Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2003 ||Srimathe Ramanujaaya Nama:|| I need a clarification on the Vamana Avatharam. The story goes like Vishnu in the form of young boy Vamana, came asking for three foot of land to Mahabali and with one foot he measured the entire bhumi, with one foot the Akasha and since there was no place for the third foot Mahabali gave his head. Here is my question: Mahabali was also in the Bhumi. How was he not covered in the first footstep when Vishnu was measuring the Bhumi with the first step Waiting for a nice explanation. Adiyen Aravamudha Dhaasan Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 6, 2003 respected sir i feel in a different way. the whole world ( including the sentient and nonsentient) can be bifurcated in to trivias as sthula suxma and karana) ( ref thaithreeya upanishad- boo - the material part - buva: the field of vayu - ( thoughts- vital) suva: the self here i would like to point out ( idham vishnur vicakramE thretha nidhathE padham ) this metephor had become the legend of vaman avatar regards parakaalan --- Srinivasan Balaji <adiyen03 wrote: > > ||Srimathe Ramanujaaya Nama:|| > > I need a clarification on the Vamana Avatharam. The > story goes like Vishnu in the form of young boy > Vamana, came asking for three foot of land to > Mahabali and with one foot he measured the entire > bhumi, with one foot the Akasha and since there was > no place for the third foot Mahabali gave his head. > > > > Here is my question: > > Mahabali was also in the Bhumi. How was he not > covered in the first footstep when Vishnu was > measuring the Bhumi with the first step > > Waiting for a nice explanation. > > Adiyen > > Aravamudha Dhaasan > > > > > > > > Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, > and more > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > ----------------------------- > - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - > To Post a message, send it to: > bhakti-list > Group Home: > bhakti-list > Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 6, 2003 sapremapranams in continuation of my previous post i have to raise this question to the scbolars of this group.sri bhumi piratti gave birth to narakasura during the incarnation of lord mhavishnu as varaha? how an asura can take a birth from a divine couple? adiyen begs to remain parakaalan --- Srinivasan Balaji <adiyen03 wrote: > > ||Srimathe Ramanujaaya Nama:|| ************************** < Quoted mail deleted..Please include mails only if they are directly relevant to the question---Moderator> ************************** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 6, 2003 Sri Krishnaya Namah! A clarification for this through my limited knowledge from reading puranas is as below: When He starts growing tall, he conquers the whole galaxy thus, when he is measuring the planet earth He keeps His divyapadam several thousand feets above the circumference of earth, taking care of His jeevas not to get destroyed under His divyapadam. He must have did this being not on earth but being on space, allowing Himself for better positioning. This is like a marble underneath our feet. Though He did like this, somehow His divyapadam touches the edge of the Himalayas, thus blood(Ganga) gushes out of His Padam and Lord Brahma collects the same in His Kamandalam, lest the planet earth will be immersed in it. This is how Ganga born and lived in Brahmaloka till she gets on the Jata of Lord Shiva. This same vigraham of Lord measures the Sky also, after wards, He must have got adequate posture and position to Push Bali into Pathala. This very avataram (also called as Trivikram) and the way He had positioned Himself is beyond the knowledge of jeevas, though this may be defined to some extent in puranas. He can take any shape & size, within mili seconds to do what He wanted to do and His deeds are beyond our knowledge. I will appreciate if any gyanis of this group elaborate and clearly explain this. Sukumar Sri Krishna Parabrahmane Namah! Srinivasan Balaji [sMTP:adiyen03] 06/04/2003 7:58 AM bhakti-list Vamana Avatharam ||Srimathe Ramanujaaya Nama:|| I need a clarification on the Vamana Avatharam. The story goes like Vishnu in the form of young boy Vamana, came asking for three foot of land to Mahabali and with one foot he measured the entire bhumi, with one foot the Akasha and since there was no place for the third foot Mahabali gave his head. Here is my question: Mahabali was also in the Bhumi. How was he not covered in the first footstep when Vishnu was measuring the Bhumi with the first step Waiting for a nice explanation. Adiyen Aravamudha Dhaasan Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more ----------------------------- - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list Group Home: bhakti-list Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ Your use of is subject to Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 7, 2003 ||Srimathe Ramanujaaya Nama: || Thanks for your explnation. Can you clarify to my further on the following: 1) Why did Vamana left out Mahabali in the first measure. 