nav

Thanx for the link

Nice, really good

Arjuna

Please could you tell me with reference where Gunatit parampara is within the scriptures of Swaminarayan Sampraday? Also how saints get their diksa with in scriptures, where Gunatitanand Swami is stated as Akshar clearly. Just as clear as Gopalanand Swami is stated as Akshar in the scriptures bh Swaminarayan Bhagwan.

Hello Daas ka Daas,

You were the one who wrote previously that you were in BAPS since child hood and you left BAPS just because the senior saints of BAPS were not able to answer your questions. I think you should go back and look at the answer to your post and your questions. I made it very clear to you with refernces. You didnt relply back to my post after that. I dont understand how many times will you go round and round, I have no idea why are you doing this.

Any ways I will answer it again,

Firstly About Gunatitanand Swami,

Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj wrote in Kirtan Kaustubhmala

His exact words in it are:

"Aksharmurti Gunatitanand Swami, Tene Aapya vartman,

Pote paline pachi palavya, Janne dai ghanu Gnan....."

Here when he says Aksharmurti Gunatitanand Swami then it means Akshar Murtimaan and not a Brahmswarup Saint but Brahman himself. This book abt maharaj written by Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj was printed by Kothari Hathibhai Nanajibhai in 1912 AD at Mumbai by your Management. Please do refer it, If I am wrong pease state what is written in there.

Now in Harililakalpataru, Achintyanand Brahmachari (Who was not from BAPS) does the Stuti of Gunatitanand Swami as Akshar:

Here what it states

"Yadromavivare leena Andanam kotayah Pruthak|

Tadhaksharam Gunatitam Gunatitam Namamyaham||"

In Brief it means: In whose every pore Infinite Brahmands stay different from each other, that Akshar who is Gunatit(above three Gunas), I bow down to that Gunatit(Gunatitanand Swami) .

When Maharaj gave diksha to Gunatitanand Swami in Dabhan, that description in Harililakalpataru as follows:

"Muljisharma Dikshaam Dadanasya prajayate|

Bhuyonmetra Samanando Tato Dhamaksharam Sa Me||

Mukteyranantayha saakam Me Yatrakhandtayoshyate|

Urdhvobhagarhitam Tanmulam Dhaam Chaksharam||

Harileelakalpataru: 7th Skand, 17th Adhyaya

It means: Mulji Akshar who is my murtimaan Akshardhaam, which is dimensionless, Where I stay with my infinite Muktas, I am very happy to give him diksha today.

If this sholka means something else then please do give me the real meaning. You say Nishkulanand Swami stated Gopalanand Swami as Akshar, Please do provide the reference???. Look at the Junagadh Mandir -Sabha Gruh and Bhandar has Akshar Purushottam murtis. Jetpur Swaminarayan Mandir, Panchala Swaminarayan Mandir, Faneni Swaminarayan Mandir, Mendarda, Vekri, Kaalsari, Bhundari, Rajkot,Verawad, Manavadar and Gondal Swaminarayan Mandirs, all under the Jurisdiction of Acharya has Akshar Purushottam murtis (or say photo or painting).Now you cant say that this doesnt exist or BAPS went into the Mandirs and installed it. I have sited them my self and have the pictures as well. I dont know the process to upload the pics on this forum. All of them and a few other mandirs state clearly beneath the Photos as Mul Akshar Gunatitanand Swami.

Maharaj in Vadtal 5 clearly states that "If you spend 5 rupees for god then you should spend 5 rupees for his Uttam Bhakta as well......" He also said-"Jetlu Raja nu rajya etluj Rani nu Raj..." It doesnt mean that Queen replaces the King. Gadhada-I-68 states:"Eight types of Murtis where god resides and the ninth is the Sant" Gunanatitanand Swami is such Sant and Uttam Bhakta. Akshar is Akshar since Anadi but the Akshar mukts have done the Bhakti of ParaBrahman and attained such State. So, Akshar is the Devotee since Anadi i.e., Time immemorial. Read Loya 12, Maharaj Clearly says that Uttam NIrvikalp Nishachay is attained only by reaching a state equvivalent to that of Aksharbrahman. It clearly means that Akshar's Bhakti and NIshachay is not comparable with any of the Jivas including Acharya Maharaj.

Now Maharaj said in Shikshapatri that Laxmi with narayan is called Laxminarayan, Nar and Narayan is called Narnarayan etc..And in Shikshapatri Shlok 111, Maharaj clearly states that Radha, Laxmi etc.. are Bhagwan's Bhaktas who somtimes are next to him or sometimes reside in the body. Now at that time every one knew abt Laxminarayan, Narnarayan etc He was trying to hint something else. In shloka 203 Mahraj says that he has written this shikshapatri in brief and for more knowledge refer to the Sampraday Scriptures.

The Most Authentic Scripture after Shikshapatri(Written by Maharaj) is Vachanamrut(Words Spoken by Maharaj). From Vachanamrut Gad-I-41, Maharaj clearly states that he doesnt reside in Prakrutipurush as much as he resides in Akshar. Prakrutipurush is the first Tatva for creation (Khagol Bhugol, Gad-I-41, Gad-II-31 etc..), It means it is only Purushottam Narayan above AksharBrahman and nobody else and also Akshar is above Maya with ParaBrahman since Anadi. Therefore Akshar is the Sarva Sreshta and Uttam Bhakta Of Maharaj. It means all the Muktas, Prakrutipurush, Pradhanpurush, Viratpurush,all Avatars and gods, and Jivas do not Understand the Swarup of Maharaj as much as Akshar does. There for to know the Paripurna Mahima and possess complete Swarup Nishta, Akshar or Mahraj himself is required (loya12). Thus from Shikshapatri when Maharaj says abt Knowing the Avatars along with their Uttambhaktas, He means to say to himself along with his Uttam Bhakta. And also in Vachanamrut Gad -III-38,Maharaj says that we should bow down to Avatars but Upasana should be done only of the Pragat Bhagwan and also in Loya-11 he says that we shouldnt do the Dhyan of Paroksh Avatars. Now in Shikshapatri he says to sing the glory of Radha Krishna but in Vachanamrut he stresses on not doing the Upasana of Paroksh Avatars. So, It is clear that Maharaj doesn't want us to do the Bhakti of Radha Krishna or Narnarayan but he wants us to his bhakti along with his Uttam Bhakta as people have done in past of Laxminarayan etc..

Talking about Guru Parampara, the gurus are no different but Akshar Brahman himself. Its just the outer appearance is changing but the entity remains Akshar, because in order to attain Brahmic State one requires Brahman himself. How do we know that? well his vartan, his qualities and his Bhakti are just not comparable to any body. It was Gunatitanand Swami who introduced Bhagatji Maharaj, and it was Bhagatji Maharaj who introduced Shastriji Maharaj ....etc.

You talk about Guru Parampara being in Scriptures, Where in Scriptures does it say about that Moksha is through Acharya Maharaj. Maharaj in Vachanamrut always uses Sant or Bhakta or Satpurush (Gad I-27, Gad-II-51..) to be the door for Liberation. The Guru of BAPS is that Satpurush or Sant or Bhakta.

I will definitely answer more, But before that you now state Where does Nishkulanand Swami State Gopalanand Swami as Akshar?????

If he says Gopalanand Swami to be Akshar then why dont you guys install Gopalanand Swami beside Maharaj just like Laxmi Narayan or Nar Narayan????

I think you yourself are confused, First answer these questions??

Jai Swaminarayan

You have put a great post. Very useful and very good efforts.

 

Better to do such work then to keep on commenting about each other and try to prove that what we say is only the right thing.

 

SWaminarayan bahgwan have done the great social work. and i think baps is doing the same at a great level. Of course all others also doing the same but baps appears to be more systematic and leadership of pramukh swami is great. he is a very genuine, simple, transperant, reliable and what not type of man.

 

what is shastra and scripturs? so far as hindus are concerned all ends with vedas. god will be with you only if you have love for him in your within.

 

i want to get more clarification about the akshar purshottam sidhant. some one may please presnet it in a nice way so that even layman can understand it.

 

jai swaminarayan.

Hi there,

Please feel free to ask anything about Akshar Purushottam Upasana, Can help you clarify with references. If possible you can read some of my old posts.

Cheers

Jai Swaminarayan

First of all I do not HATE BAPS. Nor do I like them. I just do not agree with them. When I state truth according to the Swaminarayan scriptures many do not like this and thus they get defensive. Secondly if you read Sadguru Gopalanand Swamis Vato, He clearly describes what Avgun is and what avgun isn’t. He states to reveal something about something or somebody as its is with firm truth as confirmed by the scriptures, is not avgun. Also just chanting alone does not mean anything. It gives only little punya for those who do not follow the Upasna and Agna prescribed by Shriji Maharaj. If I took such avgun I would by now fall from this oath of Satsang whereas truth is im advancing very greatly. I also hope you do too.

It can be clearly seen that you have not read the Scriptures of the Sampraday for yourself and instead you have just listened to your friend like you have stated. Well tell your friend to open his eyes to such scriptures. If this was the case that just by saying Swaminarayan you can gain Moksh then the whole world would get moksh as so many know His name yet carry on doing their everyday life. Eating meat, looting, not believing in God. Secondly if it was the case that anybody can start up a cult just chanting Swaminarayan and following the Sampraday how they think is right. Then what was the whole point of Agna and Upasna? Im relaxed by the way but it seems, to be too relaxed in faith, is not right. Nor is any other sort of compromising in a faith.

 

As you say, you have read all my post then you will have also read my post about how these scandals were disastrous. However these were individual so called sadhu who were doing such were all excommunicated. They are serving a sentence in jail, which is good. As my point being that Swaminarayan Bhagwan did not instruct for His Sadhu’s to do such and if they have been doing such they should be clearly excommunicated and given to the police. We do not back them up. Its zero tolerance when it comes to Agna and Upasna my friend.

This is the other thing, if I discuss the Scriptures then the Agna and Upasna comes out once again. All is clear in the scriptures. You talk of the Vachnamrut but then again it comes to the point where why followers of BAPS do not believe certain things. Why they turn a blind eye to them. At the end of the day of you want to please Bhagwan and eternally serve Him then all Vachnamrut should be followed and at least understood. Same goes for all the scriptures. For me its more about teaching people as well as learning myself. All should be aware of true Agna and Upasna. They are the winds of the Swaminarayan Sampraday. Its not something which should be disregarded.

By the way if you believe in BAPS its not good for you. I know you want to make it all lovey dovey and as though all will attain Aksgardham. But truth is only if you leave your inner enemies like Kaam, krodh and ALSO follow true Satsang as it is (by following Mahrajs agna) can one attain Shriji Maharaj. The scriptures clearly show this.

May Swaminarayan Bhagwan shower His blessings upon you so you may see it as it is. My many Dandvats to you,

Jay Swaminarayan.

This is the other thing, if I discuss the Scriptures then the Agna and Upasna comes out once again. All is clear in the scriptures. You talk of the Vachnamrut but then again it comes to the point where why followers of BAPS do not believe certain things. Why they turn a blind eye to them. At the end of the day of you want to please Bhagwan and eternally serve Him then all Vachnamrut should be followed and at least understood. Same goes for all the scriptures. For me its more about teaching people as well as learning myself. All should be aware of true Agna and Upasna. They are the winds of the Swaminarayan Sampraday. Its not something which should be disregarded.

