gopal

Thanks for all the wonderful quotes!

Its Holiness BVI brings to mind a remarkable person I knew years ago, when hitchhiking through a yoga commune. At that time he was only Jesus, and spent the evening wooing my friend and I with his wonders, but he never succeeded in getting to the stage of extending his teachings to us in the bedroom.

Years later I saw him at Rathayatra , and he had advanced to gopihood. I do not know which gopi he was, but there were many like him, long haired, some bearded, dressed in saris and ankle bells. I am sorry I did not take him seriously when he was Jesus. I could have been one of his first disciples and would have been able to say "I knew him when".

All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to the devotees!

Hare Krishna, to keep it straight for Stonehearted, your post was not offensive and I apolgise for insinuating such by saying it was perhaps tasteless. Before that, I had stated that you made good points and that gHari's insults toward you were not befitting him, as you are a Vaisnava and his elder both. As a result, his offensive post has been changed. Living entity had nothing to do with it as far as I could tell, as far as taking offense to your post, but merely objected to a general air threatening to maybe sully the thread. For the record, your balanced view is most welcome, at least by me. It makes your eulogies seem all the more genuine, and not some displaced sentiment. I will change this post once it's been seen by you. But I do not consider it incongruous on this thread to deal with matters of respectfulness among devotees; that is crucial to anyone making advancement, and it is never inappropriate to take a younger devotee to task when the need calls for it. Its our duty.

No your admonishment was good. It was probably as tasteless of me to comment as it was for Stonehearted to interrupt the eulogies as it was for gHari to speak as he did to Stonehearted. Great posts this morning, good points from jijai too. Let's keep it up, any chance to glorify a wonderful devotee on his passing is a chance to grab at.

So sorry mataji. But I felt it important to deal out a little advice before it got even more uncivil. George's greatness was his humility. And I believe he would appreciate devotees not being offended and instead being glorified. I get heated when I hear devotees casually assaulted or insulted. But that is all I will say on this, I promise you. All glories to Bhakta George!

George really is a humble devotee, and undoubtedly generous in the right ways. But let's not overlook other devotees, who also have done gloriously, however small it may seem to the mundane eye. It is crucial that we show respect and proper dealings with the Vaisnavas regardless of our estimation of their level of advancement or we will make no advancement ourselves. George represents such a humble state of mind, so it makes sense that if one's affection and honor toward him is more than mere sentiment, but is actually deepfelt, this will be seen in one's attitude toward all Vaisnavas.

(edited in deference to keeping more in mode with the thread)

[This message has been edited by gopal (edited 12-05-2001).]

Could it be that the devotees can relate to Krsna katha but not to valaya katha? Could it be that there is a difference between the sweet pastimes of the Lord and the bitter outlook of valaya? Could it be that devotees read the original post which spoke for itself and there for they chose not to make comment? Could it be that devotees did not see this thread? Could it be that valaya needs to spend less time speculating about others' motivations, realizations, personal relationships with guru and Krsna, and levels of advancement, and spend less time too, criticizing the general group here and more time contributing nectar himself or better yet shut up altogether?

Could it be that valaya has wrecked yet another great thread with his useless, envious, speculative, and bitter commentaries? Cute like a little boy someone said? More like a tantrum throwing egocentric little twit.

[This message has been edited by gopal (edited 10-21-2001).]

The 92 per cent figure is simplistic, biased, speculative, and wishful. In any poll various factors have to be cited such as what sector of the population was polled, under what circumstances, whether educated or not, etc. Details such as Bhaktavyasa's attest to this fact. Besides, even if 92 per cent were for, that doesn't mean they include the majority of Americans who basically don't think much further than their own sense gratification and dont have a clue whats going on.

Name calling on the other hand, does not support the other view, in any way shape or form. Just makes people laugh and shake their heads. Whatever someone does in their private life does not detract from the facts they present. Any discussion worth its salt will provide facts from both sides. Not this infernal inane immature and endless namecalling.

Originally posted by Janus:

Next: “When Worlds Collide.” But be comforted, this is “The Day the Earth Stood Still” and I… am the Master (Usually I just prefer to make the grass green, but I think I also have the ability to help you to the next step, to the next person, a greater Prabhu than I. I think that I can help you to the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada and to the lotus feet of many other Vaisnava’s who are ready to receive you. I still am empowered enough to change a world or two, might as well start on one that needs it badly, one where human life stands upon the brink of it’s greatest fulfillment, Krsna consciousness, or extinction.

I will need help however, from my prabhu’s, you, whose lotus feet I am in such a sad and silly habit of offending. Just yank me back when I go drifting off into my "Real" Universe, will you?

Hari bol.

 

 

I volunteer to do the first yanking, Bhakta George/Whyspery. You're intoxicated. Got to be, to be talking like this. We don't need your wishywashy catering to whoever flatters you kind of help.

Originally posted by valaya:

When Srila Gurudev is thinking himself to be the absolute least, lower than a `worm in stool`, without any love for Krsna whatsoever, how can his sincere disciple possibly consider himself/herself as anything more?

 

Since when is objecting to aparadhas against the guru equivalent to considering oneself more than the guru. What nonsense is spoken here.

 

Valaya: How much different would our relationships be if we all had this perspective? How naturally encouraging we would be to each other!

 

Yes and it starts within oneself.

 

Valaya: Prabhupada wanted us to actually see others as prabhu, did he not, therefore always automatically offering respects to everyone everywhere?

 

Prabhupada said some you must respect at a distant. Like I respect you as part and parcel of Krsna. He also said to choose your association carefully, even amongst the devotees living in the temple. what to speak of someone who fluctuates and repeatedly offends the devotees and guru.

