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This writer is not sure about Guru mantra but one can share something about

Kundalini

 

The traditional viewpoint down the ages has been that there is a Kundalini

which is supposed to reside coiled up below our body, lowermost in the

center and this is expected to be awakened thru a series of practices of

body/mind/breath manipulation.

 

Once it stirs up, the Kundalini is supposed to travel thru the main nadis

(or nerve passeges) and reach the psychic center at the top of our crown

i.e. called Sahasra which is symbolised like a 1000 petel lotus and then

the ultimate is supposed to take place i.e. Samadhi, nirvana etc.

 

There are many versions on these aspects. Eventually, the writer will

also share a diagonally opposite and more relevant aspect of the Kundalini.

 

However, without intending to scare anyone, I would like to mention that

dabbling in Kundalini is fraught with serious side-effects and long lasting

problems if not done properly under a good guidance of a good,reliable

practioner/Yoga teacher. Essentially, the person either should have had

first hand experience and more importantly, he/she should not make this as

a money-making proposition and term it like a 'course'....

 

The writer has personally come across persons who have somewhat lost their

mental balance apparently due to the practice of attempting to get in touch

with Kundalini.

 

This does not mean this is out of bounds for ordinary mortals. There are

some pre-requisites.

 

1. mentally resolve that this is what you want to do/ attempt, There cannot

be two decisions, wavering etc. it has to be a firm single-point resolve

 

2. Get in touch with a good, reliable teacher. We will come to that later

 

3. Understand first by reading, then by practicing simultaneously and

experiencing the principles of Ashtanga Yoga as outlined by the Great

Patanjali who is none other than the resting couch of The Great Mahavishnu,

Adiseshan.

 

4.Incidentally, the Yoga text of Patanjali does not talk or refer to

Kundalini at all !!!!

 

5. Take a pre-primary- Kintergarten- high school-college attitude in your

approach i.e. step by step. You cannot graduate without going thru primary

school.

 

6. Mentally prepare yourself for a minimum rigour of 10 years. No joking.

Please this is serious. This is not to discourage but to lay the facts.

Kundalini involves inner, psychic power and this in short means your very

life, breath.

 

So if you are really, really serious then proceed. The results will be

sweeter and sure in the long run but you may have to make do with earthly,

mortal discomforts like sufferings.

 

It is said that during the process of getting in touch with the Kundalini,

one can witness certain powers which will first and foremost TEMPT you to

try and use them. These are extraordinary powers say for instance the

ability to understand talk of birds and animals. You cannot exhibit, try,

make use of these for any purpose whatsoever. Even for a good purpose.

Such is the nature of these powers of which only 0.001% perhaps could

result in you during the practice that you will automatically go out to

test and poof !!! all your efforts of 10 years will go waste !!!!

 

7. Emotional attachment to family, friends and other human forms has to be

slowly given up. Ashtanga Yoga contains the seeds and principles of

'Vairagaya' . This has to be practiced with a firm resolve. Pranayama can

help a lot in this.

 

8. Habits have to totally change and that too at a faster pace. You cannot

give time. Needless to say smoking, partying, drinking, eating outside

food, NOT DOING DAILY SANDHYAVANDANAM, fast life, late night outing,

indulging in excessive sensual pursuits, high flying jobs etc. must change

quickly.

 

(no offense meant for all the habit/life styles mentioned in para 8 but

these could prove to be obstacles in

your progress and hence they are to be eschewed)

 

9. You must first understand how to come out of Kundalini once it is

awakened. Before taking the ship take lessons in swimming.

 

LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST, you may have to give up the Gods too !!! A tough

proposition if at all. The reason behind this is with Kundalini etc. you

are attempting to somewhat roughly merge yourself, atman etc. into the

universal consciousness. Kundalini is the beginning and not an end. So at

that point there is no point in thinking of 'me' and 'god' and ' that'.

Shri Vaishnawism, Saivism, Buddhism etc. all come to an end. It is only

one primal ubsistence in silence inside a void!

 

The writer means every word he has written and has started this thread of

discussion and hopes someone from these groups take up and enlighten all

further. Nothing like back and forth exchange of factual communication and

learning.

