Guest guest Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Namaste to all Can sadhaka indulge in sex and also do sadhana keeping in mind that the happiness he gets would be offered at the feet of the divinity ?????? Vik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 But who is capable of really doing that? - vikram vanam Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:16 AM sex and sadhana ??? Namaste to all Can sadhaka indulge in sex and also do sadhana keeping in mind that the happiness he gets would be offered at the feet of the divinity ?????? Vik Traditions Divine a.. Visit your group "" on the web. b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 , vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005> wrote: > Namaste to all > > > > Can sadhaka indulge in sex and also do sadhana keeping in mind that the happiness he gets would be offered at the feet of the divinity ?????? > > > > Vik You see this is a very classical experiment. Once you mention about Sex, it is sure to get the attention. I rest my case here ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 Interesting question. Let us take a hypothetical case where some one is doing it. Let us assume the so called sadhaka is male. The most basic of the rules of Sadhana is sincerity aka Bhava. For such sadhana, not even any mantra is required. Examples are Kannappa nayanar in Thiruvilayadal puranam and the elephant & spider as in Thiruvaanaikka sthala puranam. Kannappan was a tribal who knew no mantra, still Shiva granted him entry into HIS abode over the Pujari who was performing daily rituals to HIM. Elephant and spider - no need to mention that they cannot chant mantras. Thus, if a male sadhaka is making love (not just sex) to his partner, if he is not thinking of her (his partner), but thinking of HER (Godess) I doubt how it will be possible to make love. If the sadhaka is thinking of HER and having sex (not making love) to woman, then the sadhaka is not sincere either. So it is not sadhana. This so far is only from the worldly perspective. If the sadhaka assumes that thinking of HER and making love to a woman is sadhana, I pity him. Not because he is deluding himself, but because what he will get. There is a saying that there is no hell like a woman scorned. If it applies to a woman in this world, I will not like to think of the effect of the Empress of the Worlds being scorned. Assuming the sadhaka does manage something like in the second case, Shiva is not going to take it very well. Trident stuck in the bu*t may look funny in cartoons, but in real life it will be more than the proverbial pain in the bu*t. Again holy wrath is not something imaginable. For all that matters to you, there is only one kaula who you know and must heed. That is your guru. So this looooooong post boils down to only 3 words.....Ask your Guru! :-) G PS: Reading something which has been given IN PART to emphasize a greater cause (in a fuller context) and forming ideas is not good for life (as in sadhana). , vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005> wrote: > Namaste to all > > > > Can sadhaka indulge in sex and also do sadhana keeping in mind that the happiness he gets would be offered at the feet of the divinity ?????? > > > > Vik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 Sex is attained with the total control of all the six senses. All the senses are concentrating of the satisfaction derived by the ejaculation/orgasm. Eyes behold something beautiful. ears are closed to any music and concentrate only on the act of sex. The sense of touch feels nothing but the coupleing of the bodies. Similarly the taste and smell. Above all, the mind coordinates all the senses towards the sexual bliss. Can anyone do any other thing while ejaculating or attaining an orgasm? No. No man or woman can. Because all his senses are lost in the ecstatic joy deriuved from sex climax. Hence in such an act a person shall definitely forget God, unless he is in an act with some low profile goddesses like yakshinis, mohinis,etc where sex is a must and part of sadhana. Hence satvik sadhana has the compulsory rule that sex should be abstained. Secondly it is the semen which mixes with the blood forming the shakthi in the body.Only a person who has abstained from sex shall be able to attain results on a very faster note. One sincere advice. Plz do not indulge in sexual activites with mohinis or yakshinis. It is very difficult for an person to control them and the result shall be fatal. Jai Gurudev ganpra <ganpra wrote: Interesting question. Let us take a hypothetical case where some one is doing it. Let us assume the so called sadhaka is male. The most basic of the rules of Sadhana is sincerity aka Bhava. For such sadhana, not even any mantra is required. Examples are Kannappa nayanar in Thiruvilayadal puranam and the elephant & spider as in Thiruvaanaikka sthala puranam. Kannappan was a tribal who knew no mantra, still Shiva granted him entry into HIS abode over the Pujari who was performing daily rituals to HIM. Elephant and spider - no need to mention