2) Assuming that he needed a foot of land, he didn't have to push Mahabali all the way into Paadhaala loka. He just had to push him at most 6 feet. why did he push him to paadhaala loka? by the way, what is paadhaala loka?? 3) Assuming that he left out Mahabali in his initial measure, Mahabali should have moved aside when vamana wanted to measure his third foot. what essentially vamana needs is a foot of land and does not have tocrush mahabali into paadhaala to get it. By moving aside, Mahabali cannot own that land as it had already been given to vamana. What is the reason Vamana resorted to acquiring land in this odd way? As Vamana is the incarnation of Vishnu, the source of all knowledge, and Mahabali was also not a dumb King there should be much deeper meaning to this episode which has to be researched. Pardon me if I was wrong Adiyen Aravamudha Dhaasan Lakshmi Narasimhan <nrusimhan wrote:Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha This is a good question that could be explained by the vyapaka shakthi of the ultimate. If one says he measure the entire earth with one foot, how could he do that? Earth is round. Thiruvadi is flat. So, how could he measure the entire earth? One might also ask, if he put his thiruvadi on the earth, wouldn't he have crushed everything on the earth? So, the logical explanation is that he did measure, not in terms of the sthula shareeram, but with his exceptional vyapakam. That is the ultimate's greatnes. His antharyamithvam is amazing. As we say antharyami i.e he exists everywhere, he could manifest the way he want that we cannot even comprehend given the restriction of our five senses. He could manifest himself as the air(or whatever) and measure the entire earth letting everyone alive, uncrushed, in shape etc(like the modern scientist who measure the distance between different spots on earth using some electromagnetic waves). So, we have to understand that the lord measured the entire earth, excepting mahabhali, with one foot. As he did this, his second foot was already seen measuring the rest of the universe. Again, this was not through the sthula shareeram(that the human brain comprehends) of the lord. The third one was ofcourse with the sthula shareera that had the intention of putting the bhali in the paadaala loka. I hope I haven't given any superficial explanation. In case you feel I did, my humble apologies. Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jamataram Munim Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan, Lakshmi Narasimhan bhakti-list, Srinivasan Balaji wrote: > > ||Srimathe Ramanujaaya Nama:|| ***************************** [ Rest of quoted mail deleted--Moderator] ***************************** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 9, 2003 Respected Members, According to both Sri Vishnu Puranam and Srimad Bhagavatham, there is no mention of Sri Vamana putting the 3 step over Mahabali's head. After the Lord, measured the whole universe, Mahabali stood speechless devoid of any further ego. By this process, Lord, earned the rightful kingdom back to his 'brother' Indira. It is interesting to note that one of Lord's name is 'Upendra' , brother of Indra. Regards KM Narayanan [ To clarify what Sri Narayanan has pointed out: Srimad Bhagavatam does have Bali begging Vamana perumAL to place his foot on his head as the third step This, so that the word he (Bali) gave may not go untrue. What is not mentioned is if perumAL went on to do it.----Moderator] - "Srinivasan Balaji" <adiyen03 Vamana Avataram ******************************************* [Rest of included mail deleted. Please aid us by not including mails unless absolutely necessary . If you do feel that this is the case, please try to include just enough to provide context.Thanks----Moderator] ******************************************* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 9, 2003 ||Srimathe Ramanujaaya Nama: || Thanks for the information. It is a news to me that Vishnu Puranam and Srimad Bhagavatham does not mention about Lord putting his thiruvadi on Mahabali. Then how did the other story propagate? Can someone clarify? Further I need one clarification about UPENDRA. If we look at Narayana Sooktham Lord is mentioned as INDRA ( " SaBrahma sa Shiva Sa Indra Sokshara Parama Swaraat"). Does this mean he is Brother of himself? I would highly appreciate if someone clarifies me on these. Adiyen Aravamudha Dhaasan "K.M.Narayanan" <sriramajayam wrote:Respected Members, According to both Sri Vishnu Puranam and Srimad Bhagavatham, there is no mention of Sri Vamana putting the 3 step over Mahabali's head. After the Lord, measured the whole universe, Mahabali stood speechless devoid of any further ego. By this process, Lord, earned the rightful kingdom back to his 'brother' Indira. It is interesting to note that one of Lord's name is 'Upendra' , brother of Indra. Regards KM Narayanan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 9, 2003 ||Srimathe Ramanujaaya Nama: || Sorry for not replying earlier. Meanwhile I got another mail saying that there is no proof in Vishnu Puranam or Bhagavatam that Lord put his