 

Om tat Sat

 

 

 

 

srinivasan venkatesan <sujivenkat

Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:14pm

Query

 

 

Respected sir,

 

I would like to know what is meant by guru mantra? Is it applicable

to us{iyengar's}if so how could we follow it. I would also like to

know about awakening the kundalini.

 

dasan

 

venkat.

 

-- SrImatE rAmAnujAya namaH --

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

 

==========================================================================

Note from Moderator: I would like to request SrI Ramachandran to address the

relation of the area he has outlined, to the veda-s. It is my understanding

that ashTA'nga yoga is part of the bhakti mArga as an approach to realizing God.

So I would have thought that God realization was the goal of yoga. Towards the

end, the above write-up says that the practitioner of the path described "may

have to give up God". There is also a suggestion of enjoyment of the self,

merging with the self etc. Is there a relation here to kaivalyam? The write-up

above seems very interesting and informative, and some background along the

lines suggested will hlep the appreciation of this material even further.

============================================================================

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(Note from Moderator: I have requested SrI Ramachandran to include in his next

posting, some information on the place of yoga in our tradition. I am hoping

that it will include aspects such as yoga being one of the a'nga-s of bhakti,

what our AcArya-s have said about yoga approach, etc. It is true that if

prapattti is compared with other more difficult approaches, prapatti is

considered the best of them all. This should not mean that we should not know

that other methods exist, and should not prevent us from learning the basics of

these other approaches. I believe the discussion on this topic should be useful

if we approach it from the point of view of learning about this discipline,

rather than taking positions before the basics are stated and understood. I

again request SrI Ramachandran to give us the high level aspects of the place of

yoga in the context of the veda-s, its role as an a'nga of the bhakti yoga, its

role in the realization of Brahman, the AcAryas' position on this path, etc., so

that we can get a proper understanding of the discipline).

=================================================================

 

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

 

Dear All,

First of all, kindly accept my apologies, in case, by any means I would

offend anyone with this mail, though it is never my intent.

 

I am so happy to see this e-mail on kundalini as it has given me an

excellent opportunity to share one of the BEST kalakshepams I've heard from

my swamy.

 

The kalakshepam started with the subject on various popular shastras that

are being condemened by great scholars in support of the Saranagathi

Philosophy. Each shastra is examined one by one.

 

Vyakarana Shastram: Essence - OM - the shabdham itself is God. Condemned,

because, it separates the OM shabdham from the superior qualities of the

almighty. By referring to Brahmasutras and to Shri Ramanujar's Shri Bhashyam

one can easily prove that the paramatman is more than just the OM Shabdham.

 

Tharka Shastram: Essence - God exists and we may believe him, the reason

being anumana(presumption?). This world has been created. Hence, someone

must be behind this creation and must be of supreme nature. So, it may be

accepted that, God, the supreme personality exists. Condemned, because, it

decreases the faith on the Vedas. Vedas are the basis of all our

philosophies and if one does not believe the supreme personality based on

the vedas, but based on the anumana then it is not correct.

 

Yoga Shastram: Essence - You put effort to know him. Condemened, due to

numerous reasons. An example was cited by Shri swamy. A rich man exercises

everyday to maintain his body, i.e he needs the tools to maintain it. A poor

man works a lot and hence his body is in shape due to the very reason that

he is a worker by nature. The poor man needs no tools. Similarly, the tools

like yogabyasam etc are for those who do not work:) i.e who donot service

the ultimate after performing saranagathi. But for a person who has done

saranagathi, he needs no special exercise or efforts. The kuntalini is in

him and he is in the state of bliss all the time.

 

The rich man has a power. If someone doesn't give what is due to him, he

will send 10 people to scare and threaten and get the same. The poor man has

a power that is superior to this rich man's power. When anything unjust is

done to a poor man, if he heartily curses, it will bring 10 rich men to the

roads in no time. If in the lowkika life we see this happening, then in the

spiritual life, one can imagine what is the state of the one who has

performed saranagathi to the ultimate("akinchanaha; ananyagadhihi;

