Two Questions

December 19, 2005

Namaskar Advaitins and Scholars of Vedanta,

I have two questions for you. Recently

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine.

(We are both students of Advaita/Vedanta in the

tradition as taught by Swami Dayananda). I tried

to tell my friend about a beautiful bhajan, which I

believe was composed by Shankara.

The words of the refrain are:

Chidananda Rupa Shivohum Shivohum

Perhaps many of you are familiar with this bhajan,

which lists everything that one is not, and then

repeatedly states the refrain above.

I mentioned to my friend that Shivohum Shivohum

means the same things as Tat Tvam Asi, and she

said that it did not.

She has done some research and has now written to me

with the following information:

" Any sentence that points out the

identity of the self with Brahman is a mahavayka.

There are technically four: One from each Veda which

shows that they are saying the same thing.

Tat tvam Assi - That Thou Art

(from Chandogya upanisad. Sama Veda )

Aham Brahma Asmi- I am Brahman

(from Brhadaranyaka upanisad. Yajur Veda )

Ayam atma Brahma - This self is Brahman

(from Mandukya upanisad. Atharva Veda )

Prajnanam Brahma - Consciousness is Brahman

(from Aitareya upanisad. Rg. Veda )"

End Quote

While the phrase Shivohum may not be one of the

four Mahavakyas which my friend lists above, I am still

of the opinion that its meaning is the same.

Does any one know if this is true? Especially as

it is used in the bhajan?

Also, does anyone know of a link which provides the

exact words to this bhajan, and a good translation in

English? And is the bhajan actually attributed to

Shankara as I had thought?

Many thanks and pranams,

Durga

December 19, 2005

advaitin, "Durga" <durgaji108> wrote:

>

> Namaskar Advaitins and Scholars of Vedanta,

>

> I

>

> I mentioned to my friend that Shivohum Shivohum

> means the same things as Tat Tvam Asi, and she

> said that it did not.

>

Namaste,Durga,

Sivohum, Siva Sohum or Aham is the same thing as saying Aham

Brahmasmi. I am God.

However this admits to duality, as there are two persons there, you

and God. Whereas 'Kohum' or 'Who am I' doesn't posit the duality,

and goes direct to the source...............ONS...Tony.

December 19, 2005

"Durga" <durgaji108

Monday, December 19, 2005 6:29 PM

Two Questions

> Also, does anyone know of a link which provides the

> exact words to this bhajan, and a good translation in

> English? And is the bhajan actually attributed to

> Shankara as I had thought?

Dear Durgaji:

Actually, this is more than two questions;-)

The only one I can answer for you is to tell

you that itis on a CD by the Art of Living Institute

called Sacred Chants of Shiva. Just google

in the title and you can find a number of links

where you can purchase it if you like. I have

the CD and it is one of my favorites. It also

has the Shiva Manasa Puja and another

Shankara shloka which AdiMa mentioned in

one of her Bhakti/Jnana posts, Bhavanyastakam.

_/\_

Joyce

December 19, 2005

Durga-ji!

The beautiful bhajan you are refrring to is the Nirvana Shatakam

composed by Jagadguru Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada.

here is the story surrounding this composition ...

Nirvana Shatakam

By Sri Adi Shankara

[ Translated by P. R. Ramachander ]

This is one of the rare stotras written by Adi Shankara Bhagavat Pada

identifying himself with Lord Shiva and clearly explaining his theory

of non-dualism. It is mellifluous and has remarkable tempo. There is

a story that one of his disciples started saying Shivoham like the

Acharya without understanding its significance. The Acharya visited

the black smith's house and happily drank one tumbler of molten iron

and ordered the disciple to do so. Naturally he was not able to do

it. The Acharya told him that as for himself the molten iron or ice

cold water are not different because he has realized that he is no

different from Lord Shiva, And till the disciple attains that

state, there is no point in his repeating Shivoham i.e "I am Shiva"

1

Mano budhya ahankara chithaa ninaham,

Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer,

Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu,

Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham

Neither am I mind, nor intelligence ,

Nor ego, nor thought,

Nor am I ears or the tongue or the nose or the eyes,

Nor am I earth or sky or air or the light,

But I am Shiva the all pervading happiness,

Yes, I am definitely Shiva.

