Sensible _bloke

I'm not blasting Ramana.But could you stop yourself from comparing a

Vaishnava with Ramana ? ? No.

 

People like you like to get fooled i guess.Oh,he's throwing fiyah from his mouth !!!

 

The other one is simply teaching veda,the real meaning of veda.

 

Lets go to the first one.Yay !!

 

This is your case.Ther's nothing new in this.Best of luck.

 

 

In the end,Haidakhan babaji could do nothing with ALL OF HIS YOGIC POWERS put to gether to rescue Yogananda.

 

I remember Yoganandas words,

"Christ,Krishna and Babaji are eternally present.They are working in union.Especially Christ and babaji."

 

"The goal of kriya yoga or whatever is to make this body spiritual/of light."

 

Who wants to make the body into light ?? I mean seriously.

 

When yogananda's master,contacted him from the Heavenly planets,he described of an 'eternal' world where they drink light and have 'evolved consiousness' i.e. siddhis and powers.Where there were 'divine' bodies.But he clearly stated that,"There are still defects in these bodies.This is merely a mediocre level.There are higher levels where the bodies are pure light."He very well was aware of the material defects present in the svarga loka.He thought it was some kind of lesser evolution.

 

Poor Yogananda was being given a first hand account of Svarga loka and wasn't even aware of it.If the goal of such exercises is merely heavenly planets,such yoga,etc is useless.

 

ANd you would be lying STRAIGHT to my face if you even think that Ramana could ever be a greater yogi than Babaji.It's not hard to figure the ignorance in the teachings of all these great but limited people.

Comparison is not blasting. It is Just that... comparison. I never compared Ramana and Babaji, I compared your Vaishnava with ramana....

Ramana who gave No Gyan and transmitted EXPERIENCES (no Fiya from mouth) versus "this God better than that" statements by the vaishnava in question.

Every "Body" is defective.. that is the whole point.... I dont see how Siddhi or anything that you say has anything to do with the conciousness.. The goal of Kriya Yoga or any yoga is to Yoke ... Go back to the source...the bodies are steps on the way which is what yogananda's master spoke of...

You can continue with your obfuscation and twisting out of context...

In any case I guess it is too much to expect anything else from a Dwaitin.

You Choose not to believe Vivekananda,... But expect people to accept your version of scriptures... Sorry bloke it does not work that way...

As expected no answer for my direct comparisons. And this REAL meaning of VEDA, REAL Meaning for the Gita.. makes me think that this REAL just belongs to a particular sect of vaishnavas which makes it a few dozen years old... In any case all the best... continue your REAL theories.

I guess that gentleman who warned me about talking to your group was right after all...

Im Off to find a River......

 

If i'm not wrong,Ramakrishna paramhamsa had special mercy of Jagadamba,who is Yogamaya.

The same site which proudly states the suprehuman feats of 'the' babaji,also states babajis confession that,'yogananda has been born in africa as a girl.'(Remember this is not my view.This purely comes from your side of the wall.)

 

Your views of samadhi are very unclear.It is so because,your lot consider atma as same as brahm.When you achieve atma-jnana through elimination of the ego,you go mad thinking you have becme brahm.But it is a fact that the jeevatma cannot overcome mahat and prakriti on his own.This is vedic fact.

 

Kaivalyam sattvikam gyanam.

Sattva sanjaayate jnyaanam.

You seem to read bits and pieces of all books (May be the bits and pieces that you are supposed to read).

In any case let me explain. Ramakrishna could not reach nirvikalpa Samadhi since he was drunk with love for the divine mother. Then along can an Advaitin called Totapuri. He had to force Ramakrishna to remove the image and attachment to Yogamaya. He in fact describes it as cutting apart the mental image to enter the undivided state.

The Practical fact is many people have done it. If you read Mahavatar Babaji's message (FULLY), he talks about jumping into the infinite current, but is deliberately holding on to an individual consciousness.

And Some one being born as a Girl.... Where did you get that from? Even if...So what?

For liberal free thinking people, a Girl is as good as a guy....

Originally Posted by Sensible _bloke

Have you heard of stilling the mind and being awash with waves of bliss??? That is called Samadhi

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Whoa! This is Novice talk.

 

We know what samadhi is.

 

Sense control that yields 'satisfaction-in-all-regards-without misgivings-and-without-hankerings' = Samadhi.

