BhaktiK

I guess I should just stay away from people who criticize Srila Sridhar Maharaj

If I point out the depth of corruption in Iskcon pre-samadhi and the fact that the corruption was known about at the highest level, people will say I'm offensive.

And how many times has this offensive letter to Rupanuga been published on this site and by "Prabhupada men".

I wish I'd never heard of this site Audarya and I will not log in again.

Hare Krishna

Jaiva Dharma, Chapter Fifteen

Vrajanatha: Another time a brahmana pandita of Nabadwip said that only the individual soul exists. In a dream he experiences material happiness and suffering. When he wakes up from the dream, he discovers that he is Brahman. What does this mean?

 

Babaji: That is also impersonalism. Brahman has a dream and becomes the individual soul? What proof do they have for that? The scriptures give the examples of mistaking the glittering on a seashell's surface for silver and mistaking a rope for a snake, but these examples do not prove the impersonalist idea that Brahman alone exists. These words are only a great network of word-jugglery meant to bewilder the people in general.

 

Vrajanatha: The individual soul is not created by maya. That I accept. Maya has the power to dominate the individual soul. That I understand. This is my question: Does the spiritual potency (cit-shakti) place the individual soul on the border (tatastha) of matter and spirit?

 

Babaji: No. The cit-shakti is the full manifestation of Lord Krishna's potency. Whatever she creates is eternally perfect (nitya-siddha). The individual spirit souls are not eternally perfect. By engaging in the activities of devotional service (sadhana) they may become perfect (sadhana-siddha) and thus enjoy spiritual bliss exactly like that enjoyed by the eternally perfect (nitya-siddha) beings. The four kinds of gopi-friends (sakhi) of Srimati Radharani are eternally perfect beings (nitya-siddha). They are manifested from the form of Srimati Radharani, who is the cit-shakti Herself. All the individual spirit souls are manifested from Lord Krishna's jiva-shakti. The cit-shakti is Lord Krishna's complete potency (purna-shakti). The individual souls (jiva-shakti) are counted among Lord Krishna's incomplete potencies (apurna-shakti). From the complete potency complete and perfect things are manifested. From the incomplete potency all the individual souls, who are atomic fragments of consciousness, are manifested.

Yes Vedesu, if their philosophy is true then maybe souls need to search for a world higher than Goloka since the souls in Goloka have painful dreams and see themselves burning in the inferno.

But their philosophy is false....

C'est Iskcon malheureux favorise une philosophie aliénée qui empoisonne la terre où nous essayons de prêcher.

King Yudhisthira:

For unflinching devotees of the Lord to fall into this material world is impossible. I cannot believe this. (SB 7.1.34)

 

The sanskrit shows something more:

hari-dāsābhimarśanaḥ aśraddheya ivābhāti harer ekāntināḿ bhavaḥ

Hari-dasa (the devotees of Hari) ābhimarśanah (being overcome) aśraddheya (defeating their faith [sRADDHA]) iva (as if) ābhāti (it appears) hareḥ (of Hari) ekāntinām (of those exclusively devoted as exalted attendants) bhavaḥ (taking birth in a material body)

i.e.

"It appears that the faith of the exclusively devoted attendants of Visnu is crushed and they had to take birth in the material world after being cursed by impersonalist sages who had never had darshan of Narayana"

Please provide evidence how you found out about the actual financial situation of the maths at that time.

Well I was living at SCSMath in Nabadwip when the first western devotees started to arrive.

We had no running water (seventy year old people used to bathe from water in buckets from the well)

Dirt pathways everywhere (no concrete or marble)

Prashadam cooked on coal fires

Srila Sridhar Maharaj used to personally manage the money and pay for salt etc on a daily basis

Floods used to come regularly..

No regular electricity...

No telephone

Prashad with grubs in it

---

they were the best days of my life and I would be happy to live and die a million lifetimes just so I could go back there for a few years in each lifetime.