2

Na cha praana samgno na vai pancha vaayur,

Na vaa saptha dhathur na va pancha kosa,

Na vak pani padam na chopa stha payu,

Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham

Neither am I the movement due to life,

Nor am I the five airs, nor am I the seven elements,

Nor am I the five internal organs,

Nor am I voice or hands or feet or other organs,

But I am Shiva the all pervading happiness,

Yes, I am definitely Shiva

3

Na me dwesha raghou na me lobha mohou,

Madho naiva me naiva matsarya bhava,

Na dharmo na cha artha na kamo na moksha,

Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham

I never do have enmity or friendship,

Neither do I have vigour nor feeling of competition,

Neither do I have assets, or money or passion or salvation,

But I am Shiva the all pervading happiness,

Yes, I am definitely Shiva

4

Na punyam na paapam na soukhyam na dukham,

Na manthro na theertham na veda na yagna,

Aham bhojanam naiva bhojyam na bhoktha,

Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham

Never do I have good deeds or sins or pleasure or sorrow,

Neither do I have holy chants or holy water or holy books or fire

sacrifice,

I am neither food or the consumer who consumes food,

As I am Shiva the all pervading happiness,

Yes, I am definitely Shiva

5

Na mruthyur na sankha na me jathi bhedha,

Pitha naiva me naiva matha na janma,

Na bhandhur na mithram gurur naiva sishya,

Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham

I do not have death or doubts or distinction of caste,

I do not have either father or mother or even birth,

And I do not have relations or friends or teacher or students,

As I am Shiva the all pervading happiness,

Yes, I am definitely Shiva

6

Aham nirvi kalpi nirakara roopi,

Vibhuthwascha sarvathra sarvendriyanaam,

Na cha sangatham naiva mukthir na meya

Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham

I am one without doubts , I am without form,

Due to knowledge I do not have any relation with my organs,

And I am always redeemed,

And I am Shiva the all pervading happiness,

Yes, I am definitely Shiva

http://www.indiadivine.org/hinduism/articles/220/1/Nirvana-Shatakam -

you can hear this bhajan in the melodious voice of vocalist Sri

Rasbihari Desai at

http://www.divyajivan.org/shivaratri/audio clips.htm - 12k - Cached -

durgaji :

These verses are part of Jnana yoga . i would encourage you to read

the following material presented

http://geocities.com/advaitins/Quintessence.html - 15k - Cached

I am siva means i am siva, the god !

it can also mean i have attained sivahood !

Whether SIVA(GOD) is Brahman or Brahman is Siva, i am not qualified

to answer ! i would let other learned members here tackle that

question!

the translation of the sloka i have posted may not be the best ;

there are other translation that are available ! this sloka may be

known by another name, i cannot readily recall!

Enjoy the bliss of Shiva!

Aum Namaha Shivaya!

advaitin, "Durga" <durgaji108> wrote:

>

> Namaskar Advaitins and Scholars of Vedanta,

>

> I have two questions for you. Recently

> I was having a discussion with a friend of mine.

> (We are both students of Advaita/Vedanta in the

> tradition as taught by Swami Dayananda). I tried

> to tell my friend about a beautiful bhajan, which I

> believe was composed by Shankara.

>

December 19, 2005

praNAms

Hare Krishna

durgA mAtAji :

While the phrase Shivohum may not be one of the

four Mahavakyas which my friend lists above, I am still

of the opinion that its meaning is the same.

bhaskar :

not only four mahAvAkya-s, all the sentences in our sacred scripture

implicitly aimed to convey the highest teaching of *tattvamasi*...shivOhaM,

sOhaM etc. etc. conveying the same meaning that brahman is

sat(existence)-chit (knowledge) -Ananda (bliss) rUpa.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

December 19, 2005

bhaskar.yr wrote:

praNAms

Hare Krishna

durgA mAtAji :

While the phrase Shivohum may not be one of the

four Mahavakyas which my friend lists above, I am still

of the opinion that its meaning is the same.

bhaskar :

not only four mahAvAkya-s, all the sentences in our sacred scripture

implicitly aimed to convey the highest teaching of *tattvamasi*...shivOhaM,

sOhaM etc. etc. conveying the same meaning that brahman is

sat(existence)-chit (knowledge) -Ananda (bliss) rUpa.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