that they cannot chant mantras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 If it were that simple....................... vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005 wrote:Namaste to all Can sadhaka indulge in sex and also do sadhana keeping in mind that the happiness he gets would be offered at the feet of the divinity ?????? Vik Traditions Divine Visit your group "" on the web. for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 , "SR.Raj kumar" <srirajarajeswari9> wrote: > Sex is attained with the total control of all the six senses. All the senses are concentrating of the satisfaction derived by the ejaculation/orgasm. Eyes behold something beautiful. ears are closed to any music and concentrate only on the act of sex. The sense of touch feels nothing but the coupleing of the bodies. Similarly the taste and smell. Above all, the mind coordinates all the senses towards the sexual bliss. Can anyone do any other thing while ejaculating or attaining an orgasm? No. No man or woman can. Because all his senses are lost in the ecstatic joy deriuved from sex climax. Hence in such an act a person shall definitely forget God, unless he is in an act with some low profile goddesses like yakshinis, mohinis,etc where sex is a must and part of sadhana. Hence satvik sadhana has the compulsory rule that sex should be abstained. > Secondly it is the semen which mixes with the blood forming the shakthi in the body.Only a person who has abstained from sex shall be able to attain results on a very faster note. > > One sincere advice. Plz do not indulge in sexual activites with mohinis or yakshinis. It is very difficult for an person to control them and the result shall be fatal. ++++ WHAT DO YOU MEAN bY YAKSHINI AND MOHINI'S? WHERE DO YOU FIND THEM? <SMILE> ROR SOME BRAHMACHARIES WOMEN EITHER LOOK LIKE YAKSHINIS OR FOR SOME THEY LOOK LIKE MOTHERS > > Jai Gurudev > > > > ganpra <ganpra@r...> wrote: > Interesting question. > > Let us take a hypothetical case where some one is doing it. Let us > assume the so called sadhaka is male. > > The most basic of the rules of Sadhana is sincerity aka Bhava. For > such sadhana, not even any mantra is required. Examples are Kannappa > nayanar in Thiruvilayadal puranam and the elephant & spider as in > Thiruvaanaikka sthala puranam. Kannappan was a tribal who knew no > mantra, still Shiva granted him entry into HIS abode over the Pujari > who was performing daily rituals to HIM. Elephant and spider - no need > to mention that they cannot chant mantras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 93 But still it is better than nothing. If one starts from intention of devotion, it will lead him step by step to the purity of heart. In any casy everyone has a full right to love and be loved. And to go against love is an obvious obstacle to sadhana. As it is said, "bind nothing". Sex is natural and needed, and since it is transformed through devotion, sad-bhavana, it is most sacred. Pranam, Sankara... Love is the law, love under will. A. , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > If it were that simple....................... > > vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005> wrote:Namaste to all > > Can sadhaka indulge in sex and also do sadhana keeping in mind that the happiness he gets would be offered at the feet of the divinity ?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 93, Respected Ganpra, You speak about Bhava, but it seems that U had no experience of true love. The sophistical exegesis which U had given shows nothing more that the absense of true understanding - sajjnana. And if we take a point of philosophy and not sadhana - i suggest U to read some material about rasa-theory, aropa and sahaja. It may clarify the matter for U at least intellectually... I am sorry to say this, but i have to speak. If not for U, then for others who read the thread. "striyA samastA sakalA jagatsu" - says Devi-mahatmya - "SHE is present in the world in women". Let Maa bless U and open Ur heart. A. , "ganpra" <ganpra@r...> wrote: > Interesting question. > > Let us take a hypothetical case where some one is doing it. Let us > assume the so called sadhaka is male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Hi Arjuna, After reading your post, I went back and read Ganpra's post. A better reply than Ganpra's reply could not have been given. Now it is clear that somebody other than Ganpra is in need of "true understanding" :- ). Thanks to Ganpra for that wise reply!!! -yogaman , "Arjuna Taranandanatha" <bhagatirtha@m...> wrote: > 93, > > Respected Ganpra, > > You speak about Bhava, but it seems that U had no experience of true > love. The sophistical exegesis which U had given shows nothing more > that the absense of true understanding - sajjnana. > > And if we take a point of philosophy and not sadhana - i suggest U > to read some material about rasa-theory, aropa and sahaja. It may > clarify the matter for U at least intellectually... > > I am sorry to say this, but i have to speak. If not for U, then for > others who read the thread. > > "striyA samastA sakalA jagatsu" - says Devi-mahatmya - "SHE is > present in the world in women". > > Let Maa bless U and open Ur heart. > > A. > > , "ganpra" <ganpra@r...