Do You Guru?

April 12, 2002

Hi Everyone:

It's probably a rotten trick to bring up this perennially sore

subject once again, but I found an interesting passage on the need

for a guru -- in Srividya, in this case -- and I thought I'd pass it

on to see whether anyone happens to agree of disagree with the

author.

In a nutshell, he says, yes, you need to be initiated by a guru --

but he is quite flexible on who that guru may be. That's an important

point in a time when good (or even authentic) gurus are hard to find,

not just in the West, but in India as well. Many people who

cannot "find" a guru (I know you've addressed this below, Kochu, I'm

just stating the basic dilemma) wonder how in the world they are

supposed to begin a discipline of sadhana.

The passage was written by Dr. C. Suryanarayanamurthy (1898-1985), a

Srividya initiate, in his book, "Sri Lalita Sahasranamam:

Introduction and Commentary" (Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, Mumbai, Reprint

Edition: 2000):

ON THE NEED AND NATURE OF A GURU:

"In Lalita Sahasranamam, every one of the thousand names in a mantra

in its own right -- apart from being a mere descriptive verbal

arrangement. Mahamantras like Sri Gayatri and others are all mantra

swarupas of one and the same ultimate power. They are to be initiated

into by a competent guru.

"It must be clearly understood that a competent guru must guide that

sadhaka in these practices, but -- in this secular age -- if he is

very competent he does not advertise himself for our benefit.

"[The guru] is to be considered Siva -- Himself. [Also, the sadhaka

must cultivate:] (1) an intense faith and surrender; (2) [familiarity

with] sacred books, which are now very much available; (3) such help

as we get from the teachings of great ones, like Sri Ramakrishna, Sri

Ramana Maharishi and Sri Aurobindo; and (4) the company of devoted

sadhakas [which is what we try to provide here in this Group! - DB].

"In [his] commentary of Sri Soundaryalahari, Sri Laksmidhara Lolla

promises that he will be the Guru of anyone who thinks about him in

the path of Sri Vidya. To the intense devotee, the Divine Mother

Herself acts as the great Guru and guides him if sincerely prayed

for."

So ... Dr. Suryanarayanamurthy seems to believe that a living, human

guru is not absolutely necessary. A deceased swami or the Deity

Herself will also fill the role. An American Hindu author, David

Frawley, was called this kind of a guru "right discrimination."

Several Hindus of my acquaintance claim to be the devotees of gurus

they readily admit never having met.

So even if we agree that "a guru is necessary" to initiate the

devotee into her/his sadhana, there seems considerable room to argue

exactly who that guru may be. Is there a "right" answer? Any and all

opinions on the topic are welcome and encouraged!

Aum Maatangyai Namahe

April 12, 2002

Dear Devi Bhaktha and all others:

I agree absolutely with the view that it is difficult

to get a “good” Guru. I do not think it is a

difficulty that we are facing only in this time and

age. The very references by Lakshmidhara and the

author of SriVidyaarnnava specifically offered

themselves as Gurus for all time to come. They did not

do that because of their ego. They did it specifically

because they knew how difficult it is to get a “good”

Guru.

Iyt is further said that one must wait patiently till

the guru comes to you. It is not you selecting the

Guru but Guru selecting you.

It is my personal view and that of my Guru (who

unfortunately is no more) that upto Panchadashi even

written word can be the Guru. When it comes to

shodashi and sri Chakra puja you do need a competent

teacher.

In order to assess the difficulty in finding a guru a

few quotations may be interesting

Multasthu mochayethoordwam na muktho mochakaha kadham?

(kulaarnava 13th Chapter)

A liberated soul liberates; how can un liberated soul

help liberate?

… na moorkho moorkamuddharet – an unliberated cannot

liberate another unliberated……

Guravo bahavasanti shishyavithaapaharakaha

Durllabhoyam Gururddevi Shishyasanthaapahaarakaha

(There are many gurus who steal from shishyas

Indeed it is rare to find a Guru who is capable of

wiping out the sorrows of shishyas)—Malinee tantra

In the same vein it is difficult to find shishyas who

have the shishyalakshanas in full and I can say with

full frankness that I have had the doubt about my

eligibility to be a shishya a lot of times. Whenever I

questioned my Guru on that she only laughed and asked

me to study the books better.