From

Sankarraman

Yes, Sivoham has the same significance and validity as the other

Mahavakyas, especially, the, 'Tatvam Asi'. Infact, this mantra has a mystic

significance in that this japa automatically goes on in one's system, except

that one is not aware of it. In the process of breathing when there is the

inward breathing there is the sound, "So", the outgoing breath taking the

sound, "Ham". The watching of the breath with this japa leads to the awareness

of ajapa whics is natural, being known as, "Ajapa Gayitri", in the

terminologies of great yogies like Tirumular. More than the Vedantins, the

yogis follow this mantra. Saint Ramalingar says that if you become consciously

aware of this mantra, thoughts cease. Saint Thayumanavar says that the Mouna

Guru initiated him into this path. The Buddhistic Vipasanna meditation

advocates only this technique. The Tamil yogis and devotees of Lord Siva term

this mantra as Vasi, the reverse of the word Siva. The awareness of Vasi,

according to the yogis leads to liberation, through the stoppage of the prana

in the first instance. The mere stoppage of the prana leading to Kevalakumbaka

is not the aim of the yogis, as is assumed by some vedantins. The stoppage of

prana is only a precursor to self-realization. This stoppage of prana, as a

well-recognized technique to stop the fluctuations of the mind, as a

preliminary to realize the Self, has been extensively expatiated upon in the

famous text Yogavasishta.

Sankarraman

December 19, 2005

Tony OClery <aoclery wrote: advaitin,

"Durga" <durgaji108> wrote:

>

> Namaskar Advaitins and Scholars of Vedanta,

>

> I

>

> I mentioned to my friend that Shivohum Shivohum

> means the same things as Tat Tvam Asi, and she

> said that it did not.

>

Namaste,Durga,

Sivohum, Siva Sohum or Aham is the same thing as saying Aham

Brahmasmi. I am God.

However this admits to duality, as there are two persons there, you

and God. Sir,

I don't think that this mantra admits of duality. This is

synonymous with with Tatvam Asi, except that the mantra Sivoham is rather

mystic, involving a meditation on the Conscious Being, where there is no

meditator, but only meditation. This mantra is very much relavant to the yogic

path of Chitta Vritti Nirodha, rather than the Vedantic concept of Knowledge.

This leads to Kaivalya, whereas Vedanta is only one of understanding as against

deliberate meditation.

Sankarraman

December 20, 2005

>Sivohum, Siva Sohum or Aham is the same thing as saying Aham

>Brahmasmi. I am God.

>However this admits to duality, as there are two persons there, you

>and God.

If you look at shivoham, it says shiva is me, so I don't understand

where is dualism? Even in Aham Brahmasmi we have two entities Aham

Brahma Asmi,(Aham and Brahma) so is there is a dualism in this? No.

The reason why there are two things, in these vakyas are, that is the

way ordinary humans perceives the world as, and vedanta is their to

unite everything into one thing.(I think even Search of Single theory

to accommodate all the forces of nature will eventually end in advaita...)

Tat Twam Asi...

Thanks

Prashanth.K

December 20, 2005

>I tried

> to tell my friend about a beautiful bhajan, which I

> believe was composed by Shankara.

>

> The words of the refrain are:

> Chidananda Rupa Shivohum Shivohum

>

OM TAT SAT

Check out www.vedamantram.com. The Nirvanashatkam is sung beautifully and the

mp3 file is free.Contribution is voluntary but for a good cause - a vedic

school in India.

OM TAT SAT

December 20, 2005

Many thanks to all Advaitins for your kind replies.

Interestingly enough, I also did some searching,

and found that bhajan is called Nirvanashtakam.

I found another translation of it:

www.cse.iitb.ac.in/~siva/nirvana.pdf

In this translation, `Shivoham' is translated

as `I am Auspiciousness.'

I printed out this version of the bhajan and showed

it to my teacher, who told me that in this instance

`Shivoham' does mean, `I am Auspiciousness,' and not

`I am the Lord Shiva.'

Addressing the point that the phrase `I am God'

posits two I would say this.

`I am God,' or `I am Brahman,' means that the

Self that I am *is* the Self that Brahman is.

There are not two Selves. There is only One.

To have the student directly realize the truth

of this statement, which truth is totally 100%

experientially present at all times, but taken

by the mind to be something else, (i.e. a product

of the body/mind), is, in my understanding, the

purpose of the whole teaching of Vedanta.