 

Why dont you dicuss the scriptures and Show what true Agna and Upasana are?? Dont just keep advising people, You said we dont understand Vachanamrut. What exactly according to you we dont understand???? Please come up with references rather that just talking ???

Jai Swaminarayan,

Hey Dude Why do you feel that BAPS is not following the scriptures??? Clarify yourself and we can answer.

Do not be surprised by the title, I am a devout hindu and had an opportunity to get to know the swaminarayan sect from closely, as two of my close acquaitance are swaminarayan.I have been to their satsang sabhas, programme etc.I have a high respect for the enormous amount of Good work which the sect is doing and esepcially pramukh swami maharaj but there are couple of philosophical issue which stops me from "converting" to swaminarayan....

I am presenting it below :

 

1) Swaminarayan sect believes that only their god (Lord swaminarayan) is the only God who can give you moksha.i have seen many people who were worshipping usual hindu gods from generations and after convering the "Swaminarayan" you wont find a single hindu god/goddess picture in their home.Isnt this like following christianity or islam....

 

2) They say that the "Swaminarayan" mantra is the most powerful shloka in the world, even their book about bhajans (Kirtanvaali) mentions somewhere that the mantra is even superior then Gayatri mantra....

Comeon ....

 

3) On one side the swaminarayan devotees take pride in hindu heritage but the practices are such that it seems "Swaminarayan" is a whole together different religion and whenever you ask any follower which religion you follow they will say "We are swaminarayan".

 

4) Swaminaryan saints would only eat if the food is prepared by a "Brahmin"..are you kidding me..which centure are we living in ?.

 

5) I was recently watching the official DVD of Akshardham temple (Its really a wonderful place ) and all through the DVD they have not shown any video/shots of the "Ganpati" or "Radha krishna" murti...only one line of verbal that the temple also has the murti of so and so god....

 

I have many other points also..but later...again..I do not have any negative feelings, I have and would always have high respect for the "swaminarayan" religion but its some of these points which are standing as a HUGE wall in front of me....

btw..I have placed a small picture of Pramukh swami" in our temple and i do pray to him along with other "Hnidu gods"...

Hello my friend,

I read this post of yours and thought to give you some points about Swaminarayan:

1) Swaminarayan is not a separate religion, It belongs to Vedic Hindu religion.

2)Proper Swaminarayan followers who have attained a Staunch faith that, Lord Swaminarayan is the ParaBrahman and source of all incarnations. It is Lord Swaminarayan who has explained that there are 5 Entites: Jivas,Ishwaras,Maya,Brahman and ParaBrahman, They are never created, they exist since time immemorial(Anadi), except Maya. There are infinite Jivas and infinite Ishwaras. He said that Jivas and Ishwaras are all under Maya since existance. Only two entities remain above Maya i.e., Brahman and ParaBrahman, they have never been in contact with Maya. All Jivas, Ishwaras, Maya and Brahman are all dependent on ParaBrahman but ParaBrahman is all independent. That ParaBahman is Lord Swaminarayan who descended on this earth by his free will. He is not an incarnation of anyone, he himself is the source of incarnation. Realising oneness with Brahman we have to do the Bhakti of ParaBrahman, that is the Basic concept. So if we have the refuge of ParaBrahman purushottam narayan why need to pray to other gods. It is not that we disrespect them, we always bow down to every god and all incarnations but our faith and Pativrata Bhakti is towards Lord Swaminarayan.

His abode is Akshardhaam which is above maya. Once a Jiva or Ishwara attaining Brahmic state reaches Akshardhaam, there is no returning for him into Maya of Birth and Death.

The followers of Raam Bhagwaan would always talk about Raam Bhagwaan in their pravachans, It doesnt mean that they are insulting other gods. They respect every one but follow their choicest Bhagwaan. Same with Krishna Bhagwaan Disciples. When they do the Katha on Bhagwad or Gita, they will hardly refer to any other god other than Krishna. It is their Bhakti.

Similarly the Akshardhaam monument represents the abode of Lord Swaminaryan. Like Krishna Bhagwan resides in Golok and Raam Bhagwaan resides in Vaikunth, Similarly it is Bhagwaan Swaminarayan who resides in Akshardhaam. But still big murtis of RadhaKrishna, Raam-sita etc are installed in the main monument.

The whole world will be watching the DVD, it is not that they have insulted Radha Krishna Bhagwaan, its just that they want people to know about Lord Swaminarayan. There are not many people who know much about Swaminarayan, thats why they were just concentrating on him. There cannot be any misbehaviour towards any Avatars in BAPS.

It is true that they eat the food cooked by Brahmin just because it is a Strict instruction of Lord Swaminarayan to his Sadhus. It is just that they are maintaining purity by not eating whenever and whatever. It is not that everyone cooks food with purity, Thats why Lord Swaminaryan said to eat the food cooked by Brahmins. They eat food cooked by people other than Brahmins but its a whole different process to cook food for Saints i.e., you have make sure abt the purity, you cannot use direct water when you cook for them and few more things like that.

It is out of the Nishta or the conviction they say that they are following Swaminarayan religion. But truly it is a Proper Hindu Religion. Look at niyams, they are not new. Ashtang Brahmacharaya is mentioned in Daksha Smriti, Aarti, thaal, Puja and every thing is just like a Hindu. It is a Hindu religion.

Even I have joined BAPS recently, I am basically from South. Its a beautiful Organisation with a Bhagwad Satpurush as its Guru and Swaminarayan Bhagwan as its Choicest god.

Any more Questions, feel free to ask. Even I had these doubts, We willtry our best to answer

Jai Swaminarayan

<!-- / message -->

How foolish of you. Typical BAPS follower, always narrows it down to envy. Mate if i had Irsha i wouldnt follow what i do, i would join you. But this is not the case i dont envy you. In case i pity you guys. Into thinking how you will attain Moksh by doing Vachan droh of Bhagwan Swaminarayan and displeasing Him in this manner..

 

Also you are very keen on referncing by 'cherry picking' what you like but never answer to the post that have been referenced about Agna and Upasna. You like to pick out what you think is right. And the rest of it you disregard. BAPS is like the blind leading the blind. That is exactly what it is.

 

Also it isnt about "getting up our asses and helping the world". This is about becomming an Ekantik Bhakt. Which you have no scope for. BAPS change Scriptures, Shlokas, stotras like the Janmangal, Artis and even the main Precepts and siddhants. Why should we envy such?? How foolish of you to think such.

 

Also in terms of being international.. Satsang in the UK and Africa first started by Kutchi Haribhaktos under NAr Narayan Dev MAndir under Bhuj- Amdavad Gadi. USA satsang was established by ISSO (International Satsang Swaminarayan Organisation- under Amdavad and Vadtal Gadi) Not only that but it is flourishing day by day.

 

You backlash with your own views by stating stuff like your envious etc. But you never reply with references and quotes from the Shastras about Agna, Upasna or the scriptures views nor the refuge of the Dharmvansh.

Jai Swaminarayan

You Said:

"Into thinking how you will attain Moksh by doing Vachan droh of Bhagwan Swaminarayan and displeasing Him in this manner.. "

Please can you explain, What kind of VACHAN DROH has BAPS done. In What way is it displeasing Maharaj ????? Please prove what you have said above.

You said that your post regarding Agna and Upasana has been never answered?? Please refer me those posts, Will try and Answer them.

Please do mention references of what you have just mentioned above abt BAPS. And also Why is their no scope for a BAPS satsangi to become Ekantik Bhakta. Please support your comments with proper explaination and references before asking others refernces.

Jai Swaminarayan

ANYONE WHO WORSHIPS A MAN AS GOD IS TRUELY LOST!

Swaminayaran is NOT a God. People have falsly elevated him and worshiped him as a God. He was a guru and should be given the respect of one, but not that of God.

Dont just talk with out any references. You say Lord Swaminarayan in not GOD, Prove it. You are no legend from history that we should accept your words.

Jai Swaminarayan

Do not be surprised by the title, I am a devout hindu and had an opportunity to get to know the swaminarayan sect from closely, as two of my close acquaitance are swaminarayan.I have been to their satsang sabhas, programme etc.I have a high respect for the enormous amount of Good work which the sect is doing and esepcially pramukh swami maharaj but there are couple of philosophical issue which stops me from "converting" to swaminarayan....

I am presenting it below :

 

1) Swaminarayan sect believes that only their god (Lord swaminarayan) is the only God who can give you moksha.i have seen many people who were worshipping usual hindu gods from generations and after convering the "Swaminarayan" you wont find a single hindu god/goddess picture in their home.Isnt this like following christianity or islam....

 

2) They say that the "Swaminarayan" mantra is the most powerful shloka in the world, even their book about bhajans (Kirtanvaali) mentions somewhere that the mantra is even superior then Gayatri mantra....

Comeon ....

 

3) On one side the swaminarayan devotees take pride in hindu heritage but the practices are such that it seems "Swaminarayan" is a whole together different religion and whenever you ask any follower which religion you follow they will say "We are swaminarayan".

 

4) Swaminaryan saints would only eat if the food is prepared by a "Brahmin"..are you kidding me..which centure are we living in ?.

 

5) I was recently watching the official DVD of Akshardham temple (Its really a wonderful place ) and all through the DVD they have not shown any video/shots of the "Ganpati" or "Radha krishna" murti...only one line of verbal that the temple also has the murti of so and so god....

 

I have many other points also..but later...again..I do not have any negative feelings, I have and would always have high respect for the "swaminarayan" religion but its some of these points which are standing as a HUGE wall in front of me....

btw..I have placed a small picture of Pramukh swami" in our temple and i do pray to him along with other "Hnidu gods"...

Hello my friend,

I read this post of yours and thought to give you some points about Swaminarayan:

1) Swaminarayan is not a separate religion, It belongs to Vedic Hindu religion.

2)Proper Swaminarayan followers who have attained a Staunch faith that, Lord Swaminarayan is the ParaBrahman and source of all incarnations. It is Lord Swaminarayan who has explained that there are 5 Entites: Jivas,Ishwaras,Maya,Brahman and ParaBrahman, They are never created, they exist since time immemorial(Anadi), except Maya. There are infinite Jivas and infinite Ishwaras. He said that Jivas and Ishwaras are all under Maya since existance. Only two entities remain above Maya i.e., Brahman and ParaBrahman, they have never been in contact with Maya. All Jivas, Ishwaras, Maya and Brahman are all dependent on ParaBrahman but ParaBrahman is all independent. That ParaBahman is Lord Swaminarayan who descended on this earth by his free will. He is not an incarnation of anyone, he himself is the source of incarnation. Realising oneness with Brahman we have to do the Bhakti of ParaBrahman, that is the Basic concept. So if we have the refuge of ParaBrahman purushottam narayan why need to pray to other gods. It is not that we disrespect them, we always bow down to every god and all incarnations but our faith and Pativrata Bhakti is towards Lord Swaminarayan.

His abode is Akshardhaam which is above maya. Once a Jiva or Ishwara attaining Brahmic state reaches Akshardhaam, there is no returning for him into Maya of Birth and Death.

The followers of Raam Bhagwaan would always talk about Raam Bhagwaan in their pravachans, It doesnt mean that they are insulting other gods. They respect every one but follow their choicest Bhagwaan. Same with Krishna Bhagwaan Disciples. When they do the Katha on Bhagwad or Gita, they will hardly refer to any other god other than Krishna. It is their Bhakti.

