Bhakta Don Muntean

Why don't you stop fooling yourself and just go surrender [become one of] to those crazy Islamists then you'll feel better right? Oh and there will NOT be any mass exodus out of Israel....

Just see how things have gone - Kirtanananda should be in jail yet and here he is getting respect from GBC? How long before they invite him [it] back in? Prabhupada must be livid right now.

Thank you for your kind and encouraging words! With respect to the noted quote [sB 1.17.28, purport] Prabhupada is casting a wider net than 'vaishnava' in his use of these words: this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord So with that we see that he places the greatest responsibility on the devotees of the Lord - however - he clearly mentions non-vaishnava's with the use of these words; the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men - do you see what I mean here? Of course he presents a very rigid standard in that purport - one where he seems to have no mercy for people who indulge in intoxication. We do know that when we form a point we have to counter it to his other statements and clearly Prabhupada wasn't merciless and wanting to kill those who could not rise above their attachments to intoxicants - so what is he saying then? In this one other purport - he says: In this material world every living entity has got natural propensity for sex life, meat-eating and intoxication. There is already propensities. You haven’t got to teach. Nobody teaches in the school how to enjoy sex life. Everyone knows. So these things are natural. Then why it has been taken by the Vedas? This should be the question, that “Without marriage, sex life is going on. Why this show of marriage?” People may question this. But there is need. Because Vedas have taken this marriage. Marriage is Vedic. So why Vedas have taken this marriage? No, to restrict it. Without marriage, sex life (is) unrestricted. And as soon as it comes to the Vedic principles, it becomes restricted. So the idea is to restrict. People are accustomed to this habit, and on account of this habit, they gradually become implicated with the laws of material nature. Therefore there is some restriction. Just like anyone can distill liquor at home. It is not very difficult thing. Anyone can do it. In India they do it. It is called dheno-mada. Dheno-mada means... Mada means liquor, and dheno means from rice. Just like we cook rice, so you cook rice and keep it in water for a few days or for a month, it becomes liquor. It becomes liquor. So why government has restricted, “No, you cannot manufacture liquor; you have to purchase from the licensed shop.” Why? That is restriction. If the government would have allowed that “You can distill liquor and drink it,” then there was no limit. Everyone would have. There is no restriction. So restriction is required. Why? It is because it is bad. Nobody restricts that “You don’t manufacture chapati.” No. [Lecture SB, 1.8.52] ...although the government may license liquor shops, this does not mean that liquor shops should be opened unrestrictedly and illicit liquor smuggled. Licensing is meant for restricting. No one has to take a license for sugar, wheat or milk because there is no need to restrict these things. [sB 4.22.24, purport] If we become even partially pure...then lust and greed, the material diseases of the citizens, will be reduced. [sB 4.20.21, purport] In your quote [ [sB 4.26.5 Purort] Prabhupada connects the sufferings in war - to the human abuse and slaughter of animals [a problem that is found in every nation on the planet] - yet - the immediate causes of the suffering may be something else - like terrorists acting in the modes of passion and ignorance. However - this doesn't make the terrorists into 'agents of karma'. This brings a question - which is - if these wars are caused by the noted actions of the global populations - does that then support that we should just let karma unfold and take its course or - do we do as Prabhupada notes - not sit down 'tightly' and become callous to the reactions of kali yuga and - those driven by it. He says: In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. [sB, 1.17.28, purport] Responsible leaders have to see the proper application of such changes - according to the particular time circumstances and - the segments of society concerned. Prabhupada places responsibility [for action] on nearly every sane person to do something about this problem and - for some it means fighting terror. Of course - if we really want to reduce the risks of this age we are as a collective going to have to do something about the polluted atomosphere of this age. Meat eating and unrestricted sex-life are the two worst factors in this polluted age - but - just like when there is a fire - when the bucket brigade comes - do they stand around talking about the cause of the fire or - do they put it out? Sort of like that is our situation. It would be nice if people would understand these two points and see that this is the basic issue - and no - it doesn't take 'conversion' to see and - deal with it. I wonder though - when there is this time of emergency - we must pass the buckets and - we'll see about the causes and - we'll see to the collective 'redactions' to our ways later - after the threat is gone. Again - thank you for your kind words - may the Supreme Personality guide and protect you at all times and in all places! Yer servant,

Didn't Prabhupada cook with hing? JnDas has answered this point with this: No puja after consuming Hing - so - why not say no hing and set the example by not using it - Prabhupada used it - are you saying that he was in the mode of passion? That he was inducing others into the mode of passsion?

You can present the facts in only so many ways - they see or they don't. You mentioned superstition in your previous reply and that is what i see too - accepting and rejecting things this way is without profit. Mentioning tomatoes [a wonderful fruit that Krishna likes] and silly food superstitions - there were christians once - who eschewed them because they may have been like the fruit from the tree that Adam and Eve took the apple from.

I've never seen a prep with carrot that is offered to our murtis rejected - as when it [any offering rejected] is it doesn't taste very nice. Carrots are good - for me it's about no meat fish eggs onion garlic mushrooms and vinegar - the rest is pretty much ok.

