioned that a famous philosopher

postulated that jnanis have a body of light after they die. Sri

Ramana replied that he could not. Then S.S. Cohen mentioned that a

famous philosopher postulated that jnanis have a body of light after

they die. Sri Ramana replied that jnanis take on no new form of body

after they die because "taking another body means throwing a veil,

however subtle, on reality". He then added that taking another body

is "bondage" whereas "Liberation is absolute and irrevocable. This is

also Sri Lakshmana's point of view.

> Student and devotees of Sri Ramana will not that there are

many other similarities between Ramana Maharshi's teachings and Sri

Lakshmana's. This should not be taken to mean that Swamy's teachings

are an interpretation of, or a commentary on, Sri Ramana's. This is

only true in the few cases where he cites something that Sri Ramana

did or said. Swamy's teaching on the Self are derived from his own

Self-Realization, and not from anything he has heard or read.

> In the conversation that follow, Swamy talks about various

aspects of the Guru and his power. I have included a number of

conversations and comments which seem to be about jnanis rather than

Gurus. I have done this because Swamy, in his role as a Guru, often

talks about himself in the third person as 'the jnani'. For example,

instead of saying, "When I look at a devotee's mind" he will say,

When the jnani looks at the devotee's mind". I have included many

comments of this type because they shed valuable light on the way

that Sri Lakshmana functions as a Guru. ..................

>

> Question: What is the role of the Guru?

> Swamy: The Guru is the Self in the Heart of each devotee. When

the devotee makes an effort to be without thoughts or to surrender to

the Self, the Guru within responds. He watches the effort make by the

devotee and transmits the grace of the Self. Eventually, if the

devotee is ripe, the Self pulls the mind into the Heart and destroys

it.

> Question: You say that a Guru is essential. Does that mean that

one has to be physically near him, or does his grace operate at a

distance?

> Swamy: There is no question of distance for the Self. you are

never away from the grace of the Self. On the other had, it is good

to be in the presence of the Guru because grace is channeled through

the form of the Guru. If the self is everywhere, why did people flock

to see Raman Maharshi during his lifetime? It was because he was

channeling the grace of the self to the people in his physical

proximity. The grace of the Self flows from the physical form of the

Guru. In his presence devotee's minds are automatically quietened.

> Question: You recommend concentration on the name and form of an

enlightened one. Can only concentrate on one of the Gods, such a Rama

or Krishna, instead?

> Swamy: If you concentrate on the name and form of a god, the Self

may take the form of that god and appear before you. These gods are

not apart form the Self, and if you concentrate on them, the grace of

the Self will start to flow.

> Question: So a physical Guru is not absolutely necessary?

> Swamy: You may make good progress by concentration on a god, but

in the final stages of sadhana (spiritual practice)a human Guru is

essential.

> Just before Sarada realized the Self her "I"-thought tried to

escape by breaking her skull. If I had not been present the

experience would have killed her. The "I"-thought would nave broken

her skull and escaped to the higher regions where it would have been

reborn again.

> So, a human Guru is essential. In my own case I was able to

obtain a brief experience of the Self by my own effort, but I was

unable to make it permanent. I knew I needed a Guru. I came to Raman

Maharshi

> and by his grace I realized the Self.

> Question: But Ramana Maharshi had no Guru.

> Swami: In very rare cases the Self within acts as the Guru, but

in all other cases a Guru is essential.

> Question; If one does not have a Guru, how far can one progress

through individual effort?

> Swamy: If you make an effort the inner Guru will help you to make

progress, but is is very difficult to realize the Self by the inner

Guru alone. Trying to reach the Self by your own efforts is like

digging a well to get a drink of water. If you have a Guru the well

is already dug and you can draw from it any time.

> Question: What if the Guru is no longer in the body? My Guru died

many years ago. Can I realize the Self by concentration on him?

> Swamy: If a Guru gives a devotee a direct experience of the Self

while he is alive, then it may be possible for the devotee to realize

the Self after his death. If no, it will be very difficult.

>

> an