asaranyaha, tvath paadaravindhayugalam saranamaham prapadhye") when compared

to the one who performs the yoga etc to bring out the kuntalini by his/her

own efforts. The Yoga shastra is being condemed due to this path. I.E when

one puts his/her own efforts to seek the almighty, he/she actually ends up

enjoying the effort that was put in by him/her and hence on all

probabilities falls for the self i.e the atman. This means, yoga shastra

lets you enjoy your effort and before the time you seek the almighty, it

puts you in a trap where you think YOU had the capability to find HIM and it

was all YOUR efforts. This state is often described as "Kaivalyam" (the "Edu

Nilam" in tamizh). It has been mentioned that going to hell is better than

being trapped in Kaivalyam, the reason being, one will get back to this

world from hell and will be given a chance to think of the almighty while

those who are trapped in kaivalyam (it is one of the mokshams as mentioned

by our Purvacharyars) are never freed until the almighty really wants to

free them. And hence, Kaivalyam is probably the worst place one should not

go to.

 

Swamy concludes that, due to the various reasons cited above, those paths

need not be adapted for those who have fallen under the protection of Shri

Ramanujar's Saranagathi tattvam. He continues saying that there is nothing

called "Your Effort" to seek him. You belong to him. Our hands do not try to

know us. They do their duty and have maha-vishwasam with the atman, that it

will take care of them. Similarly we must do our service to him and must

have the maha-vishwasam on him that he will take care of us and the need for

other shastras will eventually fade away.

 

 

All credits go only to my swamy "Shri Chaturvedi Swamy" and anything that is

incorrect is purely my mis-interpretation and my apologies for the same.

 

Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jaamaataram Munim

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,

Lakshmi Narasimhan

 

 

----

 

bhakti-list

Saturday, January 18, 2003 17:00:28

sv-rituals; bhakti-list

Cc: sujivenkat; Oppiliappan moderator; Visu9

Kundalini etc.

 

This writer is not sure about Guru mantra but one can share something about

Kundalini

 

The traditional viewpoint down the ages has been that there is a Kundalini

which is supposed to reside coiled up below our body, lowermost in the

center and this is expected to be awakened thru a series of practices of

body/mind/breath manipulation.

 

Once it stirs up, the Kundalini is supposed to travel thru the main nadis

(or nerve passeges) and reach the psychic center at the top of our crown

i.e. called Sahasra which is symbolised like a 1000 petel lotus and then

the ultimate is supposed to take place i.e. Samadhi, nirvana etc.

 

There are many versions on these aspects. Eventually, the writer will

also share a diagonally opposite and more relevant aspect of the Kundalini.

 

However, without intending to scare anyone, I would like to mention that

dabbling in Kundalini is fraught with serious side-effects and long lasting

problems if not done properly under a good guidance of a good,reliable

practioner/Yoga teacher. Essentially, the person either should have had

first hand experience and more importantly, he/she should not make this as

a money-making proposition and term it like a 'course'....

 

The writer has personally come across persons who have somewhat lost their

mental balance apparently due to the practice of attempting to get in touch

with Kundalini.

 

This does not mean this is out of bounds for ordinary mortals. There are

some pre-requisites.

 

1. mentally resolve that this is what you want to do/ attempt, There cannot

be two decisions, wavering etc. it has to be a firm single-point resolve

 

2. Get in touch with a good, reliable teacher. We will come to that later

 

3. Understand first by reading, then by practicing simultaneously and

experiencing the principles of Ashtanga Yoga as outlined by the Great

Patanjali who is none other than the resting couch of The Great Mahavishnu,

Adiseshan.

 

4.Incidentally, the Yoga text of Patanjali does not talk or refer to

Kundalini at all !!!!

 

5. Take a pre-primary- Kintergarten- high school-college attitude in your

approach i.e. step by step. You cannot graduate without going thru primary

school.

 

6. Mentally prepare yourself for a minimum rigour of 10 years. No joking.

Please this is serious. This is not to discourage but to lay the facts.

Kundalini involves inner, psychic power and this in short means your very

life, breath.

 

So if you are really, really serious then proceed. The results will be

sweeter and sure in the long run but you may have to make do with earthly,

mortal discomforts like sufferings.

 

It is said that during the process of getting in touch with the Kundalini,

one can witness certain powers which will first and foremost TEMPT you to

try and use them. These are extraordinary powers say for instance the

ability to understand talk of birds and animals. You cannot exhibit, try,

make use of these for any purpose whatsoever. Even for a good purpose.