Similarly the Akshardhaam monument represents the abode of Lord Swaminaryan. Like Krishna Bhagwan resides in Golok and Raam Bhagwaan resides in Vaikunth, Similarly it is Bhagwaan Swaminarayan who resides in Akshardhaam. But still big murtis of RadhaKrishna, Raam-sita etc are installed in the main monument.

The whole world will be watching the DVD, it is not that they have insulted Radha Krishna Bhagwaan, its just that they want people to know about Lord Swaminarayan. There are not many people who know much about Swaminarayan, thats why they were just concentrating on him. There cannot be any misbehaviour towards any Avatars in BAPS.

It is true that they eat the food cooked by Brahmin just because it is a Strict instruction of Lord Swaminarayan to his Sadhus. It is just that they are maintaining purity by not eating whenever and whatever. It is not that everyone cooks food with purity, Thats why Lord Swaminaryan said to eat the food cooked by Brahmins. They eat food cooked by people other than Brahmins but its a whole different process to cook food for Saints i.e., you have make sure abt the purity, you cannot use direct water when you cook for them and few more things like that.

It is out of the Nishta or the conviction they say that they are following Swaminarayan religion. But truly it is a Proper Hindu Religion. Look at niyams, they are not new. Ashtang Brahmacharaya is mentioned in Daksha Smriti, Aarti, thaal, Puja and every thing is just like a Hindu. It is a Hindu religion.

Even I have joined BAPS recently, I am basically from South. Its a beautiful Organisation with a Bhagwad Satpurush as its Guru and Swaminarayan Bhagwan as its Choicest god.

Any more Questions, feel free to ask. Even I had these doubts, We willtry our best to answer

Jai Swaminarayan

Continuing my previous post:

You said:

Also where is the reference of Shirji Maharaj stating about samagam of Swami in Junagadh to Paramhans?

Purushottam Prakash, Prakran 32:

"Sunder Mandir Karavyu....

....Vadi Sant ne Aapi Agna re, Rehavu nahi Ahiya Aavya vina re,

Varsovaras Ek <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Maas</st1:place> , Karvo aa Mandima Nivaas re."

Maharaj then says to Gopalanand Swami also to go to Junagagh once every year and do samagam of Gunatitanand Swami.

Please explain to me that How the above mentioned references are all wrong??? They show that Gunatitanand Swami is Mul Akshar.

There are many prasangs where Maharaj has introduced Gunatitanand Swami as Akshardhaam in the Jeevan Charitra. If I give any of those refernces then you would say that BAPS has changed the scriptures. Thats why I have given the above references.

Now when you talk about Shastriji Maharaj, the acharya present then was Laxmi Prasad Maharaj. Read about his life, He was a Rajasik person and not at all pure in his life. Thats why he had to be removed from the Gadi. Still Shastriji Maharaj asked for permission just to leave Vadtal. He had to leave vadtal as it came upon to his life. He didnt leave vadtal with heaps of gold or Money. He left without a single penny and with just 5 sadhus with him. How can anyone with out any resources built such a big Mandir in Bochasan, It was the Akshar Purushottam Gnan which was explained to the people and then they helped build the Mandir. The Pratishta of Murtis is done through Vedic Mantras, If Acharya comes to it its very good, If he doesn't come, Mahraj's siddhant doesn't go false. Even Acharya was given initiation by <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">santos</st1:City></st1:place>. We are ready to take diksha from Acharya but Maharaj and his Siddhant comes first. Acharyas do not exist since Anadi but Akshar Brahman does and If Akshar and Prushottam exist above Maya since Anadi then how can you say that Akshar Purushottam sidhhant is false.

Now you said that in Shikshapatri Maharaj says that Murtis installed by Acharya should only be worshiped. But Mahraj has also mentioned the NIyams of Acharya in the Shikshapatri What about them?? Just because Laxmi prasad ji Maharaj didnt go to do Bocahsan Murti pratishta you said Shastriji Maharaj did something considered out of the fellowship. During Shastriji Mahraj's time, On one side it is Clear Akshar Purushottam Upasana Mandir (Bochasan) and on the other side is the Rajoguni Acharya Maharaj, Which side do you think Mahraj is on. If you still think whatever the Acharya does shouldnt be seen and just follow him Blindly then how do you expect to reach Akshardhaam. If Raghuvirji Maaharaj would have done anything like Laxmiprasad ji Maharaj then Saints would never have considered his Pratishta. In Vachanamrut Gad-I-38, Maharaj says that I do not have any Sneh or attachment towards my Sagasambandhi(his own relations). But if one has Bhakti and Seva Bhaav for Maharaj then he says that he Likes them. In vadtal-11 Maharaj says that if Bhagwan is not present on earth then one should take the Aashro of such SADHU or Bhagwan's Murti. Shastriji Mahraj was such a Brahmaswaroop Sadhu with Sampurn Tyag of Stree Purush. What can he do if no body had the sense to Understand Maharaj's principle. He did what Maharaj wanted to do i.e. to install Maharaj with Akshar. This understanding of Akshar purushottam came from Gunatitanand Swami himself. Bhagatji Maharaj had attained such a state of Gunatit from Gunatitanand Swami.

When Maharaj says that every one should respect Acharya and accept the deities installed only him or he is present through the Acharya, It is just that no body leaves this Satsang and go into Paroksh Bhagwan. Thats why Maharaj said that. If Maharaj said he is present through Acharyas then What abt some of the Acharyas who have broken the niyams of Maharaj and acted against panch vartaman. He cant br present through them. Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj, Acharaya Vihari Lal ji Maharaj and few other Acharyas were true Acharyas, Even they accepted Gunatitanand Swami as Mul Akshar, It was the Satsang Samaj that couldnt handle it.

You Said:

"What makes you think that only a Sadhu is a sant? A sant is he who possesses 32 qualities. Now this can be a Grahast or a Sanyasi. You state many foolish things"

I never said only the Sadhu is an Ekantik Bhakta. Even Gruhast can be a Sant as you mentioned the examples of Janak raja and Vedvyas. It is very nice to hear that you have such samjan for Acharya Maharaj. Even I have read about Acharyas, I respect them too. But not even if they break Maharaj's Agnas.

But Based on this statement you cannot say that Acharya is the Sant What Maharaj refered in Vachanamrut. Just think about the Satsang Samaj when Mahraj was present on the earth and look at it now. You mentioned a few <st1:City w:st="on">Santos</st1:City> names who are staunch in their niyams but why is it only a few <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">santos</st1:City></st1:place> today?? Why is anybody not able to take any action about people not following the niyam Dharma, What happened to the awareness?? I went to the NarNarayan Mandir in Amdavad when I went to <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> last year. They still say NarNarayan dev ki Jai first and then Maharaj's Jai. What happenend to the Sarvopari Nishta in Maharaj??

As you said, you can find hundreds of saints who are still stanch like those of Bhuj but you cannot say that all of those are like the Sant, Maharaj refers in Vachanamrut. There is only one akshar and only one Satpurush and only One Pramukh Swami Mahraj.

The Sant in the Vachanamrut Maharaj speaks abt is Akshar Brahman. The Description in Gad I-27, when you compare it to Loya 12, Vadtal-11, Madya-41 etc.. you can understand how their is a difference in Maharaj's presence in different tatvas as explained above.

The Brahmic state Maharaj talks about in Vachanamrut can be attained through a Brahmaswaroop Sant or by Maharaj himself. Jaga Swami, Pragji Bhakta, Balmukund Swami etc had attained such state through the Samagam of Gunatitanand Swami and not through Acharaya.

The saints you have spoken about can be observing every niyam of Maharaj, they might become nirvasnik through following those niyams but the Satpurush or Akshar or the Sant is Nirlep since Anadi. He doesnt have any vasana or dosh in him at all. That is why he is the Moksh nu Dwar. There is no way to enter Akshardham without attaing the Brahmic state. No where in the Sampraday Scriptures does Maharaj state that you becaome Ekantik through the samagam of Acharya, that you become Nirvasnik through Acharya, that you can attain the Uttam Nirvikalp sthiti and Sarvopari Swaroop nishtha through Acharya, He always mentions it to be the Sant or Sadhu or Bhakta. In Vadtal 5 Mahraj says that we should do the Mansi of Bhagwaan along with his Bhakta. So does he mean that to be the Acharya??.

Maharaj spoke about Acharya in so many places, As you said in Purushottam Prakash, Desh Vibhag no Lekh, Vachanamrut etc.. Then at that time if Maharaj meant that the Acharya is the Bhakta or Sant (referring to Vachanamrut) then why did he also say about the Sant separately? Why didnt Nishkulanand Swami write any such thing about Acharya as he wrote about Sant? Why did Acharya Raghuvirji Mahraj and Viharilalji Mahraj mentioned Gunatitanand Swami as Akshar Murti, if they themselves were his Uttam Bhaktas or the Sant What Mahraj says in Vachanamrut?? Through Vachanamrut even you will have to accept that there is no one other like Akshar Brahman. If Acharya Mahraj were the Sant then what about the Akshar who doesnt even have any sansarg of Maya??

It shows that Gadis were established to look after the Satsang and the Mandirs. It is just for the people to have respect towards Acharya, Maharaj said their Mahima.

You used the word "QUALIFY" to attain Brahm Bhaav. Their is no link between Acharya and Becoming Brahmarup. Even though Acharya was present, Many <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">santos</st1:City></st1:place> who used to do Vicharan in villages used to initiate villagers into Satsang Fellowship. Not every one was taken to Acharya. Even when Mahraj was present not every one was intiated into Satsang by Maharaj. If you are talking about the Sadhu Diksha then Pramukh Swami is the Ekantik, Akshar Brahman Sant as in Vachanamrut. Getting Diksha from him equvivalent to that of from Maharaj. <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Santos</st1:City></st1:place> after diksha go to Vadtal out of respect for Maharaj and his prasadi mandirs.

In BAPS it is Maharaj doing the Pratishta of Murtis through Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Acharya is no doubt to be respected but Maharaj is Bhagwaan himself and is pragat through his Ekantik Sant(I-27).

OK as you say Raghuvirji Mahraj attained Brahmic state through Gopalanand Swami, it is clear that he achieved that state through some Saint and not by himself. So tell me who is such a sant through today's acharya have attained the Brahmic Sthiti ???.

If you guys believe GOPALANAND SWAMI to be Mul Akshar then through Vachanamrut Akshar is the Uttam Bhakta of MAHARAJ then why is Gopalanand Swami not being installed along with Maharaj the same way as Laxminarayan and Narnarayan are being installed in the Mandirs today ????

YOU SAY THAT YOU HAVE BEEN IN BAPS SATSANG SINCE CHILD HOOD AND ASKED FEW QUESTIONS AND LEFT BAPS. TODAY WE HAVE SO MANY IN BAPS WHO HAVE LEFT VADTAL SANSTHA AND CAME INTO BAPS. WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THOSE ???

I want to ask these all question to all BAPS followers, 1. Do you do whatever Pramukh swami maharaj say?

Yes we do, If you would have done as Pramukh Swami Said you would have never left BAPS. You talk about the Authencity of BAPS Sadhus but what about your Authenticity. You are no Authentic personality or a Legend from scriptures to doubt the Authenticity of BAPS sadhus. It is open come and have look at their lives.

If yes, Pramukh swami maharaj has told in "Pramukhswami ni amrut vani" that, every satsangi should read books published by the seal of Acharya maharaj.

