smaranam

i feel ike whats the point to being born to this world............alot of people would say the point of being born of this world is to become god counsiese. but everything is just so repetative u wake up u go to work everyday u come home do it all over again, then u get married and have a bunch of kids then u die of old age. u work ur whole life so all u could do is retire and die. what the point of all this, its repetative boring abd not worth it at all. whatsd the point?

The right question would be WHY are we born into this world.

The answer is : to fulfill the vAsanA (desires), latent, dormant, active, that a transmigrating jIva holds.

To roll out the results of past karma. Unfortunately, in the process, living beings acrue more karma and develop new vAsanA. This cycle has to stop and this happens when one fortunately meets a saint (santa), satpurush, sadguru or svayam bhagvAn, or writings and words of either, with satsanga.

om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~

 

You can`t see any contradiction between Advaita and Dvaita maybe because LOVE is always present in your heart as your guide. Love rejoices in the truth not evil. Since these teachings are good because they are truthful not bad then you see them as one. Again there`s no contradiction here since you know they are simultaneously different( One is good while the other is better).

Thank You Melvin, for your thoughtful kind and guiding words. They are certainly helpful, 4 years later as well  

om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~

Dear devotees,

 

Pamho. Agtsp!

 

I'm trying to figure out whether Tukarama (the 16th century devotee from Maharasthra) was a personalist or impersonalist. I did a Vedabase search and Srila Prabhupada has spoken highly of him, although infrequently. SP even said that Tukarama was a disciple of Lord Caitanya. But some of Tukarama's abhangas have a tinge of impersonalism and since I can't read Marathi, I can't tell if they have been translated correctly or are translated by someone with a motive. Also, what about Namdev? Was he an impersonalist?

 

I have a great affection for Lord Vittala and it would practically kill me to find out that his most famous devotees are indeed impersonalists!

 

Thanks in advance. Hare Krsna!

Hare KRshNa

You are right,

What about this abhanga :

ANu reNuyA thhokadA

TukA AkAshA evadhA

Smaller than the atom, TukA is as vast as the sky

Further he goes: I have left this illusion of form (bhramAchA AkAr).

I suppose when the uttam adhikAri reaches that stage , it is unavoidable.

He claimed Namdev was his Guru. Namdev, although initially a bhakta of Vitthal in PandharpUr, was influenced by DnyAneshwar Maharaj (of NAth Sampraday = bhakti + yoga + jnana) . On pilgrimage, his associates teased him to be "half-baked" transcendentalist becs he had not realized God everywhere. So he went back to Pandharpur and complained to Vitthal. VithobA said, " but You do not know Me yet" and Namdev failed the test when Lord passed by as an ordinary paThAN on a horse. So he had to take initiation per Lord's request. That Guru was, to his shock, sleeping with feet on the Deity/ShivLinga (not sure). Namdev woke him and shouted. The guru said "Dear, find one spot where there is no God and put my feet there" Wherever Namdev tried, the Shivling / Deity sprang up. So Namdev surrendered to this Guru and is also recorded in Guru Granth Sahib.

That being said, saints like Tukaram Namdev and Kabir are not the voidist impersonalists like Advaita followers of today or Shankaracharya school. They want to grab the oneness. Here, the oneness came of its accord. Yet, after becoming "AkAshA evadhA" - vast like the sky, they kept saying "chant the holy names"

Of course i do not think they went to Golok VrundAvan to become gopas, gopis, sakhis or manjaris.

Jai Shri KrushNa

Mmm i don't feel like sharing them now... may be some day i may be in the mood to do just that

In any case, personal heart diary is currently under lock and key

Sorry to disappoint you - but read the BhAgvatam, and after that Chaitanya Charitramrut, after that Bruhad BhAgvatAmrut, and other works of VaishNav Acharyas.