So the statement 'I am Brahman' never in any

way posits two (although it may initially sound

as if it does).

These three words, `I am Brahman,' or any of the

Mahavakyas, in the hands of a qualified teacher,

who knows how to unfold them properly, (knocking off

all that which I had previously taken myself to be,

and then pointing directly to that which I am) work as a

pramana, a direct means of Knowledge, to 'show' the student,

without the possibility of a shadow of a doubt remaining,

that his/her own Self, *is* the Self of Brahman, of which there

is only One, and which in no way is ever divided.

This is what I understand to be true.

Again, many thanks,

Durga

December 20, 2005

"Sivam" means "Kalyanam"/"Mangalam"=all good things/auspicious.Lord Siva is one

who bestows "Sivam" on his devotee.Siva(m)+Aham="Sivoham"-.So it can be

interpreted "let me be one who things and does all good things to my fellow

beings-

well I think the Mahaavkyam "Aham Brahmaasmi" is to be interpreted on

sri.Maharishi Ramana's Siddhaantha-I am stopping at this point-ssrvj

Durga <durgaji108 wrote:

Many thanks to all Advaitins for your kind replies.

Interestingly enough, I also did some searching,

and found that bhajan is called Nirvanashtakam.

December 20, 2005

List Moderator's Note: List wants to thank the members for their continued

support to list policies and guidelines. Please do not include the previous

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sending your replies. Both the new members and other members do seem to continue

to repeat doing this. The list appreciates your cooperation in keeping the

message crisp and clear by removing all unnecessary parts of previous messages.

(As it is done in this message!)

Na cha praana samgno na vai pancha vaayur,

Na vaa saptha dhathur na va pancha kosa,

Na vak pani padam na chopa stha payu,

Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham

Neither am I the movement due to life,

Nor am I the five airs, nor am I the seven elements,

Nor am I the five internal organs,

Nor am I voice or hands or feet or other organs,

But I am Shiva the all pervading happiness,

Yes, I am definitely Shiva

the Maanasic(Psychic) and Sariric(Somatic) traits mentioned in the above verse

are originally found in the Chatur(4) Vihumsadhi(1/5 th of 100=20)

tattvam(20+4=24) of Saankya Philosophy of sarvasri.Kapilamuni(Extinct) and

Eswara Krishna-Vignaanana Bhikshu (Extant).Sri Sankara uses those concepts in

his verses

Panca vaayu means not 5 "airs"-but 5 vital "forcesPranopaana vyanodhana

Samana--Sahpranaha"is a Vedha Mantaram-Acharya sri.sankara uses them asthey

are.All the vital organs above the line connecting the eyebrows(cerebrum/

cerebellum/ medulla oblangataetc) are controlled by "Vyaana vayu" . the organs

between the brow-and nipple line-is controlled by "praanavayu"--between

umbilicus and nipple-line by Udhaana vayu andbelow umbilical-lne by Apaana vayu

Regarding Saptha Dhatus and Panca Kosam we shall discuss inmy next post-ssrvj

adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16 wrote:

Durga-ji!

The beautiful bhajan you are refrring to is the Nirvana Shatakam

composed by Jagadguru Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada.

December 20, 2005

Hari OM!

Dear all,

Shivoham and the Great Mahavakyas cannot be the same meaning at any point of

time, Shivoham is Sri Sankaracharya's own version realising, that I am that

Shiva, Still Acharya is not saying in the Nirvana Shatkam, "Aham Brahmasmi"

(I am Brahman) he is indicating that only.

And as per my understanding, Shiva is one of the trinity, (Brahma, Vishnu &

Shiva)even though utlimately, it is all the same Brahman, but Shiva is

Saguna Brahman, And Shankaracharya is the Avtaar of Lord Shiva. Avtaar is

"Fallen Down" from that Nirvikapla state. Brahman either having all the

qualities or no qualities at all, Nirguna, Nirakara Brahmam! Para Brahmam!

So Shivoham is the indication of "That Thou Art" but we cannot use it

instead of the Mahavakyas. Please enlighten If my understanding seems to be

misunderstanding. due to ignorance. The veil of Maya, and still not a

Sanyasi! or Zenyasi!