Krishna has a halo around his face when he walks along the riverbank of the Yamuna in Vrindaban.

The halo is Brahman. Brahman exists in Vaikuntha.

Siksas and diksas were plentiful at Naimasaranya. Including Vyasa, Narada, Parasara. They could not in one eyelash give any empowerment to Romaraharsana, who was slain by a blade of grass by the only one who gives empowerment to be His external manifestation as guru, all types, introductory, teacher, or initiator, Lord Sri Balarama.

 

This has been a grave misunderstanding over many decades, where is empowerment to represent Krsna springing from. There is no history where a guru makes the next guru, despite many claims to the contrary.

 

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

Documented examples of Gurus empowering and ordering their disciples to become Gurus (siksa and diksa gurus)

1) Sri Jiva Goswami ordered his siksa disciple Syamananda Thakura (the history is well known) to leave his life of bhajan in Vraja-dham and go to his native place, preach and initiate disciples.

Interestingly, it is a widely known fact recorded in numerous old books that Syamananda Thakur's relationship with his diksa guru (Hridaya Caitanya Goswami) was more or less severed after his diksa guru beat him up in Vraja when he found out that Syamananda was now following Jiva Goswami.

Sri Jiva also ordered another two devotees, Srinivasa Acharya (disciple of Gopal Bhatta Goswami), and Narottama Thakura (disciple of Lokanatha) to go to Bengal and become a Guru.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

NOTE:::::::

Narottama is mentioned in the Guru Parampara list in Bhagavad Gita as it is, but the name of his diksa Guru (Lokanatha) is not mentioned. Devotees in Iskcon sing "Sri Guru Carana Padma... Lokanatha lokera jivana..." but almost none of them ever ask "why is Lokanatha's name not mentioned in the Guru Parampara list?"

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

3) Syamananda Thakura had over 250,000 initiated disciples (yes that number is right) and amongst those Rasikananda Thakura was chosen to be the leader of the sampradaya. Syamananda Thakura clearly stated that Rasikananda was his successor and all the descendents of Syamananda accept that this is was the choice and decision of Syamananda Thakura.

4) Visvanatha Cakravarti instructed Baladeva Vidyabhusana to preach in Jaipura, and after defeating the Ramanandi sholars he gave diksa to some of them. Baladeva Vidyabhusana was the initiated disciple of Radha-Damodara Goswami or Orissa, a third generation descendent of Rasikananda, the chosen successor of Syamananda Thakura.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

NOTE::::::::::

In the Guru Parampara list at the end of the introduction to "Bhagavad Gita as it is" it mentions Visvanatha as the Guru of Baladeva. No mention is given of the lineage of Gurus from Syamananda to Rasikananda to Radha-Damodara to Baladeva.

The person who empowered Baladeva to preach (Visvananatha) is listed as his Guru.

Whereas in the books of Baladeva he clearly states that he is the initiated disciple of Radha Damodara Goswami.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

5) Jagannatha dasa Babaji accepted Thakura Bhaktivinode as his disciple but he never gave him any sort of initiation. Thakura Bhaktivinode was the initiated disciple of Bipin Bihari Goswami, a caste goswami, but when this caste goswami opposed the worship at Mahaprabhu's birthplace in Mayapura a disagreement ensued and indeed Bipin Bihari Goswami rejected Thakura Bhaktivinode as his disciple.

6) Thakura Bhaktivinode instructed Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura to preach, establish temples and so forth. There is the text of a letter from Thakura Bhaktivinode to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura stating this on Narasingha Maharaja's web site.

7) Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura told his disciple Bhakti Saranga Goswami that when he went to London he could give diksa and accept disciples. Indeed Bhakti Saranga Goswami did initiate an Australian man and bring that disciple back to India to meet with Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura.

:::::::::::

BTW, tomorrow is the Vyasa Puja day of Srila Bhakti Saranga Goswami and devotees from many Maths will gather at the temple of Bhakti Saranga Goswami at Imlitala in Vrindaban to give honour to this great devotee.

