Guest guest Report post Posted January 18, 2003 This writer is not sure about Guru mantra but one can share something about Kundalini The traditional viewpoint down the ages has been that there is a Kundalini which is supposed to reside coiled up below our body, lowermost in the center and this is expected to be awakened thru a series of practices of body/mind/breath manipulation. Once it stirs up, the Kundalini is supposed to travel thru the main nadis (or nerve passeges) and reach the psychic center at the top of our crown i.e. called Sahasra which is symbolised like a 1000 petel lotus and then the ultimate is supposed to take place i.e. Samadhi, nirvana etc. There are many versions on these aspects. Eventually, the writer will also share a diagonally opposite and more relevant aspect of the Kundalini. However, without intending to scare anyone, I would like to mention that dabbling in Kundalini is fraught with serious side-effects and long lasting problems if not done properly under a good guidance of a good,reliable practioner/Yoga teacher. Essentially, the person either should have had first hand experience and more importantly, he/she should not make this as a money-making proposition and term it like a 'course'.... The writer has personally come across persons who have somewhat lost their mental balance apparently due to the practice of attempting to get in touch with Kundalini. This does not mean this is out of bounds for ordinary mortals. There are some pre-requisites. 1. mentally resolve that this is what you want to do/ attempt, There cannot be two decisions, wavering etc. it has to be a firm single-point resolve 2. Get in touch with a good, reliable teacher. We will come to that later 3. Understand first by reading, then by practicing simultaneously and experiencing the principles of Ashtanga Yoga as outlined by the Great Patanjali who is none other than the resting couch of The Great Mahavishnu, Adiseshan. 4.Incidentally, the Yoga text of Patanjali does not talk or refer to Kundalini at all !!!! 5. Take a pre-primary- Kintergarten- high school-college attitude in your approach i.e. step by step. You cannot graduate without going thru primary school. 6. Mentally prepare yourself for a minimum rigour of 10 years. No joking. Please this is serious. This is not to discourage but to lay the facts. Kundalini involves inner, psychic power and this in short means your very life, breath. So if you are really, really serious then proceed. The results will be sweeter and sure in the long run but you may have to make do with earthly, mortal discomforts like sufferings. It is said that during the process of getting in touch with the Kundalini, one can witness certain powers which will first and foremost TEMPT you to try and use them. These are extraordinary powers say for instance the ability to understand talk of birds and animals. You cannot exhibit, try, make use of these for any purpose whatsoever. Even for a good purpose. Such is the nature of these powers of which only 0.001% perhaps could result in you during the practice that you will automatically go out to test and poof !!! all your efforts of 10 years will go waste !!!! 7. Emotional attachment to family, friends and other human forms has to be slowly given up. Ashtanga Yoga contains the seeds and principles of 'Vairagaya' . This has to be practiced with a firm resolve. Pranayama can help a lot in this. 8. Habits have to totally change and that too at a faster pace. You cannot give time. Needless to say smoking, partying, drinking, eating outside food, NOT DOING DAILY SANDHYAVANDANAM, fast life, late night outing, indulging in excessive sensual pursuits, high flying jobs etc. must change quickly. (no offense meant for all the habit/life styles mentioned in para 8 but these could prove to be obstacles in your progress and hence they are to be eschewed) 9. You must first understand how to come out of Kundalini once it is awakened. Before taking the ship take lessons in swimming. LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST, you may have to give up the Gods too !!! A tough proposition if at all. The reason behind this is with Kundalini etc. you are attempting to somewhat roughly merge yourself, atman etc. into the universal consciousness. Kundalini is the beginning and not an end. So at that point there is no point in thinking of 'me' and 'god' and ' that'. Shri Vaishnawism, Saivism, Buddhism etc. all come to an end. It is only one primal ubsistence in silence inside a void! The writer means every word he has written and has started this thread of discussion and hopes someone from these groups take up and enlighten all further. Nothing like back and forth exchange of factual communication and learning. Om tat Sat srinivasan venkatesan <sujivenkat Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:14pm Query Respected sir, I would like to know what is meant by guru mantra? Is it applicable to us{iyengar's}if so how could we follow it. I would also like to know about awakening the kundalini. dasan venkat. -- SrImatE rAmAnujAya namaH -- Your use of is subject to ========================================================================== Note from Moderator: I would like to request SrI Ramachandran to address the relation of the area he has outlined, to the veda-s. It is my understanding that ashTA'nga yoga is part of the bhakti mArga as an approach to realizing God. So I would have thought that God realization was the goal of yoga. Towards the end, the above write-up says that the practitioner of the path described "may have to give up God". There is also a suggestion of enjoyment of the self, merging with the self etc. Is there a relation here to kaivalyam? The write-up above seems very interesting and informative, and some background along the lines suggested will hlep the appreciation of this material even further. ============================================================================ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 18, 2003 ========================================================================== (Note from Moderator: I have requested SrI Ramachandran to include in his next posting, some information on the place of yoga in our tradition. I am hoping that it will include aspects such as yoga being one of the a'nga-s of bhakti, what our AcArya-s have said about yoga approach, etc. It is true that if prapattti is compared with other more difficult approaches, prapatti is considered the best of them all. This should not mean that we should not know that other methods exist, and should not prevent us from learning the basics of these other approaches. I believe the discussion on this topic should be useful if we approach it from the point of view of learning about this discipline, rather than taking positions before the basics are stated and understood. I again request SrI Ramachandran to give us the high level aspects of the place of yoga in the context of the veda-s, its role as an a'nga of the bhakti yoga, its role in the realization of Brahman, the AcAryas' position on this path, etc., so that we can get a proper understanding of the discipline). ================================================================= Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Dear All, First of all, kindly accept my apologies, in case, by any means I would offend anyone with this mail, though it is never my intent. I am so happy to see this e-mail on kundalini as it has given me an excellent opportunity to share one of the BEST kalakshepams I've heard from my swamy. The kalakshepam started with the subject on various popular shastras that are being condemened by great scholars in support of the Saranagathi Philosophy. Each shastra is examined one by one. Vyakarana Shastram: Essence - OM - the shabdham itself is God. Condemned, because, it separates the OM shabdham from the superior qualities of the almighty. By referring to Brahmasutras and to Shri Ramanujar's Shri Bhashyam one can easily prove that the paramatman is more than just the OM Shabdham. Tharka Shastram: Essence - God exists and we may believe him, the reason being anumana(presumption?). This world has been created. Hence, someone must be behind this creation and must be of supreme nature. So, it may be accepted that, God, the supreme personality exists. Condemned, because, it decreases the faith on the Vedas. Vedas are the basis of all our philosophies and if one does not believe the supreme personality based on the vedas, but based on the anumana then it is not correct. Yoga Shastram: Essence - You put effort to know him. Condemened, due to numerous reasons. An example was cited by Shri swamy. A rich man exercises everyday to maintain his body, i.e he needs the tools to maintain it. A poor man works a lot and hence his body is in shape due to the very reason that he is a worker by nature. The poor man needs no tools. Similarly, the tools like yogabyasam etc are for those who do not work:) i.e who donot service the ultimate after performing saranagathi. But for a person who has done saranagathi, he needs no special exercise or efforts. The kuntalini is in him and he is in the state of bliss all the time. The rich man has a power. If someone doesn't give what is due to him, he will send 10 people to scare and threaten and get the same. The poor man has a power that is superior to this rich man's power. When anything unjust is done to a poor man, if he heartily curses, it will bring 10 rich men to the roads in no time. If in the lowkika life we see this happening, then in the