Radhikakulakarni

Lets take our case. So we are infinite we are God, but only that now we are under Ego and see everything as dual.

[That's exactly what I mean].

 

Do you agree that you are under Ego right now? Is this your ego writing stuff or the Infinite writing stuff in this forum? Am I the Ego writing back at you? Is this like 2 Ego's (me and you) talking about us being Infinite?

I agree with that. All those who identify themselves as individuals possess ego.

As for your question, it is of course two egos(me and you) as we identify ourselves as separate individuals who are talking about us/One Infinite.

To Justin,

When I say that "Everything begins with duality and ends with nonduality" here is what I mean. Everything is always in the Infinite. When a part of the Infinite consciousness identifies itself as a body or a soul, that is the beginning or birth of a soul. From then on the ego within it makes it look as if it is separate from the Infinite. But this concept of dualism is only for the soul and never can a soul or a body or anything for that matter can be considered as separate from the Infinite. Hence this ego is the cause of the belief of dualism and when it's gone, everything is one. As long as we do not lose ego completely, all that we can comprehend appears dual.

Do you become the Infinite? or are you the Infinite itself?

 

Realize there is a huge difference between the 2 questions. You 'becoming' an Infinite is dual, but you being the Infinite is non-dual.

 

For example, if the rope has to become a serpent, it is 'becoming', but if the rope is already a serpent but in ignorance it does not 'become' the serpent. There is a difference in the way it is written or said.

 

How do you know that the Infinite does not have any form?

 

Does matter have any consciousness?

 

So the Supreme consciousness creates other conscious entities and matter and then merges it back to itself? From where does it create?

 

So the Supreme Consciousness divides itself into different souls who are ignorant?

1.The answer to your first question is "Everything begins with duality and ends with non-duality". Therefore, when a soul is formed as a part of Infinite consciousness, it is dual i.e. the part is not the same as the whole. But when it attains mukti, it ceases to identify itself as a soul and is perfectly tuned to the Supreme will and consciousness and is therefore the infinite.

2.If you can see, I have written that the Infinite does not have any particular form. This means that everything and anything is a part of the Infinite, even if it is formless or has a form. Be it anything: everybody, materials, plants, planets, cosmos, you, me, anybody and space between anything, all are a part of the Infinite.

3. As for matter, though it does not have a consciousness of its own(i.e it does not possess ego), the Supreme Consciousness pervades it.

Sorry, but I must disagree with Radhika's statement " it forsakes its thoughts and its ego and leaves the causal to merge with the Infinite." Or rather I must disagree only with the last part of the statement - "and leaves the causal to merge with the Infinite." Again, this is the classic monist stance, always wanting to "merge with the Infinite." For a Vaishnava, this is not our goal. This, to us, is tantamount to spiritual suicide. Again, I had to look at Gita for clarification and found it in 18:55:

"bhatya mam abhijanati

yavan yas casmi tattvatah

tato mam tattvato jnatva

visate tad-anantaram"

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupad's translation into English is:

" One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God." I think everyone here will agree with the translation of the first sentence, although some here may disagree with the translation of the 2nd sentence. I am not learned in Sanskrit to translate it any better, nor would I jump over the head of my Gurudev in an attempt to do so. But the purport here is very illuminating and following is the 2nd paragraph of it -

" One who is fully conversant with the Krishna science becomes eligible to enter into the spiritual kingdom, the abode of Krishna. Becoming Brahman does not mean that one loses his identity. Devotional service is there, and as long as devotional service exists, there must be God, the devotee, and the process of devotional service. Such knowledge is never vanquished, even after liberation. Liberation involves getting free from the concept of material life; in spiritual life the same distinction is there, the same individuality is there, but in pure Krishna consciousness. One should not misunderstand that the word "visate,enters into Me," supports the monist theory that one becomes homogenous with the impersonal Brahman. No.

"Visate" means that one can enter into the abode of the Supreme Lord in his individuality to engage in His association and render service unto Him. For instance, a green bird enters a green tree not to become one with the tree but to enjoy the fruits of the tree. Impersonalists generally give the example of a river flowing into the ocean and merging. This may be a source of happiness for the impersonalist, but the personalist keeps his personal individuality like an aquatic in the ocean. We find so many living entities within the ocean, if we go deep. Surface acquaintance with the ocean is not sufficient; one must have complete knowledge of the aquatics living in the ocean depths."

Regards, jeffster/AMdas

Whether a soul wants to merge with the Infinite or would rather like to stay in Vishnu Loka is left to it. But when your goal is to merge with the Infinite, it is possible. When the soul feels content in being with one of the aspects of the Infinite(Lord Vishnu being the Preserver), it is possible to attain it and stay in Vishnu Loka. But as long as you perceive Lord Vishnu as a form as described in the holy books, it is only the astral form of the infinite preserving capacity that you behold. But when you talk of Infinity, let me say it includes everyone and everything. All that we can possibly think of is a part of the Infinite.

I agree sephiroth. Radhika's definition of soul is very beautiful. A wonderful soul experience is pointed to by Radhika here.

 

This comment does not satisfy my soul though...sorry Radhika:). Once we have the soul development from our encounter with the harmonious environment...is it all over red rover...or is there a positive progressive reality that is ever-new? Love must be such, not just expanding in this universal form.

To Bija,

I will first explain what I mean by coming out of the encasements of soul.

As long as we identify with any body and possess an ego that this is me, we cannot become free. The soul is attached to the physical world with various intentions of material gain, name and fame. Once it is free

from all attachments, it becomes free from the hassles of the physical body. But still, as long as the soul has feelings of good, bad,emotions etc., it will still be in the astral body. (This means and explains that the various forms of gods and goddesses we speak of are all astral). Once the soul leaves all feelings and emotions, it has only thoughts i.e. it has a causal body only. In such a state the soul has powers to create objects and universes of its own. If it feels good of creating endless things, it remains in the causal body. But once it realizes that all this is like child's play, it forsakes its thoughts and its ego and leaves the causal to merge with the Infinite. As it has no ego, it does not distinguish itself as a soul and is

one with the Infinite which state is called mukti.

The path to achieve mukti is ever new but it is attained only after the soul has passed through these various stages.

Dear members,

I believe that the ego of being a soul is encased in three bodies, the physical, the astral and the causal. Once you are out of these, there is nothing that remains and you are one with the Infinite. The Infinite does not have any particular form. It is nothing but the consciousness that prevails in the entire universe. That is what we call God or Supreme Soul.

But once this is attained, there is no difference. The very nature of this Supreme Consciousness is that it has powers to create, maintain and destroy. It is a part of its nature and therefore it can again create many encasements within itself which mark the birth of new souls.

Radhika