Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

Shri Atmananda's teachings - 7. The background

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Dear Ananda,

 

Your discussion of Sri Atmananda's Background sounds just like what I

have read in Ramana and Nisargadatta. Evidently the three of them

are all reading from the same script, or else they have independently

had the same experience. I have faith that it is the latter.

 

If this 'background' is simply 'consciousness' (cit), which is the

same as 'existence' (sat), then this idea of a background simply says

that there is but one reality or existence, which is consciousness.

Notice that the word 'background' is not precisely correct, in that

it suggests some slight distinction between background and objects,

just as between the canvas and the paints covering the canvas. I am

sure you would agree that in our case, the background becomes the

sole reality, and not merely 'what is behind'.

 

Another subtlety has to do with the notion that the objects seems

like 'pictures'. There are two levels to the picture. One is the

picture in our mind, which is what I call 'perception'. (There are

also 'thoughts', but let us stick with perceptions for the moment.)

A perception is clearly nothing but consciousness. But in our normal

dualistic frame of mind, this picture in our mind seems to refer to

another picture 'out there', outside of our consciousness, that is,

to the 'material form' which is taken to be the true reality of which

our perception is only a 'photograph'.

 

Hence, I think it is important, if we are to avoid confusion, to

begin by realizing that there is no basis whatsoever for the material

form outside of consciousness, since this supposed 'outside' is

utterly inaccessible and unverifiable. And at a more subtle level

the material entity is quite meaningless, being nothing but a

hypothetical extrapolation from our perceptual consciousness, such

that its very definition and content are in terms of those very

perceptions. For example, when we try to imagine the space in which

these objects supposedly reside, we can do so only in terms of space

as revealed to visual perception. I could say much more...

 

Once the material objects are banished, we can then concentrate on

the pictures in our mind, namely, the perceptions themselves. It is

but a small step to realize that they are nothing but the background,

consciousness. Wherever there is a perception, there is

consciousness, and I can detect no difference between the

consciousness and the perception, when I silently introspect upon any

perception.

 

Indeed, that is how I answer the question, 'How can perceptions and

consciousness be identified, since the perceptions are many and

changing and the consciousness is one and unchanging?' I simply

realize that wherever there is a perception, there is consciousness,

and this consciousness at any given moment is a homogeneous,

undivided entity. That is, all the perceptions in my mind at any

given moment are but one consciousness. This may seem paradoxical

when put into words, but it is the simple result of silent

introspection.

 

I think the next step would be to realize that the succeeding moments

of time are also all part of one consciousness, but I am not there

yet.

 

All this can be arrived at through dry, academic philosophy. What is

really new and interesting in Advaita and related paths is the

spiritual implication. Who would have guessed that realizing the

unity of the background would have anything whatsoever to do with

happiness? Now *that* is counterintuitive. But it is what the

masters say, and I am quite willing to take it as a working

hypothesis from credible people with good reputations. This is how

we must live most of our lives, or else climb into a hole.

 

Hari Om!

Benjamin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Benjamin, Ananda and everyone,

 

Benjamin, as I read the reply you posted to Ananda's presentation of

Sri Atmananda's "Background" Sat-Cit-Ananda, I got interested in perhaps adding

one or two considerations that reflect my opinion and also perhaps link

correctly the notion of the background Consciousness as being the only existent

thing with the notion of a reality which is non-structural, except in our own

twisted interpretations of it.

 

You wrote:

 

If this 'background' is simply 'consciousness' (cit), which is the

same as 'existence' (sat), then this idea of a background simply says

that there is but one reality or existence, which is consciousness.

Notice that the word 'background' is not precisely correct, in that

it suggests some slight distinction between background and objects,

just as between the canvas and the paints covering the canvas. I am

sure you would agree that in our case, the background becomes the

sole reality, and not merely 'what is behind'.

 

As Consciousness is the only existent thing, all perceptions and

even notions that there is in fact some sort of "object" which is not the same

as the perception of it, even the triple "knower-knowledge-knowing" vanish and

Consciousness alone remains as the only existent thing. This would in turn imply

that the only really existent thing is this Consciousness and all seemingly

external reality is then a projection of it. Note that, as the seemingly outside

reality is seen as a projection of Consciousness, it is then no longer different

from Consciousness itself, and then everything is seen as byproducts of

Consciousness, having a relation to it like the waves to the ocean. The waves

and the ocean are not two. As Consciousness is seen as the principal and sole

factor, the understanding of the process of rebirth becomes easy, and in fact

plausible, since Consciousness is the sole reality, and that the subject that

perceives the world and the world are one and the same thing. The concept of

karma and rebirth cannot be reasonably accepted unless one sees that

Consciousness is the supreme factor, and not inert so-called "matter". As matter

appears inside Consciousness, or as it is simply a byproduct of Consciousness,

rebirth is then understood as just another change in this Consciousness.