spiritual life, one can imagine what is the state of the one who has performed saranagathi to the ultimate("akinchanaha; ananyagadhihi; asaranyaha, tvath paadaravindhayugalam saranamaham prapadhye") when compared to the one who performs the yoga etc to bring out the kuntalini by his/her own efforts. The Yoga shastra is being condemed due to this path. I.E when one puts his/her own efforts to seek the almighty, he/she actually ends up enjoying the effort that was put in by him/her and hence on all probabilities falls for the self i.e the atman. This means, yoga shastra lets you enjoy your effort and before the time you seek the almighty, it puts you in a trap where you think YOU had the capability to find HIM and it was all YOUR efforts. This state is often described as "Kaivalyam" (the "Edu Nilam" in tamizh). It has been mentioned that going to hell is better than being trapped in Kaivalyam, the reason being, one will get back to this world from hell and will be given a chance to think of the almighty while those who are trapped in kaivalyam (it is one of the mokshams as mentioned by our Purvacharyars) are never freed until the almighty really wants to free them. And hence, Kaivalyam is probably the worst place one should not go to. Swamy concludes that, due to the various reasons cited above, those paths need not be adapted for those who have fallen under the protection of Shri Ramanujar's Saranagathi tattvam. He continues saying that there is nothing called "Your Effort" to seek him. You belong to him. Our hands do not try to know us. They do their duty and have maha-vishwasam with the atman, that it will take care of them. Similarly we must do our service to him and must have the maha-vishwasam on him that he will take care of us and the need for other shastras will eventually fade away. All credits go only to my swamy "Shri Chaturvedi Swamy" and anything that is incorrect is purely my mis-interpretation and my apologies for the same. Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jaamaataram Munim Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan, Lakshmi Narasimhan ---- bhakti-list Saturday, January 18, 2003 17:00:28 sv-rituals; bhakti-list Cc: sujivenkat; Oppiliappan moderator; Visu9 Kundalini etc. This writer is not sure about Guru mantra but one can share something about Kundalini The traditional viewpoint down the ages has been that there is a Kundalini which is supposed to reside coiled up below our body, lowermost in the center and this is expected to be awakened thru a series of practices of body/mind/breath manipulation. Once it stirs up, the Kundalini is supposed to travel thru the main nadis (or nerve passeges) and reach the psychic center at the top of our crown i.e. called Sahasra which is symbolised like a 1000 petel lotus and then the ultimate is supposed to take place i.e. Samadhi, nirvana etc. There are many versions on these aspects. Eventually, the writer will also share a diagonally opposite and more relevant aspect of the Kundalini. However, without intending to scare anyone, I would like to mention that dabbling in Kundalini is fraught with serious side-effects and long lasting problems if not done properly under a good guidance of a good,reliable practioner/Yoga teacher. Essentially, the person either should have had first hand experience and more importantly, he/she should not make this as a money-making proposition and term it like a 'course'.... The writer has personally come across persons who have somewhat lost their mental balance apparently due to the practice of attempting to get in touch with Kundalini. This does not mean this is out of bounds for ordinary mortals. There are some pre-requisites. 1. mentally resolve that this is what you want to do/ attempt, There cannot be two decisions, wavering etc. it has to be a firm single-point resolve 2. Get in touch with a good, reliable teacher. We will come to that later 3. Understand first by reading, then by practicing simultaneously and experiencing the principles of Ashtanga Yoga as outlined by the Great Patanjali who is none other than the resting couch of The Great Mahavishnu, Adiseshan. 4.Incidentally, the Yoga text of Patanjali does not talk or refer to Kundalini at all !!!! 5. Take a pre-primary- Kintergarten- high school-college attitude in your approach i.e. step by step. You cannot graduate without going thru primary school. 