 

Your romance-novella understanding is not the case.

 

Samadhi is acheived by constant cultivation of yoga.

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The Nowhere-man ode:

Dear Cloud in the Imagination of my waking-state-Ego-Mind-Bodily senses --Please make me better than others--so I may feel aloof and superior to other beings--and I promise to relinquish all desires when I get old & retire to a cave in the frigid himalayas where the communists cannot find me nor where fire wood can be found. Please?

 

I'm man's best chance

and may nothingness be upon you, or bust;

yours truely pseudonym,

Sensible _bloke

Dear Mr. Expert...

Thank you for Your enlightening discourse. But as usual even the definition that you propound is twisted and in line with your ISKCON school of thought...

samadhi: (Sanskrit) "Enstasy," which means "standing within one's Self.Sameness; contemplation; union, wholeness; completion."

Samadhi is the state of true yoga, in which the meditator and the object of meditation are one.

Of course Samadhi is achieved by Yoga... What did you think..? Through Reading Puranas???

-----------------------------

I will substitute experience with printed paper,

and as a group seek to twist things out of context,

Just to prove a point that I have not internalised

the TRUE Bhaktha,

Bhaktajan

you mean ISKCON VIEW = the need of Bhagavan's mercy for overcoming

maya.

 

Are you challenging the authority of the vedas based on what a ramana mahrishi has proclaimed ??

 

If you think that i have made it all up,please say the word.Vedic evidence can be provided.You should be careful,for next time when you say such things,i will ask you to eat your words up,for they show clear ignorance of the vedic facts.

What ever the view be...it is irrelevant. I was wonderstruck at your level of intolerance.. Any way since you have the total mercy of Bhagwan, all the best.

I am talking about the experience that thousands of people had with Ramana. It is an experience... not a proclamation. It will not obviously make sense to a book trotting theorist.

I dont care about your vedic evidence, I care only about experience and do not to your version of the truth. I will give you a proof that is for all to see... day to day proof ......

I had written about some proof I had on a Guru... But the moderator who allows all and sundry views about any other spiritual Guru, seems to have a soft corner for this particular Guru and deleted my post. Let me reword it and see if this is acceptable.

Proof 1: Any method needs to produce bliss and tolerance. Ramana for instance could never be provoked and never called people names if they refuted his views (against some other Gurus Who used Rascal and Fool as their Signature)

Proof 2: Ramana's Body had cancer and he never made anything of it. He remained in the same blissful state and when he departed, a flash of light was seen on Arunachala. This against some Guru Proclaiming that he was poisoned and his devotees themselves had done it.

Proof 3: Ramana has proved that he was not limited to the body and was able to meet his people at different places on earth, when he was physically at Arunachala. This against a practice that never gave even it's own propagator peace. If you need further proof, send me your email address.. I will send you loads of material on Room conversations...

Proof 4: Ramana Never preached using a set of books as crutches. His teaching was through transmitting experiences directly. Naturally what you experience is more real than what you read. So ramana never needed to come and tell you.. Bhagavan uvacha.....Devi Uvacha.....If you choose to disbelieve what others say it is fine... No problem... But the same applies to others even when you quote a purana....

Disclaimer : I am not a devotee of Ramana, but I admire his spiritual genius.

and finally I had never asked you for Vedic evicence. I am not interested in blindly believing the experiences of unknown people. What I believe is what I experience.

 

 

PURPORT

 

In these two verses the Supreme Lord gives a chance to the modern philosopher, for here it is clear that the Supreme is different from the individual soul. Arjuna, after hearing the essential four verses of Bhagavad Gita in this chapter, became completely free from all doubts and accepted KRSNa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

He at once boldly declares, "You are paraM brahma,

the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And previously KRSNa stated that He is the originator of everything and everyone. Every demigod and every human being is dependent on Him. Men and demigods, out of ignorance, think that they are absolute and independent of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That ignorance is removed perfectly by the discharge of devotional service.

 

 

 

Ok I learnt a Sloka when i was In school

Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu, Guru Devo Maheshwaraha

Guru Sakshat "PARAM BRAHMA" Taismai Sree Gurave Namaha.

Which was Boldly decalared to me by my sanskrit teacher. So as per your interpretation i conclude that Guru is the Param brahma....the Source of all, the supreme God head.