 

Hence, I think it is important, if we are to avoid confusion, to

begin by realizing that there is no basis whatsoever for the material

form outside of consciousness, since this supposed 'outside' is

utterly inaccessible and unverifiable. And at a more subtle level

the material entity is quite meaningless, being nothing but a

hypothetical extrapolation from our perceptual consciousness, such

that its very definition and content are in terms of those very

perceptions. For example, when we try to imagine the space in which

these objects supposedly reside, we can do so only in terms of space

as revealed to visual perception. I could say much more...

 

Why don't you? It could be of value to a lot of people on Advaitin.

You have probably in a past life reached all this through spiritual experience

and insight, and now it's like you're just starting to remember. Most people

will not get arrive at these conclusions through academical and philosophical

reasoning.

 

Om, Best Wishes,

Fred

 

 

 

 

Sponsor

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Namaste everyone,

 

I have been extremely unable to deliver what I wanted to say in my

posting regarding Sri Atmananda's background. I wrote some wrong sentences

placing words where they were not supposed to. I will try to make a better

message. Sorry. Thanks!

Fred

-

Frederico S. Gonzales

advaitin

Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:20 PM

Re: Shri Atmananda's teachings - 7. The background

 

 

Hello Benjamin, Ananda and everyone,

 

Benjamin, as I read the reply you posted to Ananda's presentation

of Sri Atmananda's "Background" Sat-Cit-Ananda, I got interested in perhaps

adding one or two considerations that reflect my opinion and also perhaps link

correctly the notion of the background Consciousness as being the only existent

thing with the notion of a reality which is non-structural, except in our own

twisted interpretations of it.

 

at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

advaitin, "Frederico S. Gonzales" <fsg@s...>

wrote:

> Namaste everyone,

>

> I have been extremely unable to deliver what I wanted to say

in my posting regarding Sri Atmananda's background. I wrote some

wrong sentences placing words where they were not supposed to. I will

try to make a better message. Sorry. Thanks!

> Fred

 

 

seeking perfection is quite commendable;

excellence can be attained if you constantly strive for perfection,

and you care enough to do your very best in everything, in every way.

eric

> -

> Frederico S. Gonzales

> advaitin

> Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:20 PM

> Re: Shri Atmananda's teachings - 7. The

background

>

>

> Hello Benjamin, Ananda and everyone,

>

> Benjamin, as I read the reply you posted to Ananda's

presentation of Sri Atmananda's "Background" Sat-Cit-Ananda, I got

interested in perhaps adding one or two considerations that reflect

my opinion and also perhaps link correctly the notion of the

background Consciousness as being the only existent thing with the

notion of a reality which is non-structural, except in our own

twisted interpretations of it.

>

> at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at:

advaitin/messages

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Benjamin,

 

I am doing a bit of catching up this Sunday and hence a slightly delayed

question on your 7th Dec mail to Ananda.

 

Benjamin Root <orion777ben wrote:

Once the material objects are banished, we can then concentrate on the pictures

in our mind, namely, the perceptions themselves. It is but a small step to

realize that they are nothing but the background, consciousness. Wherever there

is a perception, here is consciousness, and I can detect no difference between

the consciousness and the perception, when I silently introspect upon any

perception.

 

Indeed, that is how I answer the question, 'How can perceptions and

consciousness be identified, since the perceptions are many and changing and the

consciousness is one and unchanging?'

 

VENKAT - M

If the material objects out there are banished, how do we account for the

changes in the pictures in our mind?

 

Regards,

 

Venkat - M

 

 

 

BT Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends

21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Namaste Venkat - M - Ji.

 

Your question poses certain other questions, which at best we can

avoid asking with our present knowledge of advaita. Still, just for

the sake of asking, let me go ahead.

 

Where is the mind where changes in the pictures, which you seem to

imply owe their existence to the 'external world', are seen? Outside

or inside? In either case, inside or outside of what?

 

Aren't we in fact 'dreaming' all the time? Can the contents of

that 'dream' exist independent of some support? Isn't our sense of

being awake, dreaming or having been asleep part of that 'dream'?

Aren't the changes in the so-called material objects then seen in the

mind?

 

Isn't it, therefore, better that we do away with this differentiation

between mind and matter unless it is of some practical value in our

so-called waking state or in understanding the fundamentals of

advaita and instead acknowledge that we are continuously witnessing a

scenario of unending changes? Will 'inside' or 'outside' then matter?

Will it not then be easier for us to appreciate the light that shines

the stage, the sets and performers on it?

 

All this because your question set me musing.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

_______________________

 

 

advaitin, S Venkatraman <svenkat52> asked

Benji:

> If the material objects out there are banished, how do we account

for the changes in the pictures in our mind?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 years later...

 

Wherever there is a perception, there is

consciousness, and I can detect no difference between the

consciousness and the perception, when I silently introspect upon any

perception.

 

Well I can. I AM and there is a perception. True, the perception is inherent in Consciousness and thus its appearance is dependent upon Consciousness, but Consciousness is not dependent upon the perception. Consciousness does not change, even though the appearance of change depends on Consciousness for its appearance.

 

Does someone have an experience different to what I described.

 

~thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...