* Read poems . bhajans by Bhakti Vinod ThAkur

---

MhAro ri Giridhar GopAl

Govind MAdhav MurliManohar ShyAmSundar

KamalNayan Shankha Chakra GadAdhar

Hari Mukund MurAri

can't and won't live without You

Chitta hAri VaMshi dhAri ~

praNAm

Namaste

Obviously, Lord NArAyaN blessed you, see how particular and diligent He is. Your prayer was sincere, so he blessed you. Now don't start jumping it will affect ego - although i think you are keeping it in good control.

Introversion is a good sign. The idea is to minimize prajalpa / jalpa = unnecessary talk. I say always - HarinAm IS Silence.

I personally prefer silent japa to aloud - big difference. It is also said in shastra : Silent manan and jap is the higher form, but beginners are adviced loud jap so as to use the voice as a vehicle to concentrate.

Keep going

Jai Shri KrushNa ~

praNAm

Thank You.

Words ARE enough , to get a 'glimpse' of this Divine Leela, the blessings of Lord Shiva and Ma PArvati. Yes, that's Shiv murti in the jyoti for sure.

I love Krshna , but Lord Shiva has touched my heart too, primarily a result of Their connection and relation with each other.

Jai Gopeshwar Mahadev

Om namah Shivaya

Om namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

Sri KRshna Govinda Hare Murare

He NAth NArAyana VAsudeva ~

no i understood very well explained but i still have doubts.

for even narad puran talks about advaita.

And the gita keeps on talking about the self

Dvaita and advaita are different aspects and perspectives of the same Absolute Truth acc. to me, who is a Person by the way. You know Who

Why not just surrender and hand our "self" over to Him, the most beautiful , generous, kind, and the most natkhat ONE ? Then all these qns will not arise.

We are His servants , beloved associates. Story ends.

He waits for us to shed our material vices, ego, attachments, and finally return to Him , but stays with us despite all these.

Can you please be specific while saying , "Gita keeps talking about the self" ?

Or give some example verses , where your doubts lie , then the Gurus here might clear them before the forum closes.

BG 10.10: To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.

BG 10.11: To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.

All the best. May Krshna bless you.

Thanks

Om namah Shivaya

WOW, Primate and Bhaktajan, you have both put it very well. Thank You.

I find most of your analysis and anologies (leave aside "pratishtha", basis for a moment) , very interesting and helpful. You are most certainly not a Primate. What an ironical name !

Thank You, Janhava Nitai Prabhu, for these forums. It is your generosity that gave me valuable association of all these wonderful souls including you, who have been my Gurus. I have learnt a lot and had a wonderful short time here.

Hope to read more nectar on your sites and wish you all the best with the Children's Programs, Akshay Patra and any projects.

Please bless me so the Lord will stay in my heart always.

Smaranam

Have fun, you all. The clock is ticking and time cannot be reversed. Make best use of the time you have, and that means doing something you like - today/now. Do not wait for fun to begin in some afterlife.

 

Twenty years from now, you will regret all the things you did not do, than the things you did do - Mark Twain

 

Cheers

The 2 things i will regret 20 yrs from now -

1. Not having spent all those moments with the Lord (technically this is nothing to regret about, just look ahead in time, to the infinite kind Lord)

2. Not having performed my duties very well, if i don't that is, due to which others may have suffered - while i deserve it anyway.

So , i will add some warning to your good advice -

If anyone wants to have all the illusiory temporary fun of this world, please remember to distinguish it from the real bliss of God's company. It surpasses everything , and you will not miss ANY worldly thing you did not do - including visiting beautiful places on earth - if you did not take the Lord with you on that vacation.

Thank You , Kaisersose ji , for your valuable association.

Smaranam

Regardless of what we believe. I still love you. ...

 

. To all who have spent their time with me ( theist, jndas, sant, primate, chandu, sambya, ranjetmoore, bhaktajan, gHari, ancientmariner, stonehearted, smiley, kaisersose, beggar, sonic yogi, ksamha, smaranam, hindustani, pandora, gokulkr, krsna, etc.) thank you so much!

It was nice knowing you, Melvin. Thanks to all the wonderful souls, my Gurus here. I can see how it must be for those of you who were here for a decade. You must be like a family already.