6. Mentally prepare yourself for a minimum rigour of 10 years. No joking. Please this is serious. This is not to discourage but to lay the facts. Kundalini involves inner, psychic power and this in short means your very life, breath. So if you are really, really serious then proceed. The results will be sweeter and sure in the long run but you may have to make do with earthly, mortal discomforts like sufferings. It is said that during the process of getting in touch with the Kundalini, one can witness certain powers which will first and foremost TEMPT you to try and use them. These are extraordinary powers say for instance the ability to understand talk of birds and animals. You cannot exhibit, try, make use of these for any purpose whatsoever. Even for a good purpose. Such is the nature of these powers of which only 0.001% perhaps could result in you during the practice that you will automatically go out to test and poof !!! all your efforts of 10 years will go waste !!!! 7. Emotional attachment to family, friends and other human forms has to be slowly given up. Ashtanga Yoga contains the seeds and principles of 'Vairagaya' . This has to be practiced with a firm resolve. Pranayama can help a lot in this. 8. Habits have to totally change and that too at a faster pace. You cannot give time. Needless to say smoking, partying, drinking, eating outside food, NOT DOING DAILY SANDHYAVANDANAM, fast life, late night outing, indulging in excessive sensual pursuits, high flying jobs etc. must change quickly. (no offense meant for all the habit/life styles mentioned in para 8 but these could prove to be obstacles in your progress and hence they are to be eschewed) 9. You must first understand how to come out of Kundalini once it is awakened. Before taking the ship take lessons in swimming. LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST, you may have to give up the Gods too !!! A tough proposition if at all. The reason behind this is with Kundalini etc. you are attempting to somewhat roughly merge yourself, atman etc. into the universal consciousness. Kundalini is the beginning and not an end. So at that point there is no point in thinking of 'me' and 'god' and ' that'. Shri Vaishnawism, Saivism, Buddhism etc. all come to an end. It is only one primal ubsistence in silence inside a void! The writer means every word he has written and has started this thread of discussion and hopes someone from these groups take up and enlighten all further. Nothing like back and forth exchange of factual communication and learning. Om tat Sat ----------------------------- - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list Group Home: bhakti-list Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ Your use of is subject to Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 18, 2003 Dear bhAgavathAs, AdiyEn was practising rAja yOgA (BrahmakumAri's), TM (Mahesh Yogi) and even was taught about kundalini. I was really impressed by "Thirumanthiram" of Thirumoolar". (I've written about myself quite elaborately in my introductory mail in Bhakti-list, during June2002) Once, I was thinking that it was enough to do meditation separately, which I perfected too, which brought clear mind etc., But NOW, after atleast about 15 years of practising those so called yOgAs, I can say that these are all only "HINDRANCES" to actual realisation of srIman nArAyaNA. Our SaraNAgathy procedure objects "Enjoying the pleasure brought out by AtmAnubhavam after SaraNAgathy". Although there are plenty of other systems, yogAs etc., which of course bring immediate benefits for "lowkIka" matters, We HAVE to follow what has been devised for us by our pUrvAchAryAs and has been practised by our ancestors for millennia. As visishtAdvaitins, We have been blessed with a COMPLETE system to be practised lifelong. We have to seek (or srIman NArAyaNA has to bless us with) a sadAchAryan to understand the subtle messages conveyed by our philosophy. ADiyEn is really proud to have one such AchAryan, who, within a very short time has changed my PREVIOUS indisciplines and is now preparing me to undergo "SaraNAgathy" very soon (01.02.03). (I'm mentioning about srI. Hari of Singapore who does not like to be praised etc., so I stop with this...) My humble suggestion to all visishtAdvaitins is 1) to approach an AchAryan with due respect and learn EVERY SINGLE THING from him. 2) Do trikAla sandyAvandanA which has everything in it. (japA, yogA, exercise, prANAyAmA etc). Sorry to say that "We have butter in Hand but looking for ghee" dAsan Mukundan singapore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 20, 2003 Dear BhagavatA-s, Sri Mukundan is aptly correct in summing up the views of visistAdvaitam on yogam. For starters, i wish to state that visistAdvaitam is not antithetical to yOgam. That yOgAbhyAsam is one of the foremost requirements of prapannA-s is certainly not denied. NathAmuni, our grand perceptor, has authored a book called "Yoga-Rahasyam", of which a recent crtically edited translation was published. Dr V Varadachari has summed up the views on Kundalini and Yogam in his book "Agamas and South Indian Vaishnavism". This is a MUST book for everyone