Knowledge of Non-Duality: from Bhagavatam VII - Ch.15

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

I am at present reading this passage from the Bhagavatam

(Skanda VII, Chapter 15). It is a sequence of nine shlokas,

a part of what was said by Narada to Yudhishtira. It is on

the whole a deep and concise dissertation on advaita. I

would like the advaitin list members to study this and

discuss it if they like. The translation I am giving below

is Swami Tapasyananda’s, from his Bhagavatam book. I

shall follow this by another part, where I shall give his

own (Swami Tapasyananda’) comments on the same shlokas,

as a footnote (in the form of an analysis of solipsism and

advaita). Both parts are to be read in order to get a

total picture. I am giving the original shlokas also so

that one can venture on one’s own translation. (The numbers

refer to the shlokas of chaptedr 15):

 

57. AdAvante janAnAm sat bahir-antaH parAvaram /

jnAnaM jneyaM vaco vAcyaM tamo jyotis-tvayaM svayaM //

 

That which was before the origin of the body and remains as

it was, unsublated at its dissolution; which manifests both

as the enjoyer and the enjoyed, the high and the low,

knowledge and the object of knowledge, word and its

significance, light and darkness – all these are the

knowing one himself. (Where there is nothing as the

‘other’, different from the Self, there is no question of

infatuation or fear.)

 

58. AbAdhito’pi hyAbhAso yathA vastutayA smRRitaH /

durghaTatvAd-aindriyakaM tadvad-artha-vikalpitaM //

 

The reflection of an object is actually observed as

existing, though in the eye of logic it is not there where

it is seen. In the same way, the objects experienced are

not existences independent in themselves, as it is contrary

to fact. (They are the expression of the will of the

Supreme Being appearing to be independent existences so

long as the Jiva does not realise his oneness with the

Supreme.)

 

59. kshityAdInAm-ihArthAnAM cchAyA na kathamApi hi /

na sanghAto vikAro’pi na pRRithang nAnvito mRRishA //

 

In the Being of the Lord, there is not the shadow even of

earth and other material elements, neither as a collection

of parts, nor as a development, nor as a

transformation.They are not in separation from Him, nor in

union with Him in a way that affects His entity. They form

a Mithya - - an experience without ultimacy.

 

60. dhAtavo’vayavitvAcca tanmAtrA-vayavair-vinA /

na syur-hyasat-yavayavin-yasan-navayavo’ntataH //

 

Even primordial elements, which are ‘wholes’ formed by

collocations of their subtle ingredients called tanmAtras,

do not really exist apart from these ingredients. The

‘whole’ is only something imagined to explain the

combination of parts. Now if the ‘whole’ is imaginary and

unreal, the parts that are supposed to form them also must

be unreal.

 

61 syAt-sAdRRishya-bhramas-tAvat vikalpe sati vastunaH /

jAgrat-svApau yathA svapne tathA vidhi-nishhedhatA //

 

Even though there is no difference in the Atman, the sense

of recognition based on difference would persist so long as

there is ajnAna. Then the question will arise whether the

scriptural prohibitions and injunctions based on the sense

of difference will not be unreal and not binding. The

answer is that they are binding only so long there is spell

of ignorance. It is just like sleeping and waking

experienced in the course of a dream. After the basic dream

breaks, they have no relevance. Such is the case with the

Vedic injunctions and prohibitions.

 

62. bhAva-advaitaM kriya-advaitaM dravya-advaitaM

tathA’’tmanaH /

vartayan svAnubhUty-eha trIn svapnAn dhunute muniH //

 

By the practice of Bhaavaadvaita, Kriyaadvaita and

Dravyaadvaita in regard to the Atman, the aspirant can

overcome the three dreams – the state of waking, the dream

proper, and sleep (or the difference of objects, of rites

according to competency, and claim to the fruits of

actions).

 

63. kArya-kAraNa-vastvaikya-marshanaM paTa-tantuvat /

avastutvAd-vikalpasya bhAvAdvaitaM taduchyate //

 

Duality is only imaginary and not real in itself. The

reality of an effect lies in its cause, as of cotton

fabrics in cotton. Cotton, the causal susbtance is real,

and the fabrics are one with it. To cognise in that way the

unity of all existence in the One Supreme Cause is

bhaavaadvaita.

 

64. yad brahmaNi pare sAkshhAt sarva-karma-samarpaNaM /

manovAk-tanubhiH pArtha kriyaadvaitaM taduchyate //

 

Kriyaadvaita is the offering of all one’s actions by body,

speech and mind in the supreme Brahman.

 

65. AtmajAyA-sutAdInAM anyeshhAM sarva-dehinAM /

yat svArtha-kAmayor-aikyaM dravyaadvaitaM tad-uchyate //

 

The recognition that the need for wealth and other means of

physical life is the same for oneself and one’s close kith

and kin, on the one hand, and for strangers, on the other,

is Dravaadvaita.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

 

Ongoing new series of pages on my website: 'Bhagavatam and Advaita Bhakti'

starting with

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/VK2/Bhagavatam_Introduction.html

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

I give below Swami Tapasyananda's comments on the nine

shlokas for which his translation was provided in the

previous post

advaitin/message/27613

------------

This passage is very obscure and different commentators can

interpret it differently according to their respective

metaphysics. The one central idea is that the Lord is the

sole existence, including in himself the relative subject,

the Jiva, and the relative object, the world. But the unity

or integrity of the Lord is not in the least affected by

the Jiva and the Jagat. This is said to be the function of

the mysterious power of the Lord (Maya) – to manifest

without being affected. Others try to give a logical

explanation for it by describing it as Mithya – an

appearance which is felt but is not actually there, a

phenomenon that is experienced but has no ultimacy.

