L. Miele at Houtskar

[Guest guest]

thankyou for sharing your experience. I enjoyed reading the info. Still curious

whether he taught full vinyasa...

[Guest guest]

No, not the full vinyasa. Just the way people are

taught these days. Half-vinyasa between the sides and

poses. <br><br>From what I've read/heard Guruji does not

recommend full vinyasa any more since it can strain your

heart too much.

[Guest guest]

May I ask what you mean by half vinyasa? Do you

mean a half vinyasa, as in to transit from left to

right side? I'm just guessing...I'm practising a

vinyasa as laid out in Godfrey Devereaux's book 'Dynamic

Yoga', but I haven't as yet linked the Pacifying,

Foundation, and Preparatory Series (as laid out) together and

of course some asanas are beyond my reach. I nearly

always seem to find my own order of poses which varies

each day as I see fit. But if I don't do it the

usual(unplanned)way it seems boring to me. For I know it to be

something that goes where it wants to go and not

necessarily where it's told to go.

[Guest guest]

Regarding the second half of your post, I have

seen posts like this one, and I believe you are

actually asking for guidance, but your pride is stopping

you asking in a straightforward way.<br><br>Your need

to make this statement about your planning of a yoga

session seems to contain some insecurity. So I would

advise you to go with your intuition and your deepest

feelings.

[Guest guest]

That's great, excpet what you are doing is not

ashtanga. Whatever you are doing is fine, but don't kid

yourself. Remember that even in viniyoga (what G. D.

teaches, I think) you do the poses that your teacher lays

out for you, not the poses you 'feel like doing'. You

are missing the spiritual discipline of yoga. What is

boring? Not yoga.<br><br>FBL

[Guest guest]

<< From what I've read/heard Guruji does

not recommend full vinyasa any more since it can

strain your heart too much. >><br><br>Yes, that's

what I've read too - on EZboard, as it

happens.<br><br>It should be said however that, regardless of what

Guruji might recommend, Lino still does seem to teach

full vinyasa, as you can easily deduce from reading

some of the reviews of Lino Miele's workshops at

Moksha Yoga Shala in Chicago published on Betty's

ashtanga.com site. Sample: "Sunday morning was reserved for a

strenuous full vinyasa practice, in which each movement has

a breath (vinyasa) and number...",

<a href=http://www.yogachicago.com/nov00/linomiele.shtml

target=new>http://www.yogachicago.com/nov00/linomiele.shtml</a> .<br><br>And in

<a href=http://www.yogachicago.com/nov99/linomiele.shtml

target=new>http://www.yogachicago.com/nov99/linomiele.shtml</a> you can read the

following: "Full vinyasa is not

practiced in Mysore, where poses are given one at a time.

Lino says that it takes "a few years" to build up the

stamina to do it, and that he teaches it to students

after they've completed the primary

series."<br><br>Lino Miele seems to be particularly fond of the full

vinyasa method. He demonstrates it in both his book

"Astanga Yoga" as well as in his video on primary series

(all approved by Sri Jois, btw). In his new book, John

Scott also shows the primary series in full viyasa

only, with a random notice that the whole thing can be

done in half vinyasa too. Maybe the reason why full

vinyasa is rarely taught in classes and workshops is not

so much Sri Jois' alleged reservations about it, but

simply because it takes too much time for the series to

be completed that way - up to three hours, in fact.

[Guest guest]

I attended a Lino Miele workshop two months ago. We did not practice full

vinyasa. <br><br>Regards

[Guest guest]

FBL<br><br><<That's great, except what you

are doing is not ashtanga>><br><br>Awhile ago I

posted a similar comment only it was about

SivanandaYoga.<br><br>One can do Ashtanga Vinyasa or one can do Sivananda

or any other formal approach to hatha yoga, but

every once in a while, if you are lucky, you get to the

point of spontaneous yoga described by Amrit Desai and

his Guru, where the body instinctively and

effortlessly flows into a series of asanas with you as the

passenger instead of the driver. <br><br>Quite an

experience. Definitely not one that should be passed up for

the sake of adhering to a formula if you have

already, at least at that particular moment ,attained what

the formula is asking of you. Then, should you not be

free to explore where the asanas want to take

you?<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

you know, i've heard a yogic story that the asanas came about from meditating

ascetics who spontaneously jumped up during meditation and performed asana.

interesting...