Might Sound stupid to a dwaitin, but makes perfect sense to an advaitin.

P.S. You say,He(Sri Krsna) is of God.I would like to point out that Sri Shankaracharya has forbidden his disciples to call nirguna brahm as even 'brahm'.He has no name and no form.Imagine trying to 'meditate' on this wondrous entity without any name,form and quality.

 

All is wonderful in discussing how we all are God.But the car never has,never is and never will be going any further than this (into practically realising such a fantastic 'truth'.)

Have you heard of stilling the mind and being awash with waves of bliss??? That is called Samadhi, and total absorption is called Nirvikalpa Samadhi.. Not only has it been done. there are many Yogis and Siddhas who have accomplished it and some have chosen to drop their bodies and merge with the infinite current. "They have got the realization of oneness". Suggest you read the life history of Ramakrishana, Ramana Maharishi, Yogananda to get a view.

No boss.

 

 

Thus their urgent need to worship Ganapati,Shankara,Devi,etc. thinking them to be manifestations of brahm.These misled people think that Indra can give mercy and eliminate maya.

There are those retarded cases also,who think that,"I will overcome Maya on my own.Just watch."

 

 

And I suppose You, by praying to Krsna are in Vaikunta /Krsna Loka already!!! and are free from Maya??? Does not look like. You are unable to even tolerate a different point of view and resort to calling people retards, just because they hold a different view / do not to your ISCKON views.

"We are watching" and suspect that your path is not one of peace, a method (Krsna chanting) that cannot induce tolerance of others views and propagate compassion and love seems to be not worth a try.

Ghostface, There are 'vedantists' here who state that THEY do not accept Brahma-samhita nor the puranas etc --so the discussion requires some savvy-ness to change their hearts.

Proselitization is never a good Idea.... Intelligent people choose a path because their experience says so not because some scripture says so. Each person has the right to express his views, but it should not be to the point of "my view better than yours". That creates friction and nobody gains. I have nothing against a personal God, I too have immense love for my ishta devata.. But if someone chooses the impersonal over the personal, it is their choice.

In my opinion, as a limited human being one cannot fanthom the whole truth... So we try to substantiate using scriptures, experiences etc, but ultimately, there are as many theories as there are people. To a shaiva the vaishnava texts don’t make sense, to the vaishnava, the shaiva texts don’t make sense, to a muslim, the Vedas don’t makes sense, to a Christian, the Koran does not make sense. To each his own. As Buddha said " Apa Devo Bhava".

If there was only one version of the truth, then why so many religions, why so many sects, why so many philosophies? Why atheism? The very fact that existence allows individual freedom itself is evidence that one shirt will not fit all.....Apa Devo Bhava.....

Krishna is responsible for the death of everyone. The people/demons he kills attain perfection.

 

Please substantiate how the Puranas are illogical, I'm interested.

 

I can't help feeling your constant attacks, which is what you have done saying 'stupid, fool' etc, put you into the fanatic category somewhat. I think you're attached to your impersonal conception to the point of craziness. Maybe in a similar way to the crazy Christians I'm sure you've come across. Maybe it's ego, wanting everyone else to be stupid compared to you? At any rate, I hope you aren't really like this in real life. People behave differently on the internet.