Smaranam

"retain our individuality at any subsequent liberated state of being."

 

---without a 'relationship' to a transcendent Absolute ENTITY [God's Personage] . . . what constitues 'individuality'?

 

What makes one individual individual, except in contrast to other Persons?

 

Does Personal preference(s) constitute an individual? Does samsara steal-away our preference(s) or do our Personal preference(s) change birth-after-birth . . . since, amidst samsara, we are always self-ascribing temporary conditioned 'likes & dis-likes' as the definition of one's own individuality?

 

What makes for ABSOLUTE individuality?

Not sure if that was rhetoric or real qns to stimulate discussion .....

Could the answer be Thought ? The individual stays unique by personal thought. Thought creates experience - given by the Lord. Even after liberation the soul can choose to have thought - on the spiritual plane. So likes and dislikes can continue on a much higher level.

Why does Tungavidya wear white and Champaklata red ? Is this in relation to their rasa with Krshna, or Radha, or is it strictly personal preference ? Can the 2 things be seperated ? I do not know. The colors do represent some aspect of the Divine, i believe - like white for vidya .

Thought, sometimes followed by belief and choice, is the phenomenon that makes an individual , individual. Krshna (God) reciprocates according to this phenomenon, although He already knows what it will be.

Desire to get engrossed in Brahman without any active interaction or service to the Supreme Lord, is also individual choice . Just that all Sayujjas probably look the same - or similar. That's their choice. It only means they are a part of the Supreme, that just wants to "be".

Quote : "Do our personal preferences change birth after birth ?"'

They should. The kind of actions , attitudes , perspectives, Sadhana, chosen or picked up from surroundings , get embossed on the jiva as 'samskAr'. The 'samskAr' gets carried over into the next life , so samskAras create new preferences as their side effect.

As the 3 modes of material nature fluctuate, so will the preferences.

Its funny to read,

Does personal God look like Indian?, Is there a Hindu personal God, Christian God etc etc.,

 

If He takes form in India, He looks Indian, if He takes form in Israel, then He looks middle eastern, If He ever takes form in United states, then He might appear any color, may be hispanic, or african american, or white or Indian or mediteranean or chinese.

 

If you see the idols of Buddha made in China, Budda looks like chinese, while he was actually born in the Indian sub continent part..

 

If you see pictures of Krishna painted by Hare Krishna, Krishna has blue eyes, while in reality He was different.

 

This is hard to explain, and the only explanation I can think of is, STOP speculating and contemplating..

If one goes on a darshan tour of Radha Krishna temples world-wide, Radha in middle east look middle eastern, Radha from Toronto looks French, from Maharashtra , Banglore, Mayapur, Florida, Houston, South Africa - they look like the people from those ethnic places. None of them look exactly like Radha-Shyamsunder in Vrindavan.

Why is that ? The first thing that occured to me, is that this is done on purpose, so that people of each location can warm up to the deities as human beings made in the Deities' image. So they feel a sense of belonging.

On the other hand , its very important to preserve the roots , and know what historical Buddha looked like although His images may look Chinese, for instance.

-------

When its a genuine personal experience of God, however, its totally upto Him whether to make it fit into the jiva's prior ideas about Him, or to completely knock the ideas off.

Sarvetra sukhi na santu

sarve santu niramaya

sarve bhadrani pashyantu

ma kashchit dukha mapnayat

Om shanti shanti shantih

O Lord, May all be happy

May all be free from ailments

May we see what is auspicious

May no one be subject to miseries

May there be a Peace! Peace! Peace! Everywhere.

Smaranam,

 

With all due respect, never imagine that you know someone else's religion better than they do. That is plain arrogance and most Hare Krishnas on this forum are afflicted by this syndrome.

 

You really do not want to be one of them.

 

Cheers

Thanks for your input.

I did not claim to know the religion or know anything, if you go thru' my posts.

It was just an expression of hope, faith and some problem solving.

Which does not have to continue here at all.