With Love & OM!

Krishna Prasad

On 12/20/05, Rajagopalan Somayaji <ssrvj wrote:

>

> "Sivam" means "Kalyanam"/"Mangalam"=all good things/auspicious.Lord Siva

> is one who bestows "Sivam" on his devotee.Siva(m)+Aham="Sivoham"-.So it

> can be interpreted "let me be one who things and does all good things to my

> fellow beings-

>

> well I think the Mahaavkyam "Aham Brahmaasmi" is to be interpreted on

> sri.Maharishi Ramana's Siddhaantha-I am stopping at this point-ssrvj

>

> Durga <durgaji108 wrote:

> Many thanks to all Advaitins for your kind replies.

> Interestingly enough, I also did some searching,

> and found that bhajan is called Nirvanashtakam.

>

December 20, 2005

advaitin, "Durga" <durgaji108> wrote:

>

> Namaskar Advaitins and Scholars of Vedanta,

>

> " Any sentence that points out the

> identity of the self with Brahman is a mahavayka.

> There are technically four: One from each Veda which

> shows that they are saying the same thing.

>From my understanding, Mahavakyas are NOT just 4 in number. Any

sentence that brings about the Ishwara and Jiva identity is a

Mahavakya. All Updanishads have Mahavakyas because all of them talk

about Jiva and Ishwara identity.

Correct me if I'am wrong.

Thanks & Regards

Partha

December 20, 2005

advaitin, "Durga" <durgaji108> wrote:

>

> > So the statement 'I am Brahman' never in any

> way posits two (although it may initially sound

> as if it does).

Namaste,

It does posit two subjects, I and Brahman. I can't find the actual

Maharshi quote but he indicated the same,

"Q: Am I to keep on repeating 'Who am I?' so as to makes a mantra of

it?

A: No. 'Who am I?' is not a mantra. It means that you must find out

where

in you arises the 'I'-thought, which is the source of all other

thoughts.

Q: Shall I meditate on 'I am Brahman' [Aham Brahmasmi]?

A: The text is not meant for thinking 'I am Brahman'. Aham ['I'] is

known

to every one. Find out the 'I'. The 'I' is already Brahman. You need

not

think so. Simply find out the 'I'."................ONS...Tony.

December 20, 2005

advaitin, "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote:

> "...The 'I' is already Brahman..."

> ONS...Tony.

Yes, I is Brahman. Therefore not two subjects,

only Brahman.

(Two posts, that's it for today)

Durga

December 20, 2005

advaitin, "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote:

>

> advaitin, "Durga" <durgaji108> wrote:

> >

> > > So the statement 'I am Brahman' never in any

> > way posits two (although it may initially sound

> > as if it does).

>

> Namaste,

>

> It does posit two subjects, I and Brahman. I can't find the

actual

> Maharshi quote but he indicated the same,

Namaste,

A study of this site (excerpted below will be helpful:

Leaves from the Diary of T. K. Sundaresa Iyer

http://www.ramana-maharshi.org/atfeet.htm

(34) THE RIBHU GITA

An anecdote about the translation by Bhikshu Sastri is worth

relating. Deeply struck by pure Advaita of the teachings in this

Gita, the translator held so steadfastly to that glorious doctrine

that he denied the truth or reality of all phenomena, including the

Gods themselvea; he said their existence is as true only as that of

the barren woman's son, the hare's horn and the flowers seen in the

sky. Teased too much by his atheism, the manifest Gods put the

translator to the test, and he lost his eye sight; only when he

wrote verses in praise of Lord Nataraja was his sight restored to

him. To have this punishment for daring to defy the Form-aspect

(saguna) of the Formless (nirguna) Divine excused, he had to write a

verse in praise of Sri Nataraja at the end of each of the 44

chapters of the Ribhu-Gita.

"He is freed while alive (jivanmukta) who, motionless like the Hill,

is still and immaculate, the Self in Itself, absolute Existence

experienced as Bliss. Rid of individuality, rid of all concepts, he

who is still, as pure Light, immaculate, peaceful solid Bliss is

free without a body (videhamukta). Knowing, feeling, thinking,

praying, determining, mingling, abiding - all these must be in the

Self Itself. Meditate incessantly on 'Aham brahmasmi' until it

becomes permanent; later on, be freed from even this thought and be

the Self Itself alone. …………………

"Let the Pure Existence of the Divine alone be realized; if the sun

of this Knowledge arises, how can the darkness of ignorance prevail?