:::::::::::

8) Srila B. R. Sridhar Maharaj chose his disciple Swami. B. S. Govinda Dev Goswami Maharaj to be his successor Acharya.

9) B. P. Puri Gosai chose his disciple Sripad Bodhayana Maharaj as his successor.

...

Numerous other examples of less well known Acharyas can be given.

But without doubt the fact that Baladeva is listed as a disciple of his siksa guru Visvanantha in "Bhagavad Gita as it is" is the most obvious example of a siksa guru empowering a disciple, and the fact that Syamananda Thakura was known as a disciple of his siksa guru Sri Jiva Goswami prove that a Guru can select a disciple to be his successor and Acharya.

One Hawaiian guru who is now married to the divorced wife of one of his disciples often says that a Guru never chooses a successor. But this is foolishness. People with no knowledge of the real history of Gaudiya Vaisnavism may be fooled by the foolish ideas taught by neophytes. What to do? Maybe in their next life the followers of this neophyte will understand what the Vaisnava religion really is.

Originally Posted by Beggar

[...] To think that these spiritual personalities fall or dream that they have fallen is a big offense.

 

 

Gauragopala says all souls are either Visnu tattva or jiva tattva. He doesn't accept there is an difference between souls who are antaranga shakti or who are tatastha shakti.

According to his FALL theory the divine antaranga shakti beings (Gopis etc) have started dreaming about doing things like injecting heroin into their arms, eating hamburgers, homosexual activity, stock market speculation and so on and so forth. All the beings in the world are actually pure souls in Goloka, including beings such as vampire bats and rats that eat their children when they are hungry, as well as herpes germs and syphilis germs and the billions of krill and jellyfish that are mindlessly drifting around in the ocean. Mosquitoes are all residents of Goloka who are just dreaming about how they can get lucky and find somebody that they can suck blood from.

When we go to sleep at night we forget all about this material life and all our desires are deactivated. In that state where we are not involved in Maya, perhaps we are reawakened in our Goloka life. Is that what is going on? In the daytime in Goloka we are doing service to Krishna, and then we go off to sleep a material dream and start to dream that we are Gauragopala das ACBSP the pet of Srila Visnupada Bhavananda Maharaja.

It is totally absurd to think that the jiva cannot come down to the material world from Goloka Vrndavana due to free will.

 

It is true however that their nitya-siddha body can never fall down.

 

Prabhupada said the spiritual body is within this material body. The spiritual body and the soul are not in Goloka but in the world of Maya.

Edinburgh, July 16, 1972

Your spiritual body is already there within this material body. And in that spiritual body you shall exist along with God. That is the highest perfection of life.

 

Bhagavad-gita 2.13

The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body. So how we are eternal, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:avināśi tu tad viddhi yena

 

Bhagavad-gita 4.9-11

The spiritual body is already existing. I am spirit; I have got my spiritual body, but that body is now covered by this matter.

It is totally absurd to think that the jiva cannot come down to the material world from Goloka Vrndavana due to free will.

 

It is true however that their nitya-siddha body can never fall down.

 

Prabhupada said the spiritual body is within this material body. The spiritual body and the soul are not in Goloka but in the world of Maya.

Edinburgh, July 16, 1972

Your spiritual body is already there within this material body. And in that spiritual body you shall exist along with God. That is the highest perfection of life.

 

Bhagavad-gita 2.13

The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body. So how we are eternal, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:avināśi tu tad viddhi yena

 

Bhagavad-gita 4.9-11

The spiritual body is already existing. I am spirit; I have got my spiritual body, but that body is now covered by this matter.

 

 

 

It is totally absurd to think that the jiva cannot come down to the material world from Goloka Vrndavana due to free will.

 

It is true however that their nitya-siddha body can never fall down.

 

Prabhupada said the spiritual body is within this material body. The spiritual body and the soul are not in Goloka but in the world of Maya.