This is what some Muslim Authorities have to say about the original intent and context of Jihad : kill

Another Good Place - URL : kill

“There is a declaration of immunity from Allah and His Messenger to those of the pagans with whom you have contracted mutual alliances. Go then, for four months, to and fro throughout the land. But know that you cannot frustrate Allah that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.” [surah al-Tawbah: 1-2]


“Except for those pagans with whom you have entered into a covenant and who then do not break their covenant at all nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill your engagements with them until the end of their term, for Allah loves the righteous.” [surah al-Tawbah: 4]

We have demonstrated that it is a principle in Islam that there is no compulsion in religion and we have discussed the objectives of jihad. Now, we shall turn our attentions to some texts that are often misunderstood.



One of these is the verse:

“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them and beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war). But if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them, for Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful.” [surah al-Tawbah: 5]

The people being referred to by this verse are the pagan Arabs who had been waging war against the Prophet (peace be upon him) and who had broken their covenant and treaties with him. This verse is not speaking about the other pagan Arabs who did not break their treaties and take up arms against the Muslims. It is also most definitely not speaking about the Jews or Christians, or, for that matter, the pagans who were living outside of Arabia.

The answer is No.They read the Quran's interpretation give in Tafsirs and hadiths which contain muhammad's actions and his interpretations of quranic verses.It seems nobody suggested to them they should not take Muhammad's word at face value.

Go through the tafsir at Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Home

and here is the tafsir page for Jihad

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - Shirk is worse than Killing

 

It says Shirk is worse than killing.Shirk is associating partners with Allah,in plain english it means worshipping anybody besides Allah.Go through the verses .

Thanks for the links , Chanduji. I shall look into them more.

This is what strikes out at first glance :

1. Shirk being worse than killing is for Allah to judge, not for people to take action i.e. to kill the 'Shirkers', starting with deciding who is commiting Shirk in the first place.

2. This page :

The Command to fight Those Who fight Muslims and killing Them wherever They are found

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - The Command to fight Those Who fight Muslims and killing Them wherever They are found

And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you,)

Abu Al-`Aliyah said, "This was the first Ayah about fighting that was revealed in Al-Madinah. Ever since it was revealed, Allah's Messenger used to fight only those who fought him and avoid non-combatants. Later, Surat Bara'ah (chapter 9 in the Qur'an) was revealed.'' `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said similarly, then he said that this was later abrogated by the Ayah:

(then kill them wherever you find them) (9:5).

However, this statement is not plausible, because Allah's statement:

...those who fight you) applies only to fighting the enemies who are engaged in fighting Islam and its people. So the Ayah means, `Fight those who fight you', just as Allah said (in another Ayah):

(And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.) meaning, `Your energy should be spent on fighting them, just as their energy is spent on fighting you, and on expelling them from the areas from which they have expelled you, as a law of equality in punishment.'

(but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.)

This Ayah means, `Fight for the sake of Allah and do not be transgressors,' such as, by committing prohibitions. Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah), "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit.''

-----------

HOW DOES THE ABOVE EXPLAIN WHY AURANGZEB AND MUGHULS RAIDED BHARAT ?

Doesn't the Quran forbid fighting for land, power and fame ? and only in Allah's name ?

-----------

At first glance it tells me that modern terrorism is mixed with political and social greed for power, recruiting young, potential Muslim fanatics from behind the scenes.

---

I APOLOGIZE TO FORUM READERS AND ADMINISTRATORS FOR ADDING ALL THIS DIVERGENCE FROM HINDU PHILOSOPHIES. Please delete if it is inappropriate.

1. They do not like Hindu's way of worship. So ?

Due to perceived injustice , should people go around harming civilians, because Krishna says in the Gita "Arjuna, pick up your arms and fight" ? And claim on top of that that its because they disagree with others' worship?

2. I do know that Sufism is not mainstream. That doesn't mean Muslim Grihastas and those in Islamic Varnashram all agree with the viewpoint of terrorist organizations.