The mind of him who is certain that the Divine is one and whole

cannot be shaken by the Great Illusion (maya) even if the vast Mount

Meru be shaken by tying it to a thread. Practice "That am I''

(soham); the experience 'I am Siva' (Sivoham) will make you into

Siva. Therefore sing 'Sivoham, Sivoham, Sivoham!''

Regards,

Sunder

December 20, 2005

Dear Respected Durgaji,

Hari Om. Namaskar.

I have heard some discussion on Mahavakya topic in Vedanta Saara

lectures. My study and reflection on this subject is incomplete so I

really do not qualify to comment. However still venturing to give

here this incomplete and error filled understanding just for my own

reflection so when learned ones will comment on it I will learn from

it.

I think if 'Shiv' is considered as 'Brahman' then it will be

Mahavakya but if it is taken as 'Auspiciousness' then it can't be

called as Mahavakya.

For something to be Mahavakya the two words (e.g. "Tat" and "Tvam")

must share same substratum. Their vachyartha(verbal meaning) has to

have 'qualifier-qualified relationship' like they are adjectives of

each others and their lakshyartha(indicated meaning) has to

have 'indicator and indicated relationship' (that means when the

differences in their limiting adjuncts are dropped the essence that

remains should be same.)

The example that is given to explain this is - say there is a guy

called Devadutta that I saw 20 years ago as a child in India and if

I see him now in US as a mature man and say "This is THAT

Devadatta"("Soyam Devadattah"). Mahavakya is like that.

The individual and the cosmic, Avidya and Maya, Jiva and Ishwara,

Atman and Brahman are the aspects which correspond themselves to the

meaning of the terms "Twam" and "Tat" or "Thou" and "That". Just

like "This" and "That" refer to same "Devadutta" like that

substratum of "Tat" and "Tvam" is same.

The individual and the cosmic persons respectively limited by Avidya

and Maya, namely, the Jiva and the Ishwara, are two personalities

differentiated by space and time. When the verbal meaning or the

Vachyartha of the Mahavakya is taken, the Jiva is asserted to be

Ishwara himself in the Pindanda. The Vishwa, Taijasa and Prajna of

the microcosm or the Pindanda correspond closely to the Virat,

Hiranyagarbha and Ishwara of the macrocosm or the Brahmanda. Thus

the Jiva is an exact copy of or is identical with Ishwara.

When the Lakshyartha or the indicative meaning of the sentence is

brought out in the example "Soyam Devadattah" or "This is that

Devadatta." the limitations are cast off and the essence only is

taken. Atman limited by Avidya is Jiva and Brahman limited by Maya

is Ishwara. When the Avidya of Jiva is cast off and the Maya of

Ishwara is ignored, what remains is Atman instead of Jiva and

Brahman instead of Ishwara. Just as the Devadatta of India was the

same as the Devadatta of US, the Reality of Ishwara and the Reality

of the Jiva are one and the same. Hence Atman is identical with

Brahman. "Thou" stands for the Atman and "That" for Brahman, and the

word "art" or "Asi" signifies the identity of the two as the One

Akhanda-Ekarasa-Satchidananda-Ghana.

In order to analyse 'Shivoham' we need to know from your Teacher

what is 'Shiv', what is its 'wachyartha' and what is

its 'lakshyartha'. On face value 'Auspiciousness' seems like a

characteristic of 'I' rather than 'I' itself. Also it is ruling out

all other characteristics of Brahman e.g. Bliss-Consciousness-Truth

etc. Wherease when we say "Aham Brahmasmi" or "Tat Tvam Asi" this

doesn't happen.

There are lot of loose ends in my current understanding.

I request learned list members to please write your valuable

comments so I will learn from it and will be able to better reflect.

Love and Respect

Padma

advaitin, "Durga" <durgaji108> wrote:

states the refrain above.

>

> I mentioned to my friend that Shivohum Shivohum

> means the same things as Tat Tvam Asi, and she

> said that it did not.

> Many thanks and pranams,

> Durga

>

December 21, 2005

Sunder Hattangadi <sunderh wrote: --- In