Good egg replacer for baking - mix [whatever kind of] batter [you're making] then in another small bowl combine 2 table spoons of [kosher] yogurt with 1/4 teaspoon of baking powder - mix them and it shall become fluffy [within 30 seconds] - like whipped egg whites - then fold that mixture very carefully into the batter and pour into pans and bake as usual - this produces the best results!

This age of Kali will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali. In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. It is the duty of the executive heads of state and others to take all necessary actions against the activities of Kali or the persons influenced by the age of Kali... [sB 1.17.28, purport] So what do we suppose he meant here? He even gives us an example in the rains - we do not send a chanting party to deal with the rains - we send people with tools and materials to deal with the onslaught of rains. Also in this way we can see that the terrorists - who really aren't ever going to change - what they want to do is change our world - not just the west nut all of it - and we're not talking change that any of the regions targeted would embrace to easily. So these terrorists are clearly in the mode of ignorance - they clearly fit what Krishna himself says: Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance—these qualities belong to those of demonic nature, O son of Prtha. [bG 16.4] Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them. [bG 16.7] Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes perform sacrifices in name only without following any rules or regulations. Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body and in the bodies of others, and blasphemes against the real religion. [bG 16.17-18] So that is a clear description of these agents of quarrel. Here are other good quotes: It appears that even in the higher planetary systems, to which people are promoted by pious activities, disturbances are created by asuras like Hiranyakasipu. No one in the three worlds can live in peace and prosperity without disturbance. [sB 7.4.9-12, purport] Demons can do anything for their personal benefit, not considering what is pious or vicious. [sB 10.4.4, purport] Nothing happens unless ordained by destiny. [sB 10.4.5, purport] Recall king Kansa's heinous actions in killing his sisters children - just see how he tried to twist 'truth' to excuse himself before his sister and her husband. Even Hiranyakasipu spoke wise sounding words - yet without a doubt he was a demon. The demigods fought demons like him and - still do without a doubt. So when humans get that bad - aren't we supposed to fight them to stop them?? You mention sending a chanting party to Israel - heck why not send this party to all the nations like Iran Lebanon Syria - send them there and what would be the result? What could they see in Israel that they couldn't in those other places? Some respect from the people there? What do you think?

"I could continue the history lesson if you want." Yes that you could do that might help here - some don't want to hear it - but many more might - so if you have some time I'd say - please post this!

No the facts are that Hezbolla was permitted to form a state within a state - they were permitted to form an army along side the national army in Lebanon - they are sitting [as elected members] in the government. So with U.N. resolution 1559 it was resolved that Hezbollah would be disarmed - why didn't that happen? Where were the efforts to do this - by the Lebanese government or - anyone else - for that matter. So now we have a situation where the allegedly progressive government of Lebanon is bemoaning the results of all this. Where was this government to prevent the abduction of the two servicemen? Where was this government - where was it's national army when this happened? Taking part in it no doubt. Now we hear that the Lebanese army will help Hezbollah fight! Indeed things look very bad in this operation - but - that is what you get with urban warfare - still people are thinking battlefields - but these are no more - instead wars are fought in cramped and crowded urban areas - so ask yourself - is Hezbollah using these urban areas as a base and - as a shield? You too think that the state of Israel is not legitimate and I don't think you would shed a single tear if it were disolved - especially if by force. This situation can be resolved - only to do this the free world has to at last confront political and religious extremists and put an end to the extremism - if not the extremists. When matters like this go from - push to shove - I'm amazed by the lines that might end up being be drawn - even here in the midst of vaishnavas...

I agree there shouldn't have to be ANY nukes or ANY weapons of mass destruction of any nature in this world - now of course - there are those that have them and - there are those that want them. So where does that leave the world now? Those that want them certainly wouldn't sit on them for decades - no - they want them - to use them. Now America and other nations which have them already - how did they get them? Under what circumstances? Of course it was the Cold War and the arms race with the U.S.S.R - we can see now in retrospect that neither side would have used them and - neither side did use them. So could the same be said of nations - like north korea and Iran? Why do they want a weapons system of this nature? To create another cold war? Not very likely! They want these weapons - so that they can use them. Of course in a globalized world - where there are movements of people from one nation to another - the future delivery system of their nukes won't be missiles at all - they must be hoping to fashion them to be small enough to carry on [or in] the person. Just see their current human-bombing program to see that! Every where there are innocent masses not wanting to think that there are people in this world - so deranged - so as to want to create and use such evil weapons but - there are people like that. So in the short term - nations - like Israel [and America] - having to have nukes - well that is for the best - during this time in history - because it is a means to deter attacks from the nations round about Israel [and others in the case of north america] - as some of these rogue nations have groups who are taking power [through failed democracy!] and - they wish to put an end to the State of Israel. So of course they are trying - some of them - to develope these weapons - so that they can initiate a free for all nuclear hell - isn't that so? Isn't it time for our world to put an end to the propensity of some to go tight-rope walking the razor's edge of perdition - in the age of quarrel - at everyone else's risk? Of course there are nations - like north korea - where a state cult has them all brainwashed to live in hell - on the plea of future glory! I know all the despots and demons are going to be vanquished one way or another - God isn't ignoring anything in this world - not a blade of grass moves without the sanction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. These are special times coming in our world - just see how God shall usurp everything! Yer servant,

Quote: Iran & N. korea is going on the way you have passed. Reply: What do you mean? Quote: You made a model for them. Reply: Again - what do you mean? Please don't be afraid to use more words in your postings - better for discussion. I'm sorry if i was seeminly being a snob - trust me - i'm not a snob.