Before I sign off... Just tempted to address your interest

Vishnu Purana Book 3, Chapter 12

AURVA continued.--"Let a respectable householder ever venerate the gods, kine, Brahmans, saints, aged persons, and holy teachers. Let him observe the two daily Sandhyás, and offer oblations to fire. Let him dress in untorn garments, use delicate herbs and flowers, wear emeralds and other precious stones, keep his hair smooth and neat, scent his person with agreeable perfumes, and always go handsomely attired, decorated with garlands of white flowers ( Sure, Flowers!!!!) . Let him never appropriate another's property, nor address him with the least unkindness. Let him always speak amiably and with truth, and never make public another's faults. Let him not desire another's prosperity, nor seek his enmity. Let him not mount upon a crazy vehicle, nor take shelter under the bank of a river (which may fall upon him). A wise man will not form a friendship nor walk in the same path with one who is disesteemed, who is a sinner or a drunkard, who has many enemies, or who is lousy, with a harlot or her gallant, with a pauper or a liar, with a prodigal, a slanderer, or a knave. Let not a man bathe against the strength of a rapid stream, nor enter a house on fire, nor climb to the top of a tree ( How does one drink Tender coconut, get mangoes ?) ; nor (in company) clean his teeth or blow his nose, nor gape without covering his mouth, nor clear his throat, nor cough, nor laugh loudly, nor emit wind with noise, nor bite his nails, nor cut grass, ( OMG Cutting grass is banned!! No more landscaping… I mean..... ever!!!) nor scratch the ground, nor put his beard into his mouth, nor crumble a clod of clay ( No Pottery Allowed !! Strictly) ; nor look upon the chief planetary bodies when he is unclean Let him not express disgust at a corpse, for the odour of a dead body is the produce of the moon ( I thought Microorganisms were involved !!!). Let a decent man ever avoid by night the place where four roads meet, the village tree ( ????) , the grove adjacent to the place where bodies are burnt, and a loose woman. Let him not pass across the shadow of a venerable person, of an image, of a deity, of a flag, of a heavenly luminary ( No Pradhakshina is possible during the day time!!!). Let him not travel alone through a forest, nor sleep by himself in an empty house ( What to do if nobody is at home?? Find a hotel). Let him keep remote from hair, bones, thorns, filth, remnants of offerings, ashes, chaff, and earth wet with water in which another has bathed. Let him not receive the protection of the unworthy, nor attach himself to the dishonest. Let him not approach a beast of prey; and let him not tarry long when he has risen from sleep. Let him not lie in bed when he is awake, nor encounter fatigue when it is time to rest. A prudent man will avoid, even at a distance, animals with tusks and horns; and he will shun exposure to frost, to wind, and to sunshine. (I did not know they had hermetic Air-conditioned rooms those days) A man must neither bathe, nor sleep, nor rinse his mouth whilst he is naked (Oops!! I am off to buy a suit to take bath) he must not wash his mouth, or perform any sacred rite, with his waistband unfastened: and he must not offer oblations to fire, nor sacrifice to the gods, nor wash his mouth, nor salute a Brahman, nor utter a prayer, with only one garment on. ( A minimum 2 piece is recommended. Seriously!!). Let him never associate with immoral persons: half an instant is the limit for the intercourse of the righteous with them. (Now THAT is being Specific!!) A wise man will never engage in a dispute with either his superiors or inferiors: controversy and marriage are to be permitted only between equals (Has anybody heard of a term called Equality?? I thought all people are equal in the eyes of God!! Apparently not as per this purana). Let not a prudent man enter into contention: let him avoid uprofitable enmity. A small loss may be endured; but he should shun the wealth that is acquired by hostility.

"When a man has bathed, he must not wipe his limbs with a towel nor with his hands, nor shake his hair, nor rinse his mouth before he has risen. ( may be we should air dry ourselves!!) Let him not (when sitting) put one foot over another, nor stretch forth his foot, in the presence of a superior, but sit with modesty in the posture called Vírásana (or on his knees). He must never pass round a temple upon his left hand, nor perform the ceremony of circumambulating any venerable object in the reverse direction. A decent man will not spit, nor eject any impurity, in front of the moon, fire, the sun, water, wind, or any respectable person (remember if you need to relieve your bladder and you are in the desert…… If you are on a ship in the ocean…...If you are on a mountain which is breezy….GOD SAVE YOU!!!) nor will he void urine standing, (Why do I feel this whole thing is Absurd??) nor upon the highway: he will never step over phlegm, ordure, urine, or blood; nor is the expectoration of the mucus of the throat allowable at the time of eating, offering sacrifices or oblations, or repeating prayers, or in the presence of a respectable person.

"Let not a man treat women with disrespect, nor let him put entire faith in them. Let him not deal impatiently with them, nor set them over matters of importance. (Any body heard of the term gender equality???) A man who is attentive to the duties of his station will not go forth from his house without saluting the chaplets, flowers, gems, clarified butter, and venerable persons in it (Saluting Ghee, flowers, gems!!!! Wow..). At proper seasons he will salute respectfully the places where four roads meet, when engaged in offering oblations with fire. Let him liberally relieve the virtuous who are poor, and reverence those who are learned in the Vedas. He who is a worshipper of the gods and sages, who gives cakes and water to the manes, and who exercises hospitality, obtains the highest regions after death. He who speaks wisely, moderately, and kindly, goes to those worlds which are the inexhaustible sources of happiness. He who is intelligent, modest, devout, and who reverences wisdom, his superiors, and the aged, goes to heaven.