Edinburgh, July 16, 1972

Your spiritual body is already there within this material body. And in that spiritual body you shall exist along with God. That is the highest perfection of life.

 

Bhagavad-gita 2.13

The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body. So how we are eternal, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:avināśi tu tad viddhi yena

 

Bhagavad-gita 4.9-11

The spiritual body is already existing. I am spirit; I have got my spiritual body, but that body is now covered by this matter.

It is totally absurd to think that the jiva cannot come down to the material world from Goloka Vrndavana due to free will.

 

It is true however that their nitya-siddha body can never fall down.

 

Prabhupada said the spiritual body is within this material body. The spiritual body and the soul are not in Goloka but in the world of Maya.

Edinburgh, July 16, 1972

Your spiritual body is already there within this material body. And in that spiritual body you shall exist along with God. That is the highest perfection of life.

 

Bhagavad-gita 2.13

The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body. So how we are eternal, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:avināśi tu tad viddhi yena

 

Bhagavad-gita 4.9-11

The spiritual body is already existing. I am spirit; I have got my spiritual body, but that body is now covered by this matter.

What about these quotes by Srila Prabhupada saying the spiritual body is not in Goloka?

Edinburgh, July 16, 1972

Your spiritual body is already there within this material body. And in that spiritual body you shall exist along with God. That is the highest perfection of life.

 

Bhagavad-gita 2.13

The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body. So how we are eternal, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:avināśi tu tad viddhi yena

 

Bhagavad-gita 4.9-11

The spiritual body is already existing. I am spirit; I have got my spiritual body, but that body is now covered by this matter.

 

 

When Srinivasa Acharya Prabhu was in Vrindaban he took diksa (mantra initiation) from Sri Gopala Bhatta Goswami. He also accepted Sri Jiva Goswami as his siksa Guru. At that time the writings of the six Goswamis were unknown in Bengal and Sri Jiva Goswami instructed Srinivas Acharya, along with his friends Srila Narottama das Thakura Mahasaya and Sri Syamananda Thakura, to go to Bengal and Orissa and distribute the divine knowledge taught by the six Goswamis.

Sri Jiva empowered Srinivasa Acharya. Srinivasa Acharya was the more senior of the three friends because he was born of a brahmin family. The others were also empowered by Sri Jiva, most specially Syamananda Thakura who received diksa from Hridayananda Goswami but who received detailed siksa from Sri Jiva. Anyway, Srinivasa Acharya in particular was told to preach, to make disciples, to give diksa, everything, by Sri Jiva Goswami, who was his siksa guru.

It is to be noted, however, that the empowerment one may receive from a genuine Guru is conditional. If the person who has been empowered later deviates from what Mahaprabhu taught and becomes a sinner then the empowerment can be withdrawn. Mahaprabhu taught: "O my lord, I don't want followers, wealth or women, I only want devotion - Sri Siksastakam". It is a matter of historical fact that Srila Sridhar Maharaj later rejected several people who he conditionally accepted as Gurus.

According to the Srimad Bhagavatam, the earth was lifted up out of water and life on earth began by the power of Lord Varahadeva. The earth was barren and life gradually developed on Earth after Lord Varahadeva lifted the earth out of the waters of dissolution at the beginning of the Treta Yuga.

People came along and populated the earth after it was formed from solids that came out of the ocean of devastation.

Where were the sages of Satya Yuga when the earth was dissolved? Not on the earth, obviously. They came to earth from some place else. This is the story told in the Puranas. What about the story of Matsya, also, which also happened at the end of satya yuga. The earth was devastated and a NEW EARTH arose within this galaxy in the material plane of existence.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj calls a "brahmanda" a "solar system". Not a universe. The universe is big.... big enough to allow for the gradual physical evolution of all kinds of planets and sentient beings evolving from the water and fish stages right up to the human stage of life.