Sorry Jesus isn't the messiah... Hari Bolo!

Again - simple facts posted by you [whomever you are] - wipe-out the rhetoric.

Yes very clear isn't it - especially: The Lebanese government is responsible for the adventures of Hezbollah. After all, as it claims to be the legitimate government of Lebanon, and not Hezbollah, it must act as a responsible government. It should not have allowed Hezbollah to become a state within a state, and to form an army alongside the Lebanese Army. There is no doubt that the government of Lebanon and its head of state are completely responsible for the actions of Hezbollah. They should have thought about the consequences of an Israeli response, and its impact upon the Lebanese people.

Here is the 'burning bush' i saw: Quote: a god who pretends to be better than all the other gods in the neighborhood Reply: Whatever a man may sacrifice to other gods, O son of Kunti, is really meant for Me alone, but it is offered without true understanding. I am the only enjoyer and the only object of sacrifice. Those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down. [bG 9.23-24] The differences between a demigod-worshipper and a devotee of Lord Krsna are wide and numerous. [RTW 2.11] Neither the hosts of demigods nor the great sages know My origin, for, in every respect, I am the source of the demigods and the sages. [bG 10.2] Sound like He too is making claims to be 'better than all the other gods'. Yes Suchandra - God is: O-N-E - despite that we are many...

Iran isn't far from India on the maps i've seen and I think that the radical political problems in Iran are also there in India - the Islamic revolution has designs on India - you do know that don't you? As for North Korea - well if they launch a nuke - it'll effect India and most every other nation too. So again - I wonder about your post where you seemingly lambaste India for having presently mostly good relations with the U.S. administration - of course - so do the Pakistanis - so - why is that bad? Is it because the Islamists are angry about it?

That is exactly what I'm doing here - all this time - in all these discussions...

So please confirm if you can send samples and quote.

Yes thanx the pic is neat - i hope. You wrote: "The original Hebrews were henotheists." The same is often said of those who serve Vishnu too. Of course i think you should consider that Vishnu is regarded by some as being formed out of a minor sun god? [i know i know - but that is what maya does - obscures things like this] Even if we are to see it this way - God has countless plenary expansions - all reflecting some pastime/task-related aspect - so in the proper perspective - the God of the Hebrews is indeed God - VISHNU - especially if we see it as an so-called evolution from hedonism based gods - to understanding that there really is only one God - one enjoyer. This could be said of the so-called evolution of Vishnu - again - in the Gita we see: All of them—as they surrender unto Me—I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prtha. [bG, 4.11] Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary... [bG, 7.23] Whatever a man may sacrifice to other gods, O son of Kunti, is really meant for Me alone, but it is offered without true understanding. [bG, 9.23] So that is sort of what He is saying here: I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. [Exodus 20.2] And in all things that I have said unto you take ye heed; and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. [Exodus, 23.13] So there it is - He says 'I did this thing for you and now I'm going to look after you so please try to see who I am and don't follow after others' - in fact - in the narrative where Moses encountered the burning bush - when Moses asked who He was He said [in a close rendering of the Hebrew] - "I will be whomever I will be" - not just the translated - "I Am" - so figure that. So when He says no others before Me - He asked this understanding of them: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is greater than all, is attainable by unalloyed devotion. Although He is present in His abode, He is all-pervading, and everything is situated within Him. [bG 8.22]

Yes - I'm aware of what they think - they are thinking that the State of Israel cannot be re-newed without the advent of Messiah - of course - one might say that Messiah has already been born [see micah 5.2: Therefore will He give them [beth-lehem ] up, until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth; then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel " so- they aught to consider - all this return to the Land of Israel is being driven by God - in advance of his [messiah's not God's] formal appearance on the scene. It is thought that Messiah would be born in Beth-lehem - but that is not so - because in Micah we are seeing a discussion of the loss of the State - that happened in about 30 C.E. - it wasn't but 1900+ years later - in 1967 - that Beth-lehem again was part of a State of Israel. So from that passage we can see that he and the residue of his brethren shall return to Israel. So he is not born there - his maternal family orgin is there. He was to be born around this time - June 05, 1967. You of course do not accept any of this messianic age stuff so this is most obviously going to be lost on you - but we were talking about Hasidic Jews and what they think. As for the zionist movement being the cause of suffering - I don't think so - the reactions of those who are improperly threatened by this movement have precipitated conflicts and that has lead to suffering. There are a great many orthodox jews who do support the real effort of real zionism and - those that don't - shall one day do so.

Of course - unless it's obvious from my other postings in recent months - I no longer feel that the Bush Admin. is a bad thing for mid-east peace...