no_back_stabber

Copied from Vaisnava Council with Vishoka prabhu's permission: Is the dream reasonable to believe? It's arrogant to immediately disbelieve something like Amoghalila's dream. That is what everyone in history has done to other people who has had something extraordinary happen to them, like some revelation from God, and they are immediately discredited and denounced, and often worse things happen, like being stoned or burned to death. It isn't Vaisnava to immediately say another Vaisnava is not credible when there isn't a reasonable amount of evidence to make such a claim. So, here are several points to consider. 1. Is it reasonable for Krishna and His pure devotees to come to disciples, in their dreams, and make communication? Ans- Yes, we find this very much in our Vaisnava history. It happens all the time. Srila Prabhupada said that such dreams are not to be taken as being ordinary. When the spiritual master comes to our dreams, that is our guru directly instructing us. Many of us has had Srila Prabhupada come to us in our dreams, and we get some instruction from the dream. 2. Is it reasonable for Srila Prabhupada to want to communicate with some disciple via a dream? Ans- Yes, because Srila Prabhupada knows that his movement is in such a mess, it's very reasonable to believe that he would do this, to try to set things straight. Yes, very reasonable. 3. Is it reasonable to believe that Srila Prabhupada would come to Amoghalila, via dreams, to say how he [srila Prabhupada] is very concerned about the guru issue? And give some instruction? Ans- Of course it's very reasonable that Srila Prabhupada would do this. Srila Prabhupada would not come to any devotees on the far left or far right for dream instruction. In other words, Srila Prabhupada wouldn't come to the radical gurus, nor the radical ritviks for such communication, because they would be harder to believe. It is very reasonable that Srila Prabhupada would come to a more neutral devotee, for such instructions. To say that Srila Prabhupada would not come to Amogalila's dream, is just envy that he didn't come to ours. Or, it's like saying that Amogalila is lying to us, which is a very wrong insinuation to make. 4. Is it reasonable that Srila Prabhupada would say what was said in the dream? Ans- Yes, Srila Prabhupada would say that the gurus are so-called, and that the temple presidents should recommend, like it was done in the past. That any guru who canvases for disciples isn't a guru. That they are monitor gurus. That he [srila Prabhupada] is not dead, and he can initiate, and who can stop him? He is there in his murti form, his murti form is non-different than him. We can talk to Srila Prabhupada in his murti form, and he hears us, and we could hear him in return, if we were pure enough. 5. Does the dream instructions follow guru, sastra and sadhu? Ans- Of course they do, if Srila Prabhupada says it, then it's kosher. The guru [srila Prabhupada as our guru] part of the guru-sastra-sadhu formula, is much more important than the other two. Why? Because we aren't qualified to understand sastra, we only understand sastra through Srila Prabhupada, and if he wants a ritvik system, then it automatically clears with guru-sastra-sadhu. Srila Prabhupada's order makes it clear with sastra and sadhu. When we go to sadhus, we really don't know if they are full sadhus. It's like going to Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers, and saying they are like sadhus in the formula of guru-sastra-sadhu. But Srila Prabhupada has said they are envious, so they aren't the proper sadhus. So who are the proper sadhus? Srila Prabhupada is the main fool-proof sadhu part of the formula. Same with Iskcon devotees who are not following Srila Prabhupada and his orders, they cannot be known as sadhus in this formula. They will say that Srila Prabhupada's ritvik system is heretical. What kind of sadhu is that? 6. Is it reasonable that ritviks are 90% right? Ans- Ritviks should be happy that Srila Prabhupada says they are right even 90%, but they complain about 10% being wrong. Well, the way that ritviks fight with each other like cats and dogs, makes it reasonable that they are 10% off, so this isn't a very big deal. Srila Prabhupada wants us to follow the gbc, but not a corrupt gbc of course, but the principle of following gbc is there. So the goal is to follow Srila Prabhupada and hope the gbc also follows, and if they don't, then we go ahead with Srila Prabhupada's orders and try to rectify the gbc also. Practically all of the contents of the dream are very reasonable, and there are no reasons to immediately disbelieve it. Ys visoka dasa

Prabhu is it true what Bhrahma dasa says about you?: It should be noted by readers that I have been told that Amoghalila dasa considers himself a "channeler" and claims to communicate with the dear departed. In one instance he claimed to have channeled and talked to the spirit of the wife of a devotee friend of mine. My friend just varified this by email. So buyer beware,,,,,,>>> Why didn't Brahma just ask me instead of saying "I have been told that Amoghalila dasa considers himself a 'channeler' "? No, I do not consider myself a "channeler." There was, however, a similar indirect accusation made some years ago when I responded according to sastra to an article in BTG Suhotra Swami had written about channeling. My letter was printed (though with a significant error in it), and then Suhotra wrote a nasty and non-scriptural reply. However, BTG refused to print my response to that reply. It is clear, though, that I am very different from the channelers referred to in that article, and that what I am doing is quite different than what they do. As I recall, those channelers, at least some of them, would go into some sort of unconscious state, and according to Suhotra Maharaja they were promoting mayavada philosophy, were not following regulative principles, (they would smoke, drink, gamble, etc., and of course eat meat, and especially, Suhotra stressed, they would have various illicit sexual desires or relations), etc. They were channeling what Suhotra called "hungry ghosts," who themselves seemed to be anxious for some kind of gross or subtle sense gratification. On the other hand, I am perfectly conscious while I am having these "conversations," and fervent prayer, purity and following sastra are the basis of my efforts to hear correctly the messages being given by Supersoul (or Srila Prabhupada, or other exalted devotional personalities--not at all "hungry ghosts"!). It is common knowledge that I attend mangal arti and chant at least sixteen rounds every day, distribute Srila Prabhupada's books (at least 2000 per month is my quota), and have followed all the regulative priniciples very strictly ever since I became a devotee in 1971. The only exception to this is that (like almost all ISKCON devotees), I have sometimes not been able to follow the very high standard of sexual morality Srila Prabhupada inculcated, where "no illicit sex" means not only no sex outside of marriage, but also no sex, even in marriage, except once a month for procreation. As I understand it, very few Western devotees, including sannyasis, have been able to strictly follow this high standard of absolutely no kind of sexual activity other than for procreation within marriage. However, since I became a devotee I have followed very strictly the principle of no sex outside of marriage, not even kissing or sexually touching anyone except my wife, and I am well known for (and have even been criticized for) not even talking to women except as required for Krsna's service. I am saying all this just to be honest, and to establish clearly that I am very different from the channelers Suhotra Swami was describing in that BTG article (the only thing about channeling I have ever read). I do recall--on only one occasion--having a conversation with the departed wife of a devotee, namely Tribhuvanesvari devi dasi, who was an extremely exalted Vaisnavi and, in my opinion, went back to Godhead when she left her body in a very Krsna conscious atmosphere. Many sincere and serious devotees, including Srila Prabhupada himself, have had such conversations with departed Vaisnavas, but this is very different than the impure "channeling" that goes on so frequently in new age groups like Suhotra Maharaja was describing. I hope this clarifies everything. May this meet you in the best of health and Krsna consciousness. Your servant, Amoghalila das