Which Samput are you talking about their are 11 Samputs consisting of about 20-25 pravachans in each Samput of Pramukh Swaim ni Amrut Vani.

Now I have the Vachanamrut from both sides. There is no difference, you can refer to what ever refernces that I have given from my Vachanamrut. We read the right books and get right understandings. You keep saying that BAPS alters books, DONT TALK IF YOU CANNOT PROVE IT. It is not the stamp of Acharya we require, it is the Satpurush we require to attain Moksha.

Did you read Shikshapatri? (Full version, not only Sukti ratna). which is stating that Murties which are established by Acharya should only be worshipped, other murties should not be worshipped but may be paid respect.

Yes we do read Shikshapatri and not the suktiratnas, DO YOU READ SHIKSHAPATRI?? What about Acharyas niyams, even he is a Gruhast. OK, Even if I leave everything and come under acharaya, Tell me through which SANT, has todays acharya attained Brahmic State as you said about Raghuvirji Maharaj, who can guarnte my Moksha ??. Dont say that Maharaj has guarenteed the Moksha. Maharaj has guarenteed only for those who have attained Brahmic State, Who can take me to that stae there ??

Here I have a guarntee from Pramukh Swami Maharaj whom I believe to be Akshar himself because it is the direct parampara from Maharaj and Gunatitanand Swami. All the gurus in Parampara have Purest of pure NIshta, Upasana and Dharam.

So please decide which murty are you worshipping? Established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself or by Gurus of BAPS.

You can clearly see, our Upasya Bhagwaan is Maharaj himself, our central Shrine has Maharaj along with his Uttam bhakta, Our Mantra is Swaminarayan, We are striving to become Brahmaroop, We are following Maharaj's Aagna(Shikshapatri), Following his true concept(From Vachanamrut), Our Dhaam is Akshardhaam etc.. So what do you think BAPS is doing? Just because Acharya didnt install the Murtis, the upasana doesn't change, If he doesnt install the Murtis, Upasana cannot be given up, Maharaj's Siddhant cannot be falsified. I have already explained the Akshar Purushottam Upasana through Vachanamrut above. If they cant accept Maharaj's Siddhant then we cant give up doing Bhakti for Maharaj. Madhya-9 clearly states that, Having complete Nishta of Bhagwan if one has to leave the Satsang under certain circumstances then even though one is out side Satsang Maharaj says that at the end he would attain Akshardhaam. And One might be staying in the Satsang following the Shastras to the point but does not have the nishta of Bhagwatswarup then he would go to some devlok but not Akshardhaam.

What do you have to say abt this Vachanamrut ?? Dont say that BAPS has edited this, Look for yourself in your Vachanamrut. So even if BAPS is declared as vimukh by VADTAL but still is SANMUKH by this Vachanamrut.

Maharaj said his Nishta and not Acharyas Nishta. So Shastriji Mahraj had to come out of Vadtal under such circumstances, You cant say Aksharpurushottam (Akshar roop thai Purushottam ni Bhakti Karvi) Upasana concept is false. If you do then prove it. If Acharya Maharaj doesnt install the idols then we cannot give up the nishta of Maharaj and Swami. That is the answer for your Question for which you have left BAPS as you said.

In shikshapatri shlok Shree Hari has written that "Dharmado" should be given to the temples which I have built ("AAne me je sthapela Lakshminarayan aadik dev mandir..."). So please ask your self that are you giving dharmada to these Hari sthapit temples?

The result of what a Sanstha is doing with the Dharmado is seen clearly by its work. The BAPS might have about 1million followers and Vadtal-Amdavad Sanstha might have more. But BAPS has more than 600 Mandirs (Not miniature mandirs but very beautifully stone carved) for a million followers BAPS has more than 9000 centres running in 45 countries, It is working for so many relief works and so many other things. And more over the Gandhinagar and Delhi Akshardhaam. All these are not the assets for BAPS but only the Guru through whom Mahraj is present is the asset of this Sanstha. I am jst explaining because you have raised such a question abt Dharmado. Read more on BAPSdotOrg or go see for your self. Show me wher e is BAPS wasting money from Haribhaktos.

In Bhaktachintamani Nishkulanand Swami has stated about Acharya and more than Acharya he has stated about the Sant.

If Acharya Mahraj is attaining the Brahmic state through samagam of a Sant then definitely he is not such a Sant. You mentioned a few saints names, But even nishkulanand Swami was a saint himself of Pratham Pankti (1st row) of Maharaj. He him self says in Chosath Padi:

"Kahe Sant sevya sare kaaj, Em chhe Agamama,......."

"Eva Sant tani Odkhan, kahu sahu Sambhlo,

Pachi Saupi tene man pran, E vade tem vado.

Jena Antarma avinash, vaas kari vasiya

Tena Kaam krodh pamya nash, lobh ne moh gaya...."

"Eve Sant jame jamya Shyam, Jamya Sarve Devata

Jamya Sarve lok ...... Sahu thaya Trupta"

"Van Sadhu no Vartaro re Aa pad sunta Odkha Se......."

"Jenu Tan man maanyu tyage re Bhakti Dharme Bhave re,

Jena Vachane vintya vairagya re, Antarma thi aave re,

Shil Santosh ne vali Shanti re Antar maa thi aave re....."

Even Nishkulanand Swami was a great Sadhu but not as great as he has describes about a true Sant who is capable of destroying Vasanas and doing Moksha. Show me a sant like this ?? Who is definitely something more than even Sadguru Nishkulanand Swami, in whom Bhagwan resides. The names you have mentioned might be as good as Nishkulanand Swami, who was Aishwarya sampan, they might be like Muktanand Swami, or Brahmanand Swami but still not as capable as the one mentioned in the above pad. i.e., Moksha nu Dwar(Satpurush). That is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Now you will ask what me say that then, It is not by mere words that you could understand Pramukh Swami Mahraj, you have to see it your self. How can you understand a Satpurush if you just keep seeing negative in him ?? You say, you have seen him driving in Mercedes and living with comforts and sitting on a throne. What were you doing in BAPS for past 20 years, Didnt you see him writing more than 500,000 letters, replying the Haribhaktos to help them out in their problems, Didn't you see him doing padhraminis at more than 200 houses (in just one day) of Aadivasi huts in radiant summers. He has visited more than 250000 houses to improve peoples' lives and made them addiction free and bought them on Bhakti Marg. Even at the age of 86 he has done vicharan in more than 30 villages and many cities in year 2006. This year (2007) he has alredy visited more than 15 villages and now visiting so many different countries. Get me someone this old and doing this much vicharan at this age of 86. You have never seen the thorns that are on his throne because he never lets anybody know his pains. Never in his life has said that "I have done this" or "I have achieved this" This is not easy for someone holding Guniess records and Keys to the cities etc. He has never considered all these but only behaved as a sevak of Haribhaktos and Uttam Bhakt of Maharaj.

Pramukh Swami, His Sadhus and all BAPS Satsangis go for darshan at all Vadtal-Amdavad Gadi Mandirs, out of respect for Maharaj. Maharaj has done his Leela in these places. So, it is a Pilgrimage(teerth dhaam).

You talk abt Senior saints of BAPS not answering your questions, This is just not possible. I have been in this BAPS Swaminarayan Satsang since past 3 years and I never had an ocassion where I asked a question and didnt get a reply. More over I am from south and could understand these things as they are crystal clear. You being a Gujarati and in Satsang since 25 yrs left BAPS then some thing is wrong with your understanding. You say I state foolish things but from your post you have made a fool of yourself. You said that Acharyas are another form of Maharaj, prove it, give reference. Cant just go by your words. You said he is above akshar muktas. There is only one entity above Muktas, Brahman, as Mahraj said: Jivas, Ishawaras are anant but there is only one Akshar and only One Parabrahman(read Khagol Bhugol, II-41 etc..). If you say Acharya is Above akshar muktas then he should be Akshar himself. Then if Raghuvirji Mahraj was above akshar muktas then why did he attain Brahmic State through Gopalanand Swami as you said and why did he mention Gunatitanand Swami as Akshar.

I dont understand what kind of theory you are following, No doubt you had to leave BAPS.

You mentioned the Shloka at the end, Even I know that Shloka. What do you wanna prove through it ??? That BAPS is out of Satsang, But my friend With Mahraj's Siddhant and his Niyams BAPS is not outside Satsang But BAPS IS THE SATSANG.

It is Moksha that a Jiva requires not stamping of any Organisation. So, Anyone keen about Liberation come to Pramukh Swami Who is the BHAGWAT SANT according to Sreemad BHAGWAT and is the ParamEkantik Satpurush and Uttam Bhakt and Ekantik Dharak of Bhagwan Swaminarayan. (One who calls Pramukh Swami as Maharaj will be making a fool of himself)

My respects to all the Acharyas, No offence to them. It was just arguments to support the true concepts.

JAI SHREE SWAMINARAYAN

I will be replying in two or three posts, for some reason, its not posting the whole thing at a time. This post and the next post are connected... Just cant post it together.

Jay Swaminarayan,

Look, When I said about Gad-I-27,"God resides in every Indriya of a Sant" was the Vachanamrut and "not acharya" was my statement, Thats why I didnt quote my statement. You should have thought that with commen sense before out of excitement calling me foolish.

Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj wrote in Kirtan Kaustubhmala

His exact words in it are:

"Aksharmurti Gunatitanand Swami, Tene Aapya vartman,

Pote paline pachi palavya, Janne dai ghanu Gnan....."

Here when he says Aksharmurti Gunatitanand Swami then it means Akshar Murtimaan and not a Brahmswarup Saint but Brahman himself. This book abt maharaj written by Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj was printed by Kothari Hathibhai Nanajibhai in 1912 AD at Mumbai by your Management. Please do refer it, If I am wrong pease state what is written in there.

Now in Harililakalpataru, Achintyanand Brahmachari Who was not from BAPS does the Stuti of Gunatitanand Swami as Akshar:

Here what it states

"Yadromavivare leena Andanam kotayah Pruthak|

Tadhaksharam Gunatitam Gunatitam Namamyaham||"

In Brief it means: In whose every pore Infinite Brahmands stay different from each other, that Akshar who is Gunatit(above three Gunas), I bow down to that Gunatit(Gunatitanand Swami) .

When Maharaj gave diksha to Gunatitanand Swami in Dabhan, that description in Harililakalpataru as follows:

"Muljisharma Dikshaam Dadanasya prajayate|

Bhuyonmetra Samanando Tato Dhamaksharam Sa Me||

Mukteyranantayha saakam Me Yatrakhandtayoshyate|

Urdhvobhagarhitam Tanmulam Dhaam Chaksharam||

Harileelakalpataru: 7th Skand, 17th Adhyaya

It means: Mulji Akshar who is my murtimaan Akshardhaam, which is dimensionless, Where I stay with my infinite Muktas, I am very happy to give him diksha today.

If this sholka means something else then please do give me the real meaning. You say Nishkulanand Swami stated Gopalanand Swami as Akshar, Please do provide the reference???. If kariyani akshar ordi says that then: Look at the Junagadh Mandir -Sabha Gruh and Bhandar has Akshar Purushottam murtis. Jetpur Swaminarayan Mandir, Panchala Swaminarayan Mandir, Faneni Swaminarayan Mandir, Mendarda, Vekri, Kaalsari, Bhundari, Rajkot,Verawad, Manavadar and Gondal Swaminarayan Mandirs, all under the Jurisdiction of Acharya has Akshar Purushottam murtis (or say photo or painting).Now you cant say that this doesnt exist or BAPS went into the Mandirs and installed it. I have sited them my self and have the pictures as well. I dont know the process to upload the pics on this forum. All of them and a few other mandirs state clearly beneath the Photos as Mul Akshar Gunatitanand Swami.