interested in Sri Vaishnavism. The book is currently out of print. We do hope the publishers would bring this book out soon. Here is an excerpt from the book: (p 21.) ------------- Agamas recognise that, within the human body, there are six chakrA-s(or circles, or they may be plexuses or centres of the involuntary nervous system. They are described as focal points of power in the body of man which are only partially open), with the names mulAdhAra, svAdhisthAna, manipUra, anAhata, visuddhA and ajNA, placed one above the other, the first one being place below the navel, and the last one at the top of the head. All of them are said to be in the form of lotuses. There are several ducts(nAdi-s) inside the body among which an arterial duct is called susumnA and his held to be the most important. IdA is another important duct to its right, which pingatA runs to its left. The susumnA duct conncets the mulAdhara with the ajNA. The jivasakti lies coiled like a serpent in the mulAdhAra. The self has to adopt yOgic practices to arouse this sleeping sAkti which is called Kundalini and make it rise up through the duct of susumnA, pass through the 'circles', and ultimately reach the BrahmArandhara, the middle cavity at the top of susumnA. At this stage, the self would merge with the Supreme Sakti and have a direct experiece of bliss. In order to adopt this method, the self has to practise various postures (AsanA-s) and carry out breath-control(prAnAyAma). The idA and the pingala ducts play a prominent role in prAnAyama. This method of yogA as reccomended in the Agamas envisages a self which acquires the knowledge of realit to find the absolute in himself, since God is not absent from anywhere and is not distinct from sakti. The aspirant is therefore reqired to have experience within himself and, as such, this concept has appeal only to a limitd number who could adopt yOgic practices. ----------------- Sri Mukundan is also right when he says that sandhyAvadanam encompasses prAnAyamam. One should not try to learn yoga through video tapes, the serils that come on television etc, etc. For prappana-s, we have to learn these concepts under the feet of our sadAcharya-s. Interested bhakta-s might want to speak with HH Sri Rangapriya Mahadesikan of AshtAnga Yoga VignAna Mandiram in Jayanagar, Bangalore. Sri Rangapriya Swami is one of the foremost yati-s of Sri Vaishnavism. He is an expert in yogAbhyAsam. You can contact him at (80)-6603656 Regards, Malolan Cadambi ============================================================================ Note from Moderator: While this posting is useful information for readers especially in the light of SrI Ramachandran's first write-up, your statement that "yOgAbhyAsam is one of the foremost requirements of prapannA-s" is not clear to me. I had been under the impression that yoga was a requirement of the bhakti yoga, and not an a'nga of the prapatti mArga. Please clarify your comment. =========================================================================== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 20, 2003 - "Lakshmi Narasimhan" <nrusimhan > Vyakarana Shastram: Essence - OM - the shabdham itself is God. Condemned, No, they are not condemned. Vyakaranam, Niruktam, jyOtisham, et all are six angA-s of the vedam. One cannot condemn all these. Effectively, by condemning all these, you question the very authority of the angA-s of the veda. That would make you non-different from a nAstikA. Please do not write out the pranavam in open. It should not be done so. The AdhyAyam(or learning) of the vedA-agnAm is very important to vedic study. This cannot be avoided. This underscores to need to undergo traditional kalakshEpam under the feet of a sadAcharya. > those who are trapped in kaivalyam (it is one of the mokshams as mentioned > by our Purvacharyars) are never freed until the almighty really wants to > free them. And hence, Kaivalyam is probably the worst place one should not > go to. What you have stated is only the thennAcharya(thenkalai) viewpoint on kaivalyam. This discussion on this topic is beyond the scope of this list. Needless to say, what you have stated about kaivalyam cannot be accepted by all. I would request you to re-check with your achAryan about what you stated in your previous mail. Regards, Malolan Cadambi Austin,TX =========================================================================== Note from Moderator: On the comment of SrI Malolan Cadambi on kaivalyam, I would like to suggest that ideas of the different kalai's can be shared, as long as it is clarified that this is the position of the particular kalai. If the original writer does not know that a particular position is adopted by only one of the kalai's, the others can point out the fact in a spirit of sharing of