[Guest guest]

Omprem - Astanga is NOT about "spontaneous yoga",

and it is NOT about being "free to explore where the

asanas want to take you" either. Doing the asanas in the

prescribed order is a principle of fundamental importance in

Astanga Yoga, and if you are unable to realise this, you

have understood not one little bit, sorry to say so.

[Guest guest]

Full vinyasa is good on cold days, days where

it's difficult to get the perspiration going with just

5 A's and 5 B's. Full vinyasa will produce that

extra heat needed.<br><br>Half vinyasa is generally

what most people do, but on extremely hot days, even

vinyasa on both sides isn't necessary or IMO healthy.

Quarter vinyasa is better when it's really

hot.<br><br>There are several benefits to doing vinyasa, but chief

among them (to me anyway) is heat generation. Each

person, being as we're all different in what we need, can

best judge for themselves how much vinyasa is really

necessary.

[Guest guest]

<There are several benefits to doing vinyasa,

but chief among them (to me anyway) is heat

generation.><br><br>True. Nowadays, that I am forced to skip most of the

vinyasa due to a shoulder injury I have noticed how

important it is for keeping up the flow of the practise...

the meditative quality and rhythm is lost when you

just do an asana after another. <br><br>Also, you

never know how good those upward looking doggies are

for your back, after all that forward bending, until

you cannot do them.

[Guest guest]

shining skull<br><br>Ashtanga vinyasa yoga is a

prescribed series of events intended to achieve a particular

goal for a particular type of person. Similarly with

Sivananda yoga and other 'brand names' of yoga that you can

think of. They are constructed specifically to appeal

to aspirants of particular personalities and karmas.

Just as raja yoga, jnana yoga, bhakti yoga and karma

yoga and all the other forms of Self-Realization are

intended for people of different personalities. But once

each of these aspirants begin to enter

Self-Realization, their paths converge. At the base of the mountain

the paths to the top are many, but once at the top of

the mountain the view is the same for

all.<br><br>Similarly, all forms of hatha yoga, have as their ultimate

goal the creation of prana and even kundalini as well

as making the physical, mental and astral bodies fit

vehicles for prana and eventually kundalini to move

through. Once this state of appropriateness is achieved,

spontaneous yoga may, in fact, occassionally occur as

intuition takes over to fine tune the aspirant's specific

situation. <br><br>A practitioner may elect to continue with

his/her prescribed regimen or go with the spontaneity if

and when it occurs. Who cares. The primary objective

is to move toward Self-Realization. <br><br>If

someone needs to appproach Self-Realization one step at a

time according to a set formula that is fine for them.

But, if someone else is not dependent on that formula

all the time for support and discipline, then they

can move to Self-Realization in other ways. Don't

forget that 'ashtanga' means 'eight limbs'.

Asana-pranayama is not the be all and end all. Nor is a

particular approach to asana-pranayama the be all and end

all. There are many ingredients in the recipe for

Self-Realization. The balance of these ingredients to each other is

constantly changing. Their relative importance is constantly

changing. Each of the eight limbs has many levels, some

obvious, some not so obvious. Leave yourself open to your

own intuition and don't be dependent on anyone or

anything. You are the only one who can arrive at your own

Self-Realization. Any one who tells you otherwise is a false

prophet.<br><br>Omprem

[Guest guest]

OK Kwisatch2. I read your message and I haven't

returned to it until now because I wanted to think for

awhile first about how to reply, something hardly anyone

ever does. So what kind of real guidance could you

provide over the Internet anyway? And because I'm aware

of that why would I ask? And maybe I was expressing

some sort of frustration, some sort of frustration

that everyone must sooner or later go through.