Now you said that installing Akshar beside Maharaj is "against the wishes of Lord". Can you please prove that this with some material said by Maharaj or any Paramhansas???. Maharaj in Vadtal 5 clearly states that "If you spend 5 rupees for god then you should spend 5 rupees for his Uttam Bhakta as well......" He also said-"Jetlu Raja nu rajya etluj Rani nu Raj..." It doesnt mean that Queen replaces the King. Gadhada-I-68 states:"Eight types of Murtis where god resides and the ninth is the Sant" Gunanatitanand Swami is such Sant and Uttam Bhakta. Akshar is Akshar since Anadi but the Akshar mukts have done the Bhakti of ParaBrahman and attained such State. So, Akshar is the Devotee since Anadi i.e., Time immemorial. Read Loya 12, Maharaj Clearly says that Uttam NIrvikalp Nishachay is attained only by reaching a state equvivalent to that of Aksharbrahman. It clearly means that Akshar's Bhakti and NIshachay is not comparable with any of the Jivas including Acharya Maharaj.

Now Maharaj said in Shikshapatri that Laxmi with narayan is called Laxminarayan, Nar and Narayan is called Narnarayan etc..And in Shikshapatri Shlok 111, Maharaj clearly states that Radha, Laxmi etc.. are Bhagwan's Bhaktas who somtimes are next to him or sometimes reside in the body. Now at that time every one knew abt Laxminarayan, Narnarayan etc He was trying to hint something else. In shloka 203 Mahraj says that he has written this shikshapatri in brief and for more knowledge refer to the Sampraday Scriptures.

The Most Authentic Scripture after Shikshapatri(Written by Maharaj) is Vachanamrut(Words Spoken by Maharaj). From Vachanamrut Gad-I-41, Maharaj clearly states that he doesnt reside in Prakrutipurush as much as he resides in Akshar. Prakrutipurush is the first Tatva for creation (Khagol Bhugol, Gad-I-41, Gad-II-31 etc..), It means it is only Purushottam Narayan above AksharBrahman and nobody else and also Akshar is above Maya with ParaBrahman since Anadi. Therefore Akshar is the Sarva Sreshta and Uttam Bhakta Of Maharaj. It means all the Muktas, Prakrutipurush, Pradhanpurush, Viratpurush,all Avatars and gods, and Jivas do not Understand the Swarup of Maharaj as much as Akshar does. There for to know the Paripurna Mahima and possess complete Swarup Nishta, Akshar or Mahraj himself is required (loya12). Thus from Shikshapatri when Maharaj says abt Knowing the Avatars along with their Uttambhaktas, He means to say to himself along with his Uttam Bhakta. And also in Vachanamrut Gad -III-38,Maharaj says that we should bow down to Avatars but Upasana should be done only of the Pragat Bhagwan and also in Loya-11 he says that we shouldnt do the Dhyan of Paroksh Avatars. Now in Shikshapatri he says to sing the glory of Radha Krishna but in Vachanamrut he stresses on not doing the Upasana of Paroksh Avatars. So, It is clear that Maharaj doesn't want us to do the Bhakti of Radha Krishna or Narnarayan but he wants us to his bhakti along with his Uttam Bhakta as people have done in past of Laxminarayan etc..

You say that why didnt Maharaj install AksharPruushottam himself?? Because it was very difficult for him to install his Murti by himself then how would you expect him to install his Uttam Bhakta. Muktanand Swami and abt 200 sanits didnt want Maharaj to install his Deity. Read the Jeevan Charitra, this prasang should be there because Muktanand Swami breaks his leg falling from horse while travelling to Vadtal to stop Mahraj from installing his Murti. You will again say that I am wrong and prove it. Then I would ask you, If no body had any problem with Maharaj installing his Murti then Why did Maharaj install his Murti in the Last Khand and not in the Madhya Khand?? This act of Maharaj (installing his own Murti) makes him different from all Avatars. No Avatar in the past had installed its own own Murti by themselves. And also Krishna Bhagwaan says no where that he should be installed along with Radha. It was Vallabhacharya who placed Radha with Krishna Bhagwaan. Many opposed him but today every one Understands it.

Now, as shown that Gunatitanand Swami is Akshar and Akshar is Mahraj's Uttam Bhakta, Thats why BAPS has Akshar along with Purushottam. In BAPS, Upasana is of Just Maharaj and not of Akshar. AksharPrushottam Upasana is the short form of "Akshar roop thaiyne Purushottam ni Bhakti Karvi"(Loya 12).

Continued in next post.................

I'd like to know who gives diksha to women in BAPS?

There are no women Sadhus in BAPS. All women stay in their Niyams as mentioned in Shikshapatri and do Satsang. If you are talking about the intiation into Satsang then it is done by senior Satsangis in women.

Jai Swaminarayan

What a foolish biased statement. BAPS own followers state that they are not teh Swaminarayan Sampraday. They are BAPS. An offshoot. Have you done samagam of other santos of the Sampraday that Bhagwan sWAMINARAYAN hIMSELF ESTABLSHED? Such as Bhuj santo? They talk with God everyday.

 

Nor do they break one single commandment of Bhagwan. Nor set up their own Upasnas. Nor change the artis etc. Nor build temples close to the ones Bhagwan already had built Himself. The Pratyaksh Murtis of Himself are in these very Murtis. They communicate with Bhakts every single day.

My previous post was to answer a post in which it was said that BAPS is Vimikh. BAPS didn't set up its own upasana, Read Loya12, Vadtal 5 where maharaj says the mahima of Uttam Bhakta and in Madhya 25 he says that only with the samagam of such sant our inner vasana can be destroyed. In vadtal 11 Maharaj says that If Bhagwan is not pragat on earth then one should either take the refuge of "SADHU" who has met god or if no such sadhu is present then take the refuge of the Murti. No where in Vachanamrut did maharaj say that Acharya is the door to Liberation.

In Vachanamrut Gad I-1 Maharaj uses the phrase "Dharmakul na Asshrit Bhakt......" This Vachanamrut was stated on Samvat 1876 Maghshar Sud 4 and the Acharyas were given the Gadi on Samvat 1882 Karthik Sud 11. Acharyas were not even there during this vachanamrut. So here Dharmakul na aashrit means the son of Dharma and Bhakti i.e., Maharaj himself. Raghuvansh no Aashrit doesnt mean aashrit of every one in Raghuvansh, It is understandable that only Raam Bhagwaan. Similarly Dharmakul na Aashrit means the refuge of Maharaj. Look at all the avatars of Bhagwaan, You wont find mandirs of Lav and Kush whereas you will find many mandirs of Hanuman. Same with Krishna Bhagwan's Avatar.

The Upasana of Akshar Purushottam is not new, It has always been in existance. Sadguru Balmukund Swami didnt belong to BAPS, he installed some 'pat ni murtis' (the painting version) of Akshar purushottam. Look at the Junagadh Mandir, the Sabha Gruh, the Bhandar has Akshar Purushottam murtis. Jetpur Swaminarayan Mandir, Panchala Swaminarayan Mandir, Faneni Swaminarayan Mandir, Mendarda, Vekri, Kaalsari, Bhundari, Rajkot,Verawad, Manavadar and Gondal Swaminarayan Mandirs, all under the Jurisdiction of Acharya has Akshar Purushottam paintings installed.

Akhandanand Muni has written kirtans about maharaj being present in Gunatitanand Swami, He didnt bleong to BAPS either. Nishkulanand Swami has said "Sant te Svayam Hari..". If you read the Jeevan Charitra of Bhagwaan Swaminarayan, Maharaj has said the glory of Gunatitanand Swami so many times to the Paramhansas.

Shastriji Maharaj's Guru Vignanand Swami, Adbhutananad Swami had confirmed abt this point that Gunatitanand Swami is Mul Akshar. Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj Clearly states in Kirtan Kaustubhmala that Gunatitanand Swami as"Akshar Murti Gunatitanand Swami, Tene Aapya Vartman...."

So Aksharpurushottam Upasana is not a made up thing by BAPS. Shastriji Maharaj only wanted to continue Maharaj's work for which he came on to this earth. "Aksharroop thai Purushottam ni Bhakti Karvi" Whats wrong with that. This point was uacceptable by Vadtal, They couldnt accept Gunatitanand Swami to be his Uttam Bhakt. If Brahman and ParaBrahman are the only entities above Maya then ofcourse Brahman is the Uttam Bhakt of ParaBrahman. There is no body in the nand santo to be called as Akshar Brahman as most of them knew that it was Gunatitanand Swami. If Gunatitanand Swami is Akshar and Maharaj is ParaBrahman then whats wrong if we install Gunatitanand Swami along with Maharaj. If RadhaKrishna, NaraNarayan, LaxmiNarayan can be installed then why not AksharPurushottam. We all believe Lord Swaminarayan to be our isht Bhagwan, Our dhaam is Akshardhaam, Our Mantra is "SWAMINARAYAN", We have to become Brahmanised - then why not do the Upasana of just our God, Lord Swaminarayan and try to become like his Uttam Bhakt Akshar. That is what is BAPS doing.

It was Maharaj's sankalp to build a Mandir in Bochasan(Gives a word to Kashidas Botad), Gadhada on mountain(Jiva Khachar doesnt give the Land), Sarangpur(Does the Khaat Muhurat with Manki). If Shastriji Maharaj wanted to compete with Acharays then he would have built a mandir in front of Vadtal. But he didnt do such a thing because he didn't leave Vadtal for competing with anyone but only for the Siddhant.

About the GuruParampara in BAPS, Gurus are not selected or voted. It is the Gunatit satpurush, He will remain on earth until Mahraj's Karya is done. The concept that Maharaj is ever present in satsang through the Sant (Gad I-27) is clear here. The Qualities of the guru reflect the presence of Bhagwan with in him. No body knew what was gonna happen after Yogiji Maharaj left, But when Pramukh Swami came as Guru, his vartan, his Sadhuta, his devotion made the HariBhaktos believe him to be Gunatit. Never in his life did Pramukh Swami take any credit of his hardwork, always pointed towards Maharaj. Because Maharaj is working through him, so many of them are getting strength to follow niyams.

As you said to look at the Saints established By Maharaj himself, None of them are present today. Some of the saints might have good Sadhuta in vadtal but show me a Sant as described by Maharaj in Vachanamrut - Gadhada I-27 present today who has Maharaj residing in every Indriya and that maharaj walks, eats.. through him. Show me a Sadhu other than Pramukh Swami Maharaj referring to Vachanamrut Vadtal 11. Every Lakshan of Bahktachintamani first Prakran suits Pramukh Swami maharaj.

"Eva Sant Sada shubh mati, Jakt dosh nahi jema rati,

Maan abhimaan nahi lesh, Eva Sant ne naamu hu Shish......"

If we want to become nirvasnik we have to find such a Satpurush. Acharya is to be respected as it is Maharaj's Family. If there would have been any other purush on this earth other than Pramukh Swami Maharaj, who could help me attain Atyantik Moksh then I would be his discple the next second. Here in BAPS through Pramukh Swami we get the Labh of Pragat Bhagwan.

Even if one is able to talk to Maharaj, Can he make others Brahmroop???