"On the days called Parvas, on periods of impurity, upon unseasonable thunder, and the occurrence of eclipses or atmospheric portents, a wise man must desist from the study of the Vedas. The pious man who suppresses anger and envy, who is benevolent to all, and allays the fears of others, secures, as the least of his rewards, enjoyment in Swarga. A man should carry an umbrella, as a defence against sun and rain; he should bear a staff when he goes by night, (I use a car!!! Simpler and safer) or through a wood; and he should walk in shoes, if he desires to keep his body from harm. As he goes along he should not look up, nor about him, nor afar off, (Hardly a recipe for safety!!) but keep his eyes upon the ground to the extent of a couple of yards.

That's It folks.....

Arrivederci'-------

I'm simply asking him for some basis. Opinions are nothing without justification.

And The Justifications you provide are flimsy.. They are not traceable in a foolproof manner. You have also been handed these from your guru and he from his guru and trust they are true because you trust your guru...

If You are justified in doing that so is this gentleman.

Krishna is responsible for the death of everyone. The people/demons he kills attain perfection.

 

Please substantiate how the Puranas are illogical, I'm interested.

 

I can't help feeling your constant attacks, which is what you have done saying 'stupid, fool' etc, put you into the fanatic category somewhat. I think you're attached to your impersonal conception to the point of craziness. Maybe in a similar way to the crazy Christians I'm sure you've come across. Maybe it's ego, wanting everyone else to be stupid compared to you? At any rate, I hope you aren't really like this in real life. People behave differently on the internet.

Yeah Right!! If Krishna Kills it is for Perfection, if some others deities kill it is Tamasic.

Keep your stuff going......

and by the way if you think saying "foolish and stupid" are being fanatical, you will find a lot of that in your literature themselves. I request you to look a little harder at the recorded talks and works of Prabhupada.

Crazy christians??? How Bigoted !! They just claim the superiority of Christ / Mary / God just like you claim Krishna.. Just the name differs. And by the way who told you I am an impersonalist?

About Ego... I am not naive to believe that I am a "Dasa". I know I have imperfections that make me human. The trouble is you while you people can dish it out to others, when it comes to taking criticism, your group seems to fare poorly.

in any case I do not want to continue this arguement beyond some point and would like to sign off.

Ultimately there are a number of conclusions a person can come to from the scriptures, but I don't see anything to suggest Ganesha as being the supreme lord.

 

If this man can explain his posiition, what it is based on, and answer why there are so many verses contrary to his position, I will accept it as legitimate, even if i don't agree with it. He has done none of these, therefore I conclude it is concoction/trolling.

 

It is, as you say, down to our subjective experiences. We cannot know for certain by empirical knowledge what is truth and what isn't, and I think that is divine arrangement. However, to a small degree we can rule out some possiblities. It is in this spirit that I questioned his statement.

 

Om Purnam Adah Purnam Idam

Purnat Purnam Udacyate

Purnasya Purnam Adayah

Purnam Evavasisyate

Divine arrangement ???? Then why rule out possibilities, do what you think is right and let the other gentleman who thinks Ganesha is supreme go on his way...

and assume that too is a "Divine Arrangement"

The puranas make perfect sense to those who know them properly. There is no scripture that says Ganesha is the supreme.

 

If you don't accept the Vedic literatures how can you ascribe yourself to the religion, deities and practises that coem from them? It's sillyness. The Vedas are the work of Vyasadeva.

 

I recognise the validity of all religious experience, but where does the idea that Ganesha is the supreme lord come from? It's concoction. I'm not devalueing his religious experience, I'm questioning the conclusions he came to as a result of it.

 

Maybe Ganesha has visited this man and told him to beleive that, for some higher purpose maybe. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe he's just trolling.

 

There is nothing tamasic about the killing of the demons. You're continually making things up. I don't really understand this part of your post. Your post is confusing.

 

Om Ganeshaya Namah

My post will be confusing to a book worm. And who said that I need to to ISKCON version of truth to say what I say? I dont care about your version of truth. I dont even want to limit myself to the sanathana dharma. I believe in accepting all experiences that existence throws at me and float with it.