If this Earth was the ground where a previous Kali yuga happened just 4,320,000 years ago as some people suppose, and if there was a previous kali yuga 4,320,000 before that, and another before that, then where is the evidence of this?

Have archeologists found any hubcaps and remains of ancient nuclear reactors, computers, cellphones etc. in their digs?

Hare Krishna

If everything is prewritten meaning whatever meant to happen will happen then whats karma and fruits of karma ? If someone is destined to be killed by the hands of some other person how come that becomes the sin for the murderer as it was already written in his destiny. Please clarify.

Bhagavad Gita Chapter 18, Verse 13-14.

O mighty-armed Arjuna, learn from Me of the five factors which bring about the accomplishment of all action. These are declared in sankhya philosophy to be the place of action, the performer, the senses, the endeavor, and ultimately Destiny (Daivam - Fate, Destiny or Nature).

 

Bhagavad Gita Chapter 18, Verse 15.

Whatever right or wrong action a man performs by body, mind or speech is caused by these five factors.

 

Bhagavad Gita Chapter 18, Verse 16.

Therefore one who thinks himself the only doer, not considering the five factors, is certainly not very intelligent and cannot see things as they are.

 

People are not entirely responsible for what goes on in their life. It is not that the karma from our past completely shapes our present life. Five factors affect what happens to a person and the performer (the person) is only one part of the jigsaw puzzle. The person is locked in to a system where he is affected by the place (environment), the senses (including the desires he feeels, etc), and the endeavour (cestah).

A person may be doing something that is apparently bad but if his endeavour is good then he will get a different result from someone who is endeavouring for material purposes. As for instance when the sage Parasara was journeying across the Ganga and saw that if he made a baby with the girl driving his boat then the child born of that union would be a great sage (Vyasa was born of that union).

Katha Upanishad 4.4

स्वप्नान्तं जागरितान्तं चोभौ येनानुपश्यति ।

महान्तं विभुमात्मानं मत्वा धीरो न शोचति ॥ ४ ॥

The calm soul, having comprehended the great Lord, the omnipresent Higher Self by Whom one beholds both dreams and the waking state, that calm soul ceases grieving forever.

य इमं मध्वदं वेद आत्मानं जीवमन्तिकात् ।

ईशानं भूतभव्यस्य न ततो विजुगुप्सते ।

एतद्वै तत् ॥ ५ ॥

5. A person who knows that the individual self is not the enjoyer but instead a dependent being, that person sees things as they really are. The individual self is dependent on the Supreme Self, the Lord of what was and what shall be. He who realizes the individual self is dependent on the Lord will never again feel fear. This is That which you seek.

--------

Vishnu causes us to experience dreams and waking states. But someone who has realized Vishnu, he never falls down.

If it is true that souls in Vaikuntha can fall into a false dream state and experience mental pain, then the souls in Vaikuntha must be fearful that they can enter into that sort of suffering.

 

Why do most people have a problem accepting the "fall down" theory, when it can be explained quite easily.

 

Why?

Because Mahaprabhu taught Sanatan Goswami that souls emerge from Brahman and enter Goloka. This is the Teaching of Lord Chaitanya - not the dream/fall theory.

OTOH, the opposite cannot be explained with logic and shastra.

 

Have you studied the shastra?

Look at the teachings of Sri Chaitanyadeva to Sanatan Goswami in Chaitanya Charitamrta. There in that shastra you will find that Mahaprbhu explains, in the Atmarama verse chapter, that souls emerge from Brahman and enter the path of bhakti.

Scriptural evidence is totally in support of what Srila Sridhar Maharaj taught and there is no evidence in scripture at all that souls fall from Vaikuntha and become embroiled in Maya.

As Maharaj Yudhisthira said to Narad Muni "For unflinching devotees of the Lord to fall into this material world is impossible. I cannot believe this." (SB 7.1.34)

 

Every jiva is dreaming this material world, which is similar to a king dreaming he's a his holiness Beggar.