So what I did was to leave everything to

Mahaatripurasundari and my Guru appeared.

Perfect Guru and perfect shishya are rare indeed in

the world, though not impossible because I have seen

both. I have a gurubhai whom I can call a perfect

shishya he is in the 70s and a scientist. I learnt a

lot on what a shishya should be from him.

Just start sadhana anyways you will. Preferably with

authentic texts as guide and

slowwwwwwwwwwwwllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

The Guru FOR YOU will appear.

He may not be a perfect guru for another but he will

be for you. He will be “competent” as far as you are

concerned.

The right answer is to have the desire for progress

and grace of Maa and wait for her to provide the

answer. Many people have had bad experiences because

they went in search of gurus in their anxity. You can.

But do not jump in anywhere and everywhere. Just wait

watch and analayse as to whether this is the right

place or person FOR YOU. Once you have coolly analysed

and sought Devi’s guidance, you can take the decision.

Do not be fooled by psychic powers. They come to many.

That is no sign of ability to lead a shishya.

In my humble opinion that is my view.

--- devi_bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote:

Hi Everyone:

It's probably a rotten trick to bring up this

perennially sore subject once again, but I found an

interesting passage on the need for a guru -- in

Srividya, in this case -- and I thought I'd pass it

on to see whether anyone happens to agree of disagree

with the author.

In a nutshell, he says, yes, you need to be initiated

by a guru -- but he is quite flexible on who that

guru may be. That's an important point in a time when

good (or even authentic) gurus are hard to find, not

just in the West, but in India as well. Many people

who cannot "find" a guru (I know you've addressed this

below, Kochu, I'm just stating the basic dilemma)

wonder how in the world they are supposed to begin a

discipline of sadhana.

The passage was written by Dr. C. Suryanarayanamurthy

(1898-1985), a Srividya initiate, in his book, "Sri

Lalita Sahasranamam: Introduction and Commentary"

(Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, Mumbai, Reprint Edition:

2000):

ON THE NEED AND NATURE OF A GURU:

"In Lalita Sahasranamam, every one of the thousand

names in a mantra in its own right -- apart from being

a mere descriptive verbal arrangement. Mahamantras

like Sri Gayatri and others are all mantra swarupas of

one and the same ultimate power. They are to be

initiated into by a competent guru.

"It must be clearly understood that a competent guru

must guide that sadhaka in these practices, but -- in

this secular age -- if he is very competent he does

not advertise himself for our benefit.

"[The guru] is to be considered Siva -- Himself.

[Also, the sadhaka must cultivate:] (1) an intense

faith and surrender;

(2) [familiarity with] sacred books, which are now

very much available;

(3) such help as we get from the teachings of great

ones, like Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Ramana Maharishi and

Sri Aurobindo; and

(4) the company of devoted sadhakas [which is what we

try to provide here in this Group! - DB].

"In [his] commentary of Sri Soundaryalahari, Sri

Laksmidhara Lolla promises that he will be the Guru of

anyone who thinks about him in the path of Sri Vidya.

To the intense devotee, the Divine Mother Herself acts

as the great Guru and guides him if sincerely prayed

for."

So ... Dr. Suryanarayanamurthy seems to believe that a

living, human guru is not absolutely necessary. A

deceased swami or the Deity Herself will also fill the

role. An American Hindu author, David Frawley, was

called this kind of a guru "right discrimination."

Several Hindus of my acquaintance claim to be the

devotees of gurus they readily admit never having met.

So even if we agree that "a guru is necessary" to

initiate the devotee into her/his sadhana, there seems

considerable room to argue exactly who that guru may

be. Is there a "right" answer? Any and all opinions on

the topic are welcome and encouraged!

Aum Maatangyai Namahe

Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

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April 13, 2002

Your guru sounds like Amritanand whos name came to me once during

meditation.