Bhakta Don Muntean

There is no 'zionist agenda' of which you speak! The only 'zionist agenda' that exists is that which is trying to see a homeland for Jews - where they won't endure anymore pogroms - where they won't be persecuted [and worse] - for being Jewish. That there are so many in our world - still planting these seeds - is evidence of a need for this Homeland - for those wishing to go there. Is the world ever going to stop persecuting them for this? I cannot believe that there are so many people who just don't get it.... ...In this battle, every inch counts... http://news./s/ap/20051014/...rier_battles_2 [note that old news link is now inoperative] Here is this nice quote again: "It is better to have ten inches to stand upon than a hundred yards to fall." [Avoth d'Rab. Nathan, chap. 1] Let’s take a look at something else that seems of importance here: And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne unto Abraham, making sport. Wherefore she said unto Abraham: 'Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.' And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight on account of his son. And God said unto Abraham: 'Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah saith unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall seed be called to thee. And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.' And Abraham arose up early in the morning, and took bread and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away; and she departed, and strayed in the wilderness of Beer-sheba. And the water in the bottle was spent, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bow-shot; for she said: 'Let me not look upon the death of the child.' And she sat over against him, and lifted up her voice, and wept. And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her: 'What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him fast by thy hand; for I will make him a great nation.' And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. And God was with the lad, and he grew; and he dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer [Genesis 21.9-20] And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah, the daughter of Bethuel the Aramean, of Paddan-aram, the sister of Laban the Aramean, to be his wife. And Isaac entreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD let Himself be entreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived. And the children struggled together within her; and she said: 'If it be so, wherefore do I live?' And she went to inquire of the LORD. And the LORD said unto her: Two nations are in thy womb, and two peoples shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger. And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. And the first came forth ruddy, all over like a hairy mantle; and they called his name Esau. And after that came forth his brother, and his hand had hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob. And Isaac was threescore years old when she bore them. And the boys grew; and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a quiet man, dwelling in tents. Now Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison; and Rebekah loved Jacob. And Jacob sod pottage; and Esau came in from the field, and he was faint. And Esau said to Jacob: 'Let me swallow, I pray thee, some of this red, red pottage; for I am faint.' Therefore was his name called Edom. And Jacob said: 'Sell me first thy birthright.' And Esau said: 'Behold, I am at the point to die; and what profit shall the birthright do to me?' And Jacob said: 'Swear to me first'; and he swore unto him; and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. And Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way. So Esau despised his birthright. {P} [Genesis 25.20-34] Since the time of the renewal of modern Israel - the Arab's have had an ill perception of being cheated - the Arabs and especially the Palestinians - are now looking to these ancient passages to try to justify their angry hate for their close cousins? The leaders in modern Israel should be aware of this perception and - the propensity for groups like the evangelicals and radical Islamists - to calculate these points like - "the children struggled together within her" - how could they ill-calculate that? It is very important to see the ancient karma that is playing out here. This is a time for REAL understanding - even in the face of pain - it isn't a time for building walls! Jerusalem is to have a new Temple - a House of Prayer for all Nations - and that includes the Arab Nations. It is time to move forward before the age of quarrel usurps the entire situation - to end it in total chaos. Both parties have to consider: "It is better to have ten inches to stand upon than a hundred yards to fall." [Avoth d'Rab. Nathan, chap. 1]

If you read this thread: http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/spiritual-discussions/40918-origins-satan-myth-impact-global-politics-15.html You'll see that I well understand the evangelical slant - I also understand much more! As for all your anti-jew chosen people stuff and all that other rhetoric: But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig-tree; and none shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken. 5 For let all the peoples walk each one in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. [Micah 4.4] All of them—as they surrender unto Me—I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prtha. [bG 4.11] Yes the 'storm god' told me that!

