zapak

Lord Narayana is supreme personality.No one equal to or greater than Lord Narayana.

 

Pranaam

If he is supreme then why he cheated.

If he is supreme then he is worshiped by both "rakshas and devata"

One head of Brahmaji was cut by Shiva and it shows the supermacy of Shiva

Please read Shiva Maha Puran on the Lingodhbhava Swami. There it is depicted Shiva as the great God. Both are correct. They are great Gods and to differentiate between them is pure absurdity. Vishnu as Ananthapadmanabha worships Shiva. If he has to keep his dearest devotee, why to keep a Shiva Linga on top of his head while lying down, stretching his hand to it with reverence?

sita-ram, radha-krishna, laxmi-vishnu but why "Shiv - Shakti"

because Shiv is supreme and his opposite power is Shakti

" vishnu is treated as a cheater by "rakshas" but not Shiva"

"Shiva drank the poison when everybody was afraid included vishnu"

"Shiva is worshiped by everybody no matter he is rakshas or devta"

"In Mahabharat muni vyas says to Ashwathama that both Nar (arjun) and Narayana (krishan) have power from Lord Shiva so they are invinsible only Shiva can defeat them" (this is asked by Ashwathama when his Brahmastra has no effect over them)

Deside yourself who is supreme.

" vishnu is treated as a cheater by "rakshas" but not Shiva"

"Shiva drank the poison when everybody was afraid included vishnu"

"Shiva is worshiped by everybody no matter he is rakshas or devta"

"In Mahabharat muni vyas says to Ashwathama that both Nar (arjun) and Narayana (krishan) have power from Lord Shiva so they are invinsible only Shiva can defeat them" (this is asked by Ashwathama when his Brahmastra has no effect over them)

Deside yourself who is supreme.

The thread starter is ignorant of etiquette, no doubt. He and I have our little differences (and confrontational mud-slinging). But that does not make Vaishnavism entirely wrong.

 

1) From the Vedas, it is to be gathered that Narayana is parabrahman. He existed alone, one without a second. No Rudra, No Brahma, etc.

 

2) It is mentioned clearly that Rudra is a Jivatma. Shathapatha Brahmana talks of how Rudra was born, how he asked Brahma to remove his past sins.

 

3) The name 'Rudra' was given to this jivatma by Brahma. Rudra means 'howler'. He was given this name because he cried when he was born.

 

4) Names like Shiva, Maheswara, Shambhu were given to Rudra by Brahma just to appease Rudra's ego. In reality, the name Shiva means 'auspicious'. Maheswara means 'Lord of the World'. Shambhu means 'Blissful'.

 

5) Therfore, such names like Shiva, etc. can also apply to Narayana. He alone is auspicious, blissful and the Lord of the World.

 

Now, the Vedas, are unified in one fact - Narayana is Brahman. But they also call Siva as Brahman, Indra as Brahman, Vayu as Brahman, Shambhu as Brahman, etc. However, it is clearly and coherently mentioned that Narayana is the highest and none other.

 

In other parts of the Vedas, these deities like Indra and Shiva are shown to be jivatmas. They have defects. So, they couldn't possibly be supreme.

 

Then how do we resolve contradictions? Simply take the common names. Siva is Brahman means 'Brahman is auspicious'. It does not pertain to Mahadeva. Shambhu is Brahman means 'Brahman is blissful'.

 

Indra has all the wealth (aiswarya) of Brahman. But he does not have other traits like intelligence, auspiciousness, etc. So, Narayana is Indra, Brahma, Siva means Narayana has aiswarya, intelligence and auspiciousness.

 

There is also another aspect. In the hymns praising devas, there is always a gentle reminder that the deity is praised only with Vishnu as the indweller.

 

Sri Rudram Chamakam, for instance, praises Rudra as supreme. But it also mentions in the Chamakam part that all prayers to Rudra go to the source of his power, the indwelling Lord Vishnu.

 

Saivites CANNOT get past the fact that Rudra has emphatically been declared to be a jivatma in Vedas. Therfore, they stick to Siva Purana. But Siva Purana is classified as Tamo guna. Hence, Saivites are defeated.

 

It is also shown in the Vedas that Brahma, Shiva, Indra are just posts. Any jivatma can attain this position by penance. Which means, if you or me do such a penance, we could become Rudra or Brahma in another Yuga by Sri Hari's grace. Once the current Brahma's life span ends, either he, along with the devas gets moksha (if Sri Hari is willing) or they will be subject to transmigration in Samsara again.

 

 

 

Correction. I cannot stand Tackleberry's disrespect for acharyas of other sampradayas just because they differ philosophically. It is unvaishnavite. I have nothing but respect for Sri Madhvacharya.

 

It is foolish to say that only Vaishnavas fight. The same goes for Saivism. You have Veera Shaivism, Kashmir Shaivism, Kapalika and Kalamukha, each squabbling with one another. The Smarta sect of advaitins also have divisions, each claiming to be the original parampara of Sri Sankaracharya.

 

----

 

Coming to the topic of this thread,

 

Rudra is not worshippable as a devotee of Vishnu even. If that was the case, one may also worship Indra, because despite Indra being completely materialistic, he always seeks the lotus feet of Vishnu for even material gains (making him a Vaishnava).

 

Rudra is a Rama bhakta. But there are many instances when he has rebelled against Sri Krishna, and considered himself to be supreme. Of course, he has realised his mistake, but that only makes him a vaishnava. There is a difference between Bhagavata and Vaishnava in the sense that even materialists may worship Vishnu and be called Vaishnavas. But Bhagavatas are people like our acharyas who have never stepped beyond the line of devotion and selfless service. Rudra is not a bhagavata.

 

Srimad Bhagavatam calls Rudra the greatest Vaishnava. True, but this may not pertain to even this yuga's Rudra. It is a well known fact that Puranas often pertain to events occuring in different chatur yugas. That is why there are some discrepancies with chronology. Hence, the Rudra hailed as a Vaishnava in Bhagavatam could have been a Rudra of a previous yuga as well.

 

I respect Rudra and other devas, but I won't worship them. Only Lakshmi Narayana and the acharyas are worshippable.

" vishnu is treated as a cheater by "rakshas" but not Shiva"

"Shiva drank the poison when everybody was afraid included vishnu"

"Shiva is worshiped by everybody no matter he is rakshas or devta"

"In Mahabharat muni vyas says to Ashwathama that both Nar (arjun) and Narayana (krishan) have power from Lord Shiva so they are invinsible only Shiva can defeat them" (this is asked by Ashwathama when his Brahmastra has no effect over them)

Deside yourself who is supreme.