No MInd #3 The Guru

August 5, 2002

by David Godman..

S.S once asked Sri Ramana about the after-death state of a jnani. When he asked

Sri Ramana whether a jnani could continue to exist on subtler planes of

existence after his death, Sri Ramana replied that he could not. Then S.S. Cohen

mentioned that a famous philosopher postulated that jnanis have a body of light

after they die. Sri Ramana replied that he could not. Then S.S. Cohen mentioned

that a famous philosopher postulated that jnanis have a body of light after they

die. Sri Ramana replied that jnanis take on no new form of body after they die

because "taking another body means throwing a veil, however subtle, on reality".

He then added that taking another body is "bondage" whereas "Liberation is

absolute and irrevocable. This is also Sri Lakshmana's point of view.

Student and devotees of Sri Ramana will not that there are many other

similarities between Ramana Maharshi's teachings and Sri Lakshmana's. This

should not be taken to mean that Swamy's teachings are an interpretation of, or

a commentary on, Sri Ramana's. This is only true in the few cases where he cites

something that Sri Ramana did or said. Swamy's teaching on the Self are derived

from his own Self-Realization, and not from anything he has heard or read.

In the conversation that follow, Swamy talks about various aspects of the

Guru and his power. I have included a number of conversations and comments which

seem to be about jnanis rather than Gurus. I have done this because Swamy, in

his role as a Guru, often talks about himself in the third person as 'the

jnani'. For example, instead of saying, "When I look at a devotee's mind" he

will say, When the jnani looks at the devotee's mind". I have included many

comments of this type because they shed valuable light on the way that Sri

Lakshmana functions as a Guru. ..................

Question: What is the role of the Guru?

Swamy: The Guru is the Self in the Heart of each devotee. When the devotee makes

an effort to be without thoughts or to surrender to the Self, the Guru within

responds. He watches the effort make by the devotee and transmits the grace of

the Self. Eventually, if the devotee is ripe, the Self pulls the mind into the

Heart and destroys it.

Question: You say that a Guru is essential. Does that mean that one has to be

physically near him, or does his grace operate at a distance?

Swamy: There is no question of distance for the Self. you are never away from

the grace of the Self. On the other had, it is good to be in the presence of the

Guru because grace is channeled through the form of the Guru. If the self is

everywhere, why did people flock to see Raman Maharshi during his lifetime? It

was because he was channeling the grace of the self to the people in his

physical proximity. The grace of the Self flows from the physical form of the

Guru. In his presence devotee's minds are automatically quietened.

Question: You recommend concentration on the name and form of an enlightened

one. Can only concentrate on one of the Gods, such a Rama or Krishna, instead?

Swamy: If you concentrate on the name and form of a god, the Self may take the

form of that god and appear before you. These gods are not apart form the Self,

and if you concentrate on them, the grace of the Self will start to flow.

Question: So a physical Guru is not absolutely necessary?

Swamy: You may make good progress by concentration on a god, but in the final

stages of sadhana (spiritual practice)a human Guru is essential.

Just before Sarada realized the Self her "I"-thought tried to escape by

breaking her skull. If I had not been present the experience would have killed

her. The "I"-thought would nave broken her skull and escaped to the higher

regions where it would have been reborn again.

So, a human Guru is essential. In my own case I was able to obtain a brief

experience of the Self by my own effort, but I was unable to make it permanent.

I knew I needed a Guru. I came to Raman Maharshi

and by his grace I realized the Self.

Question: But Ramana Maharshi had no Guru.

Swami: In very rare cases the Self within acts as the Guru, but in all other

cases a Guru is essential.

Question; If one does not have a Guru, how far can one progress through

individual effort?

Swamy: If you make an effort the inner Guru will help you to make progress, but

is is very difficult to realize the Self by the inner Guru alone. Trying to

reach the Self by your own efforts is like digging a well to get a drink of

water. If you have a Guru the well is already dug and you can draw from it any

time.

Question: What if the Guru is no longer in the body? My Guru died many years

ago. Can I realize the Self by concentration on him?

Swamy: If a Guru gives a devotee a direct experience of the Self while he is

alive, then it may be possible for the devotee to realize the Self after his

death. If no, it will be very difficult.

August 5, 2002

Two comments about this post.

One of our yoga teachers claims to have witnessed a yogi who was ready to leave

the body sit in meditation and break the top of his head to exit his vehicle.

This happened on a visit to sacred India.

You all know me as an unbeliever type, but I truly abide in what Lakshmana has

said about Sarada and her "I" thought.

If you disagree, so what, it is only opinions that can change in a flash.

About the graveyard Guru click; when the time comes for the Self to guide you to

the ultimate state, then all of the sudden you may get that push to seek a

living Guru.

Love,

Alton

by David Godman..

S.S once asked Sri Ramana about the after-death state of a jnani. When he

asked Sri Ramana whether a jnani could continue to exist on subtler planes of