 

But the question arises : who experiences these apparent

phenomena? One will have to say it is the Lord Himself, or

an experiencing subject, the Jiva which is under delusion.

As pure advaitins accept the identity of the Jiva and

Iswara, the question posed is irrelevant to them, they will

say that the world is the result of delusion and this

delusion is in whoever experiences it.The answer will not

satisfy many, as its implication is solipsism

(dRRishhTi-sRRishhTi-vAda).

 

Others therefore maintain that the Supreme Being has an

inherent Power or Will called by various names – as mAyA,

prakRRiti, shakti, etc.; for, He is both Being and

Will.Both the subject (the Jiva) and the object (the world)

are expressions of His Will, the Shakti, while He Himself

is the uninvolved witness of both, of the involved

consciousness or the Jiva and of the changeful world of

objecivity. The Jiv a, being a centre of consciousness, can

by the Grace of that divine Will or Shakti that brought

about its sense of separation, recognise his onesess with

the Divine also. He then ceases to be an individual as a

drop of water ceases to be a drop when it goes into the

ocean.

 

The question will now crop up: What happens to all the

other Jivas and the world when one Jiva overcomes ignorance

and attains salvation? The answer varies: The

dRRishhTi-sRRishhTi-vAdins or solipsists, who find the

basis of the world in the individual’s ignorance, would

maintain that the question will cease to have any

relevancy as the whole of duality vanishes with the

cessation of ignorance, just as all the persons and things

included in a dream vanish when the dream vanishes.

Individuality and multiplicity are bound up with the state

of ignorance whose locus is the individual. The

subject-objectless Reality alone is.

 

The second school of Vedanta, designated by pure advaitins

as a school of compromise, would consider this view as

solipsistic. The individual’s ignorance springs from mAyA,

the will or the power of Brahman, and all involved beings

are subject to it. The individual’s ignorance is only a

distorted expression of the Divine MayA in him. The MayA of

Ishvara is Cosmic Power, whereas its distorted expression

in the Jiva as ignorance is a disvalue hiding the truth. So

when a jIva breaks the spell of ignorance, that centre gets

identified with the Supreme, but the others continue in

separateness without the awareness of their basic Oneness

with Him. If, however, a Jiva’s individuality is retained

even after illumination, he shares the world-awareness with

the Divine, the Lord. MayA, the Divine Will that projects

the world, is no longer a factor of bondage and suffering

for him but a Divine Leela or sport in which he is a

participant. Such a Jiva appears as a world Teacher, a

Supreme Lover and the Playmate of God, through whom the

Jivas in bondage are redeemed. The Bhagavata seems to

highlight this ideal, even while expounding the solipsistic

idea of Vedanta.

 

------------

 

PraNAms to all advaitins

profvk

 

 

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

 

Ongoing new series of pages on my website: 'Bhagavatam and Advaita Bhakti'

starting with

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/VK2/Bhagavatam_Introduction.html

[Guest guest]

"-- In advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk>

wrote:

> Namaste

>

> I give below Swami Tapasyananda's comments on the nine

> shlokas for which his translation was provided in the

> previous post

> advaitin/message/27613

> ------------

> This passage is very obscure and different commentators can

> interpret it differently according to their respective

> metaphysics. The one central idea is that the Lord is the

> sole existence, including in himself the relative subject,

> the Jiva, and the relative object, the world. But the unity

> or integrity of the Lord is not in the least affected by

> the Jiva and the Jagat. This is said to be the function of

> the mysterious power of the Lord (Maya) – to manifest

> without being affected. Others try to give a logical

> explanation for it by describing it as Mithya – an

> appearance which is felt but is not actually there, a

> phenomenon that is experienced but has no ultimacy.

>

> But the question arises : who experiences these apparent

> phenomena? One will have to say it is the Lord Himself, or

> an experiencing subject, the Jiva which is under delusion.

> As pure advaitins accept the identity of the Jiva and

> Iswara, the question posed is irrelevant to them, they will

> say that the world is the result of delusion and this

> delusion is in whoever experiences it.The answer will not

> satisfy many, as its implication is solipsism

> (dRRishhTi-sRRishhTi-vAda)....................."

>

> > Namaste Prof. V. Krishnamurthy,

 

thank you for this very interesting message....

thank you for the "will" in "you".....(from wherever...)....to share

such clear words

 

the question :

"What happens to all the other Jivas and the world when one Jiva

overcomes ignorance and attains salvation?"

....is a very deep and interesting question

hope to get closer to the truth in it...

 

there is description of two (different) Vedanta schools...and their

(individual) "view" of things

 

maybe it's in the nature of "advaitins" that all have little

differences in mind.....but sitting as neighbors in the Same

classroom......

 

.....and communicate to (with) same power and heart they believe in

 

the ones from the described first school leave the classroom after

some lessons.....

and enter in a classroom ...which include All....

the ones from the described second school seem to stay in the

classroom....and get the role sometimes as teacher...

 

....this teacher when teaching....teach again All......and receive the

power of his/her teaching by All....

 

maybe one only can teach....when there is the power of "Oneness"

behind.....

if not.....how could it ever be a "complete" teaching...?

 

(some teach a complete teaching....by complete Silence)

 

 

 

to the question above....

maybe the "other" Jivas remain student (of life and liberation and

illusions and truth....and...)

.....with or without consciousness of it..........with more or less

consciousness......more or less awareness........

more or less involved to Karma law

 

....in the dream of the one who got salvation....and got complete

Awareness about It

 

 

 

this are few thoughts....coming out of mind.....sitting in the

classroom with many interested minds......

i'm open minded....(the door of the classroom remain open)

and sure....one need a break sometimes....

for meditation and (other)activities....

 

Regards and Love

 

Marc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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