Truth as far as I am concerned is experiential. The God I have experienced has not come out from a book or even a set of books. It is the bliss you are within, without and everywhere.

If at all you meant what you said about "Ganesha telling this man for a higher purpose", then who are you to refute it ??? Are you greater than Ganesha??

Demons??? Krishna killed all and sundry... Remember the Mahabharatha war, Krishna was the root cause for the destruction of the entire Kaurava clan including innocent soldiers. He advised Arjuna to kill. Was Bhishma a Demon???

And even looking at the so called demons, if you refer to your own puranas, they were dwarapalakas of Mahavishnu and incarnated because of a curse. In any case I think Puranas were told to help people relate to God and do not represent actually what happened. I am sure you or your Ilk will jump on me and ask for a proof!!! The Only proof I have is that a lot of your puranas are illogical. Absurd. Only a fanatic / fool will believe them blindly. If you choose to belong to this category, then please feel free.

Hare Krsna

Radhe Krishna,

 

To me it is not material as to whether lord Rama worshipped Lord Shiva or Lord shiva worshipped Lord Rama. Whom u r worshipping.

 

I am worshipping Lord Krishna and that is the beginning and that is the end. These type of controversial issues and engaging urself in those - i am sorry if i am wrong - deviates ur concentration of ur bhakthi. These, i humbly feel would do no good either for a shiva bhaktha or for a rama bhaktha.

 

Radhe krishna

Wow--- a sensble Quote at last!!!!

Everything, but this, is a valid statement. How can this be stupid? Same thing goes with the Shaivites and Shaktis. All the puranas and upanishads end up saying the same thing, that is ParaBrahman delights in the pleasure of the devotee. Krsna worships Shiva, Shiva worships Krsna. How is this stupid? It makes perfect sense in a dynamic, never ending, pleasing realm of satisfaction.

The stupidity is in differentiating with name and form and saying this god is superior to that, on which this arguement is based.

I agree with you that this divine leela is what creates experiences in which the parabrahman rejoices.

Being the only guy in a Whole Universe is tough otherwise.

The puranas were the experiences of someone who chose to pass them on. In fact everything revolves around what we know and what we choose to perceive.

If Ganesha being supreme needs to be proved through some puranic pramaana.. then the puranas being true also need to be proved. It is only fair. After all if you choose to keep asking for proofs, there is no answer finally. You will have to say that I heard it from my guru, he heard it from his guru etc.etc. It finally boils down to experience.

But the fact that each person seems to have different set of experiences itself removes all possibility of one truth and many untruths. Unless you truly believe that you are the enlightened ones and all other philosophies are phony. If that is how you think, then it borders on fanaticism and may <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> save you. The choice is finally ours. Either we have an open mind and listen to existence, or keep it closed and blindly believe a set of books.

The Actual problem is that you choose to believe one person's set of experiences but choose to reject another, just because it does not fit into your idea of right and wrong which is a sure shot way of limiting your range of experiences.

Finally this whole "My God better than your God" thing is absurd. As it is, there are a million sects and religions that are bickering and fighting with one another. a lot of blood has already been shed on this thing.

In <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place> it was the shaivite vaishnavite thingy (which you people are successfully keeping alive), in the middle east, pagans versus muslims, then christian vs muslims, hindus versus christians, muslims versus hindus. although I am a seeker, i find religion is the cause for many of the world's ills.

Where as, if each was to his own, like the buddha said "Apa Devo Bhava" things would have been a lot simpler.

Even if we do consider puranas, they are at logger heads with one another. If it is believed that <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> worshipped a shiva linga...Immediately some krishna premi will say will say that God worships his devotee. Actually krshna is supreme.. Dont you see the stupidity of it all??

Talking about satvic and tamasic, Dont you see that it is vishnu who did most of the killing actually, the "tamasic activity" right from ravana to kamsa et all???? then where is satvic and where is rajasic and tamasic. All three need to exist if the earth needs to function. The Electron (rajasic) needs to go around the proton/ neutron (satvic) and finally collapse back into pure energy/matter (tamasic).

If this balance is lost then there cannot be the play of the divine.

I am sure that this post too will be deleted and my denied access as the moderator seems to be against anything that he and this ISKCON group believes. I really dont care. You people can continue scratching each other backs. I am out a here...................