information and knowledge. I would prefer not to cut out all reference to any kalai-oriented position, since then we will not learn. The intent should be not to force only one position as the "correct" one.). =========================================================================== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 20, 2003 =========================================================================== Dear SrI Lakshmi Narasimhan: It is precisely this inflexible and insensitive attitude that you are displaying in your response to the kaivalyam issue that is unproductive. I was willing to give the benfit of doubt to you in your first message, thinking that you did not know that you were only representing the view of ten-kalai sampradAyam on the issue of kaivalyam. Now you are confirming that not only you were aware of it, but you are also insisting that any other view, such as the view of followers of svAmi deSikan, are not rAmAnuja's views. I am not interested in promoting polemics in the discussion. Respect for the different viewpoints is an absolute necessity in the postings. I hope that expect that you and others who post on the list learn to recognize tht there are other viewpoints of rAmAnuja sampradAyaam that should be respected. Not being aware of things is one thing, but insisting that their viewpoint is the only position of rAmAnuja, only your kalai existed in rAmAnuja's time, etc., are just inviting a fight, and this has no place in the bhakti list. ============================================================================= Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Dear Shri Swami and Shri Vaishnavas, Accept my apologies in case I would offend anyone by this mail, as it is not my intent. >Effectively, by condemning all these, you question the very authority of the angA-s of the veda. That would make >you non-different from a nAstikA. Please do not write out the pranavam in open. It should not be done so. Your statement "One cannot condemn all these" may be acceptable from a different view-point. If one takes ONLY the path of Vyakaranam, then that is what is condemned. Similarly if one takes ONLY the yoga margam to attain moksham, then that is condemned. Again, all of these shastras are condemned for PRAPANNAS and that is why I had clearly mentioned that "for those who have fallen under the protection of Saranagathy Tattvam". It was not an open comment for "all". I humbly request you to kindly read my mail in detail again. And, the Veda Angas may be questioned any time as they are not the path for moksham. They are additional sciences that one may learn. As you had mentioned, "AdhyAyam" i.e learning is not condemned. AGAIN, learning is different from following. If one follows the Jyothisha Shastra or Yoga Shastra or Vyakarana Shastra instead of just learning the same, then it is indeed condemned. As the moderator pointed out, there is nothing wrong in knowing the basic tenets of the same and learning the same. But, it should not be followed to attain moksha, was the point. >What you have stated is only the thennAcharya(thenkalai) viewpoint on >kaivalyam. This discussion on this topic is beyond the scope of this list. >Needless to say, what you have stated about kaivalyam cannot be accepted by >all. >I would request you to re-check with your achAryan about what you stated in >your previous mail. Regarding what I stated on Kaivalyam, it was purely the view point of Shri Ramanujar and not of any specific "kalai" for there were no different kalais except "Thenkalai Sampradayam"at the time of Shri Ramanujar. And hence there was no necessity for me to explicitly mention "Thennacharya Sampradayam". I ve verified again that Kaivalyam aka Edu Nilam is indeed the athmanubhavam and is the worst place to go according to Shri Ramanuja Sampradayam. Please feel free to post other sampradayams' view point so that everyone would be happy to learn different view points. Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Ramanujam Munim Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan, Lakshmi Narasimhan ---- bhakti-list Monday, January 20, 2003 09:45:01 AM bhakti-list Cc: nrusimhan Re: Kundalini etc. - "Lakshmi Narasimhan" <nrusimhan > Vyakarana Shastram: Essence - OM - the shabdham itself is God. Condemned, No, they are not condemned. Vyakaranam, Niruktam, jyOtisham, et all are six angA-s of the vedam. One cannot condemn all these. Effectively, by condemning all these, you question the very authority of the angA-s of the veda. That would make you non-different from a nAstikA. Please do not write out the pranavam in open. It should not be done so. The AdhyAyam(or learning) of the vedA-agnAm is very important to vedic study. This cannot be avoided. This underscores to need to undergo