Such is the nature of these powers of which only 0.001% perhaps could

result in you during the practice that you will automatically go out to

test and poof !!! all your efforts of 10 years will go waste !!!!

 

7. Emotional attachment to family, friends and other human forms has to be

slowly given up. Ashtanga Yoga contains the seeds and principles of

'Vairagaya' . This has to be practiced with a firm resolve. Pranayama can

help a lot in this.

 

8. Habits have to totally change and that too at a faster pace. You cannot

give time. Needless to say smoking, partying, drinking, eating outside

food, NOT DOING DAILY SANDHYAVANDANAM, fast life, late night outing,

indulging in excessive sensual pursuits, high flying jobs etc. must change

quickly.

 

(no offense meant for all the habit/life styles mentioned in para 8 but

these could prove to be obstacles in

your progress and hence they are to be eschewed)

 

9. You must first understand how to come out of Kundalini once it is

awakened. Before taking the ship take lessons in swimming.

 

LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST, you may have to give up the Gods too !!! A tough

proposition if at all. The reason behind this is with Kundalini etc. you

are attempting to somewhat roughly merge yourself, atman etc. into the

universal consciousness. Kundalini is the beginning and not an end. So at

that point there is no point in thinking of 'me' and 'god' and ' that'.

Shri Vaishnawism, Saivism, Buddhism etc. all come to an end. It is only

one primal ubsistence in silence inside a void!

 

The writer means every word he has written and has started this thread of

discussion and hopes someone from these groups take up and enlighten all

further. Nothing like back and forth exchange of factual communication and

learning.

 

Om tat Sat

 

-----------------------------

- SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list

Group Home: bhakti-list

Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/

 

 

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Dear bhAgavathAs,

 

AdiyEn was practising rAja yOgA (BrahmakumAri's), TM (Mahesh Yogi)

and even was taught about kundalini. I was really impressed

by "Thirumanthiram" of Thirumoolar". (I've written about myself quite

elaborately in my introductory mail in Bhakti-list, during June2002)

 

Once, I was thinking that it was enough to do meditation separately,

which I perfected too, which brought clear mind etc.,

 

But NOW, after atleast about 15 years of practising those so called

yOgAs, I can say that these are all only "HINDRANCES" to actual

realisation of srIman nArAyaNA. Our SaraNAgathy procedure

objects "Enjoying the pleasure brought out by AtmAnubhavam after

SaraNAgathy". Although there are plenty of other systems, yogAs etc.,

which of course bring immediate benefits for "lowkIka" matters, We

HAVE to follow what has been devised for us by our pUrvAchAryAs and

has been practised by our ancestors for millennia.

 

As visishtAdvaitins, We have been blessed with a COMPLETE system to

be practised lifelong.

 

We have to seek (or srIman NArAyaNA has to bless us with) a

sadAchAryan to understand the subtle messages conveyed by our

philosophy.

 

ADiyEn is really proud to have one such AchAryan, who, within a very

short time has changed my PREVIOUS indisciplines and is now preparing

me to undergo "SaraNAgathy" very soon (01.02.03). (I'm mentioning

about srI. Hari of Singapore who does not like to be praised etc., so

I stop with this...)

 

My humble suggestion to all visishtAdvaitins is 1) to approach an

AchAryan with due respect and learn EVERY SINGLE THING from him. 2)

Do trikAla sandyAvandanA which has everything in it. (japA, yogA,

exercise, prANAyAmA etc).

 

Sorry to say that "We have butter in Hand but looking for ghee"

 

dAsan

Mukundan

singapore.

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Dear BhagavatA-s,

 

Sri Mukundan is aptly correct in summing up the views of visistAdvaitam on

yogam. For starters, i wish to state that visistAdvaitam is not antithetical

to yOgam. That yOgAbhyAsam is one of the foremost requirements of prapannA-s

is certainly not denied.

 

NathAmuni, our grand perceptor, has authored a book called "Yoga-Rahasyam",

of which a recent crtically edited translation was published.

 

Dr V Varadachari has summed up the views on Kundalini and Yogam in his book

"Agamas and South Indian Vaishnavism". This is a MUST book for everyone

interested in Sri Vaishnavism. The book is currently out of print. We do

hope the publishers would bring this book out soon.