 

In reality, the king is not a Beggar , but the intensity of the dream is so strong that he IS a Beggar for all practical purposes.

 

Likewise, every jiva is nitya siddha, but maya is so powerful he's also a badha jiva (even though, technically, he's not).

 

Obviously, this puts an end to the apparent contradiction as to how a jiva can be both, or whether there can be a fall down. Fall down IS and ISN'T, going by the dream analogy.

 

So simple and easy to understand.

 

Why can't people accept this, instead of fighting over this like petty minded people?

 

Why can't people accept this? Because the fall theory is a NEW theory that was dreamed up rather recently. It is not what the Predecessor Acharyyas taught.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj speaks about free will and raganuga bhakti:

Madhvacarya, in his conception of how one should see the acarya, the spiritual master, could not harmonize Brahma's bewilderment. After all, he is the sampradaya guru, the foremost guru of the tradition, the Brahma-Madhva-sampradaya. So Madhvacarya omitted these two chapters on the illusion of Brahma from Srimad-Bhagavatam. But Mahaprabhu did not. He accepted Sridhara Swami's edition, which is in accordance with the suddhadvaita philosophy of Visnuswami. The Visnuswami sampradaya are followers of ragamarga, spontaneous devotion. Sridhara Swami included those two chapters with his commentary, and Mahaprabhu accepted that, and it is corroborated in Caitanya-caritamrta. Madhvacarya could not accommodate the idea that guru may be seduced. He could not tolerate that guru may not know everything, may not be omniscient, but Mahaprabhu could.

(The Loving Search for the Lost Servant, Chapter 5, final paragraph)

The Guru is not omniscient. As in the example of Brahma stealing the cowherd boys and calves because Brahma momentarily forgot that Krishna is Bhagavan, a Guru may sometimes say things that are wrong.

To give a further example, Madhvacarya himself taught that there are some souls who will never attain liberation and will exist forever in the material world. Which is a totally different idea from what is taught by our Gaudiya Acharyas. Madhvacharya is to be respected as an Acharya but we don't follow his teachings on this point (though we do accept his other teachings notably his refutation of Mayavada). Similary devotees can respect an Acharya who says that souls fall from Vaikuntha but not accept what that Acharya said.

 

1. Causelessmercy - Ebook - The Science of Self Realization - 7

Your spiritual body is already within you, and it will develop as soon as you become free from the contamination of this material existence. That is the aim of human life. People

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/SSR7.htm

</small>

2. Causelessmercy - Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara - March 1, 1975, Atlanta

The spiritual body is already there. Now the matter is there. Now, from matter, you take. You make your body like a dog, like a ant, like a fish, like a tree, like this.Rūpānuga

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/750301r3.atl.htm

</small>

3. Causelessmercy - Ebook - The Science of Self Realization - 8

Your browser does not support scripts. ... What is the purpose of life?? Unfortunately, our difficulty in finding ultimate meaning is compounded by the fact that thousands of conflicting

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/SSR8.htm

</small>

4. Causelessmercy - Lecture at International Student Society - Boston, May 3, 1969

Body is already there. Spiritual body is already there. Just like from Bhagavad-gītā we understand that this body is dress. Just try to understand. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/690503LE.BOS.htm

</small>

5. Causelessmercy - Bhagavad-gita 2.12 - London, August 18, 1973

Because spiritual body is already there. That is eternal. The spirit soul, the spiritual body, that is never vanquished. It was existing in the past, it is existing now, and it

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/730818BG.LON.htm

</small>

6. Causelessmercy - Bhagavad-gita 2.11 - Edinburgh, July 16, 1972

Your spiritual body is already there within this material body. And in that spiritual body you shall exist along with God. That is the highest perfection of life.Revatīnandana:

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/720716BG.EDI.htm

</small>

7. Causelessmercy - Bhagavad-gita 2.13 - Public Lecture With German Translation...

The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body. So how we are eternal, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:avināśi tu tad viddhi yena