You can go on Jewish message boards, and see the constant lambasting of goyim (non-Jews) Or you can come to this and - other sites - and see the same lambasting of Jews - so where to go from here? Some of us - on all sides - know that there are going to be these types of people who place some sort of ego ahead of everything else. We do not ALL have to be sucked into this improper perspective. One’s success or defeat in any activity is understood by its result? We read things like: "Jewish god commands: You must destroy all the nations the Lord your God hands over to you. Show them no mercy, and do not worship thier gods, or they will trap you. Deuteronomy 7:16" Yet whomever quoted this - did so - ignorant of many factors - in fact this 'god's chosen people' discussion was dealt with here [note: the discussion is a few pages at least]: http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/spiritual-discussions/40918-origins-satan-myth-impact-global-politics-3.html In that thread we get into the nity gritty of these issues - i think it's a good read - of course my own so-called political views have - expanded - in some areas [i've been called a neocon now ] since this thread was created and closed. Without doubt too much of the political in our world is in a state of constant point and counter-point. What are the issues behind these point and counter-point scenarios? Well let's look at these quotes from Srila Prabhupada: The age of Kali is the most condemned age due to its quarrelsome features. Kali-yuga is so saturated with vicious habits that there is a great fight at the slightest misunderstanding. [sB 1.1.16, Purport] But due to the age of quarrel, Kali, which we have discussed, there is always a chance of quarrel on slight provocation. This is due not to the issue in question but to the polluted atmosphere of this age. [Room Conversation, 06/25/76] So whether the issues are religious racial economic - whatever - the real issue is just that: there is always a chance of quarrel on slight provocation. This is due not to the issue in question but to the polluted atmosphere of this age So where does that lead to? There are two classes of men those who are sober and grave and those who are delusional and unrestrained. How the other factors - such as racial and religious tensions play into it are secondary to these facts. We need to see that our world is suffering in kali yuga - the age of quarrel. We further need to see that it isn't so much of these factors like economics and race and religion that we need to work through - it's an understanding of the polluted atmosphere of this age - that we need to work on - from a collective stand-point. Of course any discussions about the polluted atmosphere of this age is going to become heated too as ones sins are another's vices - but - who can deny reactive results? The thing that is most polluting in this age is the mentality of people and - how did it get there? How did everyone get to hate everyone else? Envy? could that figure into it anywhere? So to the point here - if I have one at all - let's look at the class of peoples and individuals and the nature of reactive results and see where the problem is. Now if you are dealing with someone who wishes to exterminate you - how can you use diplomacy? When Krishna went to Duryodana and said 'give but five villages and there will be no war' - what did the egotistic Duryodana say? 'no - not even the earth you could fit on the tip of a pin' - just like that - are these hamas groups and - others! How is it the fault of Israel if there are all these people around the world who also say that essentially Israel has no right to exist? A ksatriya is not supposed to refuse to battle or gamble when he is so invited by some rival party...Obligation is actually binding when the effect is good, but when the effect is otherwise, then no one can be bound. [bG, 1.37, Purport] So on the matter of self defense according to Vedic injunctions there are six kinds of aggressors such as: one who attacks with deadly weapons and - one who kidnaps - such aggressors are to be killed and - no sin is incurred by killing such aggressors. That is the position of the Leaders in Israel right now - the 'aggressors' kidnapped the soldiers and then began attacks with deadly weapons - the situation is clear! So one might say that Israel is the aggressor due to occupation of that land - but - that isn't so. Of course I'll be called names for saying this but - Israel now exists because - it's the will of God. As it is said, not a blade of grass moves without the will of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. [bG 7.21, Purport] So are we all going to be victims or are we going to do as Prabupada says: This age of Kali will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali. In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. It is the duty of the executive heads of state and others to take all necessary actions against the activities of Kali or the persons influenced by the age of Kali [bG 1.17.28, Purport] So are not the terrorists in our world aggressors? Are they not agents of quarrel? Here is a quote that fits the situation: The demon Yaksas are by nature very heinous, and by their demoniac power of illusion they can create many strange phenomena to frighten one who is less intelligent. [sB 4.10.28] So that is sort of speaking to terrorists and their Methods of Operation? One last point - to the many leaders - specifically Mr. Putin - who are using this "disproportionate" argument against Israel - what about Chechnya? Is their actions there "disproportionate"? One could make the argument?

You say "Prabhupada said" - where? Got a quote? You should try to see things as they are and - what is wrong with the simple graphics that I post? They are the truth aren't they? You're looking to a nuclear war to save yourself from having to look at them?

Too many - even one is too many...

...

Quote: Would the Europeans rather have Israel move into Gaza and Lebanon and start taking hostages? That would be more "proportionate . . ." Reply: Exactly! It's odd that the E.U. is already showing it's bias against Israel - is it [partly] due to the large number of - radical islamists - seemingly already in europe? God will not permit the loss of Israel and that's that! There cannot be discussions for peace with groups and individuals that wish to see your extermination! Sincere peace are not signed in those circumstances.

So how did this lobby induce the abductions? Seems the logic is lacking in that point?

Yes - that is the exact point and to the point too - thank-you!

ONE DOES NOT PITY A MURDERER WHEN HANGED - RIGHT? These guys are worse than the average murderer - they kill for reasons that'll have them in hell for a long long long long long time - like forever it'll seem to them.

HELLO?

So it looks like the freaks who ascribe to terror are making things worse - now there are justified IDF strikes on Lebanon and - what looks like a warning to Syria and - of course - that blood thirsty despot in Iran [i refuse to use his name] is trying to make threats now too [using the term "zionist regime" - yet he has a problem with us who call his country a "terrorist regime" - he can try to defend Syria - but what shall be the result? So let them all see - ISRAEL AND THE [free] WORLD SHALL PREVAIL. As Prime Minister Harper has said - Israel's response has been measured - under these circumstances.

I was banging because you placed north korea with Israel! That is like placing Canada with Iran! Get your juxtapositions in line with reality - okay!?

"who probably has the biggest artillary in the world" WHO SOLD THESE "artillary" TO THEM? CHINA? RUSSIA? WHO?

Damned bastards [to start with] - they are ONLY MADE WORSE by their propensity to kill to push-on their stupid plans for global-theocracy - replete with evil and cowardly terror plans to reach it - DREAM ON YAH EVIL FREAKS! MAY GOD HELP THE AUTHORITIES EXTERMINATE THOSE THAT CAUSE THIS TERROR PROBLEM... So here is something of curiosity: "Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf offered condolences over the loss of life, the Foreign Ministry said, adding: "Terrorism is a bane of our times and it must be condemned, rejected and countered effectively and comprehensively." New Delhi has accused Pakistan of training, arming and funding the militants. Islamabad insists it only offers the rebels diplomatic and moral support." http://ca.news./s/11072006/2/world-8-explosions-hit-commuter-trains-mumbai-india-147-dead.html So what is wrong there? "Islamabad insists it only offers the rebels diplomatic and moral support" - so how does that jive with: Terrorism is a bane of our times and it must be condemned, rejected and countered effectively and comprehensively - so how does that happen while Pakistan; "offers the rebels diplomatic and moral support"? So how long does the free world tolerate this nonsense? When do these freaks make even gentlemen want to hunt them down? Can't be too long now?

Prabhupada is present in his instructions....if we are attached to Prabhupada - then we'll have neither problem - because Prabhupada is accessible in his books - we don't need the GM nor - do we really need Iskcon - if we cannot succeed in an independent position - then I doubt that either camp could be of any service to aspiring transcendentalists.

...me tooo!

...but one cannot do nonsense [in the case; irregular fighting in war] and call it karma...

"we the most tolerant and openminded religion in the world" Clearly it's lost on you though?