 

Here is an excerpt from the book:

(p 21.)

-------------

Agamas recognise that, within the human body, there are six chakrA-s(or

circles, or they may be plexuses or centres of the involuntary nervous

system. They are described as focal points of power in the body of man which

are only partially open), with the names mulAdhAra, svAdhisthAna, manipUra,

anAhata, visuddhA and ajNA, placed one above the other, the first one being

place below the navel, and the last one at the top of the head. All of them

are said to be in the form of lotuses. There are several ducts(nAdi-s)

inside the body among which an arterial duct is called susumnA and his held

to be the most important. IdA is another important duct to its right, which

pingatA runs to its left. The susumnA duct conncets the mulAdhara with the

ajNA. The jivasakti lies coiled like a serpent in the mulAdhAra.

 

The self has to adopt yOgic practices to arouse this sleeping sAkti which is

called Kundalini and make it rise up through the duct of susumnA, pass

through the 'circles', and ultimately reach the BrahmArandhara, the middle

cavity at the top of susumnA. At this stage, the self would merge with the

Supreme Sakti and have a direct experiece of bliss. In order to adopt this

method, the self has to practise various postures (AsanA-s) and carry out

breath-control(prAnAyAma). The idA and the pingala ducts play a prominent

role in prAnAyama. This method of yogA as reccomended in the Agamas

envisages a self which acquires the knowledge of realit to find the absolute

in himself, since God is not absent from anywhere and is not distinct from

sakti. The aspirant is therefore reqired to have experience within himself

and, as such, this concept has appeal only to a limitd number who could

adopt yOgic practices.

-----------------

 

Sri Mukundan is also right when he says that sandhyAvadanam encompasses

prAnAyamam. One should not try to learn yoga through video tapes, the serils

that come on television etc, etc. For prappana-s, we have to learn these

concepts under the feet of our sadAcharya-s.

 

Interested bhakta-s might want to speak with HH Sri Rangapriya Mahadesikan

of AshtAnga Yoga VignAna Mandiram in Jayanagar, Bangalore. Sri Rangapriya

Swami is one of the foremost yati-s of Sri Vaishnavism. He is an expert in

yogAbhyAsam. You can contact him at (80)-6603656

 

Regards,

 

Malolan Cadambi

 

============================================================================

Note from Moderator: While this posting is useful information for readers

especially in the light of SrI Ramachandran's first write-up, your statement

that "yOgAbhyAsam is one of the foremost requirements of prapannA-s" is not

clear to me. I had been under the impression that yoga was a requirement of the

bhakti yoga, and not an a'nga of the prapatti mArga. Please clarify your

comment.

===========================================================================

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-

"Lakshmi Narasimhan" <nrusimhan

> Vyakarana Shastram: Essence - OM - the shabdham itself is God. Condemned,

 

No, they are not condemned. Vyakaranam, Niruktam, jyOtisham, et all are six

angA-s of the vedam. One cannot condemn all these. Effectively, by

condemning all these, you question the very authority of the angA-s of the

veda. That would make you non-different from a nAstikA. Please do not write

out the pranavam in open. It should not be done so.

 

The AdhyAyam(or learning) of the vedA-agnAm is very important to vedic

study. This cannot be avoided. This underscores to need to undergo

traditional kalakshEpam under the feet of a sadAcharya.

> those who are trapped in kaivalyam (it is one of the mokshams as mentioned

> by our Purvacharyars) are never freed until the almighty really wants to

> free them. And hence, Kaivalyam is probably the worst place one should not

> go to.

 

What you have stated is only the thennAcharya(thenkalai) viewpoint on

kaivalyam. This discussion on this topic is beyond the scope of this list.

Needless to say, what you have stated about kaivalyam cannot be accepted by

all.

 

I would request you to re-check with your achAryan about what you stated in

your previous mail.