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/690910BG.HAM.htm

</small>

8. Causelessmercy - Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.5.31 - Mauritius, October 4, 1975

Spiritual body is already there. How to become free from the bondage of this material body and become free again in spiritual life, that is real problem of life. That they do not

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/751004SB.MAU.htm

</small>

9. Causelessmercy - Bhagavad-gita 4.9-11 - New York, July 25, 1966

He does not get. The spiritual body is already existing. I am spirit; I have got my spiritual body, but that body is now covered by this matter.So by understanding the

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/660725BG.NY.htm

</small>

10. Causelessmercy - Bhagavad-gita 2.14 - Mexico, February 14, 1975

Yes, we ll get spiritual body. Spiritual body is already there; it is simply covered by material body. You have to cure this material body. Then you get your original, spiritual

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/750214BG.MEX.htm

</small>

11. Causelessmercy - Public Speech - Bad Homburg, Germany, June 22, 1974

The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body. So how we are eternal, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:avināśi tu tad viddhi yena

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/740622SP.GER.htm

</small>

12. Causelessmercy - Initiations - Sydney, April 2, 1972

The spiritual body is already there within this material body. So those who are engaged in Yajñeśvara s service, they are giving up this material body and developing a spiritual

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/720402IN.SYD.htm</small>

Sarva gatah (gauragopala) claims that the spiritual bodies are in the spiritual world and that the jiva is a projection from the spiritual body.

These many statements of Srila Prabhupada utterly defeat the foolish idea that the tatastha shakti soul is apart from the spiritual body.

Well done Suchandra.

krsnera svarupa ara sakti traya jnana

yanra haya, tanra nahi krsnete ajnana

cic-chakti svarupa-sakti antaranga-nama

tahara vaibhava ananta vaikunthadi dhama

maya sakti bahiranga jagat-karana

yahara vaibhava ananta brahmandera gana

jiva sakti tatasthakya nahi yara anta

mukhya tina sakti tara vibheda ananta

ei ta' svarupa gana ara tina sakti

sabara asraya krsna, krsne sabara sthiti

One who knows the real feature of Sri Krsna and His three different energies cannot remain ignorant about Him. The cit sakti, which is also called svarupa sakti or antaranga sakti, displays many varied manifestations. It sustains the kingdom of God and its paraphernalia. The external energy, called maya sakti, is the cause of innumerable universes with varied material potencies. The marginal potency, which is between these two, consists of the numberless living beings. These are the three principal energies, which have unlimited categories and subdivisions.

C.C.Adi. 2.96, 101-104

What, for example, might Bhakti Charu Maharaja say about an ISKCON leader who asserts publicly that only one of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's disciples was any good, and that all others became mayavadis or sahajiyas?

Bhakti Caru Svami Initiation Ceremony Lecture in Mauritius

The 2nd consideration is that when you take initiation, you are not only developing a relationship with me. You are actually developing a relationship with the entire society of ISKCON. You are becoming a part of a family. This International Society for Krsna Consciousness has its' temples, its' line of authority, and on top of everything and everyone there is Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada has actually made the perfect arrangement through ISKCON, through his books, and through all the other arrangements that His Divine Grace has made. So if anyone takes shelter of this arrangement of Srila Prabhupada, he will undoubtedly make spiritual advancement and will eventually go back home, back to Godhead. So even though you may not have an ongoing regular relationship or connection with me, still your spiritual life is safe as long as you remain in ISKCON. If you remain within ISKCON, you will be under the protection of Srila Prabhupada's lotus feet.To remain in ISKCON means to be connected to the temple, to be favorably disposed to the devotees as well as to the authority structure of ISKCON, namely the temples, the temple devotees, the temple president, and the senior devotees of this area, the GBC, and other gurus.

 

To remain in ISKCON means to be ... favorably disposed to ... the authority structure of ISKCON

If a leader says something you don't like... don't disagree.

Good point