Hari Narayana

I still disagree with that. Firstly the point is one should spend sometime there before making some analysis that may be incorrect. From most people I've met they have the least guru sectarian mentality, As long as people know how to respect vaishnavas people are welcomed, no one has to declare someone pure that would be a foolish mentality there, that may occur elsewhere but havent seen it at chowpatty, they dont even talk about guru in that way,The diciples that I met of RNS do not even talk about him and encourage othes not to speak about him in a way that will make people feel uncomfortable, whats in their heart remains personal to them, and respect and encourage other peoples faith in the way they feel comfortable. Radhanatha swami's emphasis is of nice vaishnava dealings and being a servent.

I am surprised. This sounds idealistic!

Its not Prabhupadas movement anymore, and I grew up in ISKCON my whole life! 20 years! Why do you think SO MANY of Srila Prabhupadas disciples are with him? Look at Jadurani (now, Syamarani)... And if it wasn't for the freakin' GBC putting pressure on all the other ISKCON Sannyasis who were going to him in the 90s maybe some more of ISKCON would be happier and full of Bhakti. He's changed so many peoples lives, why not yours? You have kids who are chanting more rounds every day then most of the iskcon followers! Amazing!

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Other's weakness cannot become one's strength. As far as the path of spiritual advancement is concerned, it works with how much absorption one invovles in his spritual practices with determination. From that one developes purity and empowerment to preach harinama. There is no use in pointing out the mistakes in another camp to try to attract people to one's own camp. It doesn't work that way. And even if it does, it will not last longer.

Someone with a changing IP address voted 100 times for the "ISKCON Guru's liberated" option, so the results are meaningless now. Next time we will only allow registered members to vote.

That shows how someone is fanatic. If he wants to learn it the hard way, who can save him?

This statement is false. I'stayed in chowpatty a couple of years ago, and I personally know of at least one devotee who from the begining took initiation from another guru and and made this very clear to me and everyone and he has been cared for by the ashram and now is a bramhachari there. I dont know why people love to see the externals and make their big big conclusions about everything and everyone, more arrogance/ignorance.

The point is not about just taking initiation from another Guru. The actual point is if the person doesn't believe RNS as a pure devotee but still wants to stay there or associate with the devotees there, will he be encouraged? Most likely he will not be. I think that was the point Jndas prabhu was trying to make here.

This is what they are fed from when they join ISKCON. It is an institutional system where new recruits are trained in the belief that the GBC approved gurus are as good as God. When you are new and you go to a temple, and you see all the temple devotees worshipping Guru X every single day with the same things that they worship God, then it is only natural to conclude that Guru X is a liberated person. In South India this is a fact of ISKCON. Everyone is taught that the GURU is as good as God. The real fault lies in these people who know they are not liberated, but allow people to project them as liberated souls..

Yes. What Jndas says is very true. I have been living in South India for the past 15 years since my introduction to ISKCON. If someone doesnt believe in the GURU the temple authorities follow, that person will be gradually eliminated. They authorities never say it openly. But by behavioral actions the message is communicated to the person.

Why so much? Even if a follower/disciple of Guru X comes to a temple or happpens to live in a temple where the temple authorities follow Guru Y, (both Guru X and Guru Y are most respected in ISKCON), the Guru Y followers try to give the same message to the follower of Guru X. This follower/disciple will not be given independence to preach or cultivate the congregation. Guess what the fear is? The temple authorities believe, "If this guy is allowed to preach and cultivate, he will get all his cultivates to believe in his Guru rather than our Guru. If it happens then we can't control the devotees according to our whims!"

Another example, in Mumbai, everyone is systematically taught that Radhanath Maharaja is a pure devotee and as good as God. These are just facts of ISKCON today. There is absolutely no room or allowance for anyone to believe anything else while still being allowed to participate within ISKCON.

Very True. If someone doesnt believe in Radhanatha Maharaja as a pure devotee or doesnt want to take RNS as guru, and if his intentions are known to the followers of RNS, do you think they will allow this person and encourage him in thier Chowpatty temple?

"I wish that each and every Branch shall keep their independent identity and cooperate keeping the Acarya in the centre. On this principle we can open any number of Branches all over the world. The Ramakrishna mission works on this principle and thus as organization they have done wonderfully." - Srila Prabhupada's letter to Kirtanananda, February 11, 1967

ISKCON is still far far away from this concept desired by Srila Prabhupada. The GBC may proclaim that they follow Prabhupada. But the reality is different. If one gets to the grass roots in ISKCON (South India), this pulse can be easily felt.