traditional kalakshEpam under the feet of a sadAcharya. > those who are trapped in kaivalyam (it is one of the mokshams as mentioned > by our Purvacharyars) are never freed until the almighty really wants to > free them. And hence, Kaivalyam is probably the worst place one should not > go to. What you have stated is only the thennAcharya(thenkalai) viewpoint on kaivalyam. This discussion on this topic is beyond the scope of this list. Needless to say, what you have stated about kaivalyam cannot be accepted by all. I would request you to re-check with your achAryan about what you stated in your previous mail. Regards, Malolan Cadambi Austin,TX ----------------------------- - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list Group Home: bhakti-list Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ Your use of is subject to Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 20, 2003 Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha, Nathamunigal, Thirukkacchi Nambigal(used to converse with Shri Kanchi Devarajan in his yoga dasai), Shri Ramanujar and all our Purvacharyas were well versed in Yoga Shastram. The very reason why Shri Ramanujar devised the concept of wearing the 12 thirumans in the different places of the body was due to the Yoga Shastra. If a veteran in Yoga Shastra notices the 12 places where the Thiruman is worn by a Vaishnavite, he/she would immediately recognize that they have placed the Thiruman covering ALL the chakras and covered the "Ida"(left), "Vala"(right) nadis corresponding to those chakras. A note on Pranayamam. More importance have to be given in thinking about the lord. And the pranayamam as such just needs to be performed as taught by an Acharyan. This is where the problem arises. Some focus more on doing the pranayamam right and lose the actual essence of thinking about god. This has been happening since the days of Alwars. Nammazhwar has sung a line in Thiruvaimozhi after feeling bad about the practice of trying to do the pranayamam properly rather than thinking about the almighty - "Peyarinaiye pundhiyal sindhiyadhu odhi uruvennum andhiyalam payanangen?" If one just counts the number of times the Gayathri and does the sandhyavandhanam(chanting of gayathri manthram is done simultaneous to the pranayamam) without thinking the very name of the almighty, what is the use of the same? is what Alwars wonders! Again, I don't intend to say that, doing pranayamam is wrong. Its just an additional information that even if you do not do it properly it does not really matter if you actually think about bhagavan at that time - as that time is more allocated to think about the almighty than the actual prana-yamam or gayathri ucchadanam. Sarva aparadhaan kshmasva Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jaamaatharam Munim Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan, Lakshmi Narasimhan ----------------------------- - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list Group Home: bhakti-list Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ Your use of is subject to Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 20, 2003 >Regarding what I stated on Kaivalyam, it was purely the view point of Shri >Ramanujar and not of any specific "kalai" ... I >ve verified again that Kaivalyam aka Edu Nilam is indeed the athmanubhavam >and is the worst place to go according to Shri Ramanuja Sampradayam. I find this highly interesting. May I ask precisely where in Bhagavad Ramanuja's writings I might find these views on AtmAnubhava expressed? From my own reading of his works (in the original), I have formed precisely the opposite impression, namely that Ramanuja views AtmAnubhava as a prerequisite for realizing God (e.g. in Vedarthasamgraha: AtmasvarUpAvAptir bhagavatprAptigarbhA). Ramanuja Dasan, MG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 20, 2003 > Your statement "One cannot condemn all these" may be acceptable from a > different view-point. If one takes ONLY the path of Vyakaranam, then that is > what is condemned. Similarly if one takes ONLY the yoga margam to attain > moksham, then that is condemned. The Angam-s are not mArgam-s. They cannot be confused for the other. > Ramanujar and not of any specific "kalai" for there were no different kalais > except "Thenkalai Sampradayam"at the time of Shri Ramanujar. And hence there > was no necessity for me to explicitly mention "Thennacharya Sampradayam". I I would avoid commenting on that issue, since it is not in the charter of the list. I would also not wish to conduct discussion off-list in this matter. But, for an independent view, you might wish to read Dr.Patricia Mummume's book "Sri Vaishnava Theological Dispute". Regards, Malolan Cadambi Austin,TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