 

Regards,

 

Malolan Cadambi

Austin,TX

 

===========================================================================

Note from Moderator: On the comment of SrI Malolan Cadambi on kaivalyam, I

would like to suggest that ideas of the different kalai's can be shared, as long

as it is clarified that this is the position of the particular kalai. If the

original writer does not know that a particular position is adopted by only one

of the kalai's, the others can point out the fact in a spirit of sharing of

information and knowledge. I would prefer not to cut out all reference to any

kalai-oriented position, since then we will not learn. The intent should be not

to force only one position as the "correct" one.).

===========================================================================

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===========================================================================

Dear SrI Lakshmi Narasimhan:

 

It is precisely this inflexible and insensitive attitude that you are displaying

in your response to the kaivalyam issue that is unproductive. I was willing to

give the benfit of doubt to you in your first message, thinking that you did not

know that you were only representing the view of ten-kalai sampradAyam on the

issue of kaivalyam. Now you are confirming that not only you were aware of it,

but you are also insisting that any other view, such as the view of followers of

svAmi deSikan, are not rAmAnuja's views. I am not interested in promoting

polemics in the discussion. Respect for the different viewpoints is an absolute

necessity in the postings. I hope that expect that you and others who post on

the list learn to recognize tht there are other viewpoints of rAmAnuja

sampradAyaam that should be respected. Not being aware of things is one thing,

but insisting that their viewpoint is the only position of rAmAnuja, only your

kalai existed in rAmAnuja's time, etc., are just inviting a fight, and this has

no place in the bhakti list.

=============================================================================

 

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

 

Dear Shri Swami and Shri Vaishnavas,

 

Accept my apologies in case I would offend anyone by this mail, as it is not

my intent.

>Effectively, by condemning all these, you question the very authority of

the angA-s of the veda. That would make >you non-different from a nAstikA.

Please do not write out the pranavam in open. It should not be done so.

 

Your statement "One cannot condemn all these" may be acceptable from a

different view-point. If one takes ONLY the path of Vyakaranam, then that is

what is condemned. Similarly if one takes ONLY the yoga margam to attain

moksham, then that is condemned. Again, all of these shastras are condemned

for PRAPANNAS and that is why I had clearly mentioned that "for those who

have fallen under the protection of Saranagathy Tattvam". It was not an open

comment for "all". I humbly request you to kindly read my mail in detail

again. And, the Veda Angas may be questioned any time as they are not the

path for moksham. They are additional sciences that one may learn. As you

had mentioned, "AdhyAyam" i.e learning is not condemned. AGAIN, learning is

different from following. If one follows the Jyothisha Shastra or Yoga

Shastra or Vyakarana Shastra instead of just learning the same, then it is

indeed condemned. As the moderator pointed out, there is nothing wrong in

knowing the basic tenets of the same and learning the same. But, it should

not be followed to attain moksha, was the point.

>What you have stated is only the thennAcharya(thenkalai) viewpoint on

>kaivalyam. This discussion on this topic is beyond the scope of this list.

>Needless to say, what you have stated about kaivalyam cannot be accepted by

>all.

>I would request you to re-check with your achAryan about what you stated in

>your previous mail.

 

Regarding what I stated on Kaivalyam, it was purely the view point of Shri

Ramanujar and not of any specific "kalai" for there were no different kalais

except "Thenkalai Sampradayam"at the time of Shri Ramanujar. And hence there

was no necessity for me to explicitly mention "Thennacharya Sampradayam". I

ve verified again that Kaivalyam aka Edu Nilam is indeed the athmanubhavam

and is the worst place to go according to Shri Ramanuja Sampradayam.

 

Please feel free to post other sampradayams' view point so that everyone

would be happy to learn different view points.

 

Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Ramanujam Munim

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,

Lakshmi Narasimhan

 

 

 

----

 

bhakti-list

Monday, January 20, 2003 09:45:01 AM

bhakti-list

Cc: nrusimhan

Re: Kundalini etc.

 

-

"Lakshmi Narasimhan" <nrusimhan

> Vyakarana Shastram: Essence - OM - the shabdham itself is God. Condemned,

 

No, they are not condemned. Vyakaranam, Niruktam, jyOtisham, et all are six

angA-s of the vedam. One cannot condemn all these. Effectively, by

condemning all these, you question the very authority of the angA-s of the

veda. That would make you non-different from a nAstikA. Please do not write

out the pranavam in open. It should not be done so.