But AksharBrahman can and that is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Maharaj has clearly stated in Vachanamrut that " Jevo hu Akshar Ma rahu chu evo Bija ma rehto nathi.."

So BAPS Upasana is no different from Maharaj's Siddhant. Moksh nu Dwar is Satpurush and Pramukh Swami is not trying to compete with anyone in Building Mandirs.

Jai Swaminarayan

^^^ LOL see what i mean? What about Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jay? Also why BAPS taken Nar Narayan Dev out of the arti?

The Baps Santos found the original copy of aarti written by Muktanand Swami. So, according to that they changed Nar-Brahta to Sukhdata.

It is Bhagwan Swaminarayan's Aarti, why need Narnarayan or any other avatars in that.

Jai Swaminarayan

First of all.. Swaminarayan Bhagwan nor Sadguru Gunatitanand Swami has ever mentioned a Gunatit Parampara nor have they ever mentioned Swami as incarnation of Akshar. Swamis VAtus (the exact one by Vignanand Swami) is currently in Rajkot Mandir.Therein there is no mention of a Akshar Purshottam Upasna.

 

Secondly BAPS came into existence in 1907. So truth is that it does not follow the correct way of worship.Truth is that the knowledge of the Panch Anadi namely Jiv, Ishwar, Maya, Brahamn and Parbrahman are crystal clear within the Orthodox Swaminarayan Samraday that today is under the guidance of the Dharmvanshi Acharyas.

 

Am i wrong?

 

Jay Swaminarayan.

Dear Friend,

First of all answer to your question:"Yes you are Wrong"

I never said that Guru parampara is Mentioned in any Scriptures. In Gadhada I-71 where maharaj says that when ever Bhagwan comes on to this earth, he comes along with his Akshardhaam and Muktas....It shows that Maharaj bought his Akshardhaam along with him. At many occasions Maharaj has said that Gunatitanad Swami is Mul Akshar. Read his Jevan Charitra. Shastriji Maharaj's guru Vignananand Swami was a Paramhans of Shreeji Maharaj. Shastriji Maharaj cleaared this point with him that Gunatitanand Swami is Mul Akshar, He cleared the same point with Adbhutanand Swami who was a paramhans of Maharaj and also many other. Balmukund Swami, Prakgji Bhakt, Jaga Swami and many other direct disciples of Gunatitanand Swami explained this point.

Acharya Shri Raghuvirji Maharaj quoted Bhagwan Swaminarayan when he referred to Gunatitanand Swami Maharaj as his 'Akshardham, within whom he forever resides in.' Shri Harililakalpatru VII/17:49, 50.

Shri Viharilalji Maharaj referred to Gunatitanand Swami as Akshar Murti Gunatitanand Swami Maharaj in his Kirtan Kaustubhamala.

Similar references can be found in the kirtans of Jerami Brahmachari, Akhandanand Brahmachari, and Jagdishanand Brahmachari of Junagadh.

The small shrine erected at the spot where Gunatitanand Swami Maharaj used to sit in Junagadh has the inscription, "Anadi Mul Akshar Murti Gunatitanand Swami sat here for 40 years."

shrine constructed on the site of Gunatitanand Swami Maharaj's final rites only a few years after his passing was called 'Akshar Deri'.

These many points show that Gunatitanand Swami is Mul Akshar.

It was hard for people to believe Maharaj as Sarvopari then imagine how hard would it be to accept Gunatitanand Swami to be Mul Akshar. Thats why Vignananand Swami didn't say it openly.

Now talkin about Guru Parampara, the gurus are no different but Akshar Brahman himself. Its just the outer appearance is changing but the entity remains Akshar, because in order to attain Brahmic State one requires Brahman himself. It was with the samgam of Gunatitanad Swami, Acharaya Raghuvirji Maharaj attained Brahmic state. Even Shreeji maharaj said to his Paramhansas that every year all of you should spend one month at Junagadh and if you do this-"Karod janam ni kasar aa ne aa janme kadhi lesh". These were the words spoken by maharaj.

Even though BAPS was formed in 1907, Akshar Purushottam Upasana existed since eternity. Maharaj himself says that Uttam Nirvikalp Nishcay is attained only when you become Brahmroop(Loya 12). Before Shastriji Maharaj, Bhagatji Maharaj also spread the Akshar Purushottam Upasana in Satsang. Sitting in Vadtal Shastriji Maharaj installed Akshar Purushottam in Vadhwan. He could have spread the Upasana even without leaving vadtal, He never got such a thought in his mind. Because it came upon his life, Krishnaji Ada asked him to leave vadtal. The formation in 1907 was only an official thing, But Akshar Purushottam Upasana existed since time immemorial.

Why is BAPS wrong?????? Never in their lives did Bhagatji Maharaj, Shastriji Maharaj, Yogiji Maharaj and today Pramukh Swami Maharaj broke any Aagna of Shreeji Maharaj. Look at the Ashtang Brahmacharya the Sadhus are following, the detachment from wealth. Even every Satsangi of BAPS follows the Stree Purush Marayada properly. Shreeji Maharaj and Gunatitanand Swami are ParaBrahman and Brahman rescpetively. Therefore Maharaj and his Uttam Bhakt exists since anadi. Acharya came into existance after maharaj appeared on earth. No where in the Scriptures of the Sampraday, it is said that Acharya is Moksh nu dwar. It is Satpurush who is Moksh nu Dwar. Gadhada I-27, Shreeji Maharaj States that he resides in every Indriya of his Ekantik Sant and not Acharya. Vadtal 5, Madhya 13 and many more vachanmruts, Bhaktachintamani the whole first Prakran, Nishkulanand Kavya and many other state a lot of Mahima about Sant. Mahraj has referred only twice the acharyas in the Vachanamrut, But he has referred to the SANT so many times.

Never did Shastriji Maharaj, Yogiji Maharaj and Pramukh Swami Maharaj spoke ill about Acharyas. But when it came to the Siddhant they never compromised with that. Even Prahalad knew that Mother and Father sholud be served as god but when it came to his Bhakti he never compromised either. Pramukh Swami has always respected the Acharayas and the Vadtal Sadhus. Look around the world and try to find a true Swaminarayan Sadhu as pure as Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Maharaj 100% resides where his Siddhant presides.

I had no intention to criticise the Acharyas, Sorry if said any thing to hurt your feelings. Even I respect the Acharyas but moksha is not through him because look at what has happened to the Sadhuta of the Sadhus their. How can ones jiva become shuddh in such evironment. With all due respect to the Acharayas, Moksh nu Dwar is Satpurush. In Vadtal 10 last paragraph Maharaj says-" If God is not present on earth then one should take the refuge of the Sadhu who has met god and if no such sadhu is present then take the refuge of the Murtis, Liberation is done through them" No where did Maharaj say to take acharyas refuge, he mentioned Sadhu or Murtis. Pramukh Swami is such a Sadhu who can purify us and guide us to Liberation.

Jai Swaminarayan

Your views will be biased as you have only seen one side. Whereas i have seen both. I dont talk from biased views.

First of all If your read the Gunatitanand Swami ni vato. Swami Himself states that the Acharyas shall never be critisised. Those that do critisise shall fall from the Satsang. HAve you read this? If not i will give you a reference so you may read it for yourself.

 

Secondly, All the Acharyas that have been acharyas even todays acharya are of the Dharmvanshi Kul. They are the family of Dharm. So your avgun will do you bad unless you realise for yourself. Not only that but you go on to say that Acharyas have been taken of teh GAdi. Which is true. If you read the Purshottam Parakash, SatsangiJivan, Satsangi Bhushan or Bhakt Chintamani you may relaise for yourself where the truth lays today. You cant just read one scripture and think you know everything.

 

 

The Acharya's of the Sampraday are more than mere administrative heads. They are the spiritual leaders and the Guru through whom the path to atyantik kalyan (ultimate redemption) is opened.

 

Sahajanand Swami (Swaminarayan) adopted Ayodhyaprasadji from His elder brother Rampratapji and adopted Raghuvirji from His younger brother Ichcharamji. He accepted the two as His own sons and handed the Northern- NarNarayan Dev Desh (diocese) to Ayodhyaprasadji and the Southern- LakshmiNarayan Dev Desh to Raghuvirji in Vadtal on VS 1882 (1826 AD) Kartik Sud 11 - Prabodhini Ekadashi (ironically on the very same day He was given the Acharya-pad by Ramanand Swami).

 

The NarNarayan Desh is based in Amdavad (Ahmedabad) and LakshmiNarayan Desh in Vadtal. Though known as NarNarayan Dev and Lakshminarayan Dev Gadi, both are the Swaminarayan Gadis as they are the only authentic gadis established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself.

 

The Acharyas are householders and their respective wives (Gadiwala) stand as the females’ Guru. The Gadi is passed on to the most capable of the Sons from their family.

The Acharya’s role is to:

 

• initiate followers into the Sampraday with a Samanya Diksha by giving the special guru-mantra

• initiate sadhus (monks, ascetics) by giving them the Maha-Bhagwadi Diksha

• perform murti-pratishtha, install deities in the temples

• authenticate scriptures of the Sampraday

• act as the Guru and leader of the entire Sampraday.

 

These responsibilities have been prescribed in the Shikshapatri, Satsangijeevan and Desh Vibhag no Lekh, and according to these shastras no other individual other than the Dharmavanshi Acharyas are permitted to carry out the above duties. Therefore, the sole authority of the above lies with the two Acharyas.

 

“My Bhramin, Kshatriya and Vaishya followers who have received Shri Krshna Diksha (initiation) from the Dharmavanshi (descendants of Dharmadev) Acharyas, shall wear a double tulsi kanthi (rosary) around their neck and shall wear a U-shaped tilak on their forehead, chest, and both harms.” (Shikshapatri Shlok 41)

 

Therefore, a Swaminarayan follower is only a genuine Swaminarayan follower once he has received diksha from the respective Acharya. A Swaminarayan sadhu is only a genuine Swaminarayan sadhu once he has been given diksha by the Acharyas.

 

In the Shikshapatri (62), Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states:

“And the form of Shri Krshna that has been given by your Acharya for the purpose of your worship and the forms that the Acharya has installed (i.e. in the mandirs) are the only forms of God worthy of worship. The rest are worthy of respect but not worthy of worship”

Therefore, the only murtis (deities) worthy of worship are those installed by the Acharyas.

In the Shikshapatri, Swaminarayan Bhagwan has placed a lot of importance on the Acharyas.

 

Shlok 71:

“All my followers shall never enter into debate with their Acharyas and shall serve the Acharyas with food, clothing, money etc according to their capacity.”

 

Shlok 72:

“Upon hearing of their coming, my followers should immediately go to greet and welcome the arrival of their Acharyas, and when the Acharya returns from the town my followers shall see them off to the outskirts of the town.”

 

In the scripture Purushottam Prakash, the writer Nishkulanand Swami describes the instance when Swaminarayan Bhagwan established the Dharmavanshi Acharya’s.

 

Sahajanand Swami felt that now that He had established the grand temples and splendid Sampraday, He wanted to keep His sadhus free from the affairs dealing with wealth, power etc. He therefore decided that He would create leaders for each and every sadhu and householder, who will subsequently be responsible for the Sampraday.

This was in accordance with one of His three resolves; i.e. to establish the leaders of the Sampraday from His own family - Dharmakul.

 

Before declaring His intention to select His own family, Lord Shree Swaminarayan first gathered the senior sadhus/saints and followers and revealed His intention to install successors to the leadership.