> wrote: > > Interesting question. > > > > Let us take a hypothetical case where some one is doing it. Let us > > assume the so called sadhaka is male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 sex is a delusion.. see this: www.antisex.go.ro --- ganpra <ganpra wrote: > Interesting question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 My dear Arjuna: Yes but sex as an upasana tool is taken at a time when one has reached a cetain stage. Till that stage is reached sex is still the simple old sex. Thats what I meant with my comment. Yes it is a powerful tool in the hands of a qualified upasaka; otherwise its is like a garland in the hands of a monkey. I bow to you. Arjuna Taranandanatha <bhagatirtha wrote: 93 But still it is better than nothing. If one starts from intention of devotion, it will lead him step by step to the purity of heart. In any casy everyone has a full right to love and be loved. And to go against love is an obvious obstacle to sadhana. As it is said, "bind nothing". Sex is natural and needed, and since it is transformed through devotion, sad-bhavana, it is most sacred. Pranam, Sankara... Love is the law, love under will. A. , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > If it were that simple....................... > > vikram vanam <vikram_vanam2005> wrote:Namaste to all > > Can sadhaka indulge in sex and also do sadhana keeping in mind that the happiness he gets would be offered at the feet of the divinity ?????? Visit your group "" on the web. for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 93, completely agree with U . I wasn't advocating sexual sadhanas for every Bill & Dick. As i understood the starting point of the thread was the following: whether it is possible for sadhaka to have sex and offer joy to Devi. And to this question the answer is yes. Devoted attitude to shakti is achievable for every sincerely loving person, that is why this niyama can be given to everyone. Celibacy is unnatural and in consequence degrading thing in general case. But it doesn't mean one has to adopt vama-naya rituals etc, not at all. These are taken on only after particular blessing of the kaula-guru for that. If one has sex, it's OK. And it is beautiful if kama is joined with bhakti... Pranam, A. , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > My dear Arjuna: > Yes but sex as an upasana tool is taken at a time when one has reached a cetain stage. Till that stage is reached sex is still the simple old sex. Thats what I meant with my comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 ROFL!! It is very enlightening that since I posted a long comment, that I have no understanding. That still does not explain how you came to the conclusion that I have not experienced true love. Anyway, I am glad that after several posts you cleared up a point of your posting saying that you would not "prescribe sexual sadhana for every Bill & Dick.....These are taken on only after particular blessing of the kaula-guru for that." I understand [yes, sometimes I do :-)] that people may be fed up with looong posts and do not read until the end, where I told Vikram "..this loooooong post boils down to only three words.....Ask your Guru," which he should have, after reading the translation of SL verse 27 on SS home page and asked here if it is ok or not to offer the happiness attained by having "sex." It also means he is not here yet. Adopting sex and sadha at this stage of his development might be harmful [as I mentioned in my PS note - or BS note ;-)]. Unlike some who post for everybody to read because they are so well read, knowledgeable and want to share their expertise with other shakthas, postings of mine are for specific persons. They are generally irrelevant to others. And, respectful greetings on your attainment of the stage of natha from a dasa. G , "Arjuna Taranandanatha" <bhagatirtha@m...> wrote: > 93, > > Respected Ganpra, > > You speak about Bhava, but it seems that U had no experience of true > love. The sophistical exegesis which U had given shows nothing more > that the absense of true understanding - sajjnana. > > And if we take a point of philosophy and not sadhana - i suggest U > to read some material about rasa-theory, aropa and sahaja. It may > clarify the matter for U at least intellectually... > > I am sorry to say this, but i have to speak. If not for U, then for > others who read the thread. > > "striyA samastA sakalA jagatsu" - says Devi-mahatmya - "SHE is > present in the world in women". > > Let Maa bless U and open Ur heart. > > A. > > , "ganpra" <ganpra@r...> wrote: > > Interesting question. > > > > Let us take a hypothetical case where some one is doing it. Let us > > assume the so called sadhaka is male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 ganpra" <ganpra@r...