Actually, I think I was probably being more honest than

you, only expressing it publicly. How is that

pride?<br><br>What happens is this : I'm in the middle of a sequence

which I've done many times, and get this, my intuition

and deepest feelings tell me I need to do a certain

asana, and it also fits in thematically with the

previous move, in fact it vinyasas in a meaningful way. In

this way I am able to segue back into the order things

are supposed to be right after I break from the

accepted norm, which I do regularly, and add half an hour

to the total time. As far as insecurity, I think a

lot of times it's just the opposite, it's a way to

access different and new postures, and open up those new

synapses while still serving the old master. No, I don't

plan every single move, sometimes I lose my self in

new directions. If it were about pride, I would have

injured myself a long time ago.

[Guest guest]

FBL thanks for replying, except I don't have a

teacher and even if I did, I'd still have to contend with

the same thing, the need to vary the routine. How do

you suppose the great variety of poses came about

anyway? I never claimed to practice some pure form of

ashtanga, but that doesn't preclude my being interested in

it, and whether you think what I practise is or is

not Ashtanga isn't really the issue anyway. Not

everyone is able to choose the ideal circumstances to

learn yoga. I wish I could but for various reasons I

can't. If your circumstances are perfect for you I'm

happy for you. It's not the yoga I consider boring,

it's the repetition of doing the same thing the same

way every time. I consider that mechanical. My

disatisfaction may also contain some motivating factor, which is

partly what I use this club for. And from your reply am

I to consider you being positioned in the eye of

the spiritual discipline and able to figure out just

what my motivational problem may be? If everything

were fine, would I need to practise yoga?

[Guest guest]

Oprem, thank you. Sorry I may have misjudged you

on the basis of all those other confusing posts. You

always seemed a reasonable enough guy at the other club.

That comment about Stockwell Day was probably uncalled

for, and yet you didn't react with anger which you

might have. But you did acknowledge that I struck a

nerve, nothing more, which I wish I were always capable

of only doing!<br><br>The perfect metaphor for what

I was trying to say : "where the body instinctively

and effortlessly flows into a series of asanas with

you as the passenger instead of the driver."

Spontaneous yoga, thank you! Shouldn't we all be free to

explore the different vistas our large-sized brains makes

available to us? Not to put down structure, everyone needs

that, but a person's reach should always exceed their

grasp. If each person is an individual and in every way

different, then how can the exact same sequence of poses be

equally good for each person, therefore variety = growth.

Why else have so many different poses? So many

different kinds of people perhaps that have different

requirements?

[Guest guest]

Omprem<br><br>It's interesting to note that those

who defend systems that (obviously) work (for some),

don't work for everyone, and fail to realize that the

entire modern system of yoga was based on the

innovative, and changes to the tried and true. Maybe what

works for you won't work for me even if some insist it

works for them so it should work for me. One thing for

sure, if it weren't for innovation, there would be no

modern system of yoga, much less ashtanga yoga.

[Guest guest]

I think the perspective of following a structure

is described well in this quote from Dena

Kingsberg:<br><br><br>When asked whether she tires of the repetitive nature

of the ashtanga vinyasa practice, in which a set

series of poses is practiced in a specific order, Dena

said that she has yet to find it stale or

redundant.<br><br>"What is different is that if your practice is the same

every day, you are variable in experience. If you

change the practice, you have no mirror. Then it's a

whim, not a spiritual practice. It's not something we

create, but has been tried and tested. With a program you

get an insight as to where you were-you get to watch

yourself evolve through the process. If you take a piece

of metal and rub it in the same place every day, it

eventually will bend."<br><br><br>The rest of the article is

at:<br><br><a href=http://www.yogachicago.com/jul99/dena.shtml

target=new>http://www.yogachicago.com/jul99/dena.shtml</a>