 

The gathering that included seniors such as S.G. Muktanand Swami, S.G. Gopalanand Swami, S.G. Brahmanand Swami etc. as well as householders such as Dada- Uttam Khachar, unanimously recommended to Lord Shree Swaminarayan that He retain the leadership in His own Dharmakul and select Ayodhyaprasadji or Raghuvirji.

 

Lord Shree Swaminarayan was very pleased with this suggestion, for this was His own thinking as well. Since there was no room for discussion or further consideration, it was concluded that Lord Shree Swaminaryan's successors will be from His own Dharmakul and will be householders.

 

Sahajanand Swami then adopted Ayodhyaprasadji and Raghuvirprasadji as His own sons and made them the Acharyas – the Gurus of the Swaminarayan Sampraday.

 

He then declared, “Those who serve these Acharyas with food, jewellery, vehicles, animals, flowers etc shall be worthy of Akshardham…………. I shall emancipate those who serve and respect these Acharyas. Through these Acharyas I shall give kalyaan (give Akshardham) to all souls………." (Purushottam Prakash Chapter 37, Verse 6-20)

“…After a lot of thought and consideration I have decided to give the Gadi to them…” (Chapter 39 Verse 8)

 

“Therefore all of you shall obey the Dharamkul and serve them. They are not ordinary beings; they are great Devtas (Gods). As well as being my Sons they are Brahmin and my Bhaktas and by serving them you shall earn immense happiness. All your wishes will be fulfilled, this is my command that is to remain permanently.”

 

“So both householders and sadhus obey their (Acharyas’) commands, and not the fancies of the mind. Do not take any actions without their consent…..do not enter into debates with them even if you are greater in knowledge or wisdom…you shall regard the Acharyas as faultless – you shall obey their commands. If you keep them pleased then I will be pleased with you because they are in place of Myself….. I am forever residing in them. I am in them, and they are in Me. I am never far from them and I give darshan (divine sightings) residing in them……….”

 

“I am forever residing in the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. After seeing such followers I have decided to remain here (in the satsang), therefore those who worship the Acharyas have worshipped Me.”

(Purushottam Prakash Chapter 40)

 

The establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas was therefore immensely important for both administrative and spiritual purposes.

 

The constitution of the Sampraday is laid out in Desh Vibhag no Lekh, which describes in detail the functions of the Acharyas.

 

“….it is my command to all sadhus, bhramcharis and all satsangi's, that for the purpose of your kalyaan (emancipation) you must obey and follow the two Acharyas of Dharmavansh, and obey their commands by thought, action and speech. If this is compromised and whoever turns elsewhere (rejecting the Acharyas) will find that they will never find sukh (happiness) in this world or the worlds beyond and will experience immense distress…” (Desh Vibhag no Lekh)

 

Furthermore, in one of the most authoritative scriptures the Vachamanamrut, Swaminarayan Bhagwan clearly states one of the prerequisites for attaining Akshardham

“…The devotee who is aashrit of Dharmakul (i.e. he who has received initiation from Dharmavanshi Acharya and remains loyal to the Acharya) gets a divine Brahm-state body by God’s wish…” (Vachanamrut, Gadhada Pratham Chapter 1)

So it is imperative to be a humble loyal follower of the Dharmavanshi Acharya once receiving the diksha (guru mantra) in order to be qualified to achieve a Brahm form.

Even Gunatitanand Swami, one of the main sadhus of Swaminarayan Bhagwan states “He who insults the temples, Acharyas, sadhus and satsangi’s will find his roots being destroyed and will inevitably fall from the satsang.” (Swami ni Vato Prakran 5, Vat 104)

Sahajanand Swami has decided to remain on this earth in His Acharyas. They are a version of Him. Being Purushottam Narayan Bhagwan, Sahajanand Swami kept an eternal method of attaining Akshardham by first requiring followers to obtain gurumantra or diksha and obey and respect the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. This is a system, which He has established for each and every follower. It was not a system that was to be changed or altered in the future in any way.

 

In S.G. Nityanand Swami's Shree Hari-Digvijay (endorsed by Lord Shree Swaminarayan) a debate between many great Vedic pundit- scholars and Lord Shree Swaminarayan is well documented.

 

The pundits challenge Lord Shree Swaminarayan's establishment of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. It was argued that a householder being a leader of renunciates (sadhus etc.) was anti-Vedic and had no firm basis in the scriptures of the Sanatan Dharma.

 

Lord Shree Swaminarayan explained in detail how it is in fact preferable to have householders leading a fellowship that consists of male and female renunciates and grihastha - householders.

 

He provided scriptural evidence for this and stated examples such Vyasji, the founder of the 4 Vedas and 18 Purans and considered the 'Universal Guru' in whose memory we have 'Guru-Poornima'.

 

Rishi Vyas was in fact a householder. Similarly, Rishis Vasishta and Yagyavalkya were also householders as was Brahmarshi Vishwamitra. A more distinct example is of Shukadevji, who recited the Srimad Bhagwat to King Parikshit, was a shishya (disciple) of King Janaka.

Therefore, the gathering of pandits and scholars agreed that the setup of Dharmavanshi Acharyas was more than coherent with the Vedic Dharmas and was worthy of honour and admiration.

 

Today there exist many sects that claim they are following the philosophies of Shree Swaminarayan Bhagwan, where in fact nothing could be further from the truth. As Swaminarayan Bhagwan has emphasised, there is no Akshardham for those who do not honour, obey, respect and serve the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, no matter how great a devotee they are.

 

It has now become necessary to question ‘Swaminarayan Temples’ whether they are in fact Swaminarayan Temples since the deities appear not to have been installed by the Dharmavanshi Acharyas, which is an outright breach of Swaminarayan Bhagwan’s likings (refer Shikshapatri Shlok 10 and then Shlok 62).

 

It has also become necessary to question the authenticity of ‘Swaminarayan’ sadhus. According to the scriptures mentioned, a Swaminarayan Sadhu is he who has received the initiation (maha-bhagwati diksha) from Dharmavanshi Acharya- no one else.

 

Once this has been appreciated, one can realise the true grandeur of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. They are another form of Swaminarayan Bhagwan and though they appear as humans, they are at a status even higher than Akshar-Muktas. Therefore all Swaminarayan Satsangis should obtain initiation from one of the two Dharmavanshi Acharyas and remain under their instructions and always honour and respect them as they would Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself.

 

 

I would like to clear first that I was follower of BAPS since child hood, and now (at the age of 25th year) I have joined Original Sampraday by asking some questions to 1st line saints of BAPS. Please make a note that these all questions were unanswered by leading saints of BAPS. I have tried to ask these questiones to leading followers of BAPS, but as and when I asked questions they got provoked and could not answer.

 

I want to ask these all question to all BAPS followers, 1. Do you do whatever Pramukh swami maharaj say?

 

2. If yes, Pramukh swami maharaj has told in "Pramukhswami ni amrut vani" that, every satsangi should read books published by the seal of Acharya maharaj.

 

3. So did you try to read these books?

 

4. Did you read Shikshapatri? (Full version, not only Sukti ratna). which is stating that Murties which are established by Acharya should only be worshipped, other murties should not be worshipped but may be paid respect.

 

5. So please decide which murty are you worshipping? Established by Lord Swaminarayan Himself or by Gurus of BAPS.

 

6. In shikshapatri shlok Shree Hari has written that "Dharmado" should be given to the temples which I have built ("AAne me je sthapela Lakshminarayan aadik dev mandir..."). So please ask your self that are you giving dharmada to these Hari sthapit temples?

 

7. In shikshapatri , shree Hari has written that All sadhues MUST take Diksha from Acharya. So the other sadhus including your all Gurues (except Shashtriji Maharaj who was made "VIMUKH" from Vadtal temple) are not at all swaminarayan saits.

 

8. I think all satsangies Must read Desh Vibhag lekh, which is written by Shree Hari in the presence of all leading satsangies, and sadhus at that time. In this bhagwan has told that "Je koi mara sthapela dharma thi aalag aashram sthapshe te Guru Drohi chhe, vachan drohi chhe, ane te Jarur aa lok ne vishe ane parlok ne vishe mota kashta ne pamshe".

 

5. Did you read Bhaktachintamani? In which many a time Lord has said that all must follow Acharya's Agya.

 

6. Do you know that when any new sait is taking diksha in BAPS, then he is driven to Nar Narayan dev temple first.

 

7. Do you know that when ever Pramukh swami maharaj is coming to Gadhada, he visits Gopinathji Maharaj Temple to worship without fail. So please, if you want to go Akhardham then you all should read Shikshapatri, Vachanamrit (read whole, not some paragraphs which is instructed by BAPS temple), Bhaktachintamani, Satsangi Jivan (some days before in Dadar BAPS satsang sabha, mahant swami of dadar has also told to read satsangi Jivan) and Understand that without any bias. You will realise that through original sampraday only, one can get Akhardham.

 

8. At last but not list , the last shlok of shikshapatri -"Je aa shikhapatri pramane vartshe tene Dharma, Arth, Kam, ane Moksha (Akhardham) malshe, and je nahi varte te to AMARA DHARMA THI BAHER CHHE tem janvu."

 

Now its upto you whether you want to follow word of Lord Swaminarayan, or words of Gurus (who are miss leading to all)

Jai Swaminarayan,

What makes you say that BAPS Satsangis do not read Shikshapatri, Even though Maharaj has written about Acharyas in Shikshapatri and other scriptures, He has said a lot more about the Mahima of Ekantik Sant than about the Acharya. Read Vachanmrut Gadhada II-27, Vadtal-5 and many more in which Maharaj says that he is present in every Indriya of his Ekantik Sant and not only that, if you read Loya-12 in which he expliains about Uttam Nirvikalp Nishchay where he says about the true Mahima of Akshar Brahman. There are so many Vachanmruts in which he says about the Mahima of his Ekantik Sant. NO where in the Vachanmrut has he said that Acharya is the Door to Liberation, Every where in the Vachanamrut, it says that Satpurush is the door to Liberation. Even in Bhakta Chintamani The whole first Prakran is about the Sant Mahima.

"Kamadudha, Kalpataru, Paras, Ahintamani Char,

Sant saman Eke Nahi mai Man maa karyu vichar"

"Eva Sant sada Shubh Mati, Jakt dosh nahi Jema Rati...

"Maan Abhiman Nahi Lesh, Eva Sant ne namu hu Shish....

Nishakulanand Swami has said so much mahima of the Sant in many of the Scriptures. No where has it been mentioned so much about Acharya. Bhagatji Maharaj was Gopalanand Swami's Shishya, During his last breath he asked his shishyas to go to Junagad and to the Samagam of Gunatitanad Swami and not of acharya. Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj went to Junagad as a Pilgrim and not as an Acharya to do the Samagam of Gunatitanand Swami and attained the Brahmic State.

Only a first few Acharya Viharilalji Maharaj, Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj they were very good at the Niyam Dharam. But the other Acharyas couldnt keep up the Niyams and since then the Sadhus became Linient in their Niyams as well. Even I came to the Vadtal Mandir for darshan, I wasn't very happy with the vartan of the Sadhus there. There is a huge difference between thier Vartan and the Vartan of BAPS sadhus. And think twice when you keep saying Vimukh about Shastriji Maharaj, Yogiji Maharaj and Pramukh Swami Maharaj, Never in their Lives have they broken any Niyam of Shreeji Maharaj. They are paipurna in Sadhuta, Bhakti, Dharma, Vairagya and also the Knowledge about true Maharaj's form.