3. Why bring Srila Prabhupad into this ? This was my view long before knowing about him.

4. Whether these people are motivated by false ego, distorting and misusing the Koran words out of context, whether their cause is free of ego, whether their injustice is real or not, Allah alone knows. Allah alone knows whether they go to Allah-loka or pay a price for their Karma on earth.

5. Have these people ever wondered whether the Holy wars they are permitted to wage could be symbolic ?

----------

6. One of my Shiksha Gurus once said : Krshna reciprocates as we surrender. (BG 4.?) Hence there are 84 crore species on earth. Souls get bodies acc. to desires - to fly, swim, walk etc.

7. So we can easily say that ....

Krshna reciprocates as we surrender, in quality, quantity, intensity and variety.

This is why there are so many abodes in the spiritual sky - Golok, Vaikuntha , Dwarka, Ayodhya, Kailash .... as well as Kingdoms of Allah, YHWH, Jehovah.

Don't Christians and Muslims have karma and rebirth ?

MOTHER SAYS ....

a. To a peaceful, responsible child who makes intelligent decisions : "Vegetables give good vitamins and minerals. We should eat vegetables"

b. To a child having soft corner for junk food or who breaks boundaries "Eat up your vegetables or else you will not be able to walk, jump, think , grow tall"

No doubt, Hinduism is the mother religion. Vedic and Sanatan.

We are extremely fortunate to be born into, come across or adopt it.

We are previledged to know thru' Vedic knowledge ....

* that God leaves the fair and just law of Karma on auto-pilot , so He can do better things - like being a benevolent and loving personal companion, so we can experience His bliss, His sat-chit-anand nature.

*That He assigns the wrath, thunder-lightning, floods part to Indra, Varun , Agni so that He is free to disguise as the bangle seller and dress Radha's wrists with bangles right under her family's nose.

From onions to terror. Oh well...

I read terrorists proclaim "god is great" while going on a killing spree.The terrorists and their masterminds have god on their mind at least 5 times a day.The heads of these terrorist organizations are religious scholars and are deeply immersed in Bhakthi(of their variety)

.

I do not have a lot of knowledge at all, to talk to scholars like yourself, also don't have a lot of time to continue right now, nevertheless....

There is spirituality and there is religiosity, or wrong kind of religiosity.

"Their kind of bhakti" is not spirituality. They are disjoint from the Supersoul.

Not that ordinary material people, atheists, aspiring devotees are completely aligned with Him. But the terrorists are even further away from Him.

Rumi the Sufi Saint was aligned with Him.

Terrorists ? You know the answer.

May Hari bless you eternally Sant ji

We hate terrorists

 

We hate terror not terrorists. Terrorists are in total seperation from God and they need sympathy and education and bhakti. Its mostly a question of

"But who will bell the cat ?"

Our spiritual path: The Ganga that emerges from Krshna's Lotus Feet.

Its not a trickling stream or just an ordinary river. Its an ocean-like flood with its source as well as sink at the Lord's Lotus Feet.

Let us bathe in this Ganga , where Lakshmi and Saraswati send waterfalls of bliss and knowledge.

Why do you consider it fault-finding to point out how Christian dogma differs from Vedic principles?

It is not fault-finding to assume that the Bible and Koran say what most Christians and Muslims claim that they say.

It is not fault-finding to agree with Christians and Muslims that their faiths are unique and distinct.

Trying to view them through a Universalist lens is not logically valid. Please reference

the excellent article by By Dr. Frank Morales, Ph.D. (Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya):

 

www.dharmacentral.com/universalism.htm

That statement about others' scriptures was not directed at you personally, it was a very general statement. Just want to let you know. Sorry if i offended you.

What Indians are appearantly facing , is not the actual teachings of Jesus Christ or Islam which point to the Truth.

My only point was that as long as Hindus realize this, the younger generations can be protected thru' knowledge and discrimination.

Simply Ecstatic. Jagadguru Kripalu Maharaj is so inspiring - in presence(video) as well as preaching. Thank You for sharing this.

JKP, Barsana Dham

Radhe Radhe Radhe Barsane ki Radhe