> wrote: Unlike some who post for everybody to read because they are so well read, knowledgeable and want to share their expertise with other shakthas, postings of mine are for specific persons. They are generally irrelevant to others. But the problem ganpra is that, there are many who are well read and knowledgeable but no personal experience. My personal believe personal experience is more superior than bookish experiencs. Book knowledge remain book knowledge only good for board room discussion and forum. You will look very impressive but is this it is all about? To look impressive. In actual practice as we all know there are different. When I started my path, hey! I was all excited. I asked my guru, why cant we do this or that. The scriptures says so. Im told later, there are certain conditions you must consider before trying to follow everything from the book. That is what im told too when I graduated from my nursing school. What they taught you in Nursing school cannot be practice in real life. They are completely different altogether. In theory everything seems possible but when you try to apply it, its not practical. That is why im told : practice first what you are taught. Tell me the experiences and we match it with the scriptures. If your experience is real and true, it should match with the scriptures. Theory and Philosphy clouds the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Hi Arjuna, If this is what you REALLY meant, then we are in complete agreement. Kind regards, -yogaman , "Arjuna Taranandanatha" <bhagatirtha@m...> wrote: > 93, > > completely agree with U . > > I wasn't advocating sexual sadhanas for every Bill & Dick. As i > understood the starting point of the thread was the following: whether > it is possible for sadhaka to have sex and offer joy to Devi. And to > this question the answer is yes. Devoted attitude to shakti is > achievable for every sincerely loving person, that is why this niyama > can be given to everyone. Celibacy is unnatural and in consequence > degrading thing in general case. But it doesn't mean one has to adopt > vama-naya rituals etc, not at all. These are taken on only after > particular blessing of the kaula-guru for that. If one has sex, it's > OK. And it is beautiful if kama is joined with bhakti... > > Pranam, > A. > > , sankara menon <kochu1tz> > wrote: > > My dear Arjuna: > > Yes but sex as an upasana tool is taken at a time when one has > reached a cetain stage. Till that stage is reached sex is still the > simple old sex. Thats what I meant with my comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 93, Glad to have this reply from U. Then, > It is very enlightening that since I posted a long comment, that I > have no understanding. That still does not explain how you came to the conclusion that I have not experienced true love. Hope U won't state that the size of the post proves the value of the content. What i wrote to U about U having no experience in that, is based on Ur statements. The ONLY exception i can admit is my imperfect language + Ur imperfect explanation - however i keep to my view given before. > I understand [yes, sometimes I do :-)] that people may be fed up with looong posts and do not read until the end, where I told Vikram > "..this loooooong post boils down to only three words.....Ask your > Guru," I have read Ur post till the end . And i have seen this statement. But U miss the point now. I put it again: 1. To enjoy sex is OK and is not disturbing sadhana. 2. It is very beneficial to put some spiritual intention in that. It is good to pray while enjoying. It is helpful to offer the bliss to Devi. Sex in love IS spiritual and sacred WITHOUT any rituals and sadhanas. 3. But to use sexual practices given in Tantras one necessarily has to get kula-diksha and upadesha from guru. Without that it becomes a misuse. 4. Concluding, ANY sadhaka can enjoy sex and have to offer it to Devi - in bhava of devotion, but NOT as a specific ritual (which are reserved strictly to kaulabhishiktas). When U kiss a woman with love, it is a puja to Devi. Even if done inconsciously. Sexual delight is a sparc of Divine, even if there is no idea of spirituality in mind of partners. Becuase bhava is not dependent upon one's ideas bla-bla-blah. Love is Divine. which he should have, after reading the translation of SL verse > 27 on SS home page and asked here if it is ok or not to offer the > happiness attained by having "sex." YES. This doesn't require any diksha. Love is natural and spontaneous, sahaja. God is ever present in our hearts. Then what is the problem?? > Adopting sex and sadha at this stage of his development might be > harmful [as I mentioned in my PS note - or BS note ;-)]. "Sex and sadhana" is very different from "sexual sadhanas" (specific mystical rituals of Kula). There is no harm in the first, but the second requires initiation. > And, respectful greetings on your attainment of the stage of natha > from a dasa. Ur sarcasm is brilliant ). In fact "Taradasa" was always a web-nickname and not a diksha one. But yes, it is funny... Best regards, A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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