Thiruvadi on Mahabali. If that is so, then our discussions may not be needed. However assuming that Lord put his feet on Mahabali's head, I still have the following doubts: 1) As per your argument these measures are not to be seen from a physical viewpoint but with a different perspective. If Lord's main reason for asking three foot measure is to show his might and curtail the ego of MAhabali, why did ne need three foot. Even in the first foot he could have said that I don't have enough land or space and embarassed him. what is the necessity for 3 foot 2) Bhumi or earth is infinitesimal compared with the universe and ofcourse Lord being the creator knows this equally well. Why did he have to waste the first foot on measuring the Bhumi - {MAhabali}. Instead he could have measured Universe - {Mahabali} in the first foot itself. Why did he need 3 foot of measure? 3) Why did Lord had to take the form of Vamana or Dwarf to beg yaachakam from Mahabali? Why didn't he come as a normal human being? 4) I still need clarification about Paadhaala loka. What is it and why was Mahabali pushed far down to Paadhaala loka? 5) In later avataras, like Rama and Krishna, the Lord gives enough chance to the opponent before attacking him. HAnuman was sent as an ambassador and later Angatha to see if Ravana can be convinced. Similar thing happens also with respect to Duryodhana where Krishna himself takes that role. IT is to be noted that Mahabali is not a difficult person to handle, as like Hiranya Kasibu, and he was a worshipper of vishnu. He could have been easily convinced to stop the Yagna or so and explained the situation if his deed was wrong. But why was it not done? Looking for convincing answers for my doubts. As Lakshmi Narasimhan pointed out Mahabali was not dumb. By the same token, Lord was not dumb enough to ask for 3 feet when he can perform the same feat in 1 or 2 feet. Adiyen Aravamudha Dhaasan Lakshmi Narasimhan <nrusimhan wrote:7AAF2FF2-2655-4795-AC4A- ---- ||Srimathe Ramanujaaya Nama: || Thanks for your explnation. Can you clarify to my further on the following: 1) Why did Vamana left out Mahabali in the first measure. This was intentional. The lord wanted to place his feet after mahabali surrendered to the lord seeing his greatness. 2) Assuming that he needed a foot of land, he didn't have to push Mahabali all the way into Paadhaala loka. He just had to push him at most 6 feet. why did he push him to paadhaala loka? by the way, what is paadhaala loka?? The lord did not want a foot of land. Bhali had mentioned to vamana that he could ask anything in this universe and bhali would be able to get it for him. When lord became Thrivikraman he exclaims to Bhali that, "I have used up 2 of my 3 feet measure, I don't have any other place now. But you promised me 3 feet. What shall I do now". Bhali realizing that the lord is all more powerful than him surrenders unto him and requests the lord to place the his holy feet on him(charanau charanam) 3) Assuming that he left out Mahabali in his initial measure, Mahabali should have moved aside when vamana wanted to measure his third foot. what essentially vamana needs is a foot of land and does not have tocrush mahabali into paadhaala to get it. By moving aside, Mahabali cannot own that land as it had already been given to vamana. What is the reason Vamana resorted to acquiring land in this odd way? This would have happened if bhali was dumb enough even after seeing the lord measuring the entire universe excepting him with just two feet:) I am sorry for that statement, but we should think from the appropriate personality's perspective. Even after seeing the power of lord why would bhali move aside and give the place for third foot? I did not mean anything against you. I just wanted to let you know of the way I thought. Please do not take anything wrong from my mail. By nature, I am humorous, but I lack expressiveness and hence may have sounded rude in this post. But I didn't intend to. So, please forgive me for any mistakes/misinformation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 9, 2003 Dear Sri Srinivasan, Sri Vamana was born to Aditi(mother of Devas) who also bore Indira. She prayed in her previous birth to Lord, that he be born to her as a son. Please refer Sri Vishnu Puranam or Sri Bhagavatha Maha puranam on additional details. Thanks Regards KM Narayanan Original Message: ----------------- Srinivasan Balaji adiyen03 Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:53:00 -0700 (PDT) bhakti-list Re: Vamana Avatharam ||Srimathe Ramanujaaya Nama: || Thanks for the information. It is a news to me that Vishnu Puranam and Srimad Bhagavatham does not mention about Lord putting his thiruvadi on Mahabali. Then how did the other story propagate? Can someone clarify? Further I need one clarification about UPENDRA. If we look at Narayana Sooktham Lord is mentioned as INDRA ( " SaBrahma sa Shiva Sa Indra Sokshara Parama Swaraat"). Does this mean he is Brother of himself? I would highly appreciate if someone clarifies me on these. Adiyen Aravamudha Dhaasan -- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