 

Valaya:

 

Only from that firm foundation can we ever hope to chant the Holy Names continuously...and that, prabhus, is surely the bottom line if we are to actually become devotees rather than simply thinking of ourselves as such.

 

valaya RR

 

It starts with the self. And you certainly do not have something more to tell me than I already know from my guru. Or do you think your more than my guru as you yourself put it?

 

 

Analyzing the guru and listening to aparadh are two interiely different things. I hope most disciples have done the proper analysis before taking initiation> I think your point is off the track.

Are you a human encyclopedia on oldies but goldies? Are you a consultent to Stephen King? Best part of his books was the humor.

Good meassage there. Now how is this for accepting Prabhupad? Another from mr confused.

QUOTE]Originally posted by amanpeter:

Just for the record, prabhu, he is NOT my guru nor do I accept any other jiva soul, to the exclusion of others, in that role. My guru/God is Sri Radha ONLY, though I try to see Her in ALL others. I understand how important diksa and parampara are to you, but I believe as Divine Grace personified, in fact it's very source, She is beyond all that and nothing is impossible for Her. All necessary arrangements will be made in this or some future lifetime. At this point, thanks in no small part to my involvement with ISKCON, I am unable to see clearly who is who or what is what, let alone commit myself to anyone eternally but Her.

Originally posted by valaya:

Don't know if this refers to me or not, but I don't change previous posts to obscure their original message. valaya RR

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-12-2001).]

Constrast that with this:

Originally posted by amanpeter:

Is it not possible for us to erase our posts, like on VNN?

 

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 05-25-2001).]

Another from Valaya who says everything he knows is from Prabhupada:

"No kidding! Wait'll you hear who gave me the books--Siddheshvari Didi, one of Sri Kripalu Maharaja's main travelling sanyasi preachers in North America! Guess I'm a goner for sure!!!"

And more about Kripalu the known impersonalist whose books valay reads. Please note impersonalist isn't an insult. Its a fact. And Prabhupada is not an impersonalist who teaches impersonalism so what is this socalled learning?..

"They're only into their guru--BIGTIME! That's why she no longer wanted the books. Kripalu himself, however, accepts many saints and has no parampara. She and another of his woman preachers, one of the first, are based here in Toronto. I know both quite well, but do not associate with his followers or attend their satsangs, except sometimes on special occasions. Might go on Radhastami as we share similar feelings about Swamini Kisori and they appreciate my attachment to Her. Many former ISKCONites have joined them, because they found what they were missing there, sad to say."

The last sentence is the punchline. This is how much Valaya believes in the teachings of Prabhupada. According to him Prabhupada left soemthing out.

I admit, I have no tolerance for this hypocrisy:

Originally posted by valaya:

No criticism was ever intended towards His Divine Grace Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, to whom I personally credit any realizations I may have acquired and whom I consider fully surrendered to Sri Sri Radha-Krsna at all times.valaya RR

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-12-2001).]

Now contrast that statement with this (vlaya aka amanpeter lest anyone forgets)

Originally posted by amanpeter:

This and my previous quote from Srila Prabhupada are meant solely as a contribution to the philosophical discussion here. Neither is an expression of my own personal belief system. That revolves only around Srimati Radharani as the personification and source of Divine Grace. My conclusions are based on personal direct experience and merely confirmed by scripture.

Great message Janus! However methinks we flog a dead horse and leaving is better as one need not disturb any minds with truth for fear of inviting more offense. Those who have not or will not taste are without a hope of understanding.

You know what they say about birds of a feather? Just be aware if you value your creeper. Cautioning others against offenders is not at all contrary to scriptural injunctions.

Originally posted by Hedley:

You are so fake, Valaya. you pretend to be one thing one day and another on another day. Are you a politician?

I noticed this offender changed his originaly offending message some days ago so there is no concrete evidence left here. But those of us who have read enough of his messages know how he really feels about Srila Prabhupada and his disciples. But what is the use to try and talk to a dishonest person.

Originally posted by paul108:

I don't know that I can call this country the U.S.A. anymore after the scandal that passed as the most recent presidential election. I wonder why the news agencies will not release the results of their in-depth investigation into the ballot counting.

Payola or threats. Got to be.

Good question, Paul. Well one thing is sure, you can bet he has his bunker well equipped.

I'll side with Krsna and Arjuna too. Any other "siding" necessitates a fanatical stance in order to stick with it. That's why the simplistic unfair charges are continually made against those who are not "with us". Very scary, these types. Unless in God you trust.

Too true, Recruit, unfortunately. I agree and the simplistic statements of our patriots can be much scarier than those whose aims include noncorruption and peace. Statements like these crack me up:

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

This means, ironically enough, that we provide the food which gives those that chant "Death to America" the energy to do so.

Whose this "we" providing the food? More like He. Read Sri Isopanisad if you don't believe it. Someone just took custody of these fair lands and took away our basic rights to settle, build houses of our own choosing, and grow our own food. Who doesn't want to be self-sufficient? Who wants to depend on others' meager mercies? And who wants to be beholden to a corrupt government, with a track record that leaves its people (at least the more thoughtful ones) sorely lacking in trust. It is not a question of lazy hippies here. This is about the people in general, whose basic human rights have been stolen from them.

In God We Trust, yes!

Not in America as it is today.

As someone recentnly said here, best not to align ourselves too closely with the collective karma of this nation. I add to that, best not to align ourselves with mundane politics, when we as devotees know how a spiritual society runs.

Your right Recruit, nothing wrong with the ideals of the peaceniks, at least not on the level that this discussion is on, but I seriously question the ideals of those who seek to crush them.

Dandavats!