Read Vachanmrut Madhya -9 where Maharaj says that if one understands me as Sarvopari, Sada divya Sakar and Avatari of all Avatars then with this nistha even if one has to leave satsang and live outside Satsang, he will still attain Akshardhaam.

All BAPS Satsangis go to Vadtal mandir Including the Guru, HDH Pramukh Swami Maharaj because it is the Prasadi Sthaan of Shreeji Maharaj. Pramukh Swami Maharaj, due to his Sadhuta and with respect to Maharaj's words has always respected the Acharyas. Never in their lives did Shastriji Maharaj, Yogiji Maharaj and Pramukh Swami Maharaj have spoken ill about the Vadtal or Amdavad Gadi. Pramukh Swami has always given the hospitality to his best to the Acharyas when ever they have met.

Shastriji Maharaj wasn't an ordinary Sadhu, Gordhan Kothari used to say that "Be hazar Sadhuo maa thi Shastri Yagnapurushdas jevo Stree ane Dhan no tyagi koi nathi". You should be knowing abt Gordhan kothari more than me. Go back to the history, Shastriji Maharaj was explaining abt akshar purushottam to everyone when he was in vadtal. Not only that sitting in vadtal he had akshar purushottam idols installed in the Vadhwan mandir. Staying in Vadtal Shastriji Maharaj could have spread the Upasana of Akshar purushottam. But it came upon to his life, the sadhus in vadtal had lost their minds, they tried many times to Kill Shastriji Maharaj. It was Krishnaji Ada, by whose words he left Vadtal.

Even after Leaving from Vadtal, shastriji Maharaj tried many times to join back but only if they accepted the concept of Akshar Purushottam. And then it was Shastriji Maharaj who gave Diksha to Pramukh Swami. Give me a single point why you are calling BAPS to be vimukh. It is the Pure parampara of Akshar Brahman through whom Shreeji Maharaj is working today. Why will you call the BAPS vimukh just because they believe Shreeji Maharaj to be Sarvopari or because of believing Gunatitanand Swami to be Akshar Brahman. Look at how many people have come upon the path of Liberation through BAPS. Every Satsangi of BAPS follows Stree Purush marayada properly, Clear concept of what we should be doing in Satsang. Today if someone asked Whether there is any one like Bhagwan Swaminarayan's Paramhansas alive on earth then there will be only Pramukh Swami Maharaj and his Sadhus to be shown.

What is BAPS doing wrong???? They built the Mandirs in Bochasan, Gadhada where it was Shreeji Maharaj's sankalp to sit with his Uttam Bhakta. The Upasana is very clear that we have to become Aksharroop in order sit in Akshardhaam which is mentioned in somany places in even Vachanmrut(Eg Loya 12). We believe that Maharaj is pragat on this earth through his Ekantik Bhakta. Pramukh Swami's Devotion towards Maharaj is so much that Maharaj would always like to reside in him(It doesn't mean Pramukh Swami is god, we never think like that).

And where did you hear about BAPS going against the Acharyas or entering into Debate with them. If you are talking about the Swaroop Nishtha of Shreeji Maharaj then Shreeji Maharaj comes first and then Acharya. The belief that Shreeji Maharaj, NarNarayan, Laximi Narayan, Radha Krishna are one would be false because he himself has mentioned that he is Aksharaatit and Sarva Avatari. Even Prahalad knew that "Matrudevo Bhavah, Pitru Devo Bhavah" But when it came to his Bhakti, he never compromised.

There is no way that Pramukh Swami would speak ill about Acharyas even in privacy But the Sidhhant that Swaminarayan Bhagwan is Sarvopari and Gunatitanand Swami is Mool Akshar has always been and will be Eternal.

Jai Swaminarayan

baps isn't apart of the SWAMINARAYAN SAMPRADAYA! The are a cultish offshot, of the true sect.

What makes you say that the BAPS is not Swaminarayan Sampraday?????

Out of all the Organisations BAPS sadhus are the ones who follow every aagna of Lord Swaminarayan, They are the only ones practising Ashtang Brahmacharya. Look at the work BAPS is doing, 775 sadhus with proper detachment to women and wealth, the activities, the Mandirs and more over the GURU HDH Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Try and find one Sadhu Like Pramukh Swami Maharaj in the World today. This shows the presence of Shreeji Maharaj here.

BAPS IS A PROPER SWAMINARAYAN SAMPRADAY

no they follow a philosophy which shri Ramanauj Acharya doesnt reccomend in his Bhashya. The Akshar Purshottam Sanstha.

Ramanauj Acharya established Vishishtadvait which had three entities in it i.e., Jiva, Maya and Ishwara whereas Lord Swaminarayan's Philosophy of NavyaVishishtadvait upholds five eternal entities i.e., Jiva, Ishwara, Maya, Brahman, ParaBrahman. He was a Learned Scholar aswell, He cleared the doubts of Scholars in Kashi in a Shaastrath regarding NavyaVishishtadvait. For More explaination visit BapsdotOrg.

Srila Prabupada has strictly mentioned not to fall prey to anyone claiming themselves to be GODS,its a big sin to not follow Krsna and consider some one else as GOD.

As you guys beleive in the words of your guru Srila Prabupada, In the same way the guru parampara of swaminarayan sampraday (BAPS) has explained the Supremacy of Lord Swaminarayan over the other Avatars. Mul Akshar Murti Gunatitanand Swami (The Incarnation of Akshar Brahman) has explained the Sumpremacy of Lord Swaminarayan clearly. Not only that, the paramhansas have written their own experiences with Lord Swaminarayan and about his Supremacy.

Other thing is that the Swaminarayan fellowship is a proper Sampraday, It has its own concept of Tatva Gnan given by Lord Swaminarayan i.e., about Jiva, Ishwara, Maya, Brahman and Para Brahman. It has its own Bhashya on Gita and other Scriptures. The concepts of Brahman and Para Brahman is crystal clear in BAPS. And also the process of Jiva's Atyantik Moksha is very clear i.e., we have to become Brahmanised and then do the Bhakti of ParaBrahman(Lord Swaminarayan). The Abode of Lord Swaminarayan is Akshardham and is not either Vaikunth or Golok or Badrikashram. With so much in this sect, it cannot be compared to any rootless organisations. There can be no comparison of Swaminarayan Sampraday with Sai Baba or any other Sects of Hinduism.

Jai Swaminarayan

Hello Friends,

I just went through all the posts regarding Lord Swaminarayan. I am basically from South India and have recently joined the BAPS sect of Swaminarayan. According to my opinion, nothing is wrong with BAPS organisation. They follow the teachings of Lord Swaminaryan as laid down, In fact this is the only organisation in the whole world with 775 saints following Ashtang Brahmacharya and they do not touch money. Practising Brahmacharya is not an easy thing for the young ones while living in the society. It is the strength of the guru and divine presence Lord Swaminarayan that is working in BAPS. The guru HDH Pramukh Swami Maharaj is an ideal devotee of Lord Swaminarayan, we should think twice before saying anything about such a great Bhakta of Bhagwan.

For every bhakt his Bhagwan is sarvopari for him. Because Krishna Bhagwan said in Gita that he is sarvopari, the vaishnavs believe him to be sarvopari. In the same way Swaminarayan Bhagwan has mentioned in the Vachanmrut that he is Sarvopari and Sarva avatari. Look at the work done in society today by BAPS, The New Delhi Akshardham, The mandirs throughout the world, The Satsang Centres, Activities for Youth and Children, and most importantly the Sadhuta (Saintliness) of Pramukh Swami Maharaj, If the work done by them is Sarvopari when compare to any other organisation in the world then whats wrong about their Lord to be Sarvopari. The head of the Sadhu Samaj in India once said that even though I am the head of saints in India but the head of Saintliness is Pramukh Swami Maharaj. What ever activities that are taking place in BAPS is just for the Liberation of the Jivas.

Even though Bhagwan Swaminarayan mentioned Krishna Bhagwan in Shikshapatri but in Shloka 101 he says -"Those portion of these Shastras which explain the merits of knowledge of the form of Lord Shri Krishna, of Dharma, of Bhakti and of Vairagya (non-attachment) in highest terms only Shall be treated as taking precedence over all other portions. The sum and substance of all these Shastras is Bhakti of Lord Krishna with Dharma."

And in Shlok 203 he says-"I have thus described above in short, general and special Dharmas of all My followers. For further details, they shall refer to other Shastras of My Sampraday"

In shlok 203, he dind't mention to refer Gita or Bhagwat, he said Sampraday Scriptures. The Scripture of the Sampraday is Vachanamrut (Discourses of Lord Swaminarayan). And from Shlok 101 he tried to say that we should give importance to the talks related to the Knowledge of the form of Lord Krishna. By Lord Krishna he meant the Lord of the Sampraday which he was himself. And in Vachanmrut he clearly mentions himself to be the Sarvopari Bhagwan. If Lord Swaminarayan and Krishna Bhagwan are same then why would he install Laxmi Narayan and himself in Vadtal. The work of Lord Swaminarayan, the Samadhi Prakran, his talks, his vartan, his Paramhansas, the Ekantik Dharma pravartan, clear concept of Brahman and ParaBrahman, Practical ways of achieving Brahmic State etc and so many other facts show that he is Sarvopari. Like sage Ved Vyas has written the Mahima of Lord Krishna, In the same way his Paramhansas have written the Mahima of Lord Swaminarayan.

These are just few points to show that why Swaminarayan followers should believe Lord Swaminarayan to be Sarvopari. 775 saints have not become sadhus just like that, even they have studied scriptures, the vedas, Brahmasutras etc...

Also I have seen that many have said BAPS is Vimukh and does whatever it wants to do. I do not agree with these ideas. BAPS is not vimukh, Shastriji Mahraj (3rd Spiritual Successor of Lord Swaminarayan) had to leave vadtal because of Bhagwan Swaminarayan's principle. He tried his best and also had convinced many big heads in Vadtal about the Akshar Purushottam concept. Acharya Raghuvirji Maharaj gained the Brahmic state from Gunatitand Swami(Akshar Brahman). More over if Acharya's were true successors of Lord Swaminarayan then why was Laxmi Prasad Acharya was removed??? due to his Rajoguni Behaviour and Addictions. And more over many of the Acharyas are not the true family of Maharaj, they have been adopted. When the first Acharya was intiated on Samvat Kartik Sud 11, Their is a Vachanamrut on this date which doesn't show any statement of such intiation that took place on that day. I do not intend to criticize Acharyas but with all due respects to the Acharyas, BAPS is not Vimukh because Akshar Brahman himself has taken up Shreei Mahraj's work in this organisation i.e., Pramukh Swami Maharaj. Out of all the great Spiritual Leaders in India Pramukh Swami has been awarded The Most Influenial personality by Guiness Book Of World records and he really is. As Lord Swaminarayan said In Gadhada I - 27 that he resides in every indriya of his Ekantik Sant, Pramukh Swami is such Ekantik Sant with Lord Swaminarayan Pragat in him (this doesn't make Pramukh Swami God). He is a true discple of Lord Swaminarayan bring many Jivas on the path of Atyantik Kalyan. No offence but Look around the world and try to find one person like Pramukh Swami Maharaj.

I just said what ever I felt right after coming into BAPS and learning about the Sampraday.

Jai Swaminarayan.