 

The AdhyAyam(or learning) of the vedA-agnAm is very important to vedic

study. This cannot be avoided. This underscores to need to undergo

traditional kalakshEpam under the feet of a sadAcharya.

> those who are trapped in kaivalyam (it is one of the mokshams as mentioned

> by our Purvacharyars) are never freed until the almighty really wants to

> free them. And hence, Kaivalyam is probably the worst place one should not

> go to.

 

What you have stated is only the thennAcharya(thenkalai) viewpoint on

kaivalyam. This discussion on this topic is beyond the scope of this list.

Needless to say, what you have stated about kaivalyam cannot be accepted by

all.

 

I would request you to re-check with your achAryan about what you stated in

your previous mail.

 

Regards,

 

Malolan Cadambi

Austin,TX

 

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- SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

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Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha,

 

Nathamunigal, Thirukkacchi Nambigal(used to converse with Shri Kanchi

Devarajan in his yoga dasai), Shri Ramanujar and all our Purvacharyas were

well versed in Yoga Shastram. The very reason why Shri Ramanujar devised the

concept of wearing the 12 thirumans in the different places of the body was

due to the Yoga Shastra. If a veteran in Yoga Shastra notices the 12 places

where the Thiruman is worn by a Vaishnavite, he/she would immediately

recognize that they have placed the Thiruman covering ALL the chakras and

covered the "Ida"(left), "Vala"(right) nadis corresponding to those chakras.

 

A note on Pranayamam. More importance have to be given in thinking about the

lord. And the pranayamam as such just needs to be performed as taught by an

Acharyan. This is where the problem arises. Some focus more on doing the

pranayamam right and lose the actual essence of thinking about god. This has

been happening since the days of Alwars. Nammazhwar has sung a line in

Thiruvaimozhi after feeling bad about the practice of trying to do the

pranayamam properly rather than thinking about the almighty - "Peyarinaiye

pundhiyal sindhiyadhu odhi uruvennum andhiyalam payanangen?" If one just

counts the number of times the Gayathri and does the

sandhyavandhanam(chanting of gayathri manthram is done simultaneous to the

pranayamam) without thinking the very name of the almighty, what is the use

of the same? is what Alwars wonders!

 

Again, I don't intend to say that, doing pranayamam is wrong. Its just an

additional information that even if you do not do it properly it does not

really matter if you actually think about bhagavan at that time - as that

time is more allocated to think about the almighty than the actual

prana-yamam or gayathri ucchadanam.

 

Sarva aparadhaan kshmasva

 

Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jaamaatharam Munim

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,

Lakshmi Narasimhan

-----------------------------

- SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

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>Regarding what I stated on Kaivalyam, it was purely the view point of Shri

>Ramanujar and not of any specific "kalai" ... I

>ve verified again that Kaivalyam aka Edu Nilam is indeed the athmanubhavam

>and is the worst place to go according to Shri Ramanuja Sampradayam.

 

I find this highly interesting. May I ask precisely where in Bhagavad

Ramanuja's writings I might find these views on AtmAnubhava expressed? From

my own reading of his works (in the original), I have formed precisely the

opposite impression, namely that Ramanuja views AtmAnubhava as a

prerequisite for realizing God (e.g. in Vedarthasamgraha: AtmasvarUpAvAptir

bhagavatprAptigarbhA).

 

Ramanuja Dasan,

MG

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> Your statement "One cannot condemn all these" may be acceptable from a

> different view-point. If one takes ONLY the path of Vyakaranam, then that

is

> what is condemned. Similarly if one takes ONLY the yoga margam to attain

> moksham, then that is condemned.

 

The Angam-s are not mArgam-s. They cannot be confused for the other.

> Ramanujar and not of any specific "kalai" for there were no different

kalais

> except "Thenkalai Sampradayam"at the time of Shri Ramanujar. And hence

there

> was no necessity for me to explicitly mention "Thennacharya Sampradayam".

I

 

I would avoid commenting on that issue, since it is not in the charter of

the list. I would also not wish to conduct discussion off-list in this

matter.

 

But, for an independent view, you might wish to read Dr.Patricia Mummume's

book "Sri Vaishnava Theological Dispute".

 

Regards,

